New AR15 caliber...

[h20hunter]

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/field-test/new-ar-round-the-25-45-sharps?dom=fas&loc=hottestblogs&lnk=new-ar-round-the-2545-sharps

Interesting. Anyone have any experience or insight into this. I'm a fan of AR's. I find them fun to shoot and very versatile. For the reloader this looks like one that your .223 case being simply necked up could catch on.

Opinions? I'd think for deer sized game this could be a decent round if you don't stretch it out much.

[grundy53]

Tagging I've heard this new round mentioned but no specifics.

[Special T]

Is it difficult or expensive to "Neck Up" to 25 cal"? I dont reload.

Is there a die available or do you have to fire form it?

[Curly]

Sounds like a great cartridge to me. 

Comparable ballistics to a .250 Savage is appealing.

[JimmyHoffa]

Is it difficult or expensive to "Neck Up" to 25 cal"? I dont reload.

Is there a die available or do you have to fire form it?

Should be pretty easy from .224 to .257.  Don't think an intermediate die would be needed.  Probably not a lot of neck to work with needing trimming, turning.

[Special T]

So is it possible that an existing neck flaring tool could do the work?

[ELKBURGER]

I'm surprised they didn't stop at .24. There is a wide variety of .24/6mm bullets out there.

[JimmyHoffa]

So is it possible that an existing neck flaring tool could do the work?

Since it is semi-auto (AR), you'd likely want to full length resize.  So possible to use new or annealed and FL resize, then neck resize for .257 for the first load.  Then need FL dies for future.  If running in a bolt gun, just neck size.

[headshot5]

I'm surprised they didn't stop at .24. There is a wide variety of .24/6mm bullets out there.

They already have the 6X45mm and 6.5X45mm that work in the AR-15 platform (223 necked up to 6mm and 6.5mm).   

[BULLBLASTER]

This and the 6mm-223 have been wildcatted for years. Just now a ammo company picked it up and is mRketing it?  Biggerhammer was posting about building a 6mm-223 for a while but i think he changed his mind.

[headshot5]

Interesting. Anyone have any experience or insight into this. I'm a fan of AR's.

I've used similar in TC contenders.  6mm tcu, 25 TCU (also called 25 copperhead), 6.5mm TCU, and 7mm TCU.  All are made off of 223 brass.  They work awesome for deer and I've taken an elk with the 7mm TCU.  They are a really fun round. 

The non-improved versions are used in AR-15's, 6X45mm and 6.5X45mm.  You can hit some pretty awesome speeds with them, and are great rounds.  Using 223 brass is huge for reloaders, it makes it nice.

[BULLBLASTER]

I'm surprised they didn't stop at .24. There is a wide variety of .24/6mm bullets out there.

They already have the 6X45mm and 6.5X45mm that work in the AR-15 platform (223 necked up to 6mm and 6.5mm).   

beat me to it.. 

[NW-GSP]

Why not just build a 6.5 creedmore ar

[CP]

So I can just pop one of these uppers onto an AR and i have a legal big game rifle?

[headshot5]

So I can just pop one of these uppers onto an AR and i have a legal big game rifle?

Yeah it'd be legal for big game in Washington (.243 minimum diameter). 

[ELKBURGER]

Very cool info. Thanks guys

[NW-GSP]

I'm running a 6.8 spc Ar. .270 bullet out of a 30 caliber case.

[luvmystang67]

I see your .25 and raise you a 6.5 Grendel...

On a serious note, I don't know why they think this would be more popular than the other AR offerings currently in existence...

[swashington2128]

One other caliber to think about is the 300 blackout. It is a 223/556 trimmed down below the neck and then resized to give it a new neck. The advantage with this one is you can use the same lower and magazines as the 223/556. I reload these using 150 gr Sierra Game King bullets and get good power/penetration and good ballistics at least to 200 yards. Shoot it out of a an AR with a suppressor and you have a silent deer killing machine.

All of the shots I have taken at deer in both East and Western WA have been under 50 yards and this is perfect for that. If you want to go crazy you can load a 200gr bullet and get subsonic and really be quiet in the woods.

Building an upper is simple also. Just order the barrel and everything else is the same. Same upper, gas block/tubes, and barrel nut. The only thing different between your AR 223/556 and 300 BLKOUT uppers is the barrel and the threading for the flash-suppressor because of the diameter of the barrel.

Keeps this a pretty inexpensive way of doing things.

[6.8mmARHunter]

Lots of options...

There's also something called the .277 Wolverine.

.556 Case, necked up to .277.

Check the web site:

http://www.maddogweapons.com/277-wolverine.html


I run a 6.8mm SPC II and a .458 SOCOM, so I don't have room in the safe for yet another. I need a bigger safe.

