what would you have done different?

[deerhunter_98520]

here is a situation that happened to me this last sept archery hunt on the wetside....ive played this over and over in my head and not sure where i went wrong, if i did this wrong or it just wasnt meant to be....if you were in this situation what would you have done different?

its early sept and 2 evenings before we had a couple bulls bugling in this same transition area from bedding to feeding area...it was a gathering area every evening for alot of elk......its all reprod and very thick.....they would move up from the bedding area and congregate in this valley...from what i can guess there was 2 herd bulls in the area....one would come right into the middle of this reprod with this cows and the other i only heard once....the 2 days before this all happened i had a couple bulls bugling back and forth with me for a good half hour to an hour and then what i think was the second herd bull let out the deepest nastiest bugle i have ever heard and all of the other bulls shut up and would not bugle or make a sound after that...it was pretty awsome to experience this....he came up to the edge of the timber and ripped off this bugle and never came any closer...it was like he was the boss of the valley and came over and told everyone to shut up and that was it for that evening...fast forward to 2 days later and it was about 4 hrs before sundown and i slowly sneak into this area and get settled in where i have a few 40yd shooting lanes and my buddy is just another 80 yds away and setup...i start cow calling and do this off and on for about 2 hours with no answers....i decided to try some excited estruss calls to get a bull to answer and wow did that work....not even 10 seconds after i did my first set of calls i hear a freight train coming through the reprod...he stops about 150 yds away and i can hear him making noise but cant figure out what hes doing....about about 20 min of this i realize he is tearing up trees and i get down out of my setup which is a big rootwad to get some height  and see into the reprod for better shooting...i move up to my buddy and tell him that bull is tearing up trees and were moving in on him....by this time he has moved off into the reprod farther and i told my buddy to stay close im going to charge him...im going to run 40 yds and tear up some trees and challenge him...i will be under 60 yds when we stop so be ready.....we run up and and i start thrashing on a tree and rip off a bugle at him and about 60-70 yds i can hear him demolishing a tree...this went back and forth for probably close to 45 min...i bet he tore up 12 trees....this stuff was quite the jungle to get through and shooting lanes were scarce at this point and light was fading...i told my buddy to climb up ontop of this brush pile so he could have  a better advantage point and im moving in closer....i start sneaking in closer and get in between my buddy and the bull and i signal to him to bugle and he lets out a bugle and before the other bull could do anything i did some soft cow calls hoping to get the bull to come in and snatch up a cow that wandered to far away and he came right in to 15yds but i had no shot and could not see him....i could hear him breathing he was so close but he would not step out of the brush and show himself and thats where that ended....we had a standoff till it was getting too dark to see and i had to work my way out without spooking him...he continued to tear up trees while i  made my way out....not sure what i could have done different or if i could have done anything different but it was one of the funnest times i have had in the elk woods.

[Tbar]

Popping grunt and a stomp? 

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Not sure that you could of.  In the thick nasty stuff it is very hard to make a shot happen.  Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.  Its tough to make them show themselves sometimes.  They are generally right where they want to be.  Maybe if you had more time in the day, he would have moved around more and presented a shot.  That's hunting though.

[tonymiller7]

Sounds like you did just about everything you could, sometimes you just never get a shot.

[deerhunter_98520]

Popping grunt and a stomp? 

nope never heard any...the wind was in our favor the whole time also....i did everything i knew to do thanks to elknut1...his calling cds got me in the postion i was in..thanks paul...very very helpful  i just always second guess what ive done if it doesnt work out and try to learn for the next time what i could have done different if the situation presents itself again

[Tbar]

I can tell you I have had your scenario play out many times.  So many times that I called Paul very frustrated a few years ago.  I would have them stop in the most inopportune places behind the thickest brush and it would end there.  Now I'm far from an expert but I'll share my experience. Aggression is rewarded, I would have first tried a popping grunt to get him to move(our two).  I then would have ripped a loud but short bugle followed by almost a whine (I'm trying to imitate sounds I've heard elk make in this situation). Paul could better explain what I heard and what I'm doing,  but both of those have worked for me.   

[Tbar]

Another thing is a simple stomp (by the hunter) if you are pinned will invoke a reaction by the elk.  This is also a behavior I've witnessed and tried with success.  I do quite a bit of observation and see the stomp for many reactions, I even saw it yesterday by a bull to control another bull(he herded a smaller bull that was straying a little too far). Again I'm no expert just sharing experience.

