End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help

[WSU]

Yes, this thread is about commercial fishing... that said, why should they be banned, if the other nets in the river will just get the fish ??   

IF we are not going to ban ALL gill netting, then there is not one shred of a good idea here...

I told you why above.  The tribes won't catch more fish when the nets are gone.  Your statement regarding "if the other nets in river will just get the fish" is completely baseless.  The fact that you have seen practices by some Indians that you disagree with appears to blind you to the reality of what is going on.

[JimmyHoffa]

this is turning into something that it shouldnt, and since it is i will add my 2 cents on this part.....round eyes DO NOT net the puyallup but i know who does and its disgusting, makes me friggin sick to see what is being done there, if you saw it piannoman i have NOOOOO DOUBT, that you would be disgusted as well..... we are off thread by a long shot now.....

I'm not sure the thread is off topic...I think you are stating the very reason for this possible ban.  I don't think the grumblings of sporties against well regulated white man nets in the Columbia are what's behind this.  The few that still do it, take a small amount of the harvest and I think they have a very short season.  All the pissed off people all over the west aren't pressuring CCA and politicians and contributing lots of money against these few commies.  I think it is an attempt to start the ball rolling on what really is getting everyone upset--the indians.  Many guys I know don't even bother to fish anymore on days when nets are in, all other conditions can be perfect...but the one that makes a good day of fishing into just a scenic drift.

[singleshot12]

I just ran across this thread and haven't read it but my comment for now is it would be a start if gillnetting was banned on the Columbia, with hopefully other rivers to follow. Salmon should be considered just like any other wildlife and NEVER be sold for profit!

[Huntbear]

Yes, this thread is about commercial fishing... that said, why should they be banned, if the other nets in the river will just get the fish ??   

IF we are not going to ban ALL gill netting, then there is not one shred of a good idea here...

I told you why above.  The tribes won't catch more fish when the nets are gone.  Your statement regarding "if the other nets in river will just get the fish" is completely baseless.  The fact that you have seen practices by some Indians that you disagree with appears to blind you to the reality of what is going on.

Yes they will still get their share....   right now it is a 3 way drawing.. take the commercial guys out, it is a 2 way battle..  Last time I checked 50% is more than 33%

AND any wanton waste of resources is enough to turn me off to anybody and their "PRACTICES"   Have you ever pulled into the rest area just east of Hood River and smelled the rotting fish?? 

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

I guess if you are trying to rebuild depressed stock of fish netting every last one of them is a good idea right?

Sportsmen catch what? 1 or 2 out of a school of fish moving up river at a time. How many does a net take??? How many native fish die in a net? How many die on a line? A ton less. The fish has a choice to hit your offering or not. SO some days they are biting and some days they are not.

All the fish that the public need can be caught in the ocean and they are. Or they are caught in the S.A.F.E. zones. We do not need non selective nets in the mainstem anymore.

[Huntbear]

I guess if you are trying to rebuild depressed stock of fish netting every last one of them is a good idea right?

Sportsmen catch what? 1 or 2 out of a school of fish moving up river at a time. How many does a net take??? How many native fish die in a net? How many die on a line? A ton less. The fish has a choice to hit your offering or not. SO some days they are biting and some days they are not.

All the fish that the public need can be caught in the ocean and they are. Or they are caught in the S.A.F.E. zones. We do not need non selective nets in the mainstem anymore.

Could not agree more.. BUT, will not back or agree to any ban on commercial nets as long as the Native nets stay in the river...  Why should I?  The commercial fleet inside the mouth of the river, take far fewer fish than the natives do from Bonneville all the way to what?  Canada?

[JimmyHoffa]

Could not agree more.. BUT, will not back or agree to any ban on commercial nets as long as the Native nets stay in the river...  Why should I? 

I think it is part of the overall strategy.  They ban the commie nets in the Columbia then the commie nets in the sound, finally they can say no whites are allowed to use nets, so inidans shouldn't either.  As long as there are whites using the nets somewhere around the area they lose leverage against the indians.

[fishcrazy]

I hate nets just as much as anyone. But to pull the gill nets out won't do anything positive for wild fish, the economy or sportsmen. As was stated in other post the sport season and take is set by impacts to ESA fish.

Banning gill nets will force them to harvest their fish with more wild fish friendly methods. They will then be able to harvest far more fish before they reach their kill rate on Wilds. That leaves sport fishers with far fewer fish.

Anyone who thinks you are going to get more fish by pushing the commercials aside is nuts. Nowhere does it say fish are to be managed for sport harvest. Only for commercial harvest.

Until simple laws are changed like the way seasons are set with ESA impacts and managing fish for sport harvest all this talk about banning nets tribal or not is just hurting us.

On another note I have read several studies comparing a salmon caught by a commi or sport and the sport caught fish pump far more money into the economy. One article said that sport fisherman state wide can pump near 4billion into the state economy annually. Figured the price of trucks, boats, gas, gear, motels, guides.
Very few if any commercial fishers make their living at it. Its a second income and much of it goes overseas and don't support jobs at home.

