Traditional Ammunition - Under Attack

[huntrights]

The purpose of this thread is to start documenting the continuing attacks on traditional (lead-based) ammunition.

Good Source for Reference:

Hunt for Truth
http://www.huntfortruth.org/

[huntrights]

"Colorado: Lead Ammunition Ban Defeated"
http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2014/11/colorado-ammunition-ban-defeated.aspx

[csaaphill]

hunting truth saved to favs thanks for the info.
I see that They are heading to Oregon now so Washington next.

[huntrights]

It's already started.

WDFW had a topic in their "View & Comment on Proposed Hunting Regulation Issues and Alternatives" opportunity that ended on 9-22-14.  The topic was titled "General Issues - Non-Toxic Ammunition".  People need to pay attention to attempts to manipulate public opinion.  Look at what just happened with I-594.

Below is part of a post from another thread in this forum regarding that topic:
"Last Chance to View & Comment on Proposed Hunting Regulation Issues"
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,161014.msg2123803.html#msg2123803

 

This topic appears to be setting the stage to ban traditional ammunition in Washington just as was recently done in California. However, the Golden Eagle is being used as the "poster child" in place of the California Condor.  The WDFW should present this subject in an honest and unbiased manner based on scientific facts and the actual conditions in Washington State.

The background information in the survey can strongly mislead the reader to believe high blood-lead levels in birds of prey are due to consuming spent lead from traditional ammunition.

Background Information given in the survey:
"A wide variety of birds may consume spent lead shot, resulting in increased mortalities and sublethal effects.  Birds of prey may ingest lead as they scavenge animals (e.g., deer) taken during hunting seasons.  In Washington, there is increasing evidence of lead consumption by golden eagles, a species of concern with low population levels (see Golden eagle ecology)."

Then what may guide the reader further down the path of believing traditional ammunition is the cause of high blood-lead levels in Golden Eagles is the link they provided to a webpage with a photo and chart that subliminally supports the blame on traditional ammunition.  The Raptor Ecology WDFW webpage (http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/research/projects/raptor/golden_eagle_ecology/) has a photo of an eagle standing over what appears to be a dead deer and a chart of blood-lead levels of Golden Eagles in WA; the viewer may be misled to conclude the source of lead in eagles is from spent traditional ammunition from harvested deer during hunting season. However, the text on the webpage correctly states that the sources of lead contamination in Golden Eagles in Washington are unknown.  If the sources of lead are unknown, why are they pointing an accusing finger at traditional (metallic lead) ammunition?

There are many sources of bioavailable lead that are found in the environment.
“Unlike metallic lead, industrial lead compounds are highly soluble. … The solubility of lead is an important factor in determining the relative bioavailability of the substance in an organism. Bioavailability refers to the manner and ease with which a substance can pass into an organism (after ingestion, inhalation or dermal exposure) and reach the systemic circulation, eliciting a response in the body (i.e. lead poisoning). Soluble forms of compounded lead in industrial products, such as leaded paint, gasoline and pesticides, are readily absorbed in the body and increase blood-lead levels significantly. In other words, the lead in industrial lead compounds is soluble and can readily be absorbed within biological systems, making them bioavailable to humans, plants and animals, and potentially causing lead poisoning.” (http://www.huntfortruth.org/science/alternative-sources-of-lead-in-the-environment/).

Let's think about this.  How much of a deer or elk gut pile will a bird of prey actually consume?  How about the wolves, cougar, bear, coyotes, etc.  If a bird of prey does eat some of a gut pile, what are the chances they will eat that one piece of meat that might have a piece of metallic lead in it?  If they do get a tiny piece of metallic lead, just how bioavailable and soluble is it and will it cause lead poising and/or high blood-lead levels?  Let's not let Washington follow the path of the California anti-gun, anti-hunting, and animal-rights extremists. 

This is not to question the scientific ability of WDFW biologists; it is about how information has been presented that appears questionable and seems to direct people toward an agenda of banning traditional ammunition just as it was done in California. 

