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Author Topic: Year round Bull Elk season  (Read 10374 times)

Offline Taco280AI

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2021, 06:02:33 PM »
I choose to do what I can. I improve the habitat I own, 8,000 trees planted, three water sources created, hundreds of gallons of noxious weed killer sprayed each year, limit harvest on my property, aggressively predator hunt and limit vehicle traffic in spring when calves and fawns are being born.

Do I wish some natives were more concerned about the resource? Yes but I focus my time and energy on what I can change and I can see my efforts paying off every year.

 :tup:

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2021, 06:53:47 PM »
ďHuntingĒ unlimited game by treaty or poaching unlimited game by non natives, it boils down to lack of ethics or care for the resource. Itís really a matter of being a piece of *censored* or not. It doesnít matter if you do it legally or not. If youíre willing to continually drop animals for profit or negligent personal gain, over and over and over again, karma will find you. The treaty will never change, and the non native poaching will never change(why would it, you literally canít get in trouble). All we can do is teach our youth to respect the resource. Prosecution wonít get more strict, simply the opposite. If you spend any time up in the colockum, you see both. You also have the choice to take the matter into your own hands. Be creative. I can assure you wdfw wonít do *censored* unless you hand them a closed and shut case, and even thenÖ
:tup:
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Offline Rainier10

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2021, 10:26:42 PM »
Just went back to the beginning post.

I think in 2021 there probably shouldnít be unlimited harvest by one user group.

I think all user groups should work together to manage the resource for a sustainable population.

I agree 100% with Idaho guy that the tribe could make some good money while improving the recreational hunting for all user groups.

Unfortunately Iím not sure that will happen but it would be great if it did.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

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The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Platensek-po

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2021, 11:10:57 PM »
Exactly multiple deer and elk a week for two years and he gets house arrest monitoring.  That's one guy responsible for hundreds of animals poached.

How many others are out there only taking a couple deer or elk a year?  How many farmers are taking a few deer and elk that are eating their crops and giving them to their friends and family?  How many spike by two elk or how many 2 point deer are being  shot and snuck out of the woods or left to rot?

And are those guys worried about prosecution?  It is only a slap on the wrist for hundreds of deer and elk. What could they possibly do to a farmer who shoots 4 deer and 3 elk a year on his property that are damaging his crops?

I am here to say it is a huge problem.

You have the natives that have treaty rights saying they can harvest what they want.

At the same time you have non natives poaching knowing it is illegal but also knowing if they get caught nothing significant is going to happen to them.  If something significant happened to them you would fix half of the problem, the half that you legally have control over.

Unfortunately you have people complaining about the half that you have no control over and doing nothing about the half that you can control.
Like I said before people have this attitude because native or not there are certain people who will rape the resource till itís gone. And using the wolf and fox analogy again, keeping the wolves out of the chicken house does no good when the fox is let in. So that is why people keep bringing up natives, because if we do away with all non native poaching(another major issue that needs to be heavily prosecuted)we still have a major 2 legged predator that may or may not be  decimating our elk and deer herds because there is no way to track or regulate them. Let them hunt but if the natives want anything left to hunt they better wake up and start issuing tags, even if they can get a ton of them, at least they will have numbers to make decisions off of to help the herd. Now all that matters is if there is a jerky order to fill or not. If tags are required wdfw can now enforce, even if it is to see that they have tags for the velvet bulls they are killing in June. Yes thatís right I said it, off the Rez be held accountable by our police, much like when we are on the Rez. Donít know whatís stopping me from throwing a native pride hat on and killing anything anytime because I canít say  Iíve ever seen wdfw checking for validation of tribe and hunting rights, unless they just know them all by name and vehicle description so there is no need to contact. I would be concerned about this if I care about the resource and was native.  I would want wdfw making sure I was legit and there wasnít a bunch of us non native people slaying elk with Yakama nation bumper stickers.
So you think the number one priority is to revise the treaty and take away the natives rights, put rules in place for them to follow before we enforce the rules that are already in place for non natives and are being broken by non natives on a regular basis at an alarming rate?

How do you think you are going to enforce these new rules and limits you put on native harvest if you already can't enforce the rules that are in place for non natives?
   

