Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.

[idahohuntr]

As for the idea of giving the last 25% of the permits available to people who have been financially supporting the game department for the last 10-20 years?  What's wrong with that?  I support it even though it doesn't do much.

For sum reason we always have these newbies entering the hunting sport with this sense of entitlement that they should get the best tags within a few years of entering the draw. I feel the best tags should go to the people who are patient and keep putting in year after year.

I have not heard anyone suggest that the system should favor new applicants...folks mostly accept that giving the upper point holders 200-400 times greater odds of drawing is a sufficient advantage.  It seems like many folks are eager to look at ways to improve everyone's draw odds; and most of them are fully aware that doing so will require sacrifices. 

[lhrbull]

put all tag fees up front or just buy your PP would lower the number of applicants

[steeleywhopper]

i still think the best way to improve draw odds is to eliminate the categories. Go back to one app per species. I feel like a broken record here...  could throw in a 2 year wait tbough for good measure.

This will never happen because it will kill wdfws application cash cow.
[/quote]

I am all for this. I remember the days you had to wait 3 or 4 years to apply if you drew a big bull tag. You could not hunt on opening morning you had to wait till Monday to hunt if you applied for a special elk permit. Go back to 2 choices and a minimum 2 year wait to apply again if drawn. Sell all leftover permits on a first come first served basis like Wyoming does.

[Bango skank]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about doubling the spring bear tags up here, it's better than nothing.  BUT....  Wouldn't the state make just as much money, if not more, by selling separate spring and fall bear tags, and giving eastern Washington a two bear limit?  You buy a spring bear tag, and whether or not you fill it, you have to buy a fall bear tag if you want to hunt the fall season.  I would be buying two bear tags a year, every year, which means at least from me they would make more money than they do by charging me an application fee.  And I don't think I'm the only one who would buy two a year.  Seems like a system like that would accomplish increasing revenue, increasing hunter opportunity, and increasing bear harvest which would in turn increase the number of fawns / calfs that survive their first year, which in turn increases hunter opportunity yet again.

[huntnphool]

 I would assume that WDFW will "round down" for those 25% tags, just like they do for permit points?

 How are they going to handle the draw where there is only 1 tag available?

[whacker1]

I would assume that WDFW will "round down" for those 25% tags, just like they do for permit points?

 How are they going to handle the draw where there is only 1 tag available?

3- 4options:
1.  top/max  point holders gets that tag every year.
2.  or maybe that 1 tag only goes to the random pool
3.  first come first serve on the draw (assumes they draw first and then evaluate max point holders), and whoever draws/draws
4.  take the total pool of tags and make sure that only 25% go to max point holder as a collective rather than hunt by hunt or unit by unit.


It is not a well thought out plan just yet, so I would guess any of those 4 would be viable and possibly more options

[Special T]

You guys can discuss what color lipstick looks best, but its still going on a pig, not a supermodel!

[huntnphool]

You guys can discuss what color lipstick looks best, but its still going on a pig, not a supermodel!

 Agreed, just wondering if units with say 10 permits available will be allocated 2 tags for the top 25%, rounded down, or 3 tags to them, rounded up?

[Special T]

I quite buying those draw tags because its a joke. i understand why some of you still buy because your "vested". I think some of the odds you better playing the Lotto so that you can pay for a trip to Ak or BC and do a full guided hunt.

[JimmyHoffa]

I would assume that WDFW will "round down" for those 25% tags, just like they do for permit points?

 How are they going to handle the draw where there is only 1 tag available?

3- 4options:
1.  top/max  point holders gets that tag every year.
2.  or maybe that 1 tag only goes to the random pool
3.  first come first serve on the draw (assumes they draw first and then evaluate max point holders), and whoever draws/draws
4.  take the total pool of tags and make sure that only 25% go to max point holder as a collective rather than hunt by hunt or unit by unit.


It is not a well thought out plan just yet, so I would guess any of those 4 would be viable and possibly more options

or every fourth year only the top point holders are entered into the draw for that tag and everyone else just adds a point.

[idahohuntr]

They've provided no specifics and my take is they haven't put much thought into it...although they did look into whether they could implement it in the 2015 license season  (they can't).  It very much has the flavor "we have to pass it to find out whats in it" 

Hopefully they will do a little math themselves and figure out that what they are proposing is a bad joke.  I can see we have enough folks just on this forum that if we need to simulate how any change will affect the draw, point creep issues, etc. that we can probably provide a fairly strong, quantitative rebuttal.  The only way they can possibly support this vague proposal is if they have some really sound logic as to why a few top point holders are entitled to the states resources more than the several hundred percent draw odds increase they already enjoy.  I'm dying to here that justification, particularly in the context of recruitment and retention of hunters as outlined in the game management plan!!!

[huntnphool]

They've provided no specifics and my take is they haven't put much thought into it...although they did look into whether they could implement it in the 2015 license season  (they can't).  It very much has the flavor "we have to pass it to find out whats in it" 

Hopefully they will do a little math themselves and figure out that what they are proposing is a bad joke.  I can see we have enough folks just on this forum that if we need to simulate how any change will affect the draw, point creep issues, etc. that we can probably provide a fairly strong, quantitative rebuttal.  The only way they can possibly support this vague proposal is if they have some really sound logic as to why a few top point holders are entitled to the states resources more than the several hundred percent draw odds increase they already enjoy.  I'm dying to here that justification, particularly in the context of recruitment and retention of hunters as outlined in the game management plan!!!

[CarbonHunter]

I suppose the concept of simply changing the multiplier is just way to simple for our state to even consider.  Just changing it from 2 to 3 would greatly be benefit the top point holders and there wouldn't all this confusion as to how it would be implemented.

[Rainier10]

Hasn't the multiplier already improved the odds of the higher point holders?  Not taking a shot at your post Carbon, just saying in general the higher point guys already have a significant advantage in a drawing with dismal odds but they do still have it better.  If you want better odds put in for another state or by raffle tags.

[Bob33]

Hasn't the multiplier already improved the odds of the higher point holders?  Not taking a shot at your post Carbon, just saying in general the higher point guys already have a significant advantage in a drawing with dismal odds but they do still have it better.  If you want better odds put in for another state or by raffle tags.

There is no "multiplier" per se. Points are squared. Someone with 20 points has essentially 400 (20 times 20) names in the drawing hat. Someone with 10 points has 100 (10 times 10) names in the hat. Someone with one point has one name in the hat. The person with one name in the hat can draw, but the person with 20 points has a 400 times greater chance.