Changing hunting in Washington

[autodink13]

I agree with you chesapeake about the 1 choice.  WDFW could even keep the 2 choices but look at everybody's first choice before looking at anybody's second choice.

[halflife65]

Here's my opinion.
I can say the same thing about those that complain about hunting here and those that complain about the rain and weather here.
Ya don't like it - Arizona (or any other state for that matter) is that-a-way. ->
Don't like it, leave.
And especially for those that have moved here from elswhere - quite trying to change "here" to be more like the $H!Thole you left.

I'm jist sayin. 

 

Seriously?  If you don't like something, then move.  God forbid you try to improve anything - it's WAY better to just give up and move away.  I don't like everything the government of the ol' USA is doing right now.  Should I just move out of the country?  Wow.  Whatever you do, DON'T try to think of innovative ways to make things better...because if you do then obviously you're from Arizona.

I'm not sure that I totally agree with the idea but I'm really glad someone is thinking about trying to improve something rather than just moving to another state.  If it was up to me, you'd have the general season hunts where you choose a unit or "zone" (like the old elk tags) but if you drew a special hunt you wouldn't be hunting general season, too.  So, you choose your hunt in general, put in for your draws and, if you draw, that's your hunt.  If you don't, then go general (which could be high hunt, could be some unit/units that you've chosen.)  You can then perhaps change some of the draw hunts to give some more opportunity in some areas - something a little similar to Idaho. 

Make a higher quality experience, but still give everyone a chance to hunt.  Lots of people complain about the deer hunting sucking but then bitches if someone tries to come up with a way to improve it.  You don't have to like it, but come up with an alternative rather than just saying "you're obviously from AZ (or pick your state) if you want to improve something.  Move back."  That's just a good way to keep things sucking. 

[bearpaw]

I like to hunt every year and from hunter surveys I have seen that is what most WA hunters want.

You could hunt every year under my plan.

I recently had a good conversation about hunter crowding with some residents from the Ellensberg area and the continuing decline of deer herds and elk hunting opportunity in that area. From what I was told there definitely needs to be something done to address the problems in that area, but that doesn't mean hunter crowding is that big of a problem in every area of Washington. I think you need to look at specific areas for the problems in that area, I do not believe "one size fits all" management is the answer for the problems in every area of the state.

My suggestion to you is that you come up with a trial plan for a unit or two that hunters will agree needs a change in management and then try to unite hunters to support the new management plan, then lobby the commission and dept and try to make it happen. But I don't think you will gain much support by asking to change the management style of the whole state on a whim. You need to take a measured approach and let hunters see how a new management model may benefit the herds and hunters in a small area first.

The problem with picking out just a couple units and making them totally limited to reduce harvest, overcrowding, etc. Is that then you promote those things in the adjacent units by adding the additional hunters to surrounding units. Also a lot of guys hunt the same areas year after year, and by changing to pick your unit you could still hunt your traditional hunt every year if you want.

Answer's in red.

I realize this idea isn't popular here. But every state is going to management strategies like this of some sort or another. Why? My guess is because then you can actually manage units. Why does it work in other states, but wouldn't work here? Nevada upped their deer licenses about 35% this year. That is pretty good when almost every other states deer herds are declining in the west.

bearpaw said something like, "blanket management doesn't work" I agree, and neither does not managing units at all. 

There is no doubt your plan would reduce crowding and probably result in more older aged bucks.
From a business standpoint that would be good for my business to have more bigger bucks avilable. 

From a personnal standpoint I like being able to have as many days in the field as possible and that is another concern of other hunters as well, under your plan WA hunters would give up days in the field. I'm not sure how many hunters want to do that? 

I also have concerns that the more restrictive you make hunting the less recruitment we have into the sport and the more hunters who will simply quit. If we keep losing ground with hunter numbers soon there will be no hunters to support our hunting heritage.

We already manage many units in the state differently from each other so that would be nothing new to try something in another unit or two that is different than the others, rather than changing the whole state.

I am still convinced the best strategy is to manage predators, habitat, and make our herds more productive rather than take away opportunity because of poor management of our herds.

I am interested in hearing what others have to say.

[Chesapeake]

Restrictive isnt the issue. Alot of us jump through all kinds of hoops to hunt all over the country.

