The “Naturally Migrating” GI Wolves

[WAcoyotehunter]

Exactly my point. They could have done this any time they chose. Why now. Why not when game was more plentiful and less people where in eastern Washington yet as soon as they BROUGHT them to Yellowstone they started showing up all over!

I think the ones coming from Idaho are the product of what was released there, not any mystery release in Washington. I think they've always come across the border with Canada, but until the government turned them loose elsewhere in the country no one gave them much of a second thought. They "didn't exist" so they got shot or people didn't believe their eyes.

Like you said not many mystery releases, here are a few real releases.

So my wife went home to reardan this weekend and her dad owns some land by hawk creek, just outside of Davenport and he witnessed the fish and game release 4 wolves onto his property 10 feet from his pasture where he has cows, he flipped and almost killed 6 people, the fish and game said they could release wolves on private property without getting permison, anyone out there know if they legally can do that?http://washington-hunters.com/wolf-disc … k.facebook
In May 2009 WDFW bought the rest of the Golden Doe ranch outside of Twisp WA, the first thing they did was releases wolves on it, and they were caught in the act. Their wolves killed a cow and a new calf right off the bat. A friend of mine put a trail camera on it right after it happened, we have pictures of WDFW inspecting the cow, it shows that the only damage on the cow is her hind-end is eaten. Funny thing is they failed to mention the new calf, when they ran to the papers and lied about what killed the cow, they some how forgot all about the new calf. http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pres … estigators

Talked to a good buddy of mine and he informed me that a friend of his fathers was up in the Ellensburg area and noticed WDFW vehicle and trailer and was wondering what they were doing and started taking pictures as they released a  pair of wolves. Later he contacted the WDFW and they denied everything until he told them he was going to the media and that changed there tune and they admitted they released a mating pair of wolves http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index … 788.0.html
Here's another one: Was talking to a teacher yesterday at the meeting who and brought some students to watch the proceedings.
He was telling us about one of his buddies that works for one of the counties in SW Washington. That he was out plowing the road to clear snow off. And a bunch of WDFW  employees would not let him continue up the road. He said that they had a horse trailer with kennels in the back. He said he had to threaten them with the cops before they would let him to continue to do his job. Sounds like you are right about  transplanting wolves already on Mt. St. Helens.

My Veterinarian encountered a trucker outside of Spokane Washington at a rest area, Curiosity got the best of my Vet as his dog was very upset. So he talked with the trucker and he showed him his cargo, he had 68 crates on board, Some had 2 wolves, some had one wolf, all were destined to be released in the Olympic National Forest, that was in May of this year (2011).
The truck driver was interviewed and he said the wolves came out of the Yellowstone.
http://www.northwestwolfsightings.org/P … #anchor_72
7-2012 Found out some first hand interesting info yesterday for those of us that live in Clark County WA. My husband and his buddy were out hiking in the Yacolt burn yesterday and they ran into a group of young guys and after talking a bit my husband had asked if they had seen any coyotes since that is what they were really after. The guy said yea my dad saw a "HUGE coyote his back stood about two and half three feet tall" He was talking about a wolf but didn't know at that point my hubby knows about the wolf issues. So my hubby said you mean a wolf? The guy says "Im calling them large coyotes since DFW wont admit they're here so when we shoot them we can say oh I thought they were coyotes and we didn't have them here yet" He went on to tell my husband that in the same place his friend came upon some fish and wildlife guys that had cages in the back of their truck. Just as he pulled up on them he counted about 8 wolves running into the brush. He asked what they were up to and there was a lot of Ummm's and stumbling over stories and they told him it was a research project. Then they got out of there fast. So needless to say they are only about 20 miles from my house now!


I talk to one of our Okanogan county commissioners about some of these releases a few years ago, and have heard of others since. The county commissioner told me of releases in the Methow which I hadn't heard about. And yet WDFW claim they are white as snow with no wolf releases, it is no wonder rural folks have no respect for WDFW.

Where are the 68+ wolves that were released into Olympic NP in 2011?

Where is the photo of the release from you friends fathers friend in E'burg?

Where is the picture of the cow with "only the hind end eaten"... surely that's not the same old pic you always show???

You do not have a single piece of evidence.  You do not have a single document, photo, employee testimony....nothing.  You have no argument Wolfbate.  It's nonsense. 

Why can't you move on?  Seriously?  Come back with something new to show us.  If this was a court case it would have been thrown out in the opening statements.

