Left over tag drawing for Wa

[huntnphool]

Does anyone really believe this happens to the extent of any real impact? Most hunters that apply for these hunts have figured it out by now and simply don't take the chance of drawing more than one. Those that have not figured it out, or willingly take the chance and draw two categories simultaneously, well........they have nobody to blame but themselves.

[trophyhunt]

I'm preparing a write-up to submit to WDFW. They should start the draw (each species separate) process with Quality apps first, then Bull (or Buck), then antlerless, and so on. Once a person is drawn, that person is removed from any draws further down the line. Example, you put in for a Quality Bull and an Anterless Elk. If you're drawn for the Quality bull, you are removed from consideration for further elk draws. Eliminates the 2 tag situation, which occurs more often than we think. Leaves the 'second' tag available for another hunter. I'm still putting the finishing touches on mu proposed regulation change for submittal for hunting season 2015. By the way, we had a guy in our party draw a Quality bull in Goose Prairie(GMU's 352, 356), AND an antlerless permit for Bumping (GMU 356). He tagged his big bull and the antlerless tag was wasted. Some other hunter could have had that tag under my proposal.

Comments? Suggestions?

i like the idea, you should tell them how this poll went, over 70% in favor.  Huntphool, I get it as do most that you shouldn't apply for for than one so you don't waste tags.  But this happens every year, and it would be nice to not have or minimize the wasted tags.

[bobcat]

This idea has been brought up many times. I'm not 100% against it but I just really don't want more changes unless they really do make for a big improvement. I don't think this suggested change would improve anything other than it would allow people to more readily apply for a hunt in every category. The number of applicants will go up and odds of drawing will go down. Is that really what we want?

I would prefer to have it go back to the way it was before 2010. But since I know that won't happen, I would rather it just stay the way it is. We were told by the WDFW that this new system would improve draw odds, and it would do so because people would only apply in one category. The idea was that a person who was mostly interested in cow elk hunts (for example) would now only apply for cow elk hunts, because he's not going to spend the extra $14 for a quality elk application.

The way it was before, with only one elk category, people would use their first two or three choices on the application for what is now called a "quality" elk permit, and then the last choice for a cow elk permit. Supposedly the new system would cause this this type of applicant to no longer apply for the quality hunts, so they would now be easier to draw. I don't know if the WDFW really believed that theory or if it was just used to sell the public on the new system.

The biggest problem was the way they distributed the existing points into all the newly created categories. People who had been holding out for only the best "quality" hunts over the years and had accumulated 14 or 15 points, now had those points in ALL categories, including antlerless, which up until now they never applied for antlerless hunts. So now we had people suddenly applying for antlerless deer and elk hunts who had never applied before. AND, these people had lots of points compared to the people who had always applied for and regularly drew antlerless hunts.

With odds of drawing antlerless hunts going down the drain, and quality hunts not gètting any better, people do what they can to improve their odds of simply drawing something, anything, because any special permit hunt is better than a general season hunt. So, people apply in every possible category. And, odds for everything are worse than they were before, even though we were told odds would improve.

As much as I dislike the new system I would prefer that it stay exactly the same. I think it's best to leave it alone and let people become accustomed to it. I think it may actually be somewhat better once a lot of the points get cleared out. And, people with a high number of points drawing multiple permits for the same specie in the same year will do exactly that.

[Todd_ID]

Does anyone really believe this happens to the extent of any real impact? Most hunters that apply for these hunts have figured it out by now and simply don't take the chance of drawing more than one. Those that have not figured it out, or willingly take the chance and draw two categories simultaneously, well........they have nobody to blame but themselves.

You need to amend your post to say that most hunters SHOULD have it figured out by now.  The fact remains that MOST hunters think they SHOULD draw a tag once they reach the average points posted in the regs.  And there're still plenty who think they can get two elk with two special permits.  Because some of us have the way the draw system actually works down pat doesn't mean the average hunter in WA understands much, if any, of it.

[Todd_ID]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the number of permits put out for the drawing is based on statistics.  If the system was changed to get more people who will actually use the permit drawing them, then the number of permits would be reduced almost across the board making that permit approximately as hard or harder to draw than if the system was left alone and the number of permits stayed the same.

[bobcat]

Does anyone really believe this happens to the extent of any real impact? Most hunters that apply for these hunts have figured it out by now and simply don't take the chance of drawing more than one. Those that have not figured it out, or willingly take the chance and draw two categories simultaneously, well........they have nobody to blame but themselves.

You need to amend your post to say that most hunters SHOULD have it figured out by now.  The fact remains that MOST hunters think they SHOULD draw a tag once they reach the average points posted in the regs.  And there're still plenty who think they can get two elk with two special permits.  Because some of us have the way the draw system actually works down pat doesn't mean the average hunter in WA understands much, if any, of it.

Good points Todd, and you're exactly right. That's probably exactly how the average hunter thinks. But that's good in a way. The uninformed will zero out all their points sooner, by drawing multiple permits in the same year that they will be unable to use. Too bad, I say.

And honestly, permits aren't really "wasted." A certain number do go unused but that should be reflected in a lower harvest and success rates which just allows more permits to be issued in the future.

[Bob33]

Having more than one permit doesn't necessarily mean you can't hunt with both.

I've never seen any data, but I suspect that a good percentage of individuals that draw multiple permits for the same specie use them both.

With elk harvest odds around 15% to 20%, there's an 80% chance that the primary permit won't result in harvest.

If you were to draw a Bull permit and a later antlerless permit, there's a good chance both would be used and not "wasted".