Quality and Antlerless

[jkononen]

Is there anybody on here who has drawn for both antlerless and quality in the same year?  Just wondering how often that might happen.  Anybody have the same fear of drawing two permits and losing all your points for a category??

[BLUEBULLS]

I drew "Bull" and antlerless. kinda sucks but I'll take it. Luckily I killed a bull or I might feel a little different.

[fishngamereaper]

I drew antlerless elk and quality deer and couple years ago.. ....but the fear of two elk permits is always there but its part of the game. If you are in the 4-5 points range for antlerless you may want to hold off on bull tags or do ghost points for antlerless till your get your bull. 

[trophyhunt]

I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.

[bobcat]

I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags.

I agree it probably happens fairly often. But it's not quite correct to think that if you draw a low number, it will increase your odds of getting multiple permits. The random numbers are assigned separately for each category you apply in. So a low number in one category has no influence on your chance of drawing a permit in another category.

As another post stated, it's just a part of the "game." Take the risk if you want and apply for hunts in more than one category per species. Or play it safe and apply for only the point option in some categories.

It isn't necessarily a waste of a permit if you draw a cow elk hunt and a bull elk hunt in the same year. You can still use both permits, as long as you don't use your tag on the first hunt.

It might make sense to apply for a cow hunt that has a later season than the bull hunt you applied for. That way you can hunt the bull permit first, and use the cow permit as a backup if you're not successful in killing a bull.

[TommyGun496]

I drew a toutle bull tag and a yale cow tag last muzzy season.  I ate the cow tag and I am eating the bull!

[Antlershed]

My dad drew Toutle quality and Margaret antlerless in 2011.

[Bob33]

 2 > 0. More hunting is a problem I can live with.

[Cascade]

Last year I drew a "bull" and antlerless. 

[Southpole]

I drew a quality deer unit 448 and antlerless in a handfull of  Northeast units (I can't remember which ones) with only a 1 point each... whoops, I didn't notice this was in the elk category, my bad.

[Mr Mykiss]

I drew Quality and Antlerless with 5 points for both. I know a guy last year that drew Quality and didn't draw Antlerless last year with 10 points for both. It's a crap shoot!!

[Antlershed]

I have 16 points in quality and bull. I would hate to lose my points in both categories, but I also know that my odds suck even with that many points. Not sure whether I will apply in both categories or just one.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

I drew Quality and antlerless last year. I applied with my son for antlerless so we had 9 points as a partnership.

[mossyoak arrow slinger]

I drew quality bull and antlerless in the toutle two three years ago. It was nice being able to shoot any elk that stepped in front of me

[bobcat]

I drew quality bull and antlerless in the toutle two three years ago. It was nice being able to shoot any elk that stepped in front of me

So what did you end up shooting?

[Red Leg]

Drew a Margaret antlerless elk and Skookumchuck quality deer a few couple years ago.
Filled both tags.

[steeleywhopper]

I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.

This is the exact reason why I think they should let the person who draws two special permits buy a extra tag and try to harvest both animals. Nothing wrong with that in my book. Whats the difference if Joe Schmoe with two permits shoots two animals or 2 different Joe Schmoes with 1 special permit each shoot the two animals. We have all been playing the game long enough they ought to let us do it.

[bobcat]

I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.

This is the exact reason why I think they should let the person who draws two special permits buy a extra tag and try to harvest both animals. Nothing wrong with that in my book. Whats the difference if Joe Schmoe with two permits shoots two animals or 2 different Joe Schmoes with 1 special permit each shoot the two animals. We have all been playing the game long enough they ought to let us do it.

I disagree. Odds of drawing are already bad as it is. The disincentive for applying in more than one category for the same species is that you will "waste"  your points and only get to make use of one of the permits that you drew.

Don't want to waste points? Then don't take the risk of applying in multiple categories for the same species.

[swwaoutdoorsman]

I think the hunter should get to choose one permit, then have second raffle for unsuccessful applicants. 

[Mr Mykiss]

I think the hunter should get to choose one permit, then have second raffle at $5 a pop for unsuccessful applicants. 

There I fixed it for you. Now maybe WDFW will bite...

[rtspring]

Its all about money for the state!!! 

