Left over tag drawing for Wa

[Chuck83]

As for the leftover tags I think if you draw a cow tag and a bull tag you get to kill one elk. If it dont gey your bull then you can fill your cow tag. Maybe half or more of the St. Helens cow tag won't be able to be used.

[TMortensen]

TMortenson,  That's wrong. The average points of the people who drew those permits is just that. It doesn't mean EVERY person with that number of points will draw.

Part of my post got cut off when I was editing it and I didn't realize it.

But I was also saying that these are just averages and don't neccesarily mean it will be that way for everyone. a great example is this year I put in for a Big bend archery buck tag, the average draw was 8pts and I drew it with 4, so right there my 4pts threw off the average.
 But I've been really successful drawing permits since the new system went into place a few years ago and have been able to draw either a deer tag or elk tag each year all my first choice of hunts too.
Maybe Im lucky IDK but if you watch the average draw and your in that average you have a pretty good chance to draw.

[Bob33]

TMortenson,  That's wrong. The average points of the people who drew those permits is just that. It doesn't mean EVERY person with that number of points will draw.

Part of my post got cut off when I was editing it and I didn't realize it.

But I was also saying that these are just averages and don't neccesarily mean it will be that way for everyone. a great example is this year I put in for a Big bend archery buck tag, the average draw was 8pts and I drew it with 4, so right there my 4pts threw off the average.
 But I've been really successful drawing permits since the new system went into place a few years ago and have been able to draw either a deer tag or elk tag each year all my first choice of hunts too.
Maybe Im lucky IDK but if you watch the average draw and your in that average you have a pretty good chance to draw.

That's not necessarily true at all. Here's an example. The Dayton rifle elk tag had "average points" of 11 in 2012. There were 12 permits and about 1500 applicants.  Odds of drawing one of the permits with 11 points would be about 2.5%.

"Average points" are about as useful as "average age" or "average height" of the successful applicants, which is to say basically useless. If you want to know your odds, you need to look at the actual number of applicants and how many points they had. For the 2012 Dayton permit, there were 56,667 names in the hat for the 12 permits. If you had 11 points, you would have 121 of the 56,667 names.

[huntnphool]

Wouldn't it be easier if WDFW just amended their system to only issue one permit in the event that a individual drew two? I mean who would know at that point?

Seems to me it would be a lot more cost effective than creating a new system or completely revamping the current one.

[TMortensen]

TMortenson,  That's wrong. The average points of the people who drew those permits is just that. It doesn't mean EVERY person with that number of points will draw.

Part of my post got cut off when I was editing it and I didn't realize it.

But I was also saying that these are just averages and don't neccesarily mean it will be that way for everyone. a great example is this year I put in for a Big bend archery buck tag, the average draw was 8pts and I drew it with 4, so right there my 4pts threw off the average.
 But I've been really successful drawing permits since the new system went into place a few years ago and have been able to draw either a deer tag or elk tag each year all my first choice of hunts too.
Maybe Im lucky IDK but if you watch the average draw and your in that average you have a pretty good chance to draw.

That's not necessarily true at all. Here's an example. The Dayton rifle elk tag had "average points" of 11 in 2012. There were 12 permits and about 1500 applicants.  Odds of drawing one of the permits with 11 points would be about 2.5%.

"Average points" are about as useful as "average age" or "average height" of the successful applicants, which is to say basically useless. If you want to know your odds, you need to look at the actual number of applicants and how many points they had. For the 2012 Dayton permit, there were 56,667 names in the hat for the 12 permits. If you had 11 points, you would have 121 of the 56,667 names.

I'm just going off of my personal experience and what Ive done. and with the 121 entry to the 56667 entry now divide that 121/56667/12 gives you a 1 and 39 chance of drawing probably the most coveted tag in the state.

[Chuck83]

There is not any elk in blues anyways

[trophyhunt]

Wouldn't it be easier if WDFW just amended their system to only issue one permit in the event that a individual drew two? I mean who would know at that point?

Seems to me it would be a lot more cost effective than creating a new system or completely revamping the current one.

I agree with this also, it would make it fine to put in for all the catagories but the first tag you draw puts you out of the rest of the drawings. No draw, no loss of points. This is a great idea!

[trophyhunt]

There is not any elk in blues anyways

You are correct, they only let some out for the raffle guys during the season!!

[Odiewon]

I'm preparing a write-up to submit to WDFW. They should start the draw (each species separate) process with Quality apps first, then Bull (or Buck), then antlerless, and so on. Once a person is drawn, that person is removed from any draws further down the line. Example, you put in for a Quality Bull and an Anterless Elk. If you're drawn for the Quality bull, you are removed from consideration for further elk draws. Eliminates the 2 tag situation, which occurs more often than we think. Leaves the 'second' tag available for another hunter. I'm still putting the finishing touches on mu proposed regulation change for submittal for hunting season 2015. By the way, we had a guy in our party draw a Quality bull in Goose Prairie(GMU's 352, 356), AND an antlerless permit for Bumping (GMU 356). He tagged his big bull and the antlerless tag was wasted. Some other hunter could have had that tag under my proposal.