   I dont think we should change treaties or try and dictate rules for tribes they are sovereign nations. With that said what some of these tribal members are doing is absurd and wanton waste of a very valuable renewable resource. There are tribes selling elk tags to white guys for 20k and up because they manage their game. They require an enrolled member to guide you on your overpriced elk tag providing valuable employment to tribal members.  It would be good for the tribes AND everyone else if they cooperated with state wildlife agencies and actually managed the herds for a better future. Most importantly it would be WAY better for those elk herds. You are right I cant control the abuse but I wont condone it either . The tribal hunting discussed here has no affect on me at all but its wrong in todays world of more people and less habitat. Just because I have a right does not mean I should exercise it. I have lots of rights I choose not to exercise because doing so is a bad idea.  Truth matters and saying "I cant control it" so I will deflect the blame at other bad actors will not solve the problem. You have to speak up and address the problem and encourage the tribe to come to the table with other state wildlife agencies. It is better for the tribe,every other hunter and most importantly the ELK. Some of these posts seem to have some kind of white "guilt"  or whatever you want to call it. Call a spade a spade and address the problem-ignoring it because you dont want to offend some group is not the answer. Address all the problems-tribal over harvest,poaching and predators and your elk might stand a chance.  Or you can ignore it and focus on 1 or 2 of the other issues and your elk are screwed.If nothing changes at least you can tell your grandkids you tried not that you just ignored it because you had no "control". You have a voice and I am not talking about bashing anyone. Actually controlling harvest BENEFITS the tribe more than anyone since they have the most opportunity to actually hunt the elk.

Sure. I also grew up with guys whose favorite saying was ďclosed waters are the best watersĒ, and poached deer like crazy with crossbows from their pickups. Some had lost fishing and hunting privileges and still did it. I was young and thought they were cool. Now I think they were just dumb crooks who basically never got
Punished and didnít care. So if you arenít going to punish the people who wantonly break the laws how are you going to encourage people who have the right to do it to
Stop? Basically the government has told them they donít care and arenít going to protect the resource, many on here say the same. So how can you come to the table and say you need to stop
Legally harvesting these animals but we are unwilling to stop
Illegal harvest?
   

Wow you grew up with some real losers  :chuckle: I said address ALL the problems. I doubt poaching takes anywhere near unlimited tribal harvest but doesnít matter what I think. You can address ALL the problems or you can focus on one exclusively and you will be guaranteed to fail. The elk lose

Oh for sure. Those guys were losers. But you know what. They are still out there fishin closed waters and poaching animals. Cause year after year nothing happens to them. Itís just one of those situations where if you live in a glass house... props to rainier10 for fighting the good fight and doing the right thing and setting a great example.
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If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline Buckhunter24

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2021, 04:01:03 AM »
Exactly multiple deer and elk a week for two years and he gets house arrest monitoring.  That's one guy responsible for hundreds of animals poached.

How many others are out there only taking a couple deer or elk a year?  How many farmers are taking a few deer and elk that are eating their crops and giving them to their friends and family?  How many spike by two elk or how many 2 point deer are being  shot and snuck out of the woods or left to rot?

And are those guys worried about prosecution?  It is only a slap on the wrist for hundreds of deer and elk. What could they possibly do to a farmer who shoots 4 deer and 3 elk a year on his property that are damaging his crops?

I am here to say it is a huge problem.

You have the natives that have treaty rights saying they can harvest what they want.

At the same time you have non natives poaching knowing it is illegal but also knowing if they get caught nothing significant is going to happen to them.  If something significant happened to them you would fix half of the problem, the half that you legally have control over.

