Changing hunting in Washington

[Branden]

You would be managing them for the wolves and N.A. In that case!

I'm not saying to cut tag numbers. I am suggesting spreading hunters out.

[CplRaines]

I got one I'd be all in for -
You can only hunt the GMU that you live in.   

[Branden]

I may not agree with your suggestion totally but, I do like your progressive thinking. Having new ideas thrown out there for everyone to debate is much better than the bitching trend that we seem to fall into.

Agreed. This idea isn't that popular. No biggie it doesn't hurt my feelings any. But if other guys don't suggest anything else, I don't expect to see anymore complaining on the board about hunting in Washington

I hunt Idaho and Montana as well as WA. They are all different and better/worse in thier own ways. Blacktail hunting in WA is awesome as it is so I say leave it as is.

Thanks for the reply

I got one I'd be all in for -
You can only hunt the GMU that you live in.   

Certain units nobody could hunt then. But I do like the idea

[Bean Counter]

I mainly hunt New Mexico, Arizona, and Washington. Quality of animals in NM and AZ is way better. I think a lot of WA hunts should go.to.draw only. 

[Alan K]

I regularly hunt Idaho and Colorado along with Washington of course.  Sure the quality is easier to come by in the other states, but there is plenty of quality in each and every unit on the west side of Washington.  I can't speak for the east side since I haven't spent a ton of time over there, but I'd imagine the escapement for some of those open country animals is tougher to come by.  Over here on the west side they can take 1 step and elude a hunter in the area.

It's amazing the sheds I've found in areas with open access 24/7 year around that I'm sure gets poached often judging by how nocturnal the animals are.  You'd never think that mature deer or elk would make it that long in these kind of areas but they do.  They might not be around practically every corner like they are in states like Colorado and Idaho, but they are there.  Around here you really have to put your time in and understand how the specific areas you're hunting work if you're going to be successful with any regularity on mature animals.

We have draw only units for hunts where nice animals are easy to come by.  Sure it'd be great to take a nice animal every year without much effort, but that's just not going to happen here.  I like to know I am able to hunt most of the units in the state every year, hunt hard, and tag an animal each year.  No way I'd want to have to draw a tag in order to hunt, even if there were a few units that were a guaranteed draw that I could hunt with the other thousands of guys that want to be able to hunt every year.

On the west side if I'm willing to take any buck for meat, I'm 99% certain that I'll fill my tag. Of course elk is a whole different story, but I can't complain about the quality of hunting over here at all.

[Branden]

I regularly hunt Idaho and Colorado along with Washington of course.  Sure the quality is easier to come by in the other states, but there is plenty of quality in each and every unit on the west side of Washington.  I can't speak for the east side since I haven't spent a ton of time over there, but I'd imagine the escapement for some of those open country animals is tougher to come by.  Over here on the west side they can take 1 step and elude a hunter in the area.

It's amazing the sheds I've found in areas with open access 24/7 year around that I'm sure gets poached often judging by how nocturnal the animals are.  You'd never think that mature deer or elk would make it that long in these kind of areas but they do.  They might not be around practically every corner like they are in states like Colorado and Idaho, but they are there.  Around here you really have to put your time in and understand how the specific areas you're hunting work if you're going to be successful with any regularity on mature animals.

We have draw only units for hunts where nice animals are easy to come by.  Sure it'd be great to take a nice animal every year without much effort, but that's just not going to happen here.  I like to know I am able to hunt most of the units in the state every year, hunt hard, and tag an animal each year.  No way I'd want to have to draw a tag in order to hunt, even if there were a few units that were a guaranteed draw that I could hunt with the other thousands of guys that want to be able to hunt every year.

On the west side if I'm willing to take any buck for meat, I'm 99% certain that I'll fill my tag. Of course elk is a whole different story, but I can't complain about the quality of hunting over here at all.

Please reread my first post. I think you misread what I wrote.

 Every unit that has a general season in it now would have a general tag. You would have to pick the unit, and you couldn't put in for a premium tag then if you wanted to hunt a general season. I am not saying quality of animals would improve. I'm saying the quality of hunts would improve because there would be less crowding.

I mainly hunt New Mexico, Arizona, and Washington. Quality of animals in NM and AZ is way better. I think a lot of WA hunts should go.to.draw only. 

Exactly. Colorado residents didn't want to go to draw only for deer when they were talking of implementing it. But now it is the best state to hunt for deer. And you can get a tag every year. Also, if Colorado changed one thing about their system, even the best tags in the state wouldn't take more then a few years to draw.

Wyoming used to be a premier deer destination. The herd there has been in the dumps for a while now. This year they are severely limiting non residents, and residents are even saying they should go to draw only to try and bring the herds back.

[Special T]

If you look at the issue from a hunter is the problem then this is a good idea.  It is easy to control by the WDFW from the comfort of the warm office they reside in. IF you want to increase quality for NO $$$ outlay the WDFW COULD change its love affair with Predators. Controlling predators lifts ALL hunt-able species and HUNTERS would PAY do the work for the WDFW if they would get the hell out of the way. The way you frame the issue IS the problem, because it is that kind of "management" that the WDFW has been doing for some time now... We will never be rid of predators with Scientifically manged predator hunting but the WDFW seems to resist that. I have ONLY hunted the west side for deer and elk and can tell you there is NO reason for GMU restrictions here. 

