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Author Topic: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial  (Read 10665 times)

Offline bearpaw

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Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« on: February 02, 2015, 01:44:55 AM »
Wolf shooter turns down deal
Rathdrum man opts for jury trial

Quote
COEUR d'ALENE - The man who shot a wolf on Rathdrum Mountain turned down a plea deal offered by Kootenai County prosecutors that would have had him pay a $200 fine in exchange for a guilty plea.

He has opted instead for a jury trial.

"I said, 'Nope,'" Forrest Mize said shortly after his arraignment Tuesday morning. Prosecutor Barry McHugh confirmed the offer was made.
Mize is representing himself on the misdemeanor charge of possessing a wolf without a tag. He doesn't plan to hire an attorney at this stage.

"It's going to be really hard to find a jury in North Idaho that finds me guilty for shooting a wolf to save my stinking dogs," he said.

Mize, 53, shot the wolf Dec. 30 while he was out hiking in some fresh snow with his three dogs, all Labs, named Maggie, Jenny and Katie.

He was carrying a gun - a Kimber .22-caliber Hornet - with him for protection when he spotted the wolf, which he said looked like it was about to pounce on his pets. The dogs were 100 yards in front of him.

When he shot the wolf in the side through its heart, his three dogs were all close enough to be visible within the picture of his gun's scope, he said.
He bought a wolf hunting tag later that day for $11.50 at a Rathdrum pharmacy. He is not a trophy hunter, he said, but wanted to keep the pelt.

read more: http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_news/article_820326b1-aa8f-53ca-b1d6-692f105debc1.html
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Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2015, 06:23:27 AM »
He's "not a trophy hunter" but he wanted to keep the trophy.

He's not going to be convicted for killing the wolf or "trying to protect his dogs". Hes going to be convicted for trying to possess something he didn't have a license to possess. Had he immediately called Idaho F&G and turned it over, he wouldn't be in this mess.
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 07:02:04 AM »
I think the guy is screwed. He handled it wrong by trying to buy the tag without contacting IDFG. Not that I think he should, but he'll likely lose.
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Offline jamesfromseattle

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 07:15:07 AM »
Just out of curiosity: anyone know how law enforcement caught him?

Offline jasnt

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 07:18:48 AM »
He opened his mouth to the wrong people and was turned in
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

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Offline jackelope

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 07:59:07 AM »
Well. That was kinda dumb.
:fire.:

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Offline jasnt

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2015, 08:06:06 AM »
Loose lips sink ships
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline whacker1

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2015, 08:10:48 AM »
I found his response rather intriguing

Quote
"It's going to be really hard to find a jury in North Idaho that finds me guilty for shooting a wolf to save my stinking dogs," he said.

I am not saying he is wrong, but when you put it into context, he has a valid argument.  The public sentiment in North Idaho is pretty anti-wolf.   The stupid part even if you believe he is right, is that he doesn't plan to hire an attorney.  It is one thing to represent yourself for a traffic citation or possibly in small claims court, but it takes someone that is relatively learned in the process of going through Jury selection to handle a jury selection.  You need to be able to ask the right questions and know when to compromise and know when to dismiss potential jurors.  The prosecution has the advantage in this piece of the process. 

I would also suggest the Jury has to follow the law whether they like the case or not, so he is putting himself at some extreme risk.

I look forward to seeing how this plays out

Offline jasnt

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2015, 08:19:46 AM »
The guy doesn't seem too bright. I don't see it turning out well
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2015, 08:32:25 AM »
I found his response rather intriguing

Quote
"It's going to be really hard to find a jury in North Idaho that finds me guilty for shooting a wolf to save my stinking dogs," he said.