[jasnt]

They released them in Yellowstone, Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming.  So it is probable they released them in Washington and Oregon. 
Proof is in the eye of the beholder.  Proof is not needed for something to be true,it is needed to convince others its true. Even if you where shown video of the releases you would say it's doctored or simply brush it aside as something else they where releasing.  Washington is all about this so called reintroduction. I dont dout for a second that they wouldn't bring them in and release.  If everyone believes they migrated in than wdfw doesn't have to accept blame. They won't have to answer to all the people that didn't want them. We never got a choice or a say in wolves being in Washington.  Many of us didn't want them here.  If these wolves were actually a native wolf I would be on the other side of the fence. These are not the native wolf and if there were any native wolves left im sure they are dead now. I think it's a little naive to say they were not any wolves released in Washington after we all know they were released in other states!  Don't get me wrong im not a wolf hater.  Im a predator hunter.  I look forward to hunting these non native wolves! 

[hogsniper]

This is actually a very entertaining post.  If you cant understand that wolves move very freely through the landscape your not very educated on the subject.  Why sit here and argue about this amazing fact that wolves are here and start figuring out how to get them delisted in the state. Predator management is needed but not only with wolves.  How many cats do you have in Washington?  How many ungulates do they kill a year?  Wolves are not going to help their numbers but surely aren't the end all to the states deer and elk in my opinion!

[jasnt]

I know they roam. This is dispersal.  I also know it can take 1000's of miles before they decide where they will call home. But to say they all came from the original released wolves or that they all migrated here seems absurd. Why because wolves have been just north of us for 100's of years so why have they never settled here before the big "re-introduction".  We have had wolves as far south as California. Yet why now? Why are they Denning in places they never called home before.  Why were their no gray wolf packs in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana before 1995? What was it that changed? We brought them here is why.  It seems to me that they could have done this all along yet they never chose to call it home. Im sure many grey wolves have walk American soil long before 1995.   if I wanted a species here really bad I sure as hell would not sit back and wait for them to wonder over. I'd go catch some and bring them here! So how is it so hard to believe some one hasn't done so. 

[jasnt]

Like I said I am a predator hunter,I hunt all predatorsand focus more effort on predatorsthan any other species,i look forward to hunting them, and yes I have been doing my research, like I do with all my query  I study them very intently. The more I know about my query the easier it is to find them,to get close and win. Some day I will get to hunt them and I will be ready to do that on day 1 of Washington's wolf season! Washington's dont think they will bring an end to elk,deer or moose. But I also know their will be wolf problems

[hogsniper]

Well that is an interesting idea, but if you were going to let them loose say in Oregon and Washington don't ya think they would be a little further into the state than already established packs in Idaho?  These things reproduce and at an early age and disperse to find their own territory.  Why wouldn't they come into Washington and Oregon where it is there for the taking?  It just gets me because I have been doing a lot of work lately on this exact topic and with a little research you will see how they move and how far they will travel.

[wolfbait]

Exactly my point. They could have done this any time they chose. Why now. Why not when game was more plentiful and less people where in eastern Washington yet as soon as they BROUGHT them to Yellowstone they started showing up all over!

I think the ones coming from Idaho are the product of what was released there, not any mystery release in Washington. I think they've always come across the border with Canada, but until the government turned them loose elsewhere in the country no one gave them much of a second thought. They "didn't exist" so they got shot or people didn't believe their eyes.

Like you said not many mystery releases, here are a few real releases.

So my wife went home to reardan this weekend and her dad owns some land by hawk creek, just outside of Davenport and he witnessed the fish and game release 4 wolves onto his property 10 feet from his pasture where he has cows, he flipped and almost killed 6 people, the fish and game said they could release wolves on private property without getting permison, anyone out there know if they legally can do that?http://washington-hunters.com/wolf-disc … k.facebook
In May 2009 WDFW bought the rest of the Golden Doe ranch outside of Twisp WA, the first thing they did was releases wolves on it, and they were caught in the act. Their wolves killed a cow and a new calf right off the bat. A friend of mine put a trail camera on it right after it happened, we have pictures of WDFW inspecting the cow, it shows that the only damage on the cow is her hind-end is eaten. Funny thing is they failed to mention the new calf, when they ran to the papers and lied about what killed the cow, they some how forgot all about the new calf. http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pres … estigators

Talked to a good buddy of mine and he informed me that a friend of his fathers was up in the Ellensburg area and noticed WDFW vehicle and trailer and was wondering what they were doing and started taking pictures as they released a  pair of wolves. Later he contacted the WDFW and they denied everything until he told them he was going to the media and that changed there tune and they admitted they released a mating pair of wolves http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index … 788.0.html
Here's another one: Was talking to a teacher yesterday at the meeting who and brought some students to watch the proceedings.
He was telling us about one of his buddies that works for one of the counties in SW Washington. That he was out plowing the road to clear snow off. And a bunch of WDFW  employees would not let him continue up the road. He said that they had a horse trailer with kennels in the back. He said he had to threaten them with the cops before they would let him to continue to do his job. Sounds like you are right about  transplanting wolves already on Mt. St. Helens.