[elkslayer069]

2 yeara ago dad and i both wastes 9pts for antlerless but both filled our quality tags

[dvolmer]

two years ago my daughter drew her quality Blue Creek Big bull tag and her bull permit to observatory in the same year.  Great that you get a great tag but sad in that you blow all of your points and can only get one animal and not be able to return one of the permits so someone else can have a great hunt too.

[Mfowl]

I would like to see a secondary draw or "runner up" draws in case someone double draws and doesn't want to use one of the tags or lose their points. I guess that would be too accomodating for our game dept.

[winshooter88]

People who put in for elk permits in more than one category in the same year, do it hoping that if they don't get drawn on one, they will get drawn on the other. You know when you put in that it is possible to get drawn on one, two or even three categories. If you don't want to lose points by drawing more than one permit then only put in for one category. You only get one tag per year and we all know it. If you get drawn in more than one category learn to live with it, you made the choice to put in for more than one category in the same year. Why should get bailed out by getting an extra tag or getting your points back? No one made you take the chance.

[bobcat]

I like it fine the way it is. What I dislike most of all is change. Once the system is set up I'd rather they leave it alone and let people get used to it.

The only reason the possibility of drawing two permits is really an issue is because so many people were unfairly given points in categories in which they did not earn them. Many people had as many as 14 points in 2010 when the WDFW invented all the new categories.

These people had obviously accumulated that many points by applying for the best bull permits available. Other people who were happy with just drawing a cow permit every couple of years, got screwed royally by the state when they decided to take a person's elk points and give them that same number of points in each of the new categories. So people who had never applied for a cow permit instantly had 14 points in the antlerless elk category.

These are the people who are now most at risk of drawing a permit in more than one elk category in the same year, and they have the most to lose. So please let's not make any suggestions to the WDFW to make any more unfair changes. It shouldn't take 10 to 12 points to draw a cow tag. But it does. That is proof that the system is screwed up. But the only way to fix it is for all these people with a high number of points to draw a permit and clear out their points. So let them draw a permit that they can't or won't use. That is what we need to get the point system back to normal.

I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.

[steeleywhopper]

People who put in for elk permits in more than one category in the same year, do it hoping that if they don't get drawn on one, they will get drawn on the other. You know when you put in that it is possible to get drawn on one, two or even three categories. If you don't want to lose points by drawing more than one permit then only put in for one category. You only get one tag per year and we all know it. If you get drawn in more than one category learn to live with it, you made the choice to put in for more than one category in the same year. Why should get bailed out by getting an extra tag or getting your points back? No one made you take the chance.

Im sure this is aimed at me and im fine with that. I am pissed that tags go to waste when most of us have been playing this game for so many years. Yea, I know, no one forced me to play it, but darn it. If I want to shoot big bulls or cows in Eastern Washington I have to play into the draw abortion. (My hunting unit)
  Personally I don't put in for more than one elk permit due to the fact that I can only use one of the permits if drawn. It will be a cold day in heck before I burn hard earned points on special permits I cant use. I got crap ton of money invested in this system and it irks the crap out of me when I see opportunities wasted.

[steeleywhopper]

I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.

Amen to that!

[winshooter88]

Steely, It wasn't pointed at anybody in particular. This topic comes up a lot from time to time and many more people than you have made similar comments. Is the system perfect, no. Will WDFW mess it up more trying to fix it, most likely. Be careful what you wish for.

[Scottystyle]

  Ive been lucky enough to draw "not selected" in all categories for years now     

[RadSav]

I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.

Amen to that!

I think I agree with that.  A few years ago I got drawn for my first ever WDFW permit tag in 20 years - An archery Toutle cow!!!   Then I go and shoot a nice bull in the general tag area second day of the season.  Was absolutely thrilled to actually draw something in this state!  But, I could not have been happier to waste my antlerless points on a bull.  I generally only put in for a single unit so if I get another cow tag some day and a bull tag in the same year I'm still sitting pretty sweet

Only thing I might want to see change in the rules is the maximum number in a group for deer and elk.  I say cut it in half at least and let the tags spread out a little bit.  Eight people in a single group    I'm surprised how many big groups I see getting drawn each year while I'm crying and thowing my annual tempertantrum.

[Antlershed]

These people had obviously accumulated that many points by applying for the best bull permits available.

