Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine

[Special T]

With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?

So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

All of this stuff doesn't matter anymore. No matter what side you tend to vote. The last election, and the last 3.25 years has completely changed who can do what, and still be considered a viable candidate, and for the worse.  In the lead up the the last election had you said some who said "you can grab em by p#$$%" and "I moved on her like a b&$ch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married." would get elected or be a viable candidate the world of laughed. Uncle Joe sniffing heads is weird as hell, but Trump moving on married women like a b#$tch is equally or more repulsive. The old rules are gone, and no one is paying attention to what is happening behind closed doors because of it. Hence, the actual topic of this thread making progress while all eyes are looking the other way.

I can see how some could think that... Especially living on the west coast. It's quite a bit different sentiment between the coasts if you ask me. I think the only chance the Dems have is via voter fraud, which unfortunately is a very legitimate threat, further legitimized by the Dems staunch opposition to voter Id laws often based on the flimsiest of pretenses. Black people can't make it to the DMV? Gimme a break, that's the most racist thing I've ever heard! Just saying, if you've got dead relatives in a Democrat run state you might want to check if they voted posthumously, and how many times!

This isn't a matter of thinking anything, and doesn't have anything to do with living on the West Coast. I'm not even saying Trump won't win. Are you saying that people between the coasts think it not normal to sniff hair, but is normal (and therefore nothing has changed) to move on a married woman like a b$%ch? I actually think Trump wins this, and agree that Biden is a terrible candidate.

On the voter fraud thing, don't believe all the propaganda you've been getting fed. The Heritage Foundation, which is a major conservative think tank, has a fairly detailed database around voter fraud. It is found in every state, not just dem states. More importantly, they have documented a whopping 1,277 total cases in the U.S. That is an infinitesimally small percentage of the billions of votes cast over the years. I'm guessing you'll counter with "but ballot harvesting! We have to stop mail in balloting" since that is all the rage in the propaganda machine now. The only significant fraud case involving ballot harvesting was committed by a North Carolina GOP operative. I vote Republican when the candidate is right btw. I am just willing to acknowledge that both sides seed their base with a lot of disinformation. Voter fraud is one of them. What Dems are saying is that voter fraud isn't actually a problem (which is backed up by the conservatives own data as pointed out here), and that these laws will disenfranchise voters. Why are we making it harder to vote to solve for a problem that doesn't exist?

Nah... My thoughts on voter fraud revolve around common sense, and understanding human nature. If there aren't safeguards in place to prevent abusing the system... people are going to abuse the system. Do you really think the honor system is the best way to go about electing officials? Every devolped western nation and most of the third world have a voter ID system. It's just common sense.

Yea I'd have to look at those heritage foundation numbers again but my recollection is when you spread out the voter fraud cases over all the elections covered, the number was extremely small. It's a fun right wing talking point, however, they never seem to want to discuss the actual numbers (and the fact that those numbers also came from a conservative think tank).

Do you have any idea what the burden of proof for voter fraud is? It is nearly impossible to prove. So the numbers are skewed.

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[OutHouse]

With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?

So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

All of this stuff doesn't matter anymore. No matter what side you tend to vote. The last election, and the last 3.25 years has completely changed who can do what, and still be considered a viable candidate, and for the worse.  In the lead up the the last election had you said some who said "you can grab em by p#$$%" and "I moved on her like a b&$ch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married." would get elected or be a viable candidate the world of laughed. Uncle Joe sniffing heads is weird as hell, but Trump moving on married women like a b#$tch is equally or more repulsive. The old rules are gone, and no one is paying attention to what is happening behind closed doors because of it. Hence, the actual topic of this thread making progress while all eyes are looking the other way.

I can see how some could think that... Especially living on the west coast. It's quite a bit different sentiment between the coasts if you ask me. I think the only chance the Dems have is via voter fraud, which unfortunately is a very legitimate threat, further legitimized by the Dems staunch opposition to voter Id laws often based on the flimsiest of pretenses. Black people can't make it to the DMV? Gimme a break, that's the most racist thing I've ever heard! Just saying, if you've got dead relatives in a Democrat run state you might want to check if they voted posthumously, and how many times!

This isn't a matter of thinking anything, and doesn't have anything to do with living on the West Coast. I'm not even saying Trump won't win. Are you saying that people between the coasts think it not normal to sniff hair, but is normal (and therefore nothing has changed) to move on a married woman like a b$%ch? I actually think Trump wins this, and agree that Biden is a terrible candidate.

On the voter fraud thing, don't believe all the propaganda you've been getting fed. The Heritage Foundation, which is a major conservative think tank, has a fairly detailed database around voter fraud. It is found in every state, not just dem states. More importantly, they have documented a whopping 1,277 total cases in the U.S. That is an infinitesimally small percentage of the billions of votes cast over the years. I'm guessing you'll counter with "but ballot harvesting! We have to stop mail in balloting" since that is all the rage in the propaganda machine now. The only significant fraud case involving ballot harvesting was committed by a North Carolina GOP operative. I vote Republican when the candidate is right btw. I am just willing to acknowledge that both sides seed their base with a lot of disinformation. Voter fraud is one of them. What Dems are saying is that voter fraud isn't actually a problem (which is backed up by the conservatives own data as pointed out here), and that these laws will disenfranchise voters. Why are we making it harder to vote to solve for a problem that doesn't exist?

