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Author Topic: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio  (Read 24850 times)

Offline JLS

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Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« on: January 07, 2014, 04:22:26 PM »
http://www.mtpioneer.com/2014-January-Top-Yellowstone-Expert.html

Top Yellowstone Expert Takes on the Wolf Critics
Speaks to “Non Native Subspecies” Charge and “Surplus Killing”

01/05/14

Recently, the Montana Pioneer spoke with Doug Smith, Yellowstone National Park Wolf Project Leader and Senior Biologist at the Yellowstone Center for Resources, about the nature of the wolves introduced to Yellowstone National Park in 1995, including the “non native subspecies” charge advanced by critics, and about ongoing research on wolves in the park.

 MP: What were the genetic sources of wolves introduced into YNP—where did the existing wolf population originate?

 DS: Forty one wolves were introduced to YNP in 1995. There were 14 in 1995 from Alberta, and 17 in 1996 from British Columbia, and 10 in 1997 from near Choteau, Montana. We have genetic evidence that some of those wolves went on to breed. So, 10 of the wolves that were introduced were from Montana, and 31 were from Canada.

 MP: What were the main characteristics that were different between the wolves from Canada and the wolves that pre-existed here in Yellowstone, say 150 years ago? Is that known?

 DS: Not really. All we have are skulls to judge it from. What we know from studying the skulls are that the wolves are essentially the same. The Canadian wolves were about 7 to 8 percent larger than the pre-existing wolves of Yellowstone. Seven to eight percent is within the variation of size difference found in wolf skulls all over North America, so the difference is statistically insignificant. It is important to compare apples to apples, so-to-speak. Pups and immature animals are smaller, and males are about 20 percent larger than females, at full size. It is important to compare similar age and gender skulls to each other. So comparing the handful of skulls that were preserved here as museum samples with over 150 skulls of wolves that have died here since they were introduced, the skulls are essentially the same, but the ones from Canada are slightly bigger.

Taxonomically (classifying in categories such as genus, species, and subspecies), you get differences between species when there are limitations on their ability to mix genetically. Wolves are stopped by nothing. They will cross mountain ranges, rivers, even pack ice. That's how good this animal is at moving around. So what we have is this constant intermixing of genes that prevents them from becoming really different subspecies. Wolves origin-ated in North America a couple of million years ago. When glaciers connected Alaska and Russia, they crossed over into Russia. They got bigger over there. In the last 600,000 to 700,000 years differently evolved wolves have crossed back to North America in three waves. The remnants of the oldest wave of wolves returning to North America are now the most southern species, and also the smallest, Canis lupus baileyi, the Mexican wolf. The middle wave of evolved wolves returning to this continent from Asia are the gray  wolves we have here now, and the most recent are the largest, the arctic wolves.

 MP: Were the wolves introduced into YNP significantly different physically or behaviorally from the wolves that were here?

 DS: The short answer is no. Wolves are ecological generalists. They can live on a variety of things. We looked for wolves that were previously exposed to bison and elk. The Canadian wolves had a small percentage of bison hair in their scat, but primarily elk and deer hair. We thought that was ideal, as that is the same diet—primarily elk and deer—as we have here. The available wolves from Minnesota had no experience with mountainous terrain or herds of elk or bison. We selected wolves from the same Rocky Mountain ecosystem, with the same kind of prey, to enhance the likelihood of the introduced wolves surviving. I want to clarify the misconception that larger Canadian wolves were preying on smaller American elk [thereby reducing the elk population inordinately]. In fact, the much smaller southwestern Mexican wolf brings down elk. The elk the Mexican wolves prey on in Arizona and New Mexico originally came from Yellowstone, as did the elk in Canada. The optimal number of adult wolves necessary to bring down an elk is only four, but a pair of wolves can also kill an elk.

 MP: We hear reports that there were wolves already in Yellowstone that could have multiplied without reintroduction.

