Free: Contests & Raffles.
This is a really good read: http://www.foundationforwildlifemanagement.org/Recommendations_Predator-Prey_Management_Final.pdf
I didn't read all of it but if you get past all the bold you also see they are recommending lower moose and deer numbers. I'm assuming this would be done in tandem with cougar and wolf hunting to keep the wolves from having as much to eat and limit pup survival??? So are they saying moose and deer up there are able to handle wolf and cougar predation?Maybe I misread it...??
Quote from: AspenBud on February 15, 2014, 07:22:58 AMI didn't read all of it but if you get past all the bold you also see they are recommending lower moose and deer numbers. I'm assuming this would be done in tandem with cougar and wolf hunting to keep the wolves from having as much to eat and limit pup survival??? So are they saying moose and deer up there are able to handle wolf and cougar predation?Maybe I misread it...??They say the healthy moose and deer herds are causing wolf numbers to expand in caribou country. They can reduce predator numbers but they will likely expand quickly again with lots of prey available. By reducing moose and deer numbers the wolves will not be able to maintain as high of population level. Fewer wolves means less predation on caribou, so fewer prey animals will support fewer wolves which ultimately should allow caribou numbers to expand. It makes sense. This scenario also involves reducing cougars.
Quote from: bearpaw on February 15, 2014, 09:45:04 PMQuote from: AspenBud on February 15, 2014, 07:22:58 AMI didn't read all of it but if you get past all the bold you also see they are recommending lower moose and deer numbers. I'm assuming this would be done in tandem with cougar and wolf hunting to keep the wolves from having as much to eat and limit pup survival??? So are they saying moose and deer up there are able to handle wolf and cougar predation?Maybe I misread it...??They say the healthy moose and deer herds are causing wolf numbers to expand in caribou country. They can reduce predator numbers but they will likely expand quickly again with lots of prey available. By reducing moose and deer numbers the wolves will not be able to maintain as high of population level. Fewer wolves means less predation on caribou, so fewer prey animals will support fewer wolves which ultimately should allow caribou numbers to expand. It makes sense. This scenario also involves reducing cougars.I get that, it makes sense, but it seems to me that they must feel fairly confident that wolves won't kill off their moose and deer despite lowering the number of moose and deer. They're effectively saying their deer and moose are growing in number despite wolves and cougars and causing the predator numbers to grow too large for caribou to handle as a result. That's a little different take than what we hear down here. Sounds to me like they're saying some ungulates can handle the pressure better than others. My question is why? Do they have more stable populations? More appropriate habitat? Are they more prolific? The fact that they manage wolves up there can't be the only reason when they are talking about managing cougars, wolves, deer, and moose. If anything the piece would seem to indicate the four animals live a little too well together. What makes BC different?
Quote from: AspenBud on February 16, 2014, 08:30:50 AMQuote from: bearpaw on February 15, 2014, 09:45:04 PMQuote from: AspenBud on February 15, 2014, 07:22:58 AMI didn't read all of it but if you get past all the bold you also see they are recommending lower moose and deer numbers. I'm assuming this would be done in tandem with cougar and wolf hunting to keep the wolves from having as much to eat and limit pup survival??? So are they saying moose and deer up there are able to handle wolf and cougar predation?Maybe I misread it...??They say the healthy moose and deer herds are causing wolf numbers to expand in caribou country. They can reduce predator numbers but they will likely expand quickly again with lots of prey available. By reducing moose and deer numbers the wolves will not be able to maintain as high of population level. Fewer wolves means less predation on caribou, so fewer prey animals will support fewer wolves which ultimately should allow caribou numbers to expand. It makes sense. This scenario also involves reducing cougars.I get that, it makes sense, but it seems to me that they must feel fairly confident that wolves won't kill off their moose and deer despite lowering the number of moose and deer. They're effectively saying their deer and moose are growing in number despite wolves and cougars and causing the predator numbers to grow too large for caribou to handle as a result. That's a little different take than what we hear down here. Sounds to me like they're saying some ungulates can handle the pressure better than others. My question is why? Do they have more stable populations? More appropriate habitat? Are they more prolific? The fact that they manage wolves up there can't be the only reason when they are talking about managing cougars, wolves, deer, and moose. If anything the piece would seem to indicate the four animals live a little too well together. What makes BC different?You are missing the point. Sure wolves will eventually reduce deer and moose as they multiply in southern BC. But they need to act before wolves over populate to that point. Caribou are at low enough levels that incidental kill of them by the large predator population must be reduced now to save the specie. They plan to take out a large percentage of wolves but the wolf population will rebuild unless they take out deer and moose so that there isn't enough prey to support a large predator population. Otherwise they will be stuck killing large numbers of wolves every year. They can use liberal hunting seasons to reduce deer and moose numbers which will make it tougher for predators to recover as quickly and wolf reductions won't be needed as often.
Interesting study and discussion. Reminding me that money talks.... Canada in many ways is more liberal than the United States and even Washington. But they see the handwriting on the wall for the millions and millions of dollars that hunting is to their economy. There would still be enough general tax revenue is Washington for a wildlife department in Washington even if nobody hunted and that doesn't strike me as the case in Canada.
Quote from: bearpaw on February 16, 2014, 08:41:05 AMQuote from: AspenBud on February 16, 2014, 08:30:50 AMQuote from: bearpaw on February 15, 2014, 09:45:04 PMQuote from: AspenBud on February 15, 2014, 07:22:58 AMI didn't read all of it but if you get past all the bold you also see they are recommending lower moose and deer numbers. I'm assuming this would be done in tandem with cougar and wolf hunting to keep the wolves from having as much to eat and limit pup survival??? So are they saying moose and deer up there are able to handle wolf and cougar predation?Maybe I misread it...??They say the healthy moose and deer herds are causing wolf numbers to expand in caribou country. They can reduce predator numbers but they will likely expand quickly again with lots of prey available. By reducing moose and deer numbers the wolves will not be able to maintain as high of population level. Fewer wolves means less predation on caribou, so fewer prey animals will support fewer wolves which ultimately should allow caribou numbers to expand. It makes sense. This scenario also involves reducing cougars.I get that, it makes sense, but it seems to me that they must feel fairly confident that wolves won't kill off their moose and deer despite lowering the number of moose and deer. They're effectively saying their deer and moose are growing in number despite wolves and cougars and causing the predator numbers to grow too large for caribou to handle as a result. That's a little different take than what we hear down here. Sounds to me like they're saying some ungulates can handle the pressure better than others. My question is why? Do they have more stable populations? More appropriate habitat? Are they more prolific? The fact that they manage wolves up there can't be the only reason when they are talking about managing cougars, wolves, deer, and moose. If anything the piece would seem to indicate the four animals live a little too well together. What makes BC different?You are missing the point. Sure wolves will eventually reduce deer and moose as they multiply in southern BC. But they need to act before wolves over populate to that point. Caribou are at low enough levels that incidental kill of them by the large predator population must be reduced now to save the specie. They plan to take out a large percentage of wolves but the wolf population will rebuild unless they take out deer and moose so that there isn't enough prey to support a large predator population. Otherwise they will be stuck killing large numbers of wolves every year. They can use liberal hunting seasons to reduce deer and moose numbers which will make it tougher for predators to recover as quickly and wolf reductions won't be needed as often.I didn't miss that. The Canadians are doing what we should be doing. I'm just fascinated that they aren't worried the combination of wolves and increased limits won't effectively create a predator pit. They're essentially showing with proper management that the two can coexist.