I am not saying he is wrong, but when you put it into context, he has a valid argument.  The public sentiment in North Idaho is pretty anti-wolf.   The stupid part even if you believe he is right, is that he doesn't plan to hire an attorney.  It is one thing to represent yourself for a traffic citation or possibly in small claims court, but it takes someone that is relatively learned in the process of going through Jury selection to handle a jury selection.  You need to be able to ask the right questions and know when to compromise and know when to dismiss potential jurors.  The prosecution has the advantage in this piece of the process. 

I would also suggest the Jury has to follow the law whether they like the case or not, so he is putting himself at some extreme risk.

I look forward to seeing how this plays out

Do they even use jury trials in Idaho for F&G violations? Or do you just go before a judge?
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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2015, 08:33:59 AM »
This has nothing to do with a wolf.  He didn't follow the license laws of the state.  Lots of folks would like to only buy a tag after they harvest something  :chuckle:  This isn't the kind of case where he will find a sympathy in N. Idaho...if the state was arguing it wasn't self defense or something...I could see it working for him.  The circumstances of this case...he will lose badly, as he should.
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Offline Curly

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2015, 08:51:52 AM »
Yep.  He should have taken the deal and been done with it.  The guy doesn't sound too bright. 

I'm also surprised about the adjective he used for his dogs......"stinkin'". :dunno:
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2015, 09:12:54 AM »
The guy doesn't seem too bright. I don't see it turning out well

Yeah, he should've taken the $200 fine.
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Offline pd

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2015, 10:25:17 AM »
I would also suggest the Jury has to follow the law whether they like the case or not, so he is putting himself at some extreme risk.

Not completely accurate.  His best defense is to appeal to the jury that the underlying statute(s) are unenforceable.  This is called "jury nullification," as has long been part of the English common law heritage.  See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

To be clear, the bench will be very hostile to any attempt to inform the jury of their prerogative to nullify the law!  The American justice system (both at the federal level and the state level) jealously guards against jury nullification.  New Hampshire alone specifically allows the defense to notify the jury of this traditional right.

I, too, will watch this with interest.  My best advice for him?  Tell the truth, all of it, and ask the jury to acquit.  If the judge is flexible, she will allow the defendant to make his case--and NOT tell the jury that they MUST find guilty if they believe he committed the crime.  Under the concept of jury nullification, even if the jury believes him guilty of the crime, they do not have to find him guilty if they believe his actions were justifiable.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2015, 08:24:00 AM »
I will be following this...

I would bet given the area that this will be used as a push back against the wolf issue choked down peoples throat. I bet he represents himself as an additional slap.

Do you wonder why the $20k reward has not caught the wolf "Poacher" in the NE? How do you think the farmer that shot the wolf Near Pullman is going to work out? 2 can play the "Game"
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Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2015, 08:52:06 AM »
Seems pretty cut and dried to me.  No problem killing a wolf to protect his dogs.  Buying a tag after the fact and trying to pass it off as a legal harvest - problem. 
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline Hoythunter

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2015, 08:56:51 AM »
I'm a firm believer that your first loss is your best loss; this guy should've taken his beating and moved on.  He's screwed in my opinion.

Offline Special T

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2015, 01:54:57 PM »
Seems pretty cut and dried to me.  No problem killing a wolf to protect his dogs.  Buying a tag after the fact and trying to pass it off as a legal harvest - problem.

Im inclined to agree.

That said i think that people in N ID are going overlook his transgressions as a way to send a message to the powers that be... THAT is why im so interested in following this.
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Offline carpsniperg2

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2015, 02:12:51 PM »
I don't think he understands. No one has a problem with him saving his dogs. It's the 2nd part, him buying a tag and trying to keep it that he is in trouble for. He should have just paid the dang fine because he did break the law and move on.
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2015, 02:18:09 PM »
I'm betting he is right, I seriously doubt a entire jury in that area will find him guilty. :dunno:
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Offline b0bbyg

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2015, 02:26:35 PM »
I would also suggest the Jury has to follow the law whether they like the case or not, so he is putting himself at some extreme risk.