Unfortunately you have people complaining about the half that you have no control over and doing nothing about the half that you can control.
Like I said before people have this attitude because native or not there are certain people who will rape the resource till itís gone. And using the wolf and fox analogy again, keeping the wolves out of the chicken house does no good when the fox is let in. So that is why people keep bringing up natives, because if we do away with all non native poaching(another major issue that needs to be heavily prosecuted)we still have a major 2 legged predator that may or may not be  decimating our elk and deer herds because there is no way to track or regulate them. Let them hunt but if the natives want anything left to hunt they better wake up and start issuing tags, even if they can get a ton of them, at least they will have numbers to make decisions off of to help the herd. Now all that matters is if there is a jerky order to fill or not. If tags are required wdfw can now enforce, even if it is to see that they have tags for the velvet bulls they are killing in June. Yes thatís right I said it, off the Rez be held accountable by our police, much like when we are on the Rez. Donít know whatís stopping me from throwing a native pride hat on and killing anything anytime because I canít say  Iíve ever seen wdfw checking for validation of tribe and hunting rights, unless they just know them all by name and vehicle description so there is no need to contact. I would be concerned about this if I care about the resource and was native.  I would want wdfw making sure I was legit and there wasnít a bunch of us non native people slaying elk with Yakama nation bumper stickers.
So you think the number one priority is to revise the treaty and take away the natives rights, put rules in place for them to follow before we enforce the rules that are already in place for non natives and are being broken by non natives on a regular basis at an alarming rate?

How do you think you are going to enforce these new rules and limits you put on native harvest if you already can't enforce the rules that are in place for non natives?
   

   I dont think we should change treaties or try and dictate rules for tribes they are sovereign nations. With that said what some of these tribal members are doing is absurd and wanton waste of a very valuable renewable resource. There are tribes selling elk tags to white guys for 20k and up because they manage their game. They require an enrolled member to guide you on your overpriced elk tag providing valuable employment to tribal members.  It would be good for the tribes AND everyone else if they cooperated with state wildlife agencies and actually managed the herds for a better future. Most importantly it would be WAY better for those elk herds. You are right I cant control the abuse but I wont condone it either . The tribal hunting discussed here has no affect on me at all but its wrong in todays world of more people and less habitat. Just because I have a right does not mean I should exercise it. I have lots of rights I choose not to exercise because doing so is a bad idea.  Truth matters and saying "I cant control it" so I will deflect the blame at other bad actors will not solve the problem. You have to speak up and address the problem and encourage the tribe to come to the table with other state wildlife agencies. It is better for the tribe,every other hunter and most importantly the ELK. Some of these posts seem to have some kind of white "guilt"  or whatever you want to call it. Call a spade a spade and address the problem-ignoring it because you dont want to offend some group is not the answer. Address all the problems-tribal over harvest,poaching and predators and your elk might stand a chance.  Or you can ignore it and focus on 1 or 2 of the other issues and your elk are screwed.If nothing changes at least you can tell your grandkids you tried not that you just ignored it because you had no "control". You have a voice and I am not talking about bashing anyone. Actually controlling harvest BENEFITS the tribe more than anyone since they have the most opportunity to actually hunt the elk.

Sure. I also grew up with guys whose favorite saying was ďclosed waters are the best watersĒ, and poached deer like crazy with crossbows from their pickups. Some had lost fishing and hunting privileges and still did it. I was young and thought they were cool. Now I think they were just dumb crooks who basically never got
Punished and didnít care. So if you arenít going to punish the people who wantonly break the laws how are you going to encourage people who have the right to do it to
Stop? Basically the government has told them they donít care and arenít going to protect the resource, many on here say the same. So how can you come to the table and say you need to stop
Legally harvesting these animals but we are unwilling to stop
Illegal harvest?
   

Wow you grew up with some real losers  :chuckle: I said address ALL the problems. I doubt poaching takes anywhere near unlimited tribal harvest but doesnít matter what I think. You can address ALL the problems or you can focus on one exclusively and you will be guaranteed to fail. The elk lose

Oh for sure. Those guys were losers. But you know what. They are still out there fishin closed waters and poaching animals. Cause year after year nothing happens to them. Itís just one of those situations where if you live in a glass house... props to rainier10 for fighting the good fight and doing the right thing and setting a great example.

Maybe you can collect 10 points sounds like you know where to start looking  :dunno:

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2021, 04:31:51 AM »
 :yeah:
ďIn common withĒ..... not so much!!

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2021, 05:07:09 AM »
Just went back to the beginning post.

I think in 2021 there probably shouldnít be unlimited harvest by one user group.

