bling. blingbling. bling blingbling!!!

[BOWHUNTER45]

Hey ...just caught 4 silvers ...ALL IN THE BUNG HOLE ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA       Just messin   I should not mess around by saying things like that or they will be by with a warrant to check ...

[bowhunterwa87]

I nominate ODH for Fishing Board Moderator.

He hasn't called anyone names.

2nd

3rd

4th vote

[wildmanoutdoors]

This thread rocks! 

[kodiak 907]

I nominate ODH for Fishing Board Moderator.

He hasn't called anyone names.

2nd

[thegeneral]

Can I vote again?

[bowjunkie]

WOW!!!!! 

[bearpaw]

 
Straight from the regs:
"Snagging: Attempting to take fish with a hook and line in such a way that the fish does not
voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. In freshwater, it is illegal to possess any fish
hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth or on the head".

I'm just trying to understand what the law really says? I wish a WDFW officer would comment on flossing.

Looking at the language in bold it seems that even if the fish is hooked outside the mouth, if you are fishing in fresh water and the fish is hooked anywhere on the head it is legal unless it can be proven the fish did not take the bait voluntarily.

Am I wrong?

[jay.sharkbait]

 
Straight from the regs:
"Snagging: Attempting to take fish with a hook and line in such a way that the fish does not
voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. In freshwater, it is illegal to possess any fish
hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth or on the head".

I'm just trying to understand what the law really says? I wish a WDFW officer would comment on flossing.

Looking at the language in bold it seems that even if the fish is hooked outside the mouth, if you are fishing in fresh water and the fish is hooked anywhere on the head it is legal unless it can be proven the fish did not take the bait voluntarily.

Am I wrong?

Way I see it is as long as there is no elevator video or statements from a pissed off ex wife the evil flosser is good to go.....

[FC]

I'm just trying to understand what the law really says? I wish a WDFW officer would comment on flossing.

Looking at the language in bold it seems that even if the fish is hooked outside the mouth, if you are fishing in fresh water and the fish is hooked anywhere on the head it is legal unless it can be proven the fish did not take the bait voluntarily.

Am I wrong?

Nope, you are reading it correctly.

[bearpaw]

I'm just trying to understand what the law really says? I wish a WDFW officer would comment on flossing.

Looking at the language in bold it seems that even if the fish is hooked outside the mouth, if you are fishing in fresh water and the fish is hooked anywhere on the head it is legal unless it can be proven the fish did not take the bait voluntarily.

Am I wrong?

Nope, you are reading it correctly.

I don't like laws like this, it really causes problems like you see in this topic of separating sportsmen and creating gray area, I wish they would use more precise language!

[wildmanoutdoors]

 
Straight from the regs:
"Snagging: Attempting to take fish with a hook and line in such a way that the fish does not
voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. In freshwater, it is illegal to possess any fish
hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth or on the head".

I'm just trying to understand what the law really says? I wish a WDFW officer would comment on flossing.

Looking at the language in bold it seems that even if the fish is hooked outside the mouth, if you are fishing in fresh water and the fish is hooked anywhere on the head it is legal unless it can be proven the fish did not take the bait voluntarily.

Am I wrong?

The only way they can really ticket you for flossing is if you're ripping hooksets at the end of every drift constantly. then hook a fish and keep it if it's outside the mouth or face that's what they look for on areas like it's Skok and what not and where they patrolling these lining fisheries.

[wildmanoutdoors]

But if they do the ripping Hookset and it does get them in the mouth or face area where it's legal then they cannot prove the angler felt the bite and set the hook.

[Soady]

The way I see it this flossing thing has been going on for a lot longer than what is being discussed here so I am offering a bit of history from another fishing page if it is ok in order to shed some light on this topic.


 Originally Posted by RI4B07 
Ah the good old days, when the standard set up on the Fraser was a 12' aluminium with a 9.9, loaded with a cooler of sandwiches, lawn chairs, and a couple thick rods with knuckle dusters on them. I think it was in the early 90s when I was introduced to it, and was taken out to grassy bar one august morning. Chinook fishing was just re-opened, as it was closed for some time prior. People were camped out, having a good time and fish were being caught.