Kris

[runamuk]

You guys are missing a very important point on all this about the salmon.

The Natives are now taking over the Hatcheries, one at a time.  They will control the fish, so they will control the fishery.  Mark my words, it will happen.  They could care less about sportfishermen, or commercial fishermen.   Just how much salmon THEY can net...  I have been fishing at Drano, while the Natives sit and drink beer and laugh and make jokes about the stupid white man, having to use a line and a hook to catch a fish...  later they get to put their nets into an enclosed area, and catch everything that swims... 

I heard one native bragging he makes about 5K a night netting at Drano during the Springer season...   

So it IS all about the money... HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT RITUALS, OR FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES.....  It is all about the money, plain and simple...

HB, this is a too broad sweep of the pen. Last year, the DFW announced that a budget shortfall would necessitate the elimination of a million smoults of coho from a hatchery on the Ho. The Quinaults stepped up with $10K to keep the hatchery open at full capacity, remaining under the direction of the state. The are other instances of where this tribe and others are shown to be good stewards of our resources without ulterior motives.

the ulterior motive is their annual catch  without the hatcheries they have no fish to catch and sell so they lose revenue, the state basically got out of the hatchery business a few years back and the only private industry that was ready and able to take over was the Tribes.  universities and colleges have canned their wildlife biology/management and fisheries programs and the environmental movement has convinced  everyone that netting is bad but fresh wild salmon is better than farmed fish.  The wild foods movement right now is huge with more and more people revolting against the gma and feedlot/hormone/antibiotic farmed animals and foods.  I doubt the market for fresh wild salmon will decrease any time soon. 

[Heartsblood]

Yes, let's make sure all the runs go extinct. At least you will feel like you didn't get screwed which of course is waaaaay more important than the lives of the fish. Don't do the right thing because it's the right thing. Do the wrong thing because......"Those people are doing it!"

The mentality: If they're doing damaging practice, well by god, I'm gonna do it too unless they stop!

 

[pianoman9701]

Yes, let's make sure all the runs go extinct. At least you will feel like you didn't get screwed which of course is waaaaay more important than the lives of the fish. Don't do the right thing because it's the right thing. Do the wrong thing because......"Those people are doing it!"

The mentality: If they're doing damaging practice, well by god, I'm gonna do it too unless they stop!

 

  I don't get it, either. It has to start somewhere. It might as well start with us.

[Curly]

Yes, let's make sure all the runs go extinct. At least you will feel like you didn't get screwed which of course is waaaaay more important than the lives of the fish. Don't do the right thing because it's the right thing. Do the wrong thing because......"Those people are doing it!"

The mentality: If they're doing damaging practice, well by god, I'm gonna do it too unless they stop!

 

  I don't get it, either. It has to start somewhere. It might as well start with us.

 

[motg9_6]

ever pull a native gill net out of the water for curiosity??? IT WILL MAKE YOU SICK!!! dead fish native and hatchery. Commercial netters arent the problem they are pulling nets timely because thats there source of income and they also have more strict regualtions. native nets however dont get pulled timely. i lived along the river for several years and have watched them pull there nets out with dead rotten fish in them, ive found MULTIPLE LARGE coolers on my property that were dumped by natives full of fish that was just wasted.
im sure this post will stir all kinds of controversy but the truth is the truth.

[pianoman9701]

ever pull a native gill net out of the water for curiosity??? IT WILL MAKE YOU SICK!!! dead fish native and hatchery. Commercial netters arent the problem they are pulling nets timely because thats there source of income and they also have more strict regualtions. native nets however dont get pulled timely. i lived along the river for several years and have watched them pull there nets out with dead rotten fish in them, ive found MULTIPLE LARGE coolers on my property that were dumped by natives full of fish that was just wasted.
im sure this post will stir all kinds of controversy but the truth is the truth.

We've really been over this topic now about 100 times. Natives this, commercial that. I see lots of excuses to not start with ourselves "because of someone else". "All or nothing". "This has to be fair." No, it doesn't have to be fair and it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

The real question remains: what are we willing to do about this which is unconditional and not depending upon the support of others? It CAN start with a little to lead to a lot eventually. Sometimes, when someone looks bad enough in the light of someone else's sacrifice, they're spurred to action, even if through nothing else than shame. What's it gonna be?

[motg9_6]

one thing you guys arent thinking about is what will really happen when all white man netting is gone. the indians will get it all!!! guaranteed. they alow so much netting if 50 percent of that netting goes away whey cant the natives catch more?(thats the mentality) wa state gave them fish hatcheries because they cried that the fish population was down.
dont get me wrong im not pro nets but to think that the white commericial pumps nothing into the economy is pathetic. think about all the people who dont want to eat hatchery fish, they pay big money to go out to dinner ( gas, movies, blabla bla etc.) the effect is the same as the owner of a gas station thats making the same dollar as a commercial guy and  puts it right in his pocket.
they may not have as big a dollar figure as sportfisherman because they are outnumber over a 1000 to one with higher regualtions. think about how much the one part time commerical business provides and compare that to one sportsman that fishes once a month or even twice a month.