Down goes illuminated nocks!

[Lowedog]

Now this is just hearsay but from what I have gathered there is someone on the committee that has a friend that has friends that would benefit financially from the legalization of electronics on archery equipment in this state.  Now I am far from saying that this is fact and I hope that isn't how this issue came to be so popular.  But in my very limited and small archery world I did not hear from other archers that it was such a dramatic issue.

This is one of the funniest statements I have read in this argument.    

Let's think back to a lot of the men who are credited with fighting for and getting archery only seasons established and what they gained financially by doing so... 

I would guess that a lot of those men would have no problem with a device that aided them in finding their arrow after the shot.  Especially considering the fact that they took some pretty risky and long shots back in their day.   

[Snapshot]

Unethical hunters are going to do what they are going to do.

Undereducated hunters can be steered into unknowingly making bad decisions. Maybe the things a newbie would learn in a bowhunter education class would counter misinformation put out by manufacturers.

The uneducated/unknowing are the ones likely to, for example, believe it when the Burt Coyote Company says that the electric nock will make them "...more confident in (their) ability to make 'that' shot'.

"Forget the wind, just hunt," sold a lot of dollars worth of product until the makers were forced to remove their misleading claims of 'scent elimination'. It was an example of how some will claim anything that benefits their bottom line.

[Chase 1]

Unethical hunters are going to do what they are going to do.

Undereducated hunters can be steered into unknowingly making bad decisions. Maybe the things a newbie would learn in a bowhunter education class would counter misinformation put out by manufacturers.

The uneducated/unknowing are the ones likely to, for example, believe it when the Burt Coyote Company says that the electric nock will make them "...more confident in (their) ability to make 'that' shot'.

"Forget the wind, just hunt," sold a lot of dollars worth of product until the makers were forced to remove their misleading claims of 'scent elimination'. It was an example of how some will claim anything that benefits their bottom line.

And Nike's make you run faster, Gatoraid makes you jump like Mike, and every new car on the market will make you drive like Dale. Are you insinuating we are all mindless zombies at the mercy of every new add campaign?  Tough sell.

As far as self imposing even more regulations to discourage future archers...
no thanks! 

[JCKILLSHOT]

Just to let you know your wrong about "forget the wind just hunt" its still scent loks slogan. They still are going to make a lot of dollars cause I for one am still going to buy there clothes. Those guys that sued scentlok were just looking to make a dollar. Which is totally ridiculous so is thinking that a companies slogan is not going to make people follow the rules, or someone one is just going to walk on a b-line straight toward a deer with the wind at their back just cause there clothes say to. "Redbull gives you wings" I don't see people sueing over that slogan or jumping off of things thinking they can fly.

[Chase 1]

Just to let you know your wrong about "forget the wind just hunt" its still scent loks slogan. They still are going to make a lot of dollars cause I for one am still going to buy there clothes. Those guys that sued scentlok were just looking to make a dollar. Which is totally ridiculous so is thinking that a companies slogan is not going to make people follow the rules, or someone one is just going to walk on a b-line straight toward a deer with the wind at their back just cause there clothes say to. "Redbull gives you wings" I don't see people sueing over that slogan or jumping off of things thinking they can fly.

Hhhmmmm? Another "fact" that doesn't ring true...weird. When will guys learn that you can't just say or write something to make it true? Still waiting on the 10,000...yes 10,000 signatures to the Commission details. Anyone?

[huntnphool]

Just to let you know your wrong about "forget the wind just hunt" its still scent loks slogan. They still are going to make a lot of dollars cause I for one am still going to buy there clothes. Those guys that sued scentlok were just looking to make a dollar. Which is totally ridiculous so is thinking that a companies slogan is not going to make people follow the rules, or someone one is just going to walk on a b-line straight toward a deer with the wind at their back just cause there clothes say to. "Redbull gives you wings" I don't see people sueing over that slogan or jumping off of things thinking they can fly.

Hhhmmmm? Another "fact" that doesn't ring true...weird. When will guys learn that you can't just say or write something to make it true? Still waiting on the 10,000...yes 10,000 signatures to the Commission details. Anyone?

 Don't hold your breath brother, Snapshot has proven that he only answers the questions that fit his agenda and nothing more, even those he attempts to answer are nothing more than circle jerk rhetoric that he has no foundation of fact.