I think all user groups should work together to manage the resource for a sustainable population.

I agree 100% with Idaho guy that the tribe could make some good money while improving the recreational hunting for all user groups.

Unfortunately Iím not sure that will happen but it would be great if it did.
 

 :tup:

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2021, 05:09:07 AM »
Exactly multiple deer and elk a week for two years and he gets house arrest monitoring.  That's one guy responsible for hundreds of animals poached.

How many others are out there only taking a couple deer or elk a year?  How many farmers are taking a few deer and elk that are eating their crops and giving them to their friends and family?  How many spike by two elk or how many 2 point deer are being  shot and snuck out of the woods or left to rot?

And are those guys worried about prosecution?  It is only a slap on the wrist for hundreds of deer and elk. What could they possibly do to a farmer who shoots 4 deer and 3 elk a year on his property that are damaging his crops?

I am here to say it is a huge problem.

You have the natives that have treaty rights saying they can harvest what they want.

At the same time you have non natives poaching knowing it is illegal but also knowing if they get caught nothing significant is going to happen to them.  If something significant happened to them you would fix half of the problem, the half that you legally have control over.

Unfortunately you have people complaining about the half that you have no control over and doing nothing about the half that you can control.
Like I said before people have this attitude because native or not there are certain people who will rape the resource till itís gone. And using the wolf and fox analogy again, keeping the wolves out of the chicken house does no good when the fox is let in. So that is why people keep bringing up natives, because if we do away with all non native poaching(another major issue that needs to be heavily prosecuted)we still have a major 2 legged predator that may or may not be  decimating our elk and deer herds because there is no way to track or regulate them. Let them hunt but if the natives want anything left to hunt they better wake up and start issuing tags, even if they can get a ton of them, at least they will have numbers to make decisions off of to help the herd. Now all that matters is if there is a jerky order to fill or not. If tags are required wdfw can now enforce, even if it is to see that they have tags for the velvet bulls they are killing in June. Yes thatís right I said it, off the Rez be held accountable by our police, much like when we are on the Rez. Donít know whatís stopping me from throwing a native pride hat on and killing anything anytime because I canít say  Iíve ever seen wdfw checking for validation of tribe and hunting rights, unless they just know them all by name and vehicle description so there is no need to contact. I would be concerned about this if I care about the resource and was native.  I would want wdfw making sure I was legit and there wasnít a bunch of us non native people slaying elk with Yakama nation bumper stickers.
So you think the number one priority is to revise the treaty and take away the natives rights, put rules in place for them to follow before we enforce the rules that are already in place for non natives and are being broken by non natives on a regular basis at an alarming rate?

How do you think you are going to enforce these new rules and limits you put on native harvest if you already can't enforce the rules that are in place for non natives?
   

   I dont think we should change treaties or try and dictate rules for tribes they are sovereign nations. With that said what some of these tribal members are doing is absurd and wanton waste of a very valuable renewable resource. There are tribes selling elk tags to white guys for 20k and up because they manage their game. They require an enrolled member to guide you on your overpriced elk tag providing valuable employment to tribal members.  It would be good for the tribes AND everyone else if they cooperated with state wildlife agencies and actually managed the herds for a better future. Most importantly it would be WAY better for those elk herds. You are right I cant control the abuse but I wont condone it either . The tribal hunting discussed here has no affect on me at all but its wrong in todays world of more people and less habitat. Just because I have a right does not mean I should exercise it. I have lots of rights I choose not to exercise because doing so is a bad idea.  Truth matters and saying "I cant control it" so I will deflect the blame at other bad actors will not solve the problem. You have to speak up and address the problem and encourage the tribe to come to the table with other state wildlife agencies. It is better for the tribe,every other hunter and most importantly the ELK. Some of these posts seem to have some kind of white "guilt"  or whatever you want to call it. Call a spade a spade and address the problem-ignoring it because you dont want to offend some group is not the answer. Address all the problems-tribal over harvest,poaching and predators and your elk might stand a chance.  Or you can ignore it and focus on 1 or 2 of the other issues and your elk are screwed.If nothing changes at least you can tell your grandkids you tried not that you just ignored it because you had no "control". You have a voice and I am not talking about bashing anyone. Actually controlling harvest BENEFITS the tribe more than anyone since they have the most opportunity to actually hunt the elk.