My Veterinarian encountered a trucker outside of Spokane Washington at a rest area, Curiosity got the best of my Vet as his dog was very upset. So he talked with the trucker and he showed him his cargo, he had 68 crates on board, Some had 2 wolves, some had one wolf, all were destined to be released in the Olympic National Forest, that was in May of this year (2011).
The truck driver was interviewed and he said the wolves came out of the Yellowstone.
http://www.northwestwolfsightings.org/P … #anchor_72
7-2012 Found out some first hand interesting info yesterday for those of us that live in Clark County WA. My husband and his buddy were out hiking in the Yacolt burn yesterday and they ran into a group of young guys and after talking a bit my husband had asked if they had seen any coyotes since that is what they were really after. The guy said yea my dad saw a "HUGE coyote his back stood about two and half three feet tall" He was talking about a wolf but didn't know at that point my hubby knows about the wolf issues. So my hubby said you mean a wolf? The guy says "Im calling them large coyotes since DFW wont admit they're here so when we shoot them we can say oh I thought they were coyotes and we didn't have them here yet" He went on to tell my husband that in the same place his friend came upon some fish and wildlife guys that had cages in the back of their truck. Just as he pulled up on them he counted about 8 wolves running into the brush. He asked what they were up to and there was a lot of Ummm's and stumbling over stories and they told him it was a research project. Then they got out of there fast. So needless to say they are only about 20 miles from my house now!


I talk to one of our Okanogan county commissioners about some of these releases a few years ago, and have heard of others since. The county commissioner told me of releases in the Methow which I hadn't heard about. And yet WDFW claim they are white as snow with no wolf releases, it is no wonder rural folks have no respect for WDFW.

Where are the 68+ wolves that were released into Olympic NP in 2011?

Where is the photo of the release from you friends fathers friend in E'burg?

Where is the picture of the cow with "only the hind end eaten"... surely that's not the same old pic you always show???

You do not have a single piece of evidence.  You do not have a single document, photo, employee testimony....nothing.  You have no argument Wolfbate.  It's nonsense. 

Why can't you move on?  Seriously?  Come back with something new to show us.  If this was a court case it would have been thrown out in the opening statements.

If WDFW hard released the wolves into the Olympic NP, the wolves have probably already made their way back home to Idaho etc.. Probably where WDFW gets their phrase "the wolves are just passing through,  for once they aren't lying. Hard released wolves head for home unless they are fenced in. All though I have heard that if wolves are fed at the release site, sometimes they will stay. The USFWS discovered hard released wolves generally went back home in other wolf releases, that was the reason why the USFWS kept their Canadian wolves in fenced off kennels for months before releasing them into the Yellowstone.

You are correct, the info I have will not stand up in court, WDFW would just lie, same as they do when it is brought up in wolf meetings, lying about wolves is nothing new for WDFW. There are others who have more info than I would ever be able to obtain, info that would hold up in court., but I highly doubt WDFW will be interested in taking it to court.

 
Why can't I move on? I have moved on, we have had several discussions about wolves on W-H, in fact there are several topics going right now that you can trot off to. . WDFW releasing wolves is just another discussion that needs discussed. I know you and a few others disagree, but it is an important topic, in the future just like WA and OR, it will be a part of California's wolf history also.  How did the wolves get in our state?  Answer: They were released by your state game agency and the USFWS.

 Of all the wolf issue discussed, why is it that the pro-wolfers on W-H, push back so strongly against the fact that WDFW have been caught released wolves in WA?  Do they all work for WDFW?

[timberfaller]

"Of all the wolf issue discussed, why is it that the pro-wolfers on W-H, push back so strongly against the fact that WDFW have been caught released wolves in WA?  Do they all work for WDFW?"

Ya, inquiring minds would like to know!