Nah... My thoughts on voter fraud revolve around common sense, and understanding human nature. If there aren't safeguards in place to prevent abusing the system... people are going to abuse the system. Do you really think the honor system is the best way to go about electing officials? Every devolped western nation and most of the third world have a voter ID system. It's just common sense.

Yea I'd have to look at those heritage foundation numbers again but my recollection is when you spread out the voter fraud cases over all the elections covered, the number was extremely small. It's a fun right wing talking point, however, they never seem to want to discuss the actual numbers (and the fact that those numbers also came from a conservative think tank).

Do you have any idea what the burden of proof for voter fraud is? It is nearly impossible to prove. So the numbers are skewed.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

In criminal court it'd proof beyond a reasonable doubt. However, where is the evidence of voter fraud cases that were not proven? You'd think the conservative think tank would have raised those to say it is more rampant but unproven. I don't know if they dealt with that or not to be honest.

[nwmein199]

https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Change-in-Pebble-preferred-alternative-shifts-access-rights-to-mine-opponents-570755761.html

Meateater podcast brought up good points recently about this mine. This salmon fishery is the largest salmon run in the world, we need to protect mother natures largest regenerating food supplies (maybe comes in handy during global pandemic when food supply is an issue).

If a mine if put here, then no where is off limits in the US...bad news!!

[nwmein199]

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/alaska-pebble-mine-bristol-bay/

[nwmein199]

Another step closer to putting the mine in....

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/05/28/in-showdown-over-pebble-mine-epa-blinks/

“Today’s decision … gives us more reason to believe that there will be no veto,” Pebble CEO Tom Collier said in a written statement. “This is consistent with our observation that
(the Corps) and EPA, and the other cooperating agencies, have been working well together to resolve all outstanding issues.”

[lokidog]

 

[OutHouse]

This is total BS. I feel that sportsmen of all types are against this.

[nwmein199]

Everyone is against this mine except a couple billionaires.

In 2014, the project was halted because an EPA study found that it would cause "complete loss of fish habitat due to elimination, dewatering, and fragmentation of streams, wetlands, and other aquatic resources" in some areas of Bristol Bay. The agency invoked a rarely used provision of the Clean Water Act that works like a veto, effectively banning mining on the site.

Pebble mining owners kept suing the EPA until they got their way and the EPA dropped the clean water act: https://www.juniorminingnetwork.com/junior-miner-news/press-releases/987-tsx/ndm/32327-northern-dynasty-minerals-pebble-partnership-reaches-settlement-with-us-environmental-protection-agency.html

On 7/30/2020 EPA formally withdraws determination from 2014 https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-withdraws-outdated-preemptive-proposed-determination-restrict-use-pebble-deposit

https://www.nationalfisherman.com/alaska/bait-and-switch-pebble-mine-plan-scales-up-with-no-public-input

[nwmein199]

POTUS sure has done a 180 on this mine since this post was started....here is the EO to put Pebble Mine in!! Notice there is a part of this EO that does NOT allow public comments for projects at all. Imagine if that was the case for Pebble mine...that's what's holding it up was public input so just remove that part and the billionaires can put mines whenever they want in the US!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-executive-order-to-waive-environmental-reviews-permitting-infrastructure-projects.amp

[throwingsticks]

 

Just one example of why the EPA actually has a need to be around.

I agree, but given the current leadership and flip flopping I wouldn't rest easy the mine is dead...

[elkboy]

As I've said before, there could hardly be a worse place for a mine.  As usual, locals (including the tribes there) are going to have to live with the effects of the mine forever, long after the profits wind up in offshore bank accounts.  It's just the wrong thing in the wrong place, threatening a resource that produces tremendous revenue every year (one of the last best fisheries on the whole planet). 

[IFunk]

I hope this doesn't go through.  I'm sure it would be more devastating than damming the mighty Elwah.  Doesn't help that the POTUS choice to  head the EPA was a fossil fuel lobbyist. 

[nwmein199]

"The world’s most controversial mine is up for a significant permit. Here’s why critics say they shouldn’t get it and what you can do about it"

https://www.fieldandstream.com/story/fishing/battle-over-pebble-mine-hitting-a-major-turning-point/

[nwmein199]

https://cei.org/blog/epa-removes-one-hurdle-alaska%E2%80%99s-pebble-mine-others-remain

[throwingsticks]

I hope this doesn't go through.  I'm sure it would be more devastating than damming the mighty Elwah.  Doesn't help that the POTUS choice to  head the EPA was a fossil fuel lobbyist.

Totally, I would never bet on Trump doing the right thing for the environment over completing industry interests.