 DS: There were no wolves here when we introduced the current wolves in 1995. There were no specially adapted wolves [as critics have claimed] in Yellowstone that did not run in packs, or use trails or roads, that didn't howl, and that preyed on small prey, unlike the wolves we have now. There has simply never been a wolf recorded anywhere that lives like that. Furthermore, there is no better bird dog for a wolf than a wolf itself. We had radio collars on all 41 wolves we released over a 3-year period. If there were extant wolves already on the landscape, they would have found them. The wolves we released never turned up any other wolves, dead or alive. And by the way, they rarely eat other wolves that they kill.

MP: Wolves killing other wolves is the main cause of wolf deaths in the park, correct?

 DS: Yes, almost half of the 15 YNP wolves that died in 2012 were killed by other wolves. However, for wolves living outside the park, 80 percent of the wolf deaths are caused by humans, mostly by shooting them.

 MP: How many wolves are in YNP now?

 DS: Last year at the end of 2012 there were at least 83 wolves occupying YNP in 10 packs (6 breeding pairs). This is approximately a 15 percent decline from the previous three years when the numbers had stabilized at around 100 wolves. Wolf numbers have declined by about 50 percent since 2007, mostly because of a smaller elk population.

 MP: Would the 1994 population of gray wolves that lived in Montana have naturally recovered, given the protection of the Endangered Species Act?

 DS: That was a big opinion-based debate by wolf biologists at the time, led by Bob Ream of the University of Montana. In his opinion, wolves would have recovered given enough time—50, 60 or 70 years. Other people think they would not have made it. Yellowstone National Park and the five National Forests around it can be likened to a huge island. It's the most impressive wild land we have got in the lower 48, and some people say it's the most impressive temperate zone wild land in the world. But it's got an abrupt boundary to it. I frequently fly over here in an airplane, and at the boundary of a National Forest, it turns into a sea of humanity. And wolves are notoriously bad at getting through seas of humanity. Wolves get shot a lot. When we were dealing with a handful of wolves, maybe 40 to 60, how many of those would have been heading this way? So far, we have not yet documented a wolf coming from northwest Montana into Yellowstone. We have documented them coming from Idaho, but that's a lot closer and the linkages are better, primarily in the Centennial Mountains. Wolves don't do well over huge landscapes dominated by people. By introducing wolves they were legally not a fully protected species under the Endangered Species Act. People wanted to be able to shoot them when they got into livestock, which they could not have done if they were a fully protected species.

 MP: Wolves from Idaho have now invaded the original Glacier National Park wolves, right?

 DS: The Idaho wolf population is now fully connected to the northwest Montana wolf population. Interest-ingly, a study of historic wolf DNA from pelts and skulls shows that over 50 percent of wolf genetic diversity was lost when the continental United States population was reduced to a few hundred wolves in Minnesota. Wolves were the top carnivores in North America. Wolves evolved to adapt to the local conditions, and they will do so again.

 MP: The tapeworm cysts spread by wolves that critics rail about, what risk to humans does this pose?

 DS: The Echinococcus granulo sus tapeworm was already here. Wolves didn't bring it in. The coyotes, foxes and domestic dogs likely had it before wolves. The human health risk from tapeworms is almost nil. If anyone should have Echinococcus tapeworm it's me. I've handled over 500 wolves in my career. I take their temperature with a rectal thermometer. That's where the tapeworm eggs come out. I now wear rubber gloves, but I wash my hands in snow, then eat my lunch. I wouldn't worry much about it.

 MP: What are the primary benefits and disadvantages of having wild ranging wolf packs in the Northern Rockies?