Days in the field isnt a real issue. Most folks hunt a few weekends a year. For the rest of us there is always something open to chase from elk all the way down to shed antlers.

The only proposal that I really dont think I could work with so far is making you choose a hunt that would restrict you to the high buck hunt for your general season. Thats just too short and limited. But if in creating such a system, you could then lenghten that season, then maybe I could go for that.

I pretty well like at least a little bit of all the other proposals on here other than the "Leave if you dont like it" ones.

[Chesapeake]

On the same lines.

If days in the field was a primary issue then why do most elk hunters choose the Rifle season, the shortest one, to hunt elk? Likewise for deer?

I'd gladly trade lots of unproductive crowded days in the field, a few productive, not so crowded days in the field.

We have many western states to look at as case studies for different ways to run hunting seasons and draws. In fact I believe they are all pretty well different to some degree. There are things I like and dislike about them all. I will say that Washington makes the bottom of the list for me.

[bobcat]

The problem with having "the number of hunting days" as the main priority is that it results in less animals to be seen during all those days we get to hunt. I'd rather hunt fewer days and see more animals per day. There is always birds to hunt, or bears, coyotes, bobcats, etc.

Predator management and habitat improvement- both of these things cost a ton of money, that the state doesn't have. So these things just aren't going to get done in any significant amount.

But we can control the number of hunters in the field at any one time, which will reduce harvest somewhat, at least in the areas in which it needs to be reduced. How can the system we have now be called "game management?" There is no control whatsoever on how many people hunt each unit, and when.

[JimmyHoffa]

If I was to change up the deer/elk hunting I would probably do the following.  Make 3 maybe 4 equal length seasons that give all close to the avg number of days for the current seasons and get rid of the pick your weapon.
So example would be deer season 1 would be September (early birds, high hunters, warm weather lovers), 2 would be in October, 3 Late Nov-mid Dec (migration hunters, snow lovers).  Multi-season tags would allow hunting each season.
It would be more flexible for people to get time off work, make their hunting camp plans, season wouldn't be disjointed early/late.  Would stay OTC, special permits would fall in between the different seasons (like rut) and it wouldn't matter which weapon you had or season you hunted to apply for permits.
Also would probably use a portion of license sales for a bounty program for predators, like $10 a yote/bob..$20 for a bear...and $50 for a cougar.
Just some ideas.  Like that this thread has all kinds of ideas being tossed around...even if I don't like all the ideas.

[bearpaw]

I honestly think the state can make money with predator management. I would gladly pay $500 for a hound hunting permit to run my dogs on cougar and bear in WA. Others may not pay that much, but my point is that predator hunting would add to the funding sources, it don't have to cost anything. If they want coyotes killed, all they have to do is loosen up the contest rules and we will get coyote hunters out hunting and the state will sell them hunting licenses. 

[3nails]

Branden- Are there places with overcrowding? Besides the fuzzy-butt hills I mean? I'm actually surprised how few of hunters I see each year. Maybe it's a east side problem?

Ever been to Vail?

No, but I'm guessing it's bad.

[Chesapeake]

I dont think predator management is a WDFW issue at this point.

Yeah, they helped in losing hound hunting, but US the voters are equaly or more to blame for that than they are.

Right now cougar season is pretty darn libral. Coyote is open all year, and Bear also has very libral seasons.

The WDFW has all but handed us the predator management keys. Within their budget and ability they have done their part. We shouldnt complain about predators unless we have killed so many they have to shut down the season to keep us from iradicating them.

Who's willing to bet with the new system they wont be needing to close the late season for cougars? Will that be their fault, or ours?

Have you killed a predator lately? I know I havent done my part, but I get a few of the song dogs a year.

I'm not sure where I stand on feeding, but I dont think thats part of this conversation.

