Rayonier Fossil Creek / Salmon Creek Access Permits

[logger]

That burns my ass, I am doing a green diamond unit, last week the crew left at 3 p.m I stayed and shovel logged till 7p.m when I get to the gate, there is 22 bags of household garbage right in the road.

[shadowless_nite]

just curious, but anyone got any updates on these permits. Last i heard ( a week ago) they said by email " they are expected to roll out within the next few weeks, keep an eye on the site." Which doesn't help much when you ask for simple details such as price or a release date.

[fireweed]

About the tax breaks.
The land and timber are taxed seperately. Yes, there is a big excise tax on harvest, but each year there is still a small tax on the land, that is taxed less than the land your house sits on because it provides public benefits.  The law doesn't specifically say how much each public benefit is worth, but the legislative findings in the law DO list them:

Legislative findings.
     (1) The public welfare requires that this state's system for taxation of timber and forest lands be modernized to assure the citizens of this state and its future generations the advantages to be derived from the continuous production of timber and forest products from the significant area of privately owned forests in this state. It is this state's policy to encourage forestry and restocking and reforesting of such forests so that present and future generations will enjoy the benefits which forest areas provide in enhancing water supply, in minimizing soil erosion, storm and flood damage to persons or property, in providing a habitat for wild game, in providing scenic and recreational spaces, in maintaining land areas whose forests contribute to the natural ecological equilibrium, and in providing employment and profits to its citizens and raw materials for products needed by everyone.

Therefore the state is justifying the tax break on timber and timberland.  And therefore timberland owners are double-dipping into the public's pocket when they charge fees: they get part of their LAND taxbreak from providing "recreational spaces" and they can charge the public too.  I say the system should have a value for each benefit, like 20% for recreation, and the timberland that charge get as smaller tax break than those that don't charge. 

Their are other loopholes too.  Developements pioneered by Weyerhaeuser called "forest reserves" use the taxation loopholes to pay timberland rates on land that will never be managed for raw materials or logged.  Hard to imagine logging trucks, slash piles, and helicopter spraying in gated communities of McMansions.  They won't log or will log so rarely, they won't pay excise tax.  Timberland should meet the intent of the law to get such a tax breaks.

[sirmissalot]

About the tax breaks.
The land and timber are taxed seperately. Yes, there is a big excise tax on harvest, but each year there is still a small tax on the land, that is taxed less than the land your house sits on because it provides public benefits.  The law doesn't specifically say how much each public benefit is worth, but the legislative findings in the law DO list them:

Legislative findings.
     (1) The public welfare requires that this state's system for taxation of timber and forest lands be modernized to assure the citizens of this state and its future generations the advantages to be derived from the continuous production of timber and forest products from the significant area of privately owned forests in this state. It is this state's policy to encourage forestry and restocking and reforesting of such forests so that present and future generations will enjoy the benefits which forest areas provide in enhancing water supply, in minimizing soil erosion, storm and flood damage to persons or property, in providing a habitat for wild game, in providing scenic and recreational spaces, in maintaining land areas whose forests contribute to the natural ecological equilibrium, and in providing employment and profits to its citizens and raw materials for products needed by everyone.

Therefore the state is justifying the tax break on timber and timberland.  And therefore timberland owners are double-dipping into the public's pocket when they charge fees: they get part of their LAND taxbreak from providing "recreational spaces" and they can charge the public too.  I say the system should have a value for each benefit, like 20% for recreation, and the timberland that charge get as smaller tax break than those that don't charge. 

Their are other loopholes too.  Developements pioneered by Weyerhaeuser called "forest reserves" use the taxation loopholes to pay timberland rates on land that will never be managed for raw materials or logged.  Hard to imagine logging trucks, slash piles, and helicopter spraying in gated communities of McMansions.  They won't log or will log so rarely, they won't pay excise tax.  Timberland should meet the intent of the law to get such a tax breaks.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Its just in their best interest, policitally, to provide recreational access. Otherwise we as voters could change the laws (maybe). Its already being talked about, both for timber companies who won't provide public access and to those who charge access fees.