Why aren't we paying attention to the facts?
"5 Yr. Lead Ammo Ban Fails To Reduce Levels of Lead In Condors"
"- Despite a 99% compliance rate by hunters, there has been no reduction in condor lead posioning during the 5 years that the lead ammunition ban has been in place within the condor corridor."
http://www.huntfortruth.org/5-year-lead-ban-fails-to-reduce-blood-lead-levels-in-california-condors/

Here is another interesting article about the California Condor:
http://www.huntfortruth.org/californias-pet-condors-now-in-living-color-2/

And more interesting reading:
http://www.huntfortruth.org/?s=condor+lead+poisoning

[Crunchy]

where else would the lead come from?  Seems logical that decades of shooting leadshot into rivers, lakes and fields would be the source.  Maybe I am missing something???

[csaaphill]

where else would the lead come from?  Seems logical that decades of shooting leadshot into rivers, lakes and fields would be the source.  Maybe I am missing something???

ya sounds like it!

[lokidog]

where else would the lead come from?  Seems logical that decades of shooting leadshot into rivers, lakes and fields would be the source.  Maybe I am missing something???

Yeah, you're missing something......  Lots of digging and diving by deer and elk happening out there.     Funny thing about lead shot is that it is HEAVY and will sink to the bottom of mud or gravel.  That's one reason you can't just pick up gold nuggets in streams and lakes......

[huntrights]

A key factor to consider is the bio-availability and solubility of the lead that is allegedly consumed.  For example, how many decades did we burn leaded gasoline in our vehicles?  What is the lead content of the soils on the sides of our roads that resulted from decades of using leaded gasoline?  Birds of prey may eat a lot of road-kill.  Are they eating contaminated soils along with the road kill?  Why don't these biologists that point an accusing finger at traditional ammunition look at these other sources of lead?  How bio-available is a tiny piece of metallic lead that a bird of prey has very little chance of consuming from a deer or elk gut pile?  Beware of the manipulation of public opinion when there are efforts to ban traditional ammunition.

Read these articles:
"Alternative Sources Of Lead In The Environment"
http://www.huntfortruth.org/science/alternative-sources-of-lead-in-the-environment/

5 Yr. Lead Ammo Ban Fails To Reduce Levels of Lead In Condors
http://www.huntfortruth.org/5-year-lead-ban-fails-to-reduce-blood-lead-levels-in-california-condors/

There is a significant anti-hunting element behind the push to ban traditional ammunition.  Don't be fooled like many people were with I-594.

[TONTO]

 Metalic lead in the water is not the same as a lead compound released in the water. Lead does not disolve in water. It just sinks and lays there.

[jay.sharkbait]

If this forces me to shoot barnes bullets, I'm gonna lose it!

[Fowlweather25]

  not ok!!!! Like, really lose it!

[JimmyHoffa]

Those birds have high levels of more than just lead.  Usually they have lead, cadmium and mercury.  I don't know of bullets using cadmium, and doubt anyone is using rounds with mercury (especially for hunting--been illegal for a while).  About the only place I can think of (sure someone on here might know of others) where the three seem to exist is smoke from coal plants.  Maybe the birds like to fly in the smoke or something. 

[huntrights]

Those birds have high levels of more than just lead.  Usually they have lead, cadmium and mercury.  I don't know of bullets using cadmium, and doubt anyone is using rounds with mercury (especially for hunting--been illegal for a while).  About the only place I can think of (sure someone on here might know of others) where the three seem to exist is smoke from coal plants.  Maybe the birds like to fly in the smoke or something. 

"Alternative Sources Of Lead In The Environment"
http://www.huntfortruth.org/science/alternative-sources-of-lead-in-the-environment/

[timberfaller]

Two groups to watch out for and reject!

One: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/

Two: The DNC!!!!!!  Brown nose'ers to the above group!

[Special T]

Well there are the old lead smelters that are in Wa history, and what about the mine in BC that flooded and washed mercury and other metals into the water... arent the fish in lake Roosevelt not fit for consumption because of these issues?