[bobcat]

Oregon has over the counter tags for their general blacktail deer seasons on the westside of Oregon. The east side is draw only for mule deer rifle hunts, but over the counter archery tags. Pretty much the same for elk. Most of western Oregon is general seasons, most of eastern Oregon is draw only for the rifle elk hunts, and over the counter tags for archery. Why couldn't Washington do something similar?

[3nails]

Branden- Are there places with overcrowding? Besides the fuzzy-butt hills I mean? I'm actually surprised how few of hunters I see each year. Maybe it's a east side problem?

[bobcat]

Branden- Are there places with overcrowding? Besides the fuzzy-butt hills I mean? I'm actually surprised how few of hunters I see each year. Maybe it's a east side problem?

Ever been to Vail?

[CAMPMEAT]

I got one I'd be all in for -
You can only hunt the GMU that you live in.   

Only for 1 year because the King County hunters would kill each other, thusly reducing the number of hunters in the state dramatically !!! Whining would be reduced by half and we could carry on and leave it the way it is. 

[bearpaw]

Brandon,
Your solution is not a solution I would be in favor of trying, but I respect the fact that you are looking for solutions, not everyone will take the time or effort to do that. 

I agree with Special T that the state needs to do a much better job of managing predators.

Reduce the coyote population by 70% and you will greatly reduce fawn mortality. Reduce the cougar population by 70% and you will nearly eliminate cougar conflicts and you will greatly reduce deer and elk mortality by cougar. Manage wolves like Wyoming, wolves may be shot on sight in 88% of the state and you will prevent further significant losses of our game herds to predators.

We are all living the good old days right now, anyone in Montana or Idaho will tell you exactly what is about to happen in Washington due to wolves.

Predators are killing our game herds 24/7/365, hunters only have a few weeks to hunt, I suggest that we do a much better job of managing predator numbers and there will be much more game for hunters. Why do you think the anti-hunters love predators, they know hunters have to compete for what's left after predators take their share, the more predators, the less game for hunters.

[Chesapeake]

I like the concept, but maybe not the details. Maybe something more like Wyoming where you have "regions" to choose from for the more general stuff and specific units for the more special hunts.

I dont like the idea of boxing a guy into a short season or single unit.

Maybe something where you have to choose a "region" for your general over the counter tag. Then you can put in for any "special" draws. Maybe even make the "region" tags be a draw, but with liberal tag numbers. The draw would just be so folks werent all stuffed into the same region. If the draw app. had 4 choices, you would get to hunt, you just might not get your first choice region if its tag quota was filled. Have the unfilled tags go for sale over the counter after the draw.

The high hunt could be left as a general tag hunt available to all. Or if need be make folks draw a wilderness and set limits on tags per wilderness to controll harvest. Draw might not be popular for this though. Guys are pretty well invested in the areas they do the high hunt.

I think we could use some change, but folks are so ingrained with "go camp and hunt the same place every year for 30 years" that they really arent open to any change that might affect that.

I think the East/West split for elk does some good, and I think that same good could benefit deer. I also think Washingtons method of making you choose a weapon before you can enter the draws does some good. I think we can do more of that "making you choose" to controll pressure and improve the quality.

Though I dont know how best to improve the system, I full well know that what we have now isnt the best It could be. There is room for improvement.







 

[JPhelps]

I think something needs to be done and Branden and Chesepeake are heading in the right direction.  As for details a lot would need to be worked out.

The thing that bothers me in this state is there is nothing in place to prevent everyone in the state with the same deer or elk tag to show up on the general opener and be in the same unit.  The current system does not and can not prevent over harvest during the general season.  By breaking things up into regions/units an automatic managing tool is put in place.

With that being said I love the freedom we have in this state as far as hunting goes but when it starts to affect the quantity and quality of game animals, I am all for looking into a new system.

Throw predator management into the mix and there may never be a good solution.

[Branden]

Chesapeake

Another idea I had instead was to make hunters choose the species of deer. You would have to choose either blacktail, muley, or whitetail. That would kind of be like choosing regions but they would be very large regions.

I will say this again. I am not trying to control harvest with this plan. Just hunter congestion. Also, if you look at how many guys apply for quality buck tags, and how few tags there are, it is almost an oil tag. So if you had to choose between hunting every year, and applying for a quality permit, it would make the odds go up on getting drawn for a quality tag, and still allow any of the hunters that want a tag every year to hunt. They just would not be allowed to put in for a quality tag.

Bearpaw, I think the state needs to manage predators, but also manage the units. It is not managing units when there is a free for all. You wanted the APR put in place to test out, which may or may not work. How many less hunters hunted those 2 units this year, and crowded into other units?

Curious why you think it is good to restrict harvest with the apr,  but not actually manage the units?
I agree better predator control would help a lot. Also less poachers. Maybe winter feeding programs like you mentioned in other threads. But there is still an overcrowding problem in some units during certain seasons.

And again, I am not talking about managing harvest. I am talking about reducing overcrowding for a better overall hunt experience.