I am afraid it is the same "ideology" that you find in the "lead banning" issue.   MOST don't know or care that USFWS was AGAINST(no scientific data supporting "lead poisoning" issue) going to "steel shot" in the beginning.  Their data had dead birds with lead shot in them, but they didn't have ONE which could be proven to have died from lead poisoning.     It wasn't until they forced the head guy into retirement(who refused to go with steel), did the get the agency to go steel.

And we all know "government" knows best!!

As far as "evidence" goes,  YOU can have all you need in the world, BUT if you don't have a lawyer willing to pro bono the fight, forget it.  Besides there are not to many lawyers out there with the "values" to do the right thing or fight for the right.  YOU don't have to look every far to see what I mean,  Just look at our Nation's Capital!!

[idahohuntr]

Of all the wolf issue discussed, why is it that the pro-wolfers on W-H, push back so strongly against the fact that WDFW have been caught released wolves in WA?  Do they all work for WDFW?

I don't know of any pro-wolfers on H-W...I am an avid hunter and supporter of state based management of wolves (as we do in Idaho), and I push back against these claims that wolves were transplanted in WA by WDFW or USFWS because there is no factual basis to those claims, not a shred of credible evidence to support them, and it makes hunters who mistakenly believe these lies look unintelligent when discussing controversial wolf management issues.     

[WAcoyotehunter]

Of all the wolf issue discussed, why is it that the pro-wolfers on W-H, push back so strongly against the fact that WDFW have been caught released wolves in WA?  Do they all work for WDFW?

I don't know of any pro-wolfers on H-W...I am an avid hunter and supporter of state based management of wolves (as we do in Idaho), and I push back against these claims that wolves were transplanted in WA by WDFW or USFWS because there is no factual basis to those claims, not a shred of credible evidence to support them, and it makes hunters who mistakenly believe these lies look unintelligent when discussing controversial wolf management issues.     

+1.  I'm not "pro wolf"... I'm a realist and understand that this issue is more complicated and political than it should be, and adding emotion and nonsensical claims about releases do nothing for wolf management.

I have an ID wolf tag, I will be hunting them the minute we can here in WA.  I'm pro wolf management.

[wolfbait]

Of all the wolf issue discussed, why is it that the pro-wolfers on W-H, push back so strongly against the fact that WDFW have been caught released wolves in WA?  Do they all work for WDFW?

I don't know of any pro-wolfers on H-W...I am an avid hunter and supporter of state based management of wolves (as we do in Idaho), and I push back against these claims that wolves were transplanted in WA by WDFW or USFWS because there is no factual basis to those claims, not a shred of credible evidence to support them, and it makes hunters who mistakenly believe these lies look unintelligent when discussing controversial wolf management issues.     

+1.  I'm not "pro wolf"... I'm a realist and understand that this issue is more complicated and political than it should be, and adding emotion and nonsensical claims about releases do nothing for wolf management.

I have an ID wolf tag, I will be hunting them the minute we can here in WA.  I'm pro wolf management.

Well that's so good to hear, I take it neither one of you work for WDFW then?

It's amazing how many unintelligent people their are in rural areas where wolves have shown up? I wonder if the two of you include people who have reported wolves and WDFW deny there are wolves in the area, and then they prove WDFW wrong, are these people unintelligent also? When WDFW claim wolves won't kill cows or refuse to confirm wolf killed cows, is everyone else considered unintelligent? WDFW came out with the worst wolf plan to date, are the people who appose the wolf plan unintelligent?

You both say you are for wolf management, look at the wolf management so far> WDFW refuse to confirm obvious wolf killed livestock, refuse to acknowledge the impact wolves are having on deer, elk, etc., refuse to acknowledge wolf sightings, refuse to confirm wolf packs unless forced to do so. WA won't delist until WDFW confirm 15 BP, who is in charge of confirming? Look at their management of predators that are not endangered, at this point looking at their past performance, WDFW pretty much suck.

[WAcoyotehunter]

You don't know what the WDFW is doing because you have alienated yourself from them, and trashed on the local biologists so much that you'll never be able to have a relaxed, honest, conversation with them.  You are always looking for a conspiracy.  If you would relax and engage in some dialogue with the people at WDFW you might get a better understanding of the issues they are facing politically.  I don't like it either, but that's the way it is.