[mountainman]

Caliber has been around for a long time in the TCU offerings. Great conversions in rifle. Hunted with one of the first prototyoes from Blackhole Weaponry in 6mm-223. Super accurate and easy to reload. Shot lots of chucks, and worked on a midling bear.the .25 should prove no different. The TCU line works best for big game with the lighter varmint bullets at the lower velocities

[WoodlandShooter]

My 243WSSM AR does a good job!!!

[AWS]

One minor correction.  The "25 Copperhead" is based on the 222 Rem, Wooters built it with the longer neck case to run cast bullets and still give him plenty of room in his small Sako action.

Years ago I looked at a bunch of 25 cal Cats on the small bolt face from the 25-222 Rem to the 25-50 on the 5.6x50Mag case

The year after the 204 Ruger was introduced I necked it up to 25 cal to clone the 257 Kimber without having to do any fireforming.  It has become my goto deer rifle.  I did it on the cheap and used a 204 Ruger  Redding Type "S"  FL Bushing die with the guts changed out to .257 and a slight openning of the throat of the die for the larger neck of the 25. I use the same die to load the 22-204, 6mm-204 and the 25-204 by just changing out the expander ball and bushing.  If the 25x45 Sharps is on a standard 223 case you could do the same with a 223 bushing die..

If I were going to try and build another 25 on a Mini Mauser or CZ 527 I'd look seriously at the 25x39 on the 7.62x39 case.  Both actions are availible with the correct bolt face for the 7.62x39.

On an AR-15 platform that doesn't have boltface or case diameter restrictions the WSSM case would be the way to go with the 25 WSSM matching what you can get out of the 25-06.

[300rum]

6.5 Creedmoor is on a .308 platform.  Your probably thinking 6.5 Grendel? 

Why not just build a 6.5 creedmore ar

[slm9s]

I see your .25 and raise you a 6.5 Grendel...

+1

[WoodlandShooter]

yup, the WSSM has it's benefits in a AR, but the brass and factory rouds are almost non_existant.

However, being able to push a 105 A-MAx to 3075 FPS in a lightweight semi-auto rifle that has no recoil (put a PRI Muzzle brake on mine) is freakin cool!!

[Netminder01]

tag

[Biggerhammer]

Like mentioned earlier in the thread the 25x45 has been around a looooong time. I have built several, it's a fun chambering and of course limited in performance due to the case size.  I just couldn't take a AR laying around with a 6x45 barrel on it, so I swapped it out to a .264 LBC/ 6.5 Grendel. Next go around, I'll go .243 LBC due to the bullet selection and BC.

[yorketransport]

I love the fact that a lot of the "new" chamberings offered in the AR are just re-branded wildcats. My first thought when I saw this was that they should have gone all out and just improved the case to make it a true 25 TCU. I have to bite my tongue every time somebody asks me what I think of the "new" 300 Blackout.

If only somebody could come out with a new/unique cartridge for the AR platform that could throw a bullet with a BC of .5 or better at 2700 fps from a 20-22" barrel. I might even consider owning an AR then!

Andrew

[JimmyHoffa]

You can get an AR-10 that should do what you ask.

[fly-by]

If only somebody could come out with a new/unique cartridge for the AR platform that could throw a bullet with a BC of .5 or better at 2700 fps from a 20-22" barrel. I might even consider owning an AR then!

Andrew

LR-308 in .260 or 6.5 Creeedmoor.  7.9lbs with light profile 20" barrel and carbon fiber handguard.  Not that much bigger/heavier than an AR-15.  This one is in .260.

[jay.sharkbait]

If only somebody could come out with a new/unique cartridge for the AR platform that could throw a bullet with a BC of .5 or better at 2700 fps from a 20-22" barrel. I might even consider owning an AR then!

Andrew

Yes, that would be really cool

[B.G.hunter]

You can get an AR-10 that should do what you ask.

I think the AR-10 style is the future of the AR market.  More manufactures are making parts and prices are coming down.

[NW-GSP]

If only somebody could come out with a new/unique cartridge for the AR platform that could throw a bullet with a BC of .5 or better at 2700 fps from a 20-22" barrel. I might even consider owning an AR then!

Andrew

LR-308 in .260 or 6.5 Creeedmoor.  7.9lbs with light profile 20" barrel and carbon fiber handguard.  Not that much bigger/heavier than an AR-15.  This one is in .260.

I've been trying to decide on buying a bolt action 6.5 creedmore or building a 6.5 creedmore AR

[grundy53]

I hope you're right. I really want to build a 6.5 Creedmoor.