Sure. I also grew up with guys whose favorite saying was ďclosed waters are the best watersĒ, and poached deer like crazy with crossbows from their pickups. Some had lost fishing and hunting privileges and still did it. I was young and thought they were cool. Now I think they were just dumb crooks who basically never got
Punished and didnít care. So if you arenít going to punish the people who wantonly break the laws how are you going to encourage people who have the right to do it to
Stop? Basically the government has told them they donít care and arenít going to protect the resource, many on here say the same. So how can you come to the table and say you need to stop
Legally harvesting these animals but we are unwilling to stop
Illegal harvest?
   

Wow you grew up with some real losers  :chuckle: I said address ALL the problems. I doubt poaching takes anywhere near unlimited tribal harvest but doesnít matter what I think. You can address ALL the problems or you can focus on one exclusively and you will be guaranteed to fail. The elk lose

Oh for sure. Those guys were losers. But you know what. They are still out there fishin closed waters and poaching animals. Cause year after year nothing happens to them. Itís just one of those situations where if you live in a glass house... props to rainier10 for fighting the good fight and doing the right thing and setting a great example.

Maybe you can collect 10 points sounds like you know where to start looking  :dunno:
 

 :yeah: why donít you turn them in ?

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2021, 09:58:41 AM »
There is a lot to consider when turning in a poacher.  Each of us have to make that decision for ourselves.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #84 on: June 22, 2021, 10:01:20 AM »
Thread cleaned up a bit.  Advocating or promoting illegal activity is against forum rules.

Please try to keep this civil and within forum rules.

There is some good discussion and so far we have been able to keep this on the open forum for all to see including non members.  Let's try to keep it here.  The more eyes on this topic the better.  It stimulates conversation and thought on a very sensitive topic.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Platensek-po

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2021, 10:31:18 AM »
Exactly multiple deer and elk a week for two years and he gets house arrest monitoring.  That's one guy responsible for hundreds of animals poached.

How many others are out there only taking a couple deer or elk a year?  How many farmers are taking a few deer and elk that are eating their crops and giving them to their friends and family?  How many spike by two elk or how many 2 point deer are being  shot and snuck out of the woods or left to rot?

And are those guys worried about prosecution?  It is only a slap on the wrist for hundreds of deer and elk. What could they possibly do to a farmer who shoots 4 deer and 3 elk a year on his property that are damaging his crops?

I am here to say it is a huge problem.

You have the natives that have treaty rights saying they can harvest what they want.

At the same time you have non natives poaching knowing it is illegal but also knowing if they get caught nothing significant is going to happen to them.  If something significant happened to them you would fix half of the problem, the half that you legally have control over.

Unfortunately you have people complaining about the half that you have no control over and doing nothing about the half that you can control.
Like I said before people have this attitude because native or not there are certain people who will rape the resource till itís gone. And using the wolf and fox analogy again, keeping the wolves out of the chicken house does no good when the fox is let in. So that is why people keep bringing up natives, because if we do away with all non native poaching(another major issue that needs to be heavily prosecuted)we still have a major 2 legged predator that may or may not be  decimating our elk and deer herds because there is no way to track or regulate them. Let them hunt but if the natives want anything left to hunt they better wake up and start issuing tags, even if they can get a ton of them, at least they will have numbers to make decisions off of to help the herd. Now all that matters is if there is a jerky order to fill or not. If tags are required wdfw can now enforce, even if it is to see that they have tags for the velvet bulls they are killing in June. Yes thatís right I said it, off the Rez be held accountable by our police, much like when we are on the Rez. Donít know whatís stopping me from throwing a native pride hat on and killing anything anytime because I canít say  Iíve ever seen wdfw checking for validation of tribe and hunting rights, unless they just know them all by name and vehicle description so there is no need to contact. I would be concerned about this if I care about the resource and was native.  I would want wdfw making sure I was legit and there wasnít a bunch of us non native people slaying elk with Yakama nation bumper stickers.
So you think the number one priority is to revise the treaty and take away the natives rights, put rules in place for them to follow before we enforce the rules that are already in place for non natives and are being broken by non natives on a regular basis at an alarming rate?

