Hunting with a bow during muzzleloader season

[Curly]

The public comment period deadline is a joke.  I don't see why they have a public comment deadline.  If a letter to the commission is read by them anytime prior to the time of them voting, and that letter changes their minds, what difference does it make if the letter was received after the deadline?  I say that anyone that feels strongly about an issue should send a letter to the commission whether or not the deadline has passed for the official public comment period.

I sent a letter before on an issue and they acknowledged that it was after the public comment period but they did say they would read it anyway.  Of course they had already made up their minds (but I think they had already made them up prior to the public even being made aware of the issue) and my letter did no good anyway IMO.

I think that if you miss the deadline, the only thing is that your comments won't be added to anything official, but if you can make a good enough case, you may be able to change a commisioner or two's mind..   

[bobcat]

What i find confusing is that you have the nerve to backhand me for being proactive on an issue that concerns ML. I reread all the posts and you didnt bother to mention a deadline until the middle of page 5.

I didn't mention a deadline because this thread wasn't about protesting the change. I think the problem is you are assuming everyone who hunts with a muzzleloader is against this. How did you determine this?

You say you are a muzzleloader. It's you against the "archers." Well I'm just a hunter. So I don't have to pick sides. I hunt with all three methods, and to me this change just allows more flexibility. Like I said, with my archery deer tag and my muzzleloader elk tag this year, I can hunt the late season with my bow, and be legal for both deer and elk at the same time.

It also will allow people to hunt in firearm restricted zones with a bow, but during muzzleloader season.

I just don't see a whole lot of people switching from archery elk season to muzzleloader elk season, like you seem to think will happen. The archery season is better, in my opinion, so why would they? And if they do, oh well. If I feel like the muzzleloader season is worse due to having too many people, I will buy an archery tag and hunt the archery season. You are free to do the same.

[Curly]

Question to Washelk:  Do you think archery gear should be allowed during modern firearm seasons? 

Like I said before, I don't really like this rule change but I'm not going to complain about it too much and not going to waste energy writing to the commission.  There really isn't many good ML units anyway so you're not going to see archery guys flocking to hunt ML seasons.  I think you will see a little bit of an increase in them getting the Multi permits.

[Snapshot]

(...If you archers really want to open a can of worms maybe well just ask for a quid pro quo....

I seriously doubt it was dedicated archery hunters who asked for this change. I don't know a single one who would ask it and I know hundreds of them; it never has come up even once that I recall. No, I think it was guys who don't give a hoot about what weapon they are carrying so long as they are hunting. So that makes it the multi-season tag buyers who stand to gain by it. Since the state came up with this way to raise more money and the winners of the tag shell out an extra $180 or whatever it amounts to...I suspect some of them complained about having to buy both a muzzleloader and a compound in order to take advantage of the multi-tag...

[Kowsrule30]

If a bow hunter wants to come and hunt with their bow during my ML Elk season in the unit I hunt I will film it.... There will be about 6000-7000 hunters in this particular unit.... After opening am I'm gonna bet most encounters are way past most persons archery range... But I could be wrong.....     My shortest shot here on elk has been 52 yards.... On a dead run... Then 68 and up.... The 52 yarder came within 10 feet after the shot though...      I couldn't wait any longer...

IMO it will screw the draw odds up quite a bit for quality.... Last year in a unit I recall there were 7 or 8 quality tags.... @ 700 apps... For archery in the same unit I think they gave out 24!!!! With less than 600 apps... Plus cow tags which you'll have to apply for now... (I think a bunch of gmu's are over the counter cow for archery) And am assuming you don't draw the tag you'll just use the ml anyways.... Or even if you do.... Why chance it....       

[washelkhunter]

Dear Director Anderson and Commissioners.
 
As a long time resident Muzzleloader (ML) I am concerned about the proposed addition of archers into the ML deer and elk seasons as inserted into the proposed 2012-14 regulations. I am dismayed as to why this additional user group in a longtime traditionally ML equipment only hunt has been included and am seeking clarification and the removal of said user group. I do not believe that the ML coummunity has had ample notification or time
to express our concerns about this encroachment and erosion of our historical season. I can think of no valid reason whatsoever why archers should be given access to the ML season. I would appreciate a timely and personal response from all of you on this matter and look forward to discussing it with you.
 
Thank You



Good Morning All.  I just sent the above message to the director and commissioners of WDFW. If you agree with it please feel free to copy and send out
yourselves to:    director@dfw.wa.gov  and  commission@dfw.wa.gov

[Hindtit]

So what is the difference between an archer hunting during the muzzy season with a muzzy tag and an archer with a multiseason tag hunting during the muzzy season?  Only difference is the weapon even though it is more primitive.  Not sure why people are butt hurt about someone hunting with a lesser weapon in "their" season.

[dreamingbig]

I think they are afraid of competition and the impact on draw odds.  Who wouldn't complain if a good thing gets slightly less good?  All user groups are facing increased competition and participation by the increase in the multi-season permits.