Not completely accurate.  His best defense is to appeal to the jury that the underlying statute(s) are unenforceable.  This is called "jury nullification," as has long been part of the English common law heritage.  See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

To be clear, the bench will be very hostile to any attempt to inform the jury of their prerogative to nullify the law!  The American justice system (both at the federal level and the state level) jealously guards against jury nullification.  New Hampshire alone specifically allows the defense to notify the jury of this traditional right.

I, too, will watch this with interest.  My best advice for him?  Tell the truth, all of it, and ask the jury to acquit.  If the judge is flexible, she will allow the defendant to make his case--and NOT tell the jury that they MUST find guilty if they believe he committed the crime.  Under the concept of jury nullification, even if the jury believes him guilty of the crime, they do not have to find him guilty if they believe his actions were justifiable.

Yeah I was on a jury selection once and got in an argument with the judge about Jury Nullification. He was trying to convince me that it was not my place as a juror to judge a law.  Thought they would never select me but I was wrong. Three days later I was done. :chuckle:
But three days was not too bad, The guy peddling drugs outside the school area was locked in a room for much longer...
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2015, 02:27:08 PM »
I think he does understand, but I think he thinks because his drinking buddies at the bar have ALL told him it's a load of bull, he can convince a sober group of jurors of the same.
I predict he is going to bury himself out of ignorance, and play the martyr later.  Any man who represents himself in a court of law has a fool for a client.

It's too bad, too, since a $200 fine is really an olive branch being offered by a prosecutor who probably doesn't want to prosecute an unpopular crime like this.  He publicly turned it down, so he'll be publicly made an example of.    :twocents:
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2015, 02:34:29 PM »
I will be following this...

I would bet given the area that this will be used as a push back against the wolf issue choked down peoples throat. I bet he represents himself as an additional slap.

Do you wonder why the $20k reward has not caught the wolf "Poacher" in the NE? How do you think the farmer that shot the wolf Near Pullman is going to work out? 2 can play the "Game"

This is a completely different scenario from the $20K wolf. The man shot a game animal, not a protected animal, and tried to cover up the kill after the fact. If he was really protecting his dogs, what need was there to cover it up and buy a tag later? A mentally-challenged prosecutor should be able to get a guilty verdict on this guy.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2015, 05:18:51 PM »
Pman the point i was trying to make is that I belive the same Motivation for not "outing" the wolf poacher would be the one aquitting the guy in ID.

In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

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Offline Dan-o

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2015, 05:34:19 PM »
He should have paid the fine......   I think he's screwed.
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Offline idaho guy

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2015, 07:08:00 PM »
He's "not a trophy hunter" but he wanted to keep the trophy.

He's not going to be convicted for killing the wolf or "trying to protect his dogs". Hes going to be convicted for trying to possess something he didn't have a license to possess. Had he immediately called Idaho F&G and turned it over, he wouldn't be in this mess.


 :yeah: I was behind this guy at first but he is being a dink. He did everything right- up until trying to turn the wolf in on a tag he bought AFTER killing the wolf. I think everyone should shoot as many wolves as legally possible.  I dont think he gets that the jury will support shooting the wolf but not breaking the law to keep the hide. He will be convicted and should have taken the 200 dollar slap on the wrist.         

Offline Bob33

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2015, 07:11:10 PM »
I will be surprised if he is not convicted.
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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2015, 07:36:34 PM »
A $200 fine was a great deal for him, and then it would have been over. I can't believe he didn't take it. You would never get off for that cheap in Washington for killing a wolf.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2015, 08:34:35 AM »
Seems pretty cut and dried to me.  No problem killing a wolf to protect his dogs.  Buying a tag after the fact and trying to pass it off as a legal harvest - problem.