[4fletch]

Pm sent

[buglebrush]

You never know, but sometimes the thing to do is one of you leave.  Make a lot of noise, and lots of whiny cow calls with some grunts and pants.  Make it sound like a bull is driving a cow away against her will.  I've had that work.

[coachcw]

maybe try to flank his down wind , sometimes if you bugle threw his bugle he will confront. my guess is he didn't want to leave his cows.

[pianoman9701]

Make even more noise, maybe use a decoy or two. A lot can be said for stomping around and pretending you're a moving elk.

[HornHoarder]

Sounds like you played it well. If I was fairly sure he wasn't coming in, sneek in on him. When he is thrashing trees, is when I'd make my move. You can tell where he is at by the noise he is making, and his attention is focused on killing the tree. Keep an eye out for the cows though.

[kentrek]

couple things in your story pop out to me

1...your buddy crawled  up onto a vantage point...that's great if he's the shooter but if he's calling than being down on the ground and able to flank left/right to swing the bull into the shooter is pretty important in my world

2...if your 15 yards and have a hard time shooting that means it's pretty dang thick...you never mentioned  how far back your caller was but in very thick stuff the caller needs to be just out of site from the bull even if that's only 10 yards from the shooter...as the caller I like to watch my shooter...i can see him move,draw,shoot, let down and so on...and I will call accordingly..also setting up this close to each other you won't waste time sitting there wondering  what's going on and can move in accordingly if he hangs up

3.....you called....while it sounds like it's exactly  what the bull wanted,as he came in, he prolly was wondering where the cow was....if your caller isn't doing what ya want and you feel you have to call move forward at least 15 yards...but always try an have a solid plan with your caller...working together is key 

Just some things that I noticed that I'd have done differently, but hard telling if it would have done the trick. ..sounds like an awesome  experience  !

[deerhunter_98520]

That's kinda a catch 22 with the guys I'm huntin with....I'm the only one that knows half way how to call...sure they can blow on a call....I told him what to do and when to do it....he didn't call but once or twice from the brush pile up high...I told him to get up there so he could have some shooting lanes...there was 2 40yd lanes from where he was and if the bull would have worked his way around up wind which I thought there was a good chance of he would of had a shot...I had a lot of options covered between the 2 of us...but I always like others opinions on what they would have done different....he was also within eyesight of me too being up so high for part of the time anyways until I got behind some brush....I also had a Montana decoy but I left it where I was originally setup with 60yd shooting lanes in a few different directions but he would not come out of the thick stuff and show himself....he also did not have any cows with him...I believe he was just a satalite but I could care less as long as he was legal....also this bull didn't bugle...he just came charging in and tore up trees after I did some whining estruss calls

[coachcw]

When I call by myself I always move after my call to not get pinned.I find often bulls like to pose .. he was in his comfort zone

[deerhunter_98520]

I never thought about moving after calling...it's a good idea thanks

[coachcw]

Bulls have a uncanny ability to locate  you when you call ... if you move 20 or 30 yards latterly after you call  you have a much better chance of fooling him. Plus when he try to get down wind you will have the drop on him. I have found its much easier to attack a bull from the side aswell  you can get him to come up hill but the frontal shot is most likely  . Calling elk is trial and error but if you mimick him and stay agressive good things happen more often than not. If he is coming hard draw as soon as you see antler tips and settle in  better to have to let down vs drawing while he is on top of you.

[RadSav]

Cardinal sin for me has been stopping to call when I do not have shooting lanes.  That's always when the bull charges in close and then you can not move!  That's a good way to bust a bull out of a regular spot for the season.  IMO it is better to not get a shot but be in the right spot for one than to press into a spot where you still can't get a shot but you spook them out.  Doesn't sound like you busted him out, but I think that was luck based upon your story. 

Of course I am a sinner too!  I do not have enough fingers on my hands to count the number of times I've gone against my own rules and done the exact same thing as you.  I'm obviously a slow learner   But, I still go into any calling situation trying to keep myself in control and following the rule of never stopping to call unless I have shooting lanes.