[Snapshot]

I think they are afraid of competition and the impact on draw odds.  Who wouldn't complain if a good thing gets slightly less good?  All user groups are facing increased competition and participation by the increase in the multi-season permits.

The multi-tag withers hope that American society won't one day place hunting where Europeans put it decades (if not centuries) ago; into the hands of the wealthier citizens, to the detriment of those less well off...

[pianoman9701]

So what is the difference between an archer hunting during the muzzy season with a muzzy tag and an archer with a multiseason tag hunting during the muzzy season?  Only difference is the weapon even though it is more primitive.  Not sure why people are butt hurt about someone hunting with a lesser weapon in "their" season.

Modern bows are not less of a weapon and in many cases are more of a weapon. First and most important is the rate of fire. I could get off at least 5 or 6 arrows in the time it takes to reload a ML. Secondly, a well tuned bow can shoot as accurately as a ML up to 100 yards (don't start; I don't take 100 yard shots at living things). A bow is also quiet, so the opportunity for a second shot is more likely than with a ML.

A case could be made for traditional archery during ML season, but that would just create a rift (or another rift) between different groups of archers and we don't need that. Adding bows to ML season would also put more people in the woods during that season, leading to angst between ML hunters and bowmen, and we don't need that, either.

[TommyH]

So what is the difference between an archer hunting during the muzzy season with a muzzy tag and an archer with a multiseason tag hunting during the muzzy season?  Only difference is the weapon even though it is more primitive.  Not sure why people are butt hurt about someone hunting with a lesser weapon in "their" season.

Modern bows are not less of a weapon and in many cases are more of a weapon. First and most important is the rate of fire. I could get off at least 5 or 6 arrows in the time it takes to reload a ML. Secondly, a well tuned bow can shoot as accurately as a ML up to 100 yards (don't start; I don't take 100 yard shots at living things). A bow is also quiet, so the opportunity for a second shot is more likely than with a ML.

A case could be made for traditional archery during ML season, but that would just create a rift (or another rift) between different groups of archers and we don't need that. Adding bows to ML season would also put more people in the woods during that season, leading to angst between ML hunters and bowmen, and we don't need that, either.

A modern bow is less of a weapon than a M.L. My sons DAISY BB gun could get off 4-5 shots before an archer could take another shot, does that make the BB gun more of a weapon? A M.L. can shoot at more than triple the distance of bow in most hunting situations.

[pianoman9701]

So what is the difference between an archer hunting during the muzzy season with a muzzy tag and an archer with a multiseason tag hunting during the muzzy season?  Only difference is the weapon even though it is more primitive.  Not sure why people are butt hurt about someone hunting with a lesser weapon in "their" season.

Modern bows are not less of a weapon and in many cases are more of a weapon. First and most important is the rate of fire. I could get off at least 5 or 6 arrows in the time it takes to reload a ML. Secondly, a well tuned bow can shoot as accurately as a ML up to 100 yards (don't start; I don't take 100 yard shots at living things). A bow is also quiet, so the opportunity for a second shot is more likely than with a ML.

A case could be made for traditional archery during ML season, but that would just create a rift (or another rift) between different groups of archers and we don't need that. Adding bows to ML season would also put more people in the woods during that season, leading to angst between ML hunters and bowmen, and we don't need that, either.

A modern bow is less of a weapon than a M.L. My sons DAISY BB gun could get off 4-5 shots before an archer could take another shot, does that make the BB gun more of a weapon? A M.L. can shoot at more than triple the distance of bow in most hunting situations.

I'm giving you the reasoning behind why they're not allowed. BB guns are not allowed during any season. Bad analogy. I'm not defending the prohibited use, just reporting. Go get mad at the DFW, not me.

[Sabotloader]

My question in all of this is...

1. do the bow hunters have a separate season that allows them more days in the woods hunting than does the ML season?

2. Can you use a ML during their bow season?

3. If they are allowed to hunt during the ML season and the bow season how many hunting days do they get versus the person that hunts ML only?

I do not know the regulations for Washington, but it seems to me they (bow hunters) would get many more days in the wood than does a ML hunter, unless a ML hunter can with a ML in the bow season...

Just asking

[pianoman9701]

And here we go...

[Bean Counter]

Never was I more busy defending hunting opportunity than when I was not only working my full-time job but also raising up my two kids (now both in their twenties and living elsewhere), taking them places & being there for them. I was sleeping damn little largely because I didn't grow apathetic towards paying attention to what was going on in the world of hunting politics. I threw out that "head in the sand" remark because I've long observed  that most hunters are completely apathetic towards this sort of thing until they get bit in the butt. And even then most just complain about it after the fact. I commend that you've rolled your sleeves up and taken some action; and yet I won't be surprised if the response that comes back is something like, "The public comment period was run according to law and is closed on the matter."

well said