 DS: The simplest way to answer that is that there is no question that wolves made people's lives more complicated, and that's a good reason not to have them. Some people love them, some people hate them, and wolves are a polarizing animal. People have to spend a lot of time dealing with the controversy that comes with wolves. Life is simpler without wolves. I admit that if you are a rancher, having wolves around is worrisome. I understand that it's not just the cows they kill; it's the sleepless nights. I think that's the best argument to not have them.
 What's the ecological value of wolves? I don't know. It's a human dominated world. We control everything. So why do we need wolves? Landscapes look the way they do because of agriculture, forestry, hunting, mining, development—all those things trump things like wolves. So you really don't get huge ecological benefits of wolves outside of National Parks. In National Parks you do. So why have wolves on these huge landscapes where there are people? Good question. The best answer is, because people want them there. You know, there are a lot of people that don't like wolves. There is an equally large number that do like them, because living in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming is unique and different than living in places like Illinois, Iowa and Arkansas. You have grizzly bears, you have wolves, you have cougars. And that brings in a lot of tourism dollars. Wolves and grizzly bears are the two top attractions to Yellowstone. Idaho, Montana and Wyoming are perceived as being pristine, just because of the mere existence of the three large, toothy carnivores. It makes visiting or living here more valuable and a better experience. Economics are more important than ecology when it comes to carnivore populations in Yellowstone National Park.

 Right now, it's as natural as it's ever been in Yellowstone Park. Now we have more predators than we have ever had, which means we have fewer elk, and fewer elk means we have all these other ecological benefits, like beavers and songbirds and fishes, and generally enhanced riparian habitat, because fewer elk means less browsing of riparian habitat. So it's a more balanced ecosystem. We only get that because we have natural densities of carnivores. As soon as you cross the park line, all the densities of those carnivores go down because humans manage them. And that is fine; it's not a criticism. The carnivores are on the landscape. That's the thing that the tourists like, but they are not at their normal densities that would occur if people didn't manage them.

 MP: What about surplus killing by wolves [where, for example, ranchers report wolves killing or maiming a dozen sheep in one night]?

 DS: Surplus killing by wolves doesn't really exist, per-se. We have watched wolves when they have killed more meat than they can immediately consume, and they always come back to finish the carcass unless they are spooked off by people. Hunting success rates for wolves are in the 5 percent to 15 percent range with elk. So they actually get about one in ten of the elk they go after. Eighty five percent to 95 percent of the time, the elk wins, and the wolves get nothing to eat. So, from an evolutionary perspective, if the wolves are not highly motivated to kill whenever they can, they will lose out. Of the 500 wolves I have handled, all across America, in the Midwest, Canada, Alaska, Yellowstone and Idaho, most of them are skinny beneath their beautiful fur. When I have felt their backbones and their pelvises, they usually are skinny. They are just getting by. The prey is better at getting away than the wolves are at killing the prey. So it is so hard to get dinner and when they do get a chance to kill, they kill. That's how you get so-called surplus killing, when the elk are weak and in deep snow, wolves will kill more than they can eat. Also, defenseless sheep will be killed in large numbers because the wolves can do so. But I would argue that if the rancher didn't come out the next day with a rifle, the wolves would eat all those sheep, even if it took them weeks to do so.

 Wolves don't kill for the fun of it, when they are likely to get their head bashed in getting dinner. We have seen 15 or more wolves that have been killed by elk, bison, deer and moose. Wolves are risk averse. They don't want to try to kill something that's going to get their head bashed in or their stomach kicked in, but when it's easy, they will kill more than they can immediately eat, but those circumstances crop up pretty rarely. The wolves always cycle back to finish the carcass.

 MP: What is the effect of wolves on the coyote population?

 DS: Wolves kill coyotes when they approach wolf kills. Pre wolf-introduction, coyotes were living in packs in YNP, and that's something that's unusual. When there are wolves around, the coyotes pretty much live in pairs. Coyotes love coming in and stealing from wolves, and that got them killed. According to unpublished research, supposedly the coyote population dropped in half after the wolf introduction. Over 90 percent of the coyotes that are documented as being killed by wolves have been killed at wolf kill sites—they over estimated the wolves being meat drunk. So the coyotes quit running in packs, and went back to living in pairs, and became more wary around carcasses. The coyotes supposedly socially adapted to wolves, and their population went back to pre-wolf levels. This research is incomplete and inconclusive, but fascinating.