Sounds like you had a great time.  That's the important stuff.  Even Will Primos gets stuck when hunting all those private ranches and limited pressure.  Remember that Montana Monster when he is stuck in that spiderweb of a tree bramble?  Happens to the best.  Just enjoy the experience, learn from our mistakes and keep on hunting

[deerhunter_98520]

This was by far my best season I have ever had and I never drew my bow on an elk....got my first grouse with my bow though to only have that upstaged by my friend with a 5x5 bull when I was cleaning the grouse...I was pretty pumped to have a grouse for dinner and then i get a text bull down! I keep getting closer and closer every year and this year I actually had several in bow range just no shot....so I must be doin something right 

[coachcw]

That's hunting 

[deerhunter_98520]

Yup and I live for it  if it wasn't for having a family I'd probably live in the woods  and give mick dodge a run for his money

[RadSav]

I keep getting closer and closer every year and this year I actually had several in bow range just no shot....so I must be doin something right 

Sure sounds like you are   And then when you get that first one they should come fast and regular after that.  Finding them is the hard part and it seems as though you have that down like a veteran elk guru.

Love shooting grouse with my bow!  I've even screwed up a few good elk hunts shooting a grouse with elk looking at me.  Make sure to look 360 before shooting a grouse

[deerhunter_98520]

I seen a lot of grouse last year and passed on a lot of shots for that reason and when this one stood at 20yds and walked towards me like he didn't care I couldn't pass on a fire roasted grouse dinner 

[RadSav]

I seen a lot of grouse last year and passed on a lot of shots for that reason and when this one stood at 20yds and walked towards me like he didn't care I couldn't pass on a fire roasted grouse dinner 

I keep one of those Top Romin season packets in my JetBoil just in case some grouse wants to commit suicide before lunch.  Not as good as a fire roasted bird, but better than what I usually have for lunch!

[Elknut1]

Deer hunter, all things considered I think you did very well, you got creative & aggressive when unsure what was going on, aggressive action kills elk! Heck, you were 15 yards from the bull, that's a great accomplishment in itself! I really like the fact that at the last part you got between your buddy (the caller) & the real bull & cow called as if you were choosing him over the bull (your buddy) you were with. This painted a picture in the real bulls minds-eye that this other bull was trying to call his cow back but you (the cow) wanted this new guy instead, this gave the real bull the confidence & assurance he was going to hook this new cow up, very nice! I've used this many times in the past & it works well, don't discount it in the future just because you didn't tag the bull, in many cases it's advantage hunter when terrain isn't too thick & you do tag him! (grin)--- As Tbar mentioned the Popping/Nervous Grunt can be a dynamite sound to use to get that bull to step out when nothing else works! The reason for its use is it asks an "action" out of other elk, it means they want a visual or identification of them, that sound alone has put close to 30 elk on the ground over the years for us. Like anything else it's right time right place with its use! (grin)

  On another note of interest in your great detailed description of how the bull reacted to your excited cow calling & came to a certain spot & started raking trees is the reason he did it? In your story you mentioned to this point you had only cow called, this shows that when you fired this bull up & he came your way to this spot he started to Display for this cow to come on over, he was inviting you to him. His raking was not symbolizing a challenge, it was an invite! Bulls will do this to show off or impress an interested cow to come closer & check him out as a possible breeder when the time is right. I've had many bulls do this over the years, when possible with good wind & cover I go right at them & give them what they're asking for "the cow" -- I do this while calling excitedly showing him I'm coming, you can make all the noise you want at this time as he feels it's the cow coming as he's asking her to! Since he's raking & the cover is good these bulls will allow you to walk right on top of them as long as you don't let them see or smell you!

  This photo here is a bull I took where I was a 150 yards out when he asked me to come his way after cow calling, he was raking  trees exactly as you described in your story, I slipped into 17 yards and arrowed him! I call this "Reading A Situation" When you can do this it means you know the message he is sending out & you act accordingly! -- I really enjoyed your story & certainly chalk it up to a successful call in! Very nice!

  ElkNut1

 

[deerhunter_98520]

Thanks for all the advice and its nice to know I'm doin it right....the only reason i did what I did was your calling CDs ....I've tried to memorize the entire thing and has helped me get on elk and get alot closer....being aggressive the last few years instead of passive had made elk hunting way more fun and exciting...there's been too many times before I knew better that I probably could have killed elk but I wasn't aggressive....I was just waiting for the bull to come to me....at the time doing the popping grunt never even crossed myind with him being in range for so long I figured I would get an opportunity but lack of daylight ended that for me

[coachcw]

If a bull is answering to cow calls I leave the bugle alone

[RadSav]

Wow Elknut1!  What an excellent post

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

When I get into a bull as you did in the thick stuff that is success. 15yrds is close! Just to do that is a successfull hunt in my book. Lots of good pointers to keep in mind for this season!

[deerhunter_98520]

I take all advice and store it in my brain  15 yds with a 800-1000 lb bull is very close..they breath very loud