How do you think you are going to enforce these new rules and limits you put on native harvest if you already can't enforce the rules that are in place for non natives?
   

   I dont think we should change treaties or try and dictate rules for tribes they are sovereign nations. With that said what some of these tribal members are doing is absurd and wanton waste of a very valuable renewable resource. There are tribes selling elk tags to white guys for 20k and up because they manage their game. They require an enrolled member to guide you on your overpriced elk tag providing valuable employment to tribal members.  It would be good for the tribes AND everyone else if they cooperated with state wildlife agencies and actually managed the herds for a better future. Most importantly it would be WAY better for those elk herds. You are right I cant control the abuse but I wont condone it either . The tribal hunting discussed here has no affect on me at all but its wrong in todays world of more people and less habitat. Just because I have a right does not mean I should exercise it. I have lots of rights I choose not to exercise because doing so is a bad idea.  Truth matters and saying "I cant control it" so I will deflect the blame at other bad actors will not solve the problem. You have to speak up and address the problem and encourage the tribe to come to the table with other state wildlife agencies. It is better for the tribe,every other hunter and most importantly the ELK. Some of these posts seem to have some kind of white "guilt"  or whatever you want to call it. Call a spade a spade and address the problem-ignoring it because you dont want to offend some group is not the answer. Address all the problems-tribal over harvest,poaching and predators and your elk might stand a chance.  Or you can ignore it and focus on 1 or 2 of the other issues and your elk are screwed.If nothing changes at least you can tell your grandkids you tried not that you just ignored it because you had no "control". You have a voice and I am not talking about bashing anyone. Actually controlling harvest BENEFITS the tribe more than anyone since they have the most opportunity to actually hunt the elk.

Sure. I also grew up with guys whose favorite saying was ďclosed waters are the best watersĒ, and poached deer like crazy with crossbows from their pickups. Some had lost fishing and hunting privileges and still did it. I was young and thought they were cool. Now I think they were just dumb crooks who basically never got
Punished and didnít care. So if you arenít going to punish the people who wantonly break the laws how are you going to encourage people who have the right to do it to
Stop? Basically the government has told them they donít care and arenít going to protect the resource, many on here say the same. So how can you come to the table and say you need to stop
Legally harvesting these animals but we are unwilling to stop
Illegal harvest?
   

Wow you grew up with some real losers  :chuckle: I said address ALL the problems. I doubt poaching takes anywhere near unlimited tribal harvest but doesnít matter what I think. You can address ALL the problems or you can focus on one exclusively and you will be guaranteed to fail. The elk lose

Oh for sure. Those guys were losers. But you know what. They are still out there fishin closed waters and poaching animals. Cause year after year nothing happens to them. Itís just one of those situations where if you live in a glass house... props to rainier10 for fighting the good fight and doing the right thing and setting a great example.

Maybe you can collect 10 points sounds like you know where to start looking  :dunno:
 

 :yeah: why donít you turn them in ?
Who says I havenít? These guys know all game wardens on a first name basis and have had their licenses revoked yet are still out there. I havenít seen these guys in like 15 yrs either. They do in and out of jail likes itís their second home. Last time I talked to a sheriff about them he just said ďyeah we know but we will wait till we can nail them for something stronger. Canít revoke their licenses a second time.Ē These were dudes I knew through working construction a long time ago. I remember one of them was out fishing in his jet boat with an ankle bracelet on. Nothing says house arrest like fishin on a river right?
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Offline idaho guy

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #86 on: June 22, 2021, 11:02:33 AM »
 Its kind of shocking to hear about all this rampant poaching going on in Washington. I have mainly hunted Idaho and Montana my whole life and I don't really know of anyone that even wants to poach or would consider it. The few I know that got pinched were honest mistakes and the game warden gave them NO leniency. To the point I felt it was unjustified. I will take your word for it but where I hunt they cant wait to write a ticket even when it probably doesn't make common sense. The difference  is pretty baffling. Sounds like you cant get them to do anything and we have a bunch of Barney Fifes just living to write tickets. Maybe between the 2 states we could get some officers in the middle  :chuckle: I don't know  maybe we have some big time poaching going on around here and I just dont know about it. 