 MP: Thank you, Doug. We appreciate this opportunity to present knowledge you have gained over the years about wolves, and at the same time address some of the contro-versies.

 DS: Wolves are troublesome and controversial. I understand that. A lot of people don't like them, but a lot of people do like them, and they make money for a lot of people. What I am really after is to get as good a quality of information out there as possible, to help the debate to be a little bit better.  The extreme anti-wolf person and the extreme pro-wolf person are always going to be problematic; they are never going to be happy. But this big group of people in the middle can come together on more than they think. If we can get an established group of facts about wolves correctly understood, I do think we can make progress in treating wolves just like any other animal, like a cougar, like a bear, like an elk. Sometimes and in some places their numbers need to be cut back, and just like any other form of wildlife, they need to be scientifically managed.

Interview conducted by Quincy Orhai for the Montana Pioneer.
Matthew 7:13-14

Offline WSU

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2014, 04:34:47 PM »
Interesting read.  Thanks for posting.

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2014, 04:37:57 PM »
Thanks for posting that, it's a pretty well balanced piece.

 
Quote
So, from an evolutionary perspective, if the wolves are not highly motivated to kill whenever they can, they will lose out.

He doesn't gloss over the fact that wolves and domestic livestock do not mix.  Nothing in my opinion has changed, I agree with pretty much all of it. 


I'll go back and read it again, and maybe come up with a few more points.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2014, 05:11:50 PM »
Thanks for posting that, it's a pretty well balanced piece.
:yeah:  :yike:  :chuckle:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline villageidiot

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2014, 05:30:25 PM »
This guy is pretty much right except he doesn't say much about how the wolves are moving into the areas outside the parks into ranch and farm land, not into cities where people want them.  So the ranchers are making the total sacrifice of their livestock and livlihoods for the city folks that want them with no compensation for their loss.  The compensation that is offered is a joke and might as well be abandoned.  Until the ranchers are compensated 100% for their loss they will hate them.  If you and you alone are forced to support the local food bank with 10 or 20% of you paycheck and nobody else in town is forced to then you develop a hate for the local food bank because you can't afford to support them all by yourself.  If every body helped out you would not dislike the food bank so much. 
Some ideas that would make the rancher support the wolves
!. every trail camera picture he can get that he can prove was on his place pay him 50 bucks because he's providing habitat
2.every animal that has wolf teeth marks on it pay him 500 bucks
3. every animal that is killed by wolves give him 2,000 bucks
4.every wolf track he can take a picture of a week from the last track he took one of he gets 10 bucks because he's providing habitat.
5. every picture he can get with a non-trail camera give him another 100 bucks

If these things are done he will invite the wolves onto his place.   This money needs to come right out the taxpayers pot plain and simple.  If they want wolves let them pay equally for the habitat the rancher is providing instead of just him alone.

Offline pd

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2014, 06:34:11 PM »
Thanks, JLS.  I agree with the others.  This is interesting, and well balanced.
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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2014, 05:25:16 AM »
That is actually very tainted as Smith is a known wolf lover and promoter and is spreading his pro-wolf opinioned propaganda to support the pro-wolf cause much in the same way certain wolf lovers try to do on this forum. Many of his comments and points have been refuted by qualified professionals. I quickly see several specific points that are either incorrect or overlooked by Smith.

1. Smith does not account for the loss of moose in wolf impacted areas.
2. Smith does not account for the fact that ID & MT F&G agencies have both documented tremendous impacts to certain elk herds by wolves.
3. Dr. David Mech considered by many to be the world's foremost authority on wolves has written about how wolves do surplus kill.
4. Smith says wolves would eat surplus killed animals over coming weeks, not true because other scavengers would clean them up.
5. Several Canadian and Alaskan biologists and agencies have written about how intensive wolf management was needed to help local game herds.
6. E. Granulosus was present in rare instances, but wolves spread it widely, Dr Foreyt at WSU documented 66%-67% infection in ID and MT wolves.
7. Smith does not mention that wolves from farther north regions tend to hunt in larger more efficient packs.
8. Smith says they make money for a lot of people, he does not say what the ratio is compared to the amount of people losing money and/or being driven out of business by wolves.
9. Smith mentions nothing about the millions of dollars of taxpayer money wasted by numerous agencies on wolves.
10. Smith mentions nothing about the tremendous shortfall in hunting license sales F&G agencies have suffered.