[Special T]

Here is why you are Wrong Chesapeake... The WDFW is NOT our ally on Predators. Even IF we set aside the hound hunting as not with in thier power(Which is arguable). The WDFW has NOT done things to help... This year they had some 2 bit ignoramus try and institute BS regulations on the kind of shot and caliber of weapon for spotlighting coyotes. That is and ACTIVE assault on our ability to effectively hunter predators.  Kain Did a great job researching and pointing out the fact that we could make the cougar season OPEN YEAR ROUND and not likely over harvest cougars using current methods. BTW it took a bunch of bitching about weapons restrictions to get that bad idea reversed. bear season USED to start in August... but no longer does because of "PC Conflict"... Now starts in September...   They should increase the spring permits by a bunch but i think they have only increased them a little. (not sure of the actual numbers)   Several years ago the Washington Waterfowl association tried to get a separate bag limit for mergansers. That issue was tabled and has not been brought back up.... Do you see a trend here?  I DO! 

I have not yet shot a cougar, bear or bobcat, but i blast every legal coyote, crow, Magpie, and merganser i can! EVERY year my bro and law and i Kill about 40+- mag pies that are in the act of depredation.  We have really thinned them down around his farm and his neighbors. 

[bearpaw]

I dont think predator management is a WDFW issue at this point.

Yeah, they helped in losing hound hunting, but US the voters are equaly or more to blame for that than they are.

Right now cougar season is pretty darn libral. Coyote is open all year, and Bear also has very libral seasons.

The WDFW has all but handed us the predator management keys. Within their budget and ability they have done their part. We shouldnt complain about predators unless we have killed so many they have to shut down the season to keep us from iradicating them.

Who's willing to bet with the new system they wont be needing to close the late season for cougars? Will that be their fault, or ours?

Have you killed a predator lately? I know I havent done my part, but I get a few of the song dogs a year.

I'm not sure where I stand on feeding, but I dont think thats part of this conversation.

If you were speaking to me, I actually don't pull the trigger too often, but I have done my part at helping others pull the trigger on a predator or two. 

To explain a little further about the coyotes, the WDFW eliminated dog hunting of coyotes for no real reason and they have very tight limits on coyote contests. If contests could charge an entry fee and provide bigger prizes hunters would be more anxious to do their part. We used to kill a lot of coyotes in WA until the anti's ruined the fur market. This would cost the state nothing to make these changes. They would even benefit by increased small game license sales. If they wanted to hand us a key, they could also remove the license requirement, many states do not require a license for hunting coyotes.

For cougars WDFW has set ridiculously low quotas based on biologists with obvious agendas to save cougars. No keys there...

FYI - The WDFW did not support hounding, baiting, or trapping when the anti's were trying to eliminate those hunting methods, so no, they have not handed us the keys, they have actually helped take them away.

Additionally, it is the WDFW that is forcing 50% more wolves than required by the feds into Washington. The feds delisted wolves in E WA, the WDFW still has the season closed, they avoid hiring experienced trappers who could prove more wolf packs exist, so WDFW definitely has not given up any keys on wolves, not even for livestock eating wolves. 

Fall bear seasons have been reduced so no keys there either. But I will give credit where credit is due, the WDFW has given us a few spring bear permits across the state. 

[Special T]

BP  I agree, and i think those are the points we need to HAMMER every time someone "thinks" the WDFW is being . They are NOT our allies and their actions prove it!

[JimmyHoffa]

Agree that cougar season (and bobcats) should be year round.  Even with them being generous on days, where I find the cougars/bobs is generally snow blocked from mid-Dec to mid-April, so about three months of the season I have to drive a lot farther to find cats.  Even with chains and 4wd I can't get beyond about 2 ft deep snow.  It isn't the whole area, just shady/windy sides of the mountains.  So the animals are back in where it becomes a royal PITA to get to.

[Chesapeake]

No doubt WDFW's ear is held by the liberal Seattle politicians and tree huggers. I won't argue that. But I can easily remember the August black bear opener. The hounds chasing cougars. And the past years of coyote hunting. But what I don't remember is masses of hunters taking advantage of those situations. And i certainly dont remember hunters bragging of numerous harvests. But now you two speak as if the changes in the last few years have greatly curtailed predator hunting. I don't see it except for the cats.
No license for coyotes. Any hunt license they sell works for coyote. Do you think folks aren't hunting coyotes cause they don't want to buy a license?

I still believe hunters aren't taking advantage of the predator seasons we have. We didn't before, and we didn't defend what we had before.

Do you eat mergansers? We kill a few sawbills every year but they aren't edible and a bit hard to give away.

I've killed coyotes and a bobcat. I'll kill the first cougar that gives me a shot.