[HoofsandWings]

That burns my ass, I am doing a green diamond unit, last week the crew left at 3 p.m I stayed and shovel logged till 7p.m when I get to the gate, there is 22 bags of household garbage right in the road.

Well, it could be bear hunters trying to get the bears out in the open for the opener. Or it could be coyote hunters.

[slim9300]

That burns my ass, I am doing a green diamond unit, last week the crew left at 3 p.m I stayed and shovel logged till 7p.m when I get to the gate, there is 22 bags of household garbage right in the road.

Well, it could be bear hunters trying to get the bears out in the open for the opener. Or it could be coyote hunters.

It doesn't sound like you are kidding and if you aren't, you need to reassess your views of hunters in general. I don't know a single hunter that would dump bags of garbage on a logging road. The only people that do that are meth heads and idiots that I wouldn't mind seeing disappear from society.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HoofsandWings]

I did not say they are honorable.

My hunting partner had some real low lifes surround him when he came out of the woods and was heading to the truck. They did not say anything, but they intimidated him to leave the area.

Over next to the Toutle unit, a guy shot a nice bull, but before he could get to the animal, some guys ran over to the bull and said they had shot the elk. There were six of them. I ran into him a little while later and he told me what happened.

[logger]

You guy's sure got it out for the so called "tax break", research it some more and see if it would be wise to take that ground out of timberland classification.

[grundy53]

You guy's sure got it out for the so called "tax break", research it some more and see if it would be wise to take that ground out of timberland classification.

[sirmissalot]

You guy's sure got it out for the so called "tax break", research it some more and see if it would be wise to take that ground out of timberland classification.

I sure don't have it out for anyone, let alone a tax break. I guess I'm confused as to what the arguement is. I agree with the timber companies getting as many breaks as possible, I'm just saying the way I read it they are supposed to provide "recreational spaces". I also understand (now) they are in no way required to allow public access, let alone free public access. I don't blame the timber companies one bit for wanting to charge access fees, and as long as they remain reasonable, I have no problem with it. If it were my land, I too would charge access fees to the general public, why not? We now have to pay to access state land (discovery pass) I don't see why a private landowner shouldn't do the same. I just hope for the sake of all of us, sportsman especially, that they still allow public access, fees or not, I think we can all agree to that.

[Legacy]

I understand why the large timber companies like Weyco, Rayonier, Hancock etc. are reluctant to simply open up their lands (which are actively managed for timber production and may have logging or other forest management activities going on) to hunters and others for recreation purposes, either at all or at a minimum, with the requirement of having to purchase expensive access permits.

Taking the Margaret unit as an example, there are a total of 426 tags being issued for bull and antlerless elk hunts there this fall over basically an 8 - 9 week period.  Assuming that a lot of these hunters also want to bring along a buddy or two to scout or accompany the tag holder, its easy to realize there could be up to 1,000 "strangers" walking or driving or riding bikes, etc. to hunt elk on these privately owned timber lands with most their activities starting well before daylight and ending after dark. In addition, the timber companies have to assess the risks of potential liability to these folks as well as the additional risks of potential property damage they may experience as a result of vandalism, torn up roads, garbage, fire, camps, road blockages, gate damage, etc.

I can also understand why some timber companies may not even want to mess with limited hunter access through the purchase of access permits. In and of itself, these can still create potential liability issues and an administrative headache these private timberland owners may not want to deal with because some of the additional issues listed above simply don't go away.

[tjsr61]

Any word on permits yet?

[tj93_51]

Heard on the radio this morning that Fossil Creek permits go on sale August 1st and bidding for Salmon Creek permits begins then also. Don't have any info on number of permits or price though

[HoofsandWings]

I am on the mailing list and received an e-mail from Tracie today. It gives all of the instructions and procedures to follow.

Call Tracie toll free 1-855-RAY-HUNT (729-4868) 

[Bolt Action]

i received an email yesturday from the Rayonier company that they had permits going on sale August 1st.