This article seems to be nothing but another attempt by a known wolf lover to rationalize the real impacts of wolves.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 05:35:57 AM by bearpaw »
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2014, 05:40:53 AM »
That is actually very tainted as Smith is a known wolf lover and promoter and is spreading his pro-wolf opinioned propaganda to support the pro-wolf cause much in the same way certain wolf lovers try to do on this forum. Many of his comments and points have been refuted by qualified professionals. I quickly see several specific points that are either incorrect or overlooked by Smith.

1. Smith does not account for the loss of moose in wolf impacted areas.
2. Smith does not account for the fact that ID & MT F&G agencies have both documented tremendous impacts to certain elk herds by wolves.
3. Dr. David Mech considered by many to be the world's foremost authority on wolves has written about how wolves do surplus kill.
4. Several Canadian and Alaskan biologists and agencies have written about how intensive wolf management was needed to help local game herds.
5. E. Granulosus was present in rare instances, but wolves spread it widely, Dr Foreyt at WSU documented 66%-67% infection in ID and MT wolves.
6. Smith does not mention that wolves from farther north regions tend to hunt in larger more efficient packs.
7. Smith says they make money for a lot of people, he does not say what the ratio is compared to the amount of people losing money and/or being driven out of business by wolves.

This guy's in charge of the wolf project in Yellowstone. What's he going to say? "Yeah, well we really screwed up on this one. We had no idea how big they were and how much they eat. As a matter of fact, the whole thing's gotten really out of control and I'm responsible." Sorry JLS, but this is more government BS to hide the fact that the wolves have been shoved down our throats and no one will admit we're in for an even rougher ride than we already have.
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Offline jon.brown509

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2014, 06:28:56 AM »
That is actually very tainted as Smith is a known wolf lover and promoter and is spreading his pro-wolf opinioned propaganda to support the pro-wolf cause much in the same way certain wolf lovers try to do on this forum. Many of his comments and points have been refuted by qualified professionals. I quickly see several specific points that are either incorrect or overlooked by Smith.

1. Smith does not account for the loss of moose in wolf impacted areas.
2. Smith does not account for the fact that ID & MT F&G agencies have both documented tremendous impacts to certain elk herds by wolves.
3. Dr. David Mech considered by many to be the world's foremost authority on wolves has written about how wolves do surplus kill.
4. Several Canadian and Alaskan biologists and agencies have written about how intensive wolf management was needed to help local game herds.
5. E. Granulosus was present in rare instances, but wolves spread it widely, Dr Foreyt at WSU documented 66%-67% infection in ID and MT wolves.
6. Smith does not mention that wolves from farther north regions tend to hunt in larger more efficient packs.
7. Smith says they make money for a lot of people, he does not say what the ratio is compared to the amount of people losing money and/or being driven out of business by wolves.

This guy's in charge of the wolf project in Yellowstone. What's he going to say? "Yeah, well we really screwed up on this one. We had no idea how big they were and how much they eat. As a matter of fact, the whole thing's gotten really out of control and I'm responsible." Sorry JLS, but this is more government BS to hide the fact that the wolves have been shoved down our throats and no one will admit we're in for an even rougher ride than we already have.

 Actually YNP is ground zero for ranchers learning different ways to stop wolves.Here's a short link for some insightful reading
http://www.westernwolves.org/index.php/ranching-in-wolf-country
Than again your going to call this a :tree1: do to the fact that it's NEW tech out there to help ranchers and wolves get along.