I do not work for the WDFW, but I do work on finding and reporting wolves whenever I can. I have been a part of the wolf program in a few ways, and am not 100% satisfied with things (WDFW effort, Wolf Plan, Wolf Conflict) .  Again, we have to take the most meaningful actions to guide the decisions.  To me, that means keeping close and making reasonable comments.  I

If by "unintelligent" you mean irrational, ignorant, aggressive, and intolerant-then yes.  I think there are a lot of those folks around.  There are a lot of them in rural areas and they abound on this site.  Wolves shouldn't get everyone so emotional.  They're another piece of wildlife that should be managed as such. 

[idahohuntr]

You don't know what the WDFW is doing because you have alienated yourself from them, and trashed on the local biologists so much that you'll never be able to have a relaxed, honest, conversation with them.  You are always looking for a conspiracy.  If you would relax and engage in some dialogue with the people at WDFW you might get a better understanding of the issues they are facing politically.  I don't like it either, but that's the way it is.

I do not work for the WDFW, but I do work on finding and reporting wolves whenever I can. I have been a part of the wolf program in a few ways, and am not 100% satisfied with things (WDFW effort, Wolf Plan, Wolf Conflict) .  Again, we have to take the most meaningful actions to guide the decisions.  To me, that means keeping close and making reasonable comments.  I

If by "unintelligent" you mean irrational, ignorant, aggressive, and intolerant-then yes.  I think there are a lot of those folks around.  There are a lot of them in rural areas and they abound on this site.  Wolves shouldn't get everyone so emotional.  They're another piece of wildlife that should be managed as such.

  Well said.

[wolfbait]

You don't know what the WDFW is doing because you have alienated yourself from them, and trashed on the local biologists so much that you'll never be able to have a relaxed, honest, conversation with them.  You are always looking for a conspiracy.  If you would relax and engage in some dialogue with the people at WDFW you might get a better understanding of the issues they are facing politically.  I don't like it either, but that's the way it is.

I do not work for the WDFW, but I do work on finding and reporting wolves whenever I can. I have been a part of the wolf program in a few ways, and am not 100% satisfied with things (WDFW effort, Wolf Plan, Wolf Conflict) .  Again, we have to take the most meaningful actions to guide the decisions.  To me, that means keeping close and making reasonable comments.  I

If by "unintelligent" you mean irrational, ignorant, aggressive, and intolerant-then yes.  I think there are a lot of those folks around.  There are a lot of them in rural areas and they abound on this site.  Wolves shouldn't get everyone so emotional.  They're another piece of wildlife that should be managed as such.

Geeze WC do you read what you write or just throw it on and click post? WDFW don't care about what the ranchers, hunters or rural people think, they have proven this time and again with their BS lies, thats the reason they are such a joke. I think what you want is all attaboys for WDFW's wolf/predator management, you don't want any part of the truth, because the truth turns WDFW into baldfaced liars.

Just like the wolf that WDFW trapped in McFarland Cr a few weeks ago, most people know the real story, but yet WDFW run to the papers with a BS story that the wolves in McFarland cr are part of the lookout pack, and you want people to keep swallowing WDFW lies? You are looking at ignorance at full force from WDFW, but they don't care they have run with the lookout pack since 2008, it's a lie that has traveled for five years.


You can keep pushing the narrative that WDFW are doing the best they can, or they are honestly trying to manage wolves, but anyone who believes in WDFW ever managing wolves responsibly only have to look at the last five years, they have become the agency that is looked upon with disgust.

"If by "unintelligent" you mean irrational, ignorant, aggressive, and intolerant-then yes.  I think there are a lot of those folks around.  There are a lot of them in rural areas and they abound on this site.  Wolves shouldn't get everyone so emotional.  They're another piece of wildlife that should be managed as such."

 You must mean the people who have to live with the wolves WDFW released on them and then lie about year after year.

If those darn rural people would just shut the hell up it would be smooth sailing for WDFW! You are a real winner, WC. I bet you are proud as punch. Remember one thing, all lies sooner or later come to light, just like the last 18 years of fraud and corruption of the original wolf introduction into the Yellowstone and Idaho.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I live in the middle of nowhere and have wolves close.  Don't act like I'm some kind of neophyte to the rural lifestyle.  The difference is, I don't light the torches and gather a mob of ignorant conspiracy theorists every time a WDFW truck goes by.

Believe it or not, the WDFW has to answer to more than you and your ilk... whoever that might be.  YOU WILL NEVER MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN WASHINGTON BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.  Please take a minute and re-read that a few times and think about what that means.  The WDFW will never listen to you because you are the boy that has been crying wolf for half a decade and has not produced one single piece of useful information.

I will stand by with bated breath waiting for you to shed light on the fraud....    Just like we all have been for 5 years now....