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #87 on: June 22, 2021, 11:07:20 AM »
Exactly multiple deer and elk a week for two years and he gets house arrest monitoring.  That's one guy responsible for hundreds of animals poached.

How many others are out there only taking a couple deer or elk a year?  How many farmers are taking a few deer and elk that are eating their crops and giving them to their friends and family?  How many spike by two elk or how many 2 point deer are being  shot and snuck out of the woods or left to rot?

And are those guys worried about prosecution?  It is only a slap on the wrist for hundreds of deer and elk. What could they possibly do to a farmer who shoots 4 deer and 3 elk a year on his property that are damaging his crops?

I am here to say it is a huge problem.

You have the natives that have treaty rights saying they can harvest what they want.

At the same time you have non natives poaching knowing it is illegal but also knowing if they get caught nothing significant is going to happen to them.  If something significant happened to them you would fix half of the problem, the half that you legally have control over.

Unfortunately you have people complaining about the half that you have no control over and doing nothing about the half that you can control.
Like I said before people have this attitude because native or not there are certain people who will rape the resource till itís gone. And using the wolf and fox analogy again, keeping the wolves out of the chicken house does no good when the fox is let in. So that is why people keep bringing up natives, because if we do away with all non native poaching(another major issue that needs to be heavily prosecuted)we still have a major 2 legged predator that may or may not be  decimating our elk and deer herds because there is no way to track or regulate them. Let them hunt but if the natives want anything left to hunt they better wake up and start issuing tags, even if they can get a ton of them, at least they will have numbers to make decisions off of to help the herd. Now all that matters is if there is a jerky order to fill or not. If tags are required wdfw can now enforce, even if it is to see that they have tags for the velvet bulls they are killing in June. Yes thatís right I said it, off the Rez be held accountable by our police, much like when we are on the Rez. Donít know whatís stopping me from throwing a native pride hat on and killing anything anytime because I canít say  Iíve ever seen wdfw checking for validation of tribe and hunting rights, unless they just know them all by name and vehicle description so there is no need to contact. I would be concerned about this if I care about the resource and was native.  I would want wdfw making sure I was legit and there wasnít a bunch of us non native people slaying elk with Yakama nation bumper stickers.
So you think the number one priority is to revise the treaty and take away the natives rights, put rules in place for them to follow before we enforce the rules that are already in place for non natives and are being broken by non natives on a regular basis at an alarming rate?

How do you think you are going to enforce these new rules and limits you put on native harvest if you already can't enforce the rules that are in place for non natives?
   

   I dont think we should change treaties or try and dictate rules for tribes they are sovereign nations. With that said what some of these tribal members are doing is absurd and wanton waste of a very valuable renewable resource. There are tribes selling elk tags to white guys for 20k and up because they manage their game. They require an enrolled member to guide you on your overpriced elk tag providing valuable employment to tribal members.  It would be good for the tribes AND everyone else if they cooperated with state wildlife agencies and actually managed the herds for a better future. Most importantly it would be WAY better for those elk herds. You are right I cant control the abuse but I wont condone it either . The tribal hunting discussed here has no affect on me at all but its wrong in todays world of more people and less habitat. Just because I have a right does not mean I should exercise it. I have lots of rights I choose not to exercise because doing so is a bad idea.  Truth matters and saying "I cant control it" so I will deflect the blame at other bad actors will not solve the problem. You have to speak up and address the problem and encourage the tribe to come to the table with other state wildlife agencies. It is better for the tribe,every other hunter and most importantly the ELK. Some of these posts seem to have some kind of white "guilt"  or whatever you want to call it. Call a spade a spade and address the problem-ignoring it because you dont want to offend some group is not the answer. Address all the problems-tribal over harvest,poaching and predators and your elk might stand a chance.  Or you can ignore it and focus on 1 or 2 of the other issues and your elk are screwed.If nothing changes at least you can tell your grandkids you tried not that you just ignored it because you had no "control". You have a voice and I am not talking about bashing anyone. Actually controlling harvest BENEFITS the tribe more than anyone since they have the most opportunity to actually hunt the elk.