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2014, 06:36:37 AM »
That is actually very tainted as Smith is a known wolf lover and promoter and is spreading his pro-wolf opinioned propaganda to support the pro-wolf cause much in the same way certain wolf lovers try to do on this forum. Many of his comments and points have been refuted by qualified professionals. I quickly see several specific points that are either incorrect or overlooked by Smith.

1. Smith does not account for the loss of moose in wolf impacted areas.
2. Smith does not account for the fact that ID & MT F&G agencies have both documented tremendous impacts to certain elk herds by wolves.
3. Dr. David Mech considered by many to be the world's foremost authority on wolves has written about how wolves do surplus kill.
4. Several Canadian and Alaskan biologists and agencies have written about how intensive wolf management was needed to help local game herds.
5. E. Granulosus was present in rare instances, but wolves spread it widely, Dr Foreyt at WSU documented 66%-67% infection in ID and MT wolves.
6. Smith does not mention that wolves from farther north regions tend to hunt in larger more efficient packs.
7. Smith says they make money for a lot of people, he does not say what the ratio is compared to the amount of people losing money and/or being driven out of business by wolves.

This guy's in charge of the wolf project in Yellowstone. What's he going to say? "Yeah, well we really screwed up on this one. We had no idea how big they were and how much they eat. As a matter of fact, the whole thing's gotten really out of control and I'm responsible." Sorry JLS, but this is more government BS to hide the fact that the wolves have been shoved down our throats and no one will admit we're in for an even rougher ride than we already have.

 Actually YNP is ground zero for ranchers learning different ways to stop wolves.Here's a short link for some insightful reading
http://www.westernwolves.org/index.php/ranching-in-wolf-country
Than again your going to call this a :tree1: do to the fact that it's NEW tech out there to help ranchers and wolves get along.

Or, we're going to call it a pro-wolf fluff piece because of who the group is who wrote it. This is who they are from their own website. Are you a member of these guys?

"The Western Wolf Coalition

Established in 2008, the Western Wolf Coalition is a source of networking for wildlife organizations across the northern Rockies and Pacific Northwest.  Representing more than 20 local, state, regional and national organizations, the coalition is building a grassroots activist network to engage our collective supporters and members in state wildlife actions that impact wolves in the region.  We have also recruited new activists through events and activist training workshops throughout the region. As a result, wolf conservation supporters are attending and speaking at hearings, writing letters to officials, and through newspapers and social media in growing numbers and with a clear focus on important and effective messages to help counter anti-wolf misinformation campaigns. "
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2014, 06:44:28 AM »
I didn't see any new tech, everyone knows the wolf groups think flags, ribbons, and rubber bullets will discourage wolves from eating beef and lamb, but that has been proven to not work in NE Oregon, they had to kill wolves that paid little attention to flagging and ate cattle anyway. There is some merit in the range rider program, but ranchers can't afford that. I know a NE WA rancher personally who has a range rider that the state and wolf groups are financing and I do think it has prevented cattle losses. Are taxpayers ready to pony up range riders for all the cattle operations throughout the west.

These measures are not affordable to most cattle operations especially those utilizing public lands for grazing.
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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2014, 06:57:55 AM »
I didn't see any new tech, everyone knows the wolf groups think flags, ribbons, and rubber bullets will discourage wolves from eating beef and lamb, but that has been proven to not work in NE Oregon, they had to kill wolves that paid little attention to flagging and ate cattle anyway. There is some merit in the range rider program, but ranchers can't afford that. I know a NE WA rancher personally who has a range rider that the state and wolf groups are financing and I do think it has prevented cattle losses. Are taxpayers ready to pony up range riders for all the cattle operations throughout the west.