Agree...if he just left well enough alone and killed the wolf to protect his dogs, he probably would've been fine.
Call IDFG, say hey...this wolf just tried to hamstring my dog so I shot it to protect them.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.
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Offline Curly

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2015, 09:23:48 AM »
Yeah.  And if he really wanted a wolf pelt, after reporting the killing of the wolf while protecting his dogs, he should have simply bought a wolf tag or two and waited for another opportunity at a wolf. 

Pretty stupid of him not to have a wolf tag or two while he's out walking around in wolf country anyway.
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Offline BOWHUNTER45

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2015, 09:40:18 AM »
The best thing this guy could have done is want a jury trial ...let them run the system to see what will come of it ..by saying you want a jury trial will definitely turn the table ...Never surrender to the law without a fight ...they want you to plead guilty , that's the cheapest way for them to convict you ! I can not take the side of anyone who is running with the wolf !  :twocents:

Offline jasnt

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2015, 10:02:30 AM »
The best thing this guy could have done is want a jury trial ...let them run the system to see what will come of it ..by saying you want a jury trial will definitely turn the table ...Never surrender to the law without a fight ...they want you to plead guilty , that's the cheapest way for them to convict you ! I can not take the side of anyone who is running with the wolf !  :twocents:
i agree. I just don't like the idea of him representing him self unless he has a strong knowledge of the law. If he dosent a good prosecuter will tear him down quickly
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 11:13:09 AM by jasnt »
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2015, 10:57:21 AM »
The best thing this guy could have done is want a jury trial ...let them run the system to see what will come of it ..by saying you want a jury trial will definitely turn the table ...Never surrender to the law without a fight ...they want you to plead guilty , that's the cheapest way for them to convict you ! I can not take the side of anyone who is running with the wolf !  :twocents:


 I agree. Considering his location he may have a chance at jury nullification. Also....more people should demand jury trials. The court system has limited resources and if everyone made them spend the money for a trial, they would be forced to stop pestering us with petty things. They would be forced to focus in real crime. I agree make them work for it. If i was on his juslry he would not be convicted of anything for shooting a menace or keeping its dead shell.

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2015, 11:07:16 AM »
If i was on his juslry he would not be convicted of anything for shooting a menace or keeping its dead shell.
I suspect that attitude would come out in voir dire and the potential juror would not be selected.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2015, 11:14:04 AM »
Representing ones self usually doesn't end well, especially with no prior legal training. Most wind up hiring an attorney in the end. Most notable case as of late that I remember was DC area sniper John Allen Mohammed. Again, he wound up turning it over to an attorney.

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2015, 11:27:03 AM »
 I live  ten minutes from Rathdrum Mountain. My kids all go to Rathdrum schools. This guy does not have as many people on his side as he thinks. I have shot 1 wolf and want to shoot and trap as many as possible. They are just not easy to kill. It surprises me how dumb this one sounded. Fish & Game is fine with him shooting the wolf, everyone I know would have shot that wolf.  I think Fish & game would be good with him shooting the wolf without his dogs being threatened. I would be happy if he shot the wolf out of season and just followed the sss principle. I think most would agree with me. All he had to do was shut up about it and not brag to all his buddies. Even after that he still tried to buy the tag after the fact and he screwed up. I am one 100% pissed about the wolf situation but this guy is still being a dink and thats why I think he will be convicted.       

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Re: Wolf shooter turns down deal, Rathdrum man opts for jury trial
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2015, 05:31:39 AM »
If i was on his juslry he would not be convicted of anything for shooting a menace or keeping its dead shell.
I suspect that attitude would come out in voir dire and the potential juror would not be selected.

I dont know why you would suspect that. Considering that i already know the judges lie to jurors about thier right and abilty to judge the law as well as the defendants actions, and considering the prosecution would surely weed out anyone who wont co-operate with thier legal farce, i would appear vanilla, average, and un-interesting.   I would not wear my "live free or die" shirt and a confederate hat.   Maybe just dress like everyone else and play along. I have been in on a few jury pools that never made it to trial but i was in the selected group. Its not hard.   

 


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