[luvmystang67]

Having used both, I'm a huge fan of the AR-15 platform in lieu of the AR-10 platform due to size and weight.  Sure a .308 is nice and useful, but especially for hunting applications, this is a bit more than I think most people want to lug around.  The 6.5 grendel in the ar-15 platform is, in my opinion, the best of all worlds.  Low recoil, good for deer and maybe black bear sized game and smaller.  Probably a little light for elk.  Shells are getting pretty cheap... $0.35 a round for 6.5 right now for wolf ammo.

.308 is right in the same price ballpark, but its just a lot to carry that isn't needed most of the time.

Everyone's got their own thing though...

[JimmyHoffa]

Yorke, There are AR-15s (not 10s) that chamber .243 WSSM.  There are .243 bullets that are .5+ BC, and the cartridge should exceed your 2700 even with the short 20 in barrel.

[grundy53]

Having used both, I'm a huge fan of the AR-15 platform in lieu of the AR-10 platform due to size and weight.  Sure a .308 is nice and useful, but especially for hunting applications, this is a bit more than I think most people want to lug around.  The 6.5 grendel in the ar-15 platform is, in my opinion, the best of all worlds.  Low recoil, good for deer and maybe black bear sized game and smaller.  Probably a little light for elk.  Shells are getting pretty cheap... $0.35 a round for 6.5 right now for wolf ammo.

.308 is right in the same price ballpark, but its just a lot to carry that isn't needed most of the time.

Everyone's got their own thing though...

I built my dad a 6.5 Grendel. I love that thing. That's on my list of ARs I'm going to build myself.

[yorketransport]

Yorke, There are AR-15s (not 10s) that chamber .243 WSSM.  There are .243 bullets that are .5+ BC, and the cartridge should exceed your 2700 even with the short 20 in barrel.

I forgot about those! Anyone have any word on the durability of the WSSM uppers?

As far as the AR-10, they're just big enough to be too much. I'm only luke warm on the AR-15 because of the size and weight. The newer AR-10s are better, but still not doing it for me.

[Yondering]

LR-308 in .260 or 6.5 Creeedmoor.  7.9lbs with light profile 20" barrel and carbon fiber handguard.  Not that much bigger/heavier than an AR-15.  This one is in .260.

OK, fess up, that 7.9lb has to be without the scope & mount, or the bipod, right? That thing has to be close to 11 lb as pictured.

[fly-by]

LR-308 in .260 or 6.5 Creeedmoor.  7.9lbs with light profile 20" barrel and carbon fiber handguard.  Not that much bigger/heavier than an AR-15.  This one is in .260.

OK, fess up, that 7.9lb has to be without the scope & mount, or the bipod, right? That thing has to be close to 11 lb as pictured.

Yes, 7.9lbs bare.  Everyone will accessorize differently.  When I used it for High Power it just had irons and a sling and was less than 8.5.  My point was you are only starting out about 1.5 lbs heavier with the base rifle.  It's not my first choice to carry on a long hike but works great for camping out and glassing a big cut.   

I recently e-filed a form 1 to build a 10.5" SBR in 300 Blackout which will wear nothing but an Eothech.  Expect it to come in well under 7lbs loaded. 

[lamrith]

LR-308 in .260 or 6.5 Creeedmoor.  7.9lbs with light profile 20" barrel and carbon fiber handguard.  Not that much bigger/heavier than an AR-15.  This one is in .260.

OK, fess up, that 7.9lb has to be without the scope & mount, or the bipod, right? That thing has to be close to 11 lb as pictured.

Yes, 7.9lbs bare.  Everyone will accessorize differently.  When I used it for High Power it just had irons and a sling and was less than 8.5.  My point was you are only starting out about 1.5 lbs heavier with the base rifle.  It's not my first choice to carry on a long hike but works great for camping out and glassing a big cut.   

I recently e-filed a form 1 to build a 10.5" SBR in 300 Blackout which will wear nothing but an Eothech.  Expect it to come in well under 7lbs loaded.

I hate to break the news to you but all form1 for SBR's were denied back in May and any not denied are on perma hold right now.  Even form4's and Can submissions are locked up right now.

http://waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=56050

[fly-by]

[/quote]
I hate to break the news to you but all form1 for SBR's were denied back in May and any not denied are on perma hold right now.  Even form4's and Can submissions are locked up right now.

http://waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=56050
[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up.  I just checked eforms and it still appears to be in process.  Created and submitted 5/8.  I'm actually more upset about the form 4 issue.  I was days away (based on current lag between check cashing and approval) from taking posession of a Specwar 7.62.  Sorry to get off the AR topic.