[Snapshot]

Just to let you know your wrong about "forget the wind just hunt" its still scent loks slogan. They still are going to make a lot of dollars cause I for one am still going to buy there clothes. Those guys that sued scentlok were just looking to make a dollar. Which is totally ridiculous so is thinking that a companies slogan is not going to make people follow the rules, or someone one is just going to walk on a b-line straight toward a deer with the wind at their back just cause there clothes say to. "Redbull gives you wings" I don't see people sueing over that slogan or jumping off of things thinking they can fly.

Hhhmmmm? Another "fact" that doesn't ring true...weird. When will guys learn that you can't just say or write something to make it true? Still waiting on the 10,000...yes 10,000 signatures to the Commission details. Anyone?

 Don't hold your breath brother, Snapshot has proven that he only answers the questions that fit his agenda and nothing more, even those he attempts to answer are nothing more than circle jerk rhetoric that he has no foundation of fact.

I am not in a position to answer anyone's question about petitions because I have no knowledge on the topic. You might want to return to your own circle and check who is holding what, HnP.


I didn't make up the bit about the Burt Coyote Company telling consumers what their electric nock will do for them. I quoted it off their website; they say that using their nock "may make you a better archer and make you more confident in your ability to make 'that' shot." [I wonder what is meant by 'that' shot?  On very same page it says their product makes an arrow visible at practice distances "beyond 100 yards." Could that be what they mean when they say "that" shot.  I hope not, but a greenhorn could sure take it that way.]

As I recall it seems to me that the words "Scent Control" had, in at least some instances, replaced the words "scent elimination." I could be wrong about that. I don't watch the hunting-porn channels very often and I don't go down the aisles at the sporting good stores that display the stuff, so I haven't seen recent ad campaigns.

The bottom line is that there are messages being sent in advertising that could, in my opinion, use some balancing. Bowhunter education is a good program and the instructor that conducted the class when I accompanied my daughter through it did a great job. If every person who wants to try bowhunting had to take his class he/she would come away with first-hand knowledge that would have taken them years to obtain on their own. I'd much rather have an experienced bowhunter instructor influencing hunter decisions than have manufacturers influencing hunter decisions.

[JCKILLSHOT]

Look it up they just won the appeal!!! I did look it up just to let you know and seen it on there commercial. THANKS THOUGH!!!

[Snapshot]

Look it up they just won the appeal!!! I did look it up just to let you know and seen it on there commercial. THANKS THOUGH!!!

They didn't 'just' win the appeal; that was decided eight months ago. From FieldandStream.com dated Aug 26, 2011:

The judge presiding over the appeal ruled that ALS’s use of the terms “odor eliminating” and “reactivation” was not literally false. According to a press release issued by ALS, the judge ruled that “the district court had erred in ‘basing its determination of literal falsity on the most absolute of competing dictionary definitions of the word eliminate.’” .”

Some lively discussion followed the Field & Stream piece: talk of advertisers taking advantage of unknowing people. Thanks, JC for prompting me to Google that topic. I had not seen the report before and now that I have I know I am not alone in my thinking.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/whitetail-365/2011/08/scent-lok-notches-victory-appellate-court

[Chase 1]

Is this is the quote your referring too? If your going to quote something, just quote it. Somehow you managed to twist this statement into your own words and make it sound negative to suit your argument. Can't find anything wrong with this. 

Retrieved from Lumenok website:

"They work great for hunting and target shooting. The Lumenok aids the archer with bow tuning.You can see erratic arrow flight much better because of the light on the end of the arrow. Practicing at greater distances allows the archer to immediately associate the result of a shot with his effort. The archer’s ability to see the arrow from release to impact at distances beyond 100 yards allows unprecedented rapid feedback to the shooter, even with today’s fastest bows. If your bow needs tuning, or your form needs improvement, the Lumenok will help you realize it and address those issues."

If the "beyond 100yd." reference is your issue, then you must skip the last stand at the archery shoots? Almost every shoot I've been to has a long distance shot to end the course and they have little to do with hunting. Longshots are fun to practice but certainly aren't intended to translate to the field. As far as encouraging archers to take unethical shots, this statement seems to suggest the exact opposite. Proper tuning, recognition of eratic arrow flight, correcting shooting form, learning distance to arrow drop, improved confidence, and immediate feedback, all seem like positive help for archers to improve their skills. Not to mention the aid in arrow retrieval. Helping archers prevent leaving razorblades in the woods seems like a good enough reason for them to be legal to me. 