I think what happened was the economic down fall of the 1980s ended, and the economy began to recover. Interest rates fell and mortgages were refinanced. People began having disposable income again, which means more people started getting in to various hobbies. A HUGE influx of new anglers came into the sport. I personally blame the popularity of the movie, "A River Runs Through It" for a lot of the recent popularity of fishing.

Also around this time it was found that bottom bouncing could catch sockeye on the fraser. Chinook fishing had been re-opened for some time, but Sockeye were believed to be the most tight lipped fish out there. Some figured out that apparently they loved green wool and by bouncing a line and hook through the river they hooked sockeye. So with a little pressure from the angling community (the same group of guys who got the river opened for chinook) a sport fishery for sockeye was opened.

Now real bottom bouncing, which is called drift fishing, is practiced through out the west coast. A small slinky with a short leader with some kind of presentation on it was then and is still today, an effective way of getting a presentation in front of a fish and triggering a bite. Keep this in mind. Bottom bouncing isn't a dirty word. Flossing is what is being practiced on the Fraser. There is a difference. In bottom bouncing, the goal is to have your weight balanced with the depth and flow of the river so that every so often the rig just 'ticks' the river bed. Then you lift your rod and the rig continues on and hopefully a fish sees this presentation and bites it. The goal in bottom bouncing on the fraser is to run a leader out through a school of fish, have that leader run through a fish's mouth, dragging along a hook and piercing the fish's mouth.

Back when sockeye first opened, it was stupid easy to catch them (and it still is.) There were also -way- more fish. You could go down to peg leg at any time during the openings, and in less than 30 minutes have your limit and be gone. People knew that the sockeye were in close to shore and nobody waded out to their waist in the water. They just made their cast and hooked fish in the slower shallows. Big schools of fish? Just cast in front of them and hold on! It was just that easy. Why was it so easy? Because the fish aren't biting. They're being flossed. Plain and simple. Bare hooks were just as effective as any colour of wool or corkie. The schools were so thick, you just had to pass a line through them and a fish would be hooked. I think i've done it a total of 4 times. Once in 2000 and then next summer in 2001. I caught fish, but it wasn't fun and certainly wasn't a sport. It was bloody hard work!

This 'new' method of fishing brought with it large group of new anglers. This stupid easy way of catching fish brewed up a perfect storm so to speak. The word spread fast. Sockeye! It's easy! Come on out and catch a salmon! Sportfishing BC did a show about it. Tackle shops were selling fishing licenses and gear to everyone and anyone. "We have green wool!" and "Bouncing Betties In Stock!" were common signs out front of some tackle shops. Everyone got pumped up about this method of fishing. The crowds began to form, everyone came down to "get their two socks" as if they were entitled to these fish. It was, and is still, a gold rush mentality.

This is where the conflict begins. With so many 'new' anglers, most did not know the etiquette and mores (that's pronounced more-ays) of sport fishing. The more experienced group (to which I lay no claim) did not like johnny newrod and his wife coming down to the river. Johnny newrod had all the brand new gear but didn't know what to do with it. He didn't say hello. He didn't have ethics. He was just there for meat.

People began tangling lines, breaking off on snags and leaving more garbage in and around the river. The crowds got thicker and thicker as more and more people came to harvest their share of the bounty. Instead of standing on the shore, people waded out further and further into the river. Crowds so thick that if you moved from your spot to take a pee, someone jumped right in behind you.

Fights broke out over stupid things like "hey! that's my spot!" I have never confirmed this story, but legend says some guy got stabbed at scale bar in a fight like this. When you landed a fish there may be two or three lines attached to the fish as people kept casting over each other. You had to reel right down to the fish to find out who's fish it was. More and more people came. The crowds spilled out from the walk-in bars, and people bought boats with low interest loans to get away from the crowds, only to form other types of crowds further out there.

More and more anglers came and found out how easy it was, and how much they liked 'fishing' and catching a fish. The hero stories of being able to floss a sockeye were everywhere. The internet fishing forums grew and grew bringing more anglers in to the sport. Digital cameras made it easy to put up pics of people hoisting their catches. The bright silvery fish drawing in more to the banks of rivers. The crowds got even thicker. As people waded out, and leaders got longer, as people tried new spots, more and more chinook were being caught too.