These measures are not affordable to most cattle operations especially those utilizing public lands for grazing.
Not just those methods,The collar tracker ,screamer,and grizzly urine ? mainly the collar tracker tolet ranchers know if any wolves are near by to me is a great tool used to help cattleman and ranchers
I got to see it in action at my close family friends ranch in BIG Timber MT last summer and there operation isn't what you wou;d call small earthier. ;) 

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 07:04:15 AM »
i always love bearpaws and piannomans input, i think i have A.D.D i try to read those articals but can never make heads or tails of them, it always seems there is an angle and it is generally pro wolf, if wolves were meant to be here then the people that actually had the best interest of our wildlife at heart would have never erradicated them, you never see that in any reports, atleast bearpaw and piannoman explain stuff to dipsticks like myself where i can actually understand it, bio,s explain it where you need a background in rocket science and a PH,D in big word B.S.
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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 07:20:55 AM »
That is actually very tainted as Smith is a known wolf lover and promoter and is spreading his pro-wolf opinioned propaganda to support the pro-wolf cause much in the same way certain wolf lovers try to do on this forum. Many of his comments and points have been refuted by qualified professionals. I quickly see several specific points that are either incorrect or overlooked by Smith.

1. Smith does not account for the loss of moose in wolf impacted areas.
2. Smith does not account for the fact that ID & MT F&G agencies have both documented tremendous impacts to certain elk herds by wolves.
3. Dr. David Mech considered by many to be the world's foremost authority on wolves has written about how wolves do surplus kill.
4. Several Canadian and Alaskan biologists and agencies have written about how intensive wolf management was needed to help local game herds.
5. E. Granulosus was present in rare instances, but wolves spread it widely, Dr Foreyt at WSU documented 66%-67% infection in ID and MT wolves.
6. Smith does not mention that wolves from farther north regions tend to hunt in larger more efficient packs.
7. Smith says they make money for a lot of people, he does not say what the ratio is compared to the amount of people losing money and/or being driven out of business by wolves.

This guy's in charge of the wolf project in Yellowstone. What's he going to say? "Yeah, well we really screwed up on this one. We had no idea how big they were and how much they eat. As a matter of fact, the whole thing's gotten really out of control and I'm responsible." Sorry JLS, but this is more government BS to hide the fact that the wolves have been shoved down our throats and no one will admit we're in for an even rougher ride than we already have.

 Actually YNP is ground zero for ranchers learning different ways to stop wolves.Here's a short link for some insightful reading
http://www.westernwolves.org/index.php/ranching-in-wolf-country
Than again your going to call this a :tree1: do to the fact that it's NEW tech out there to help ranchers and wolves get along.

Or, we're going to call it a pro-wolf fluff piece because of who the group is who wrote it. This is who they are from their own website. Are you a member of these guys?

"The Western Wolf Coalition

Established in 2008, the Western Wolf Coalition is a source of networking for wildlife organizations across the northern Rockies and Pacific Northwest.  Representing more than 20 local, state, regional and national organizations, the coalition is building a grassroots activist network to engage our collective supporters and members in state wildlife actions that impact wolves in the region.  We have also recruited new activists through events and activist training workshops throughout the region. As a result, wolf conservation supporters are attending and speaking at hearings, writing letters to officials, and through newspapers and social media in growing numbers and with a clear focus on important and effective messages to help counter anti-wolf misinformation campaigns. "

They need to add:

Wolf supporters are infiltrating, schools and universities, hunting groups, government agencies, and F&G Departments to further our cause.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Re: Interview with Yellowstone wolf bio
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 07:27:13 AM »
I didn't see any new tech, everyone knows the wolf groups think flags, ribbons, and rubber bullets will discourage wolves from eating beef and lamb, but that has been proven to not work in NE Oregon, they had to kill wolves that paid little attention to flagging and ate cattle anyway. There is some merit in the range rider program, but ranchers can't afford that. I know a NE WA rancher personally who has a range rider that the state and wolf groups are financing and I do think it has prevented cattle losses. Are taxpayers ready to pony up range riders for all the cattle operations throughout the west.

These measures are not affordable to most cattle operations especially those utilizing public lands for grazing.

You forgot a very important wolf deterrent, Dale. "Shoo wolf, shoo." According to the aforementioned pro-wolf unbiased  environmental organization, this is very effective.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace

 


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