Sure. I also grew up with guys whose favorite saying was ďclosed waters are the best watersĒ, and poached deer like crazy with crossbows from their pickups. Some had lost fishing and hunting privileges and still did it. I was young and thought they were cool. Now I think they were just dumb crooks who basically never got
Punished and didnít care. So if you arenít going to punish the people who wantonly break the laws how are you going to encourage people who have the right to do it to
Stop? Basically the government has told them they donít care and arenít going to protect the resource, many on here say the same. So how can you come to the table and say you need to stop
Legally harvesting these animals but we are unwilling to stop
Illegal harvest?
   

Wow you grew up with some real losers  :chuckle: I said address ALL the problems. I doubt poaching takes anywhere near unlimited tribal harvest but doesnít matter what I think. You can address ALL the problems or you can focus on one exclusively and you will be guaranteed to fail. The elk lose

Oh for sure. Those guys were losers. But you know what. They are still out there fishin closed waters and poaching animals. Cause year after year nothing happens to them. Itís just one of those situations where if you live in a glass house... props to rainier10 for fighting the good fight and doing the right thing and setting a great example.

Maybe you can collect 10 points sounds like you know where to start looking  :dunno:
 

 :yeah: why donít you turn them in ?
Who says I havenít? These guys know all game wardens on a first name basis and have had their licenses revoked yet are still out there. I havenít seen these guys in like 15 yrs either. They do in and out of jail likes itís their second home. Last time I talked to a sheriff about them he just said ďyeah we know but we will wait till we can nail them for something stronger. Canít revoke their licenses a second time.Ē These were dudes I knew through working construction a long time ago. I remember one of them was out fishing in his jet boat with an ankle bracelet on. Nothing says house arrest like fishin on a river right?
   

 Thats a bummer-but if you have not seen them in 15 years how do you know they are still actively poaching?   

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #88 on: June 22, 2021, 11:10:19 AM »
Its kind of shocking to hear about all this rampant poaching going on in Washington. I have mainly hunted Idaho and Montana my whole life and I don't really know of anyone that even wants to poach or would consider it. The few I know that got pinched were honest mistakes and the game warden gave them NO leniency. To the point I felt it was unjustified. I will take your word for it but where I hunt they cant wait to write a ticket even when it probably doesn't make common sense. The difference  is pretty baffling. Sounds like you cant get them to do anything and we have a bunch of Barney Fifes just living to write tickets. Maybe between the 2 states we could get some officers in the middle  :chuckle: I don't know  maybe we have some big time poaching going on around here and I just dont know about it.

I've witnessed spotlighting in N Idaho multiple times but who knows how much it stacks up alongside Washington. I'd guess there is a lot of illegal take in Idaho, particularly if baiting is taken into account.
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Re: Year round Bull Elk season
« Reply #89 on: June 22, 2021, 11:39:02 AM »
Have had multiple experiences coming across Native Americans with Bulls in the back of their pickups during the spring and summer. Just happened again last weekend. A buddy ran into a pickup with a 3 point bull loaded up. They said itís open year round for anything with visible antlers. Our experience discussing this with the wardens felt more like they were annoyed with us talking about it then having any issues with it. Just doesnít seem right here in 2021. What say you?
It is pretty simple...they have a treaty right to hunt and a state warden has no jurisdiction over them. 

I agree with the comments espousing the win-win scenario for greater cooperation between tribal and state wildlife managers; but I understand Tribes that aren't all that eager to work with a state that is both incompetent and has a long history of screwing Tribes and refusing to recognize their rights. 

The other 800lb gorilla in the room that never gets talked about...a lot of the habitat destruction and degradation which has an enormous effect on the quantity of fish and game available to harvest has disproportionately benefited non-tribal members (or been at the hands of non-tribal members)...so its a bit tough to ask them to significantly reduce their harvest when such actions have caused them the most harm while getting the least benefit.  :twocents:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

 


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