That's where i think the morph begins. People started ironically catching chinook as a by-catch of sockeye. They realized that you can catch chinook in the early times of the summer too. At times that when traditionally the fraser is still in freshet and too turbid for fish to see any sort of presentation. Just as easy as flossing two sockeye in august, you can floss a chinook in june. It doesn't matter what the water conditions are really, because the fish isn't biting. So now there are people out there at the moment that DFO says "go" and they're flossing chinook until sockeye opens, then they floss both.

This same new group moved to other rivers too. Salmon season didn't end in September! There were salmon in many rivers: vedder, capilano, chehalis, stave, suicide, harrison, squamish. They all had salmon in them, runs that started in may lasted into december. The greatest thing about it all was that it really didn't matter if the fish bit the hook or not, because flossing takes that out of the formula.

Funniest thing is that it actually takes a bit of skill to be an effective flosser. You have to know what size of weight to use, how much wool or size of corkie to float which ever length of leader your tossing. Where and how to cast. If the goal is to get the line stretched out as long as possible, and floated high enough to pass through a fish's mouth then it actually takes some skill to set up and effective rig. That's why you see some people who are good flossers, and some who are not. It's the ultimate laugh to me about it all. None of these fish are biting, but it takes some skill to dial in to them. If people are that keen on fishing, why not just try to get the fish to bite?

I think the worst part is how there are fewer and fewer fish. This only creates more pressure on fish and the anglers trying to catch them. The gold rush mentality makes it much more ugly. People start thinking they're entitled to two sockeye a day. You can see the racism coming out. People don't like natives exercising their constitutional rights. If someone on the river doesn't speak english, or isn't white, they're put down as a poacher. Less people say hello or help each other out. Few teach new people the ethics and mores of angling, because there are so few that practice them anymore. Those that do are too jaded to help out the new breed.

There's probably a lot more in to the history of flossing on the fraser, but that's kinda how i know it to be. To this day, I'm always amazed at how upset people get when you point out to them that their flossed fish didn't bite the hook. Internet forums are a great example of this. Anyone who stirs up the tempest in the teapot about this topic gets black listed and banned. The controversy seems to come in that one fact, these fish didn't bite. People take such offense to it and I just don't know why. I guess if you look at fishing like you would basketball or golf. In those sports the object is to get a ball through a hoop or in to a hole. In flossing the goal is to get the hook into the fish's mouth. Maybe that's the sport that I don't see.

The truth is that you can keep any fish that has been hooked -inside- the mouth, so it's not an illegal method so long as the fish is hooked inside the mouth. When I kept sockeye almost ten years ago now, they were all hooked inside the mouth so i know it's doable. I also know they didn't bite, but they were legal catches nonetheless. I choose not to floss fish. I believe the sport in sport fishing is in tricking or fooling a fish to bite. I would hope other make the same choice as me.

Now I'm off to the vedder in hopes of tricking a chinook to bite my jiggy, so i can have a nice bbq and some bait for sturgeon!

[Soady]

With that bit of history there are two camps which we as a group will fall into or as Bearpaw said divided against each other. I can live in the middle land with both camps and not pick either side as I have  done both as the quoted historian reported. He had fished both methods and he moved on to his preferred method and left the others to their methods. I understand both sides yet I choose not to ruin my day or someone else's day by preaching my mores to them and expect them to understand them.

Those values must be developed on an individual basis where education is the key not division, chastising, screaming, yelling and so on. And guess what it takes a long time to arrive in one camp to the other and some will never leave, those that will seem to choose the latter method of fishing and continue to educate the other camp quietly and respectfully.

[BOWHUNTER45]

I'm just trying to understand what the law really says? I wish a WDFW officer would comment on flossing.

Looking at the language in bold it seems that even if the fish is hooked outside the mouth, if you are fishing in fresh water and the fish is hooked anywhere on the head it is legal unless it can be proven the fish did not take the bait voluntarily.

Am I wrong?

Nope, you are reading it correctly.

I don't like laws like this, it really causes problems like you see in this topic of separating sportsmen and creating gray area, I wish they would use more precise language!

Any wording in the regs. that seem shady is written on purpose So they can write tickets ..You know ...that college stuff