[D-Rock425]

 

[Snapshot]

C'mon, D-Rock, Chase has a dog in the fight so humor us both, please, as we feel each other out. We are not going to change each other's mind; but the folks who don't yet have an opinion and who stumble upon threads like this have the good fortune of being shown every side of the topic of debate. What harm could come of that?

Yes, Chase, that is exactly where I saw it. What is obvious to an experienced bowhunter isn't obvious to someone who has no experience in the matter. What one person takes from an advertisement will be different from what another will take from the same advertisement; it is entirely dependant upon each individual's life experiences. I know that some people launch arrows at live animals at distances of ninety yards, maybe more. Just what life experiences leads them to having the idea that doing so is conscionable is beyond me! Could it be the power of suggestion in such advertising as this? Or is it simply the mindset that comes from having cut one's eye teeth using a long-range weapon? No one can answer that...

Lost arrows cutting people is such a rarity that I had never heard of it until someone made a claim to the game commission these past two years of it having happened to someone. [People shooting from roads into private agricultural fields and leaving the arrows rather than being caught trespassing is a different issue; mandating identifiers on arrows might be the only way to curtail that...yuck.] Maybe replaceable stainless steel broadheads that don't corrode in a single winter like ordinary steel are the real culprit and are to blame? They too were birthed out of an inability and/or an unwillingness to put an effort into something that used to be integral to bowhunting and woodsmanship: sharpening steel with a file and stone. ...Teach a man to fish...

[JCKILLSHOT]

As I said before if you believe every company slogan your an IDIOT!!!

[Chase 1]

Yes, Chase, that is exactly where I saw it. What is obvious to an experienced bowhunter isn't obvious to someone who has no experience in the matter. What one person takes from an advertisement will be different from what another will take from the same advertisement; it is entirely dependant upon each individual's life experiences. I know that some people launch arrows at live animals at distances of ninety yards, maybe more. Just what life experiences leads them to having the idea that doing so is conscionable is beyond me! Could it be the power of suggestion in such advertising as this? Or is it simply the mindset that comes from having cut one's eye teeth using a long-range weapon? No one can answer that...

Lost arrows cutting people is such a rarity that I had never heard of it until someone made a claim to the game commission these past two years of it having happened to someone. [People shooting from roads into private agricultural fields and leaving the arrows rather than being caught trespassing is a different issue; mandating identifiers on arrows might be the only way to curtail that...yuck.] Maybe replaceable stainless steel broadheads that don't corrode in a single winter like ordinary steel are the real culprit and are to blame? They too were birthed out of an inability and/or an unwillingness to put an effort into something that used to be integral to bowhunting and woodsmanship: sharpening steel with a file and stone. ...Teach a man to fish...

Unethical practices plague every user group, it's not unique to archers. This isn't a matter of keeping a new tool used for unethical practices out of the hands of those who would use it to further their questionable practices. Equipment, standards, advertising, even rules are not the source of this problem. I for one am not in favor of defining rules based on this extreme minority group. I don't think for one second that any of the unethical hunters you speak of were convinced by a company ad campaign that they are justified in their actions.

IMO unrecovered broadheads are much more threatening to animals than people. Of course there is no data to support this, but how could there be? My contention is that every broadhead not left in the field is a good thing and just one of the reasons for this to go through.

I also have a major issue when Commissioner Jennings (the most vocal opponent of this change) told his fellow commissioners that the majority of arrows shot in the field are not recoverable so lumenok will make no difference in recovery. What?? The majority are unrecoverable? This kind of spoken like fact, misinformation really fires me up. Some of the Commissioners are absolutely clueless on the issues they vote on, this was no diffrent. The information that reaches the Commission is often all they use to vote with. When a Commissioner spreads misinformation or ignorants on an issue like it's fact, without any opportunity for rebuttal because it's during the voting process, I have an issue with that. Much like I have had an issue with that same tactics from you and others on the other side of this issue. Scare tactics, misinformation, extremists, elitists, and down right fabrication, is personally intolerable to me. That, like I've said, is my driving motivation to even engage in this debate.   

[Lowedog]

I know that some people launch arrows at live animals at distances of ninety yards, maybe more. Just what life experiences leads them to having the idea that doing so is conscionable is beyond me! Could it be the power of suggestion in such advertising as this? Or is it simply the mindset that comes from having cut one's eye teeth using a long-range weapon? No one can answer that...

Or perhaps they read some of the adventures of Fred Bear or Pope & Young and some of the other pioneers of modern archery...