Not necessarily. I had 13 points when they made the split and at least half of them were gained by just applying for ghost points the years I couldn't hunt. Last year i couldn't even draw Margaret archery with 15 points. I did take advantage of the split and used 13 points on a cow tag, but I don't think it was a good change they made in 2010.

[elkoholicmike]

A better question. Has anybody here ever drawn anything in the state of Washington. The subject draws out the giggles in my house. Good luck one and all anyway.

[Bullkllr]

I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.

The "flaw" was when they rolled points into all categories when this draw system began.
Guys that got 10 points per category were given a serious windfall bonus (and huge long-term advantage in drawing any permits). That's why it takes 5-10 points to draw a cow tag now, wheras before you could get one every couple years if you wanted one.

Payment for that gift is being smart about which hunts/categories you put in for.

[rtspring]

I would agree on lowering the Cow tag groups to max of 4 per group!

[Curly]

I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.

Amen to that!

 

[Curly]

I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.

The "flaw" was when they rolled points into all categories when this draw system began.
Guys that got 10 points per category were given a serious windfall bonus (and huge long-term advantage in drawing any permits). That's why it takes 5-10 points to draw a cow tag now, wheras before you could get one every couple years if you wanted one.

Payment for that gift is being smart about which hunts/categories you put in for.

[bobcat]

These people had obviously accumulated that many points by applying for the best bull permits available.

Not necessarily. I had 13 points when they made the split and at least half of them were gained by just applying for ghost points the years I couldn't hunt. Last year i couldn't even draw Margaret archery with 15 points. I did take advantage of the split and used 13 points on a cow tag, but I don't think it was a good change they made in 2010.

Well the point is you didn't get all the points by applying for cow tags. Yet they awarded you 13 points in the antlerless elk category just because it was the easiest way for them to do it.

[ghosthunter]

One of my buddies got antherless deer, disabled and over 65. He filled one, eat the other.

[Bwana Bob]

Why not pick 10 alternates each for the deer and elk permits and let the hunter that drew two tags turn one in. Then hold a random draw for those tags and some lucky alternate hunter will have a tag. Makes sense to me. I drew an alternate tag for sheep once. I almost pissed my pants when I got that letter from the game dept.

[Roperfive88]

I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.

Amen to that!

I think I agree with that.  A few years ago I got drawn for my first ever WDFW permit tag in 20 years - An archery Toutle cow!!!   Then I go and shoot a nice bull in the general tag area second day of the season.  Was absolutely thrilled to actually draw something in this state!  But, I could not have been happier to waste my antlerless points on a bull.  I generally only put in for a single unit so if I get another cow tag some day and a bull tag in the same year I'm still sitting pretty sweet

Only thing I might want to see change in the rules is the maximum number in a group for deer and elk.  I say cut it in half at least and let the tags spread out a little bit.  Eight people in a single group    I'm surprised how many big groups I see getting drawn each year while I'm crying and thowing my annual tempertantrum.

 The bigger groups is usually a disadvantage to the group because is lowers the number of tags they can draw. As anyone heard of a big group drawinq really good tags. If you put in with 8 people for a quality tag that has only nine tags they can only draw on the first two so I am guessing that this happens very little. I think that big groups actually help the single hunters odds when you look strictly at the numbers. The biggest group that I have seen where I hunt has been three. So if a bunch of people go in on one entry I say let them.

[TommyGun496]

A better question. Has anybody here ever drawn anything in the state of Washington. The subject draws out the giggles in my house. Good luck one and all anyway.

Drew a toutle bull tag last year with two points...does that count?

[sakoshooter]

Is there anybody on here who has drawn for both antlerless and quality in the same year?  Just wondering how often that might happen.  Anybody have the same fear of drawing two permits and losing all your points for a category??

A buddy of mine's hunting partner drew both last year. Cow tag and Any Bull tag. What a waste.

[mossyoak arrow slinger]

I drew quality bull and antlerless in the toutle two three years ago. It was nice being able to shoot any elk that stepped in front of me

So what did you end up shooting?

Sorry i just saw this. I ended up shooting a cow!  I had a chance at a real nice bull the day Weyerhauser decided to close the woods. Got on him in the morning finally got a shot and choked. He was quartering away from me between two trees I thought I had a window and was sadly wrong. That after noon we got back to our truck and Weyerhauser land was closed