Comments? Suggestions?

[jackmaster]

I'm preparing a write-up to submit to WDFW. They should start the draw (each species separate) process with Quality apps first, then Bull (or Buck), then antlerless, and so on. Once a person is drawn, that person is removed from any draws further down the line. Example, you put in for a Quality Bull and an Anterless Elk. If you're drawn for the Quality bull, you are removed from consideration for further elk draws. Eliminates the 2 tag situation, which occurs more often than we think. Leaves the 'second' tag available for another hunter. I'm still putting the finishing touches on mu proposed regulation change for submittal for hunting season 2015. By the way, we had a guy in our party draw a Quality bull in Goose Prairie(GMU's 352, 356), AND an antlerless permit for Bumping (GMU 356). He tagged his big bull and the antlerless tag was wasted. Some other hunter could have had that tag under my proposal.

Comments? Suggestions?

good luck with your letter i honestly think that the wdfw uses this as another managment tool, if a person draws two tags they gotta pick one and the other tag goes to waste, well in there eyes they look atn it as money in their pocket and another elk that wont get taken by a sportsman, or wolf either way they are happy about it   

[idahohuntr]

I'm preparing a write-up to submit to WDFW. They should start the draw (each species separate) process with Quality apps first, then Bull (or Buck), then antlerless, and so on. Once a person is drawn, that person is removed from any draws further down the line. Example, you put in for a Quality Bull and an Anterless Elk. If you're drawn for the Quality bull, you are removed from consideration for further elk draws. Eliminates the 2 tag situation, which occurs more often than we think. Leaves the 'second' tag available for another hunter. I'm still putting the finishing touches on mu proposed regulation change for submittal for hunting season 2015. By the way, we had a guy in our party draw a Quality bull in Goose Prairie(GMU's 352, 356), AND an antlerless permit for Bumping (GMU 356). He tagged his big bull and the antlerless tag was wasted. Some other hunter could have had that tag under my proposal.

Comments? Suggestions?

I think you've got a good idea.  Send in your comments and address them to Dave Ware.

[bearpaw]

I'm preparing a write-up to submit to WDFW. They should start the draw (each species separate) process with Quality apps first, then Bull (or Buck), then antlerless, and so on. Once a person is drawn, that person is removed from any draws further down the line. Example, you put in for a Quality Bull and an Anterless Elk. If you're drawn for the Quality bull, you are removed from consideration for further elk draws. Eliminates the 2 tag situation, which occurs more often than we think. Leaves the 'second' tag available for another hunter. I'm still putting the finishing touches on mu proposed regulation change for submittal for hunting season 2015. By the way, we had a guy in our party draw a Quality bull in Goose Prairie(GMU's 352, 356), AND an antlerless permit for Bumping (GMU 356). He tagged his big bull and the antlerless tag was wasted. Some other hunter could have had that tag under my proposal.

Comments? Suggestions?

This is a good idea that would provide opportunity to more hunters. 
Depending on WDFW goals with the selection process this may or may not be an option they will like, but I hope it is adopted. 

[Bob33]

I see one flaw in the idea. Assume you purchased muliple applications and applied in multiple categories for a specie such as elk. You draw a quality permit. WDFW discards the other applications you submitted. You've now paid for something (the additional applications) of no value.

If the state has to refund your money, they won't go for it. And there is some value in having two permits: you could hunt for a quality elk, and if you didn't tag one you could have for the antlerless elk.

Taking away the second opportunity that you paid for without compensating you may be the sticking point.

[steeleywhopper]

I see one flaw in the idea. Assume you purchased muliple applications and applied in multiple categories for a specie such as elk. You draw a quality permit. WDFW discards the other applications you submitted. You've now paid for something (the additional applications) of no value.

If the state has to refund your money, they won't go for it. And there is some value in having two permits: you could hunt for a quality elk, and if you didn't tag one you could have for the antlerless elk.

Taking away the second opportunity that you paid for without compensating you may be the sticking point.

No refund, you paid for a preference point.

[Bob33]

I see one flaw in the idea. Assume you purchased muliple applications and applied in multiple categories for a specie such as elk. You draw a quality permit. WDFW discards the other applications you submitted. You've now paid for something (the additional applications) of no value.

If the state has to refund your money, they won't go for it. And there is some value in having two permits: you could hunt for a quality elk, and if you didn't tag one you could have for the antlerless elk.

Taking away the second opportunity that you paid for without compensating you may be the sticking point.

No refund, you paid for a preference point.

No I didn't pay for a preference point. I applied for a specific antlerless hunt, the same as others who paid the same fee that I did.