collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Is a 3x restriction good?  (Read 24438 times)

Offline crabcreekhunter

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 849
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2015, 09:29:03 PM »
Mature two points, usually once they get this mature they aren't so slick horned and usually have a third somewhere both these guys did..
"Courage is simply fear that has said its prayers"

Offline Buck Rub Jr

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 715
  • Location: Wetside
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2015, 09:52:33 PM »
Mature two points, usually once they get this mature they aren't so slick horned and usually have a third somewhere both these guys did..
Those are some sweet bucks!!! I love big 2's. I've never ran across anything like those two personally. Most of the bigger ones I've seen are probably younger bucks with some good genetics. Are both those bucks from the hunt last year? I was always checking that thread to see what you guys had came up with.
They is where you aint and you aint where they is.

Offline GameHunter1959

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 530
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2015, 12:14:00 AM »
I would like to see the department reduce the doe permits in Marengo. I get they don't want herds of 20-30 deer like years past, but they destroyed the Marengo deer population in the 1990s and 2000s. Not near the deer, not near the nice bucks despite the 3 point restriction. The bucks in the late 1980s and all throughout the 1990s were far bigger and more abundant. The 3 point restriction combined with the massive amount of doe permits mismanaged the GMU. I watched 4 large 2 points get shot and left to lay in 1 canyon on opening day. Found 2 others laying dead on the second day of the season. I would like to see the GMU closed for 1-3 years and re-opened as a draw only area.

All my childhood hunting memories are in that GMU. I hoped to someday recreate those memories with my own kids. Probably won't happen unless the department makes some changes.

Offline crabcreekhunter

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 849
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2015, 10:24:06 AM »
Yes those two were have seen a couple just as large during general seasons.. They are just as smart as a mature four point and that's why it is fun..
"Courage is simply fear that has said its prayers"

Offline kball4

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 453
  • Location: Kitsap County
  • Groups: RMEF, NRA
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2015, 11:57:58 AM »
That's why you gotta look real close at the eye guards 1" and its a point.

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50512
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2015, 12:07:07 PM »
I'm a huge supporter of the 3x restriction.   I grew up in the methow when this wasn't an option, and when half of it was and now.   I saw huge improvements!  And I didn't see the world come to an end either filled with two points.   Probably because Cougars wolves and subarus eat them just as easy as they do four points.


I often disagree with bobcat but this is a great quote.

Do deer really care how many points they have? Do the does count points on the bucks when evaluating potential mates? Does it matter that there are mature two point bucks for any reason other than we can't shoot them and if we could they won't score well?

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50512
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2015, 12:11:07 PM »
Case in point.   This guy was eligible for harvest for probably a decade.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,108832.0.html

Offline lamrith

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Posts: 2161
  • Location: Tacoma, WA
    • https://www.facebook.com/pelletpeddler/
    • Pellet Peddler LLC
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2015, 12:30:38 PM »
Our mule deer numbers are historically low, killing off all the spikes and two points along with all the 3pt or better bucks would not help our deer one bit.  Aggressive predator control however would.  Kill a coyote, save a fawn!
Maybe a bounty system  Kill 5 predators, get another deer tag, or option to buy one?

Offline nwwanderer

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 4801
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2015, 05:48:19 PM »
It is a better fit for mule deer than whitetail.  With either species the genetic consequence is a problem.  True, does sure do not count points but the points on those antlers is not very hereditable, the mass and width is.  First antler bucks with three points or more are likely to have more mass and width than spikes and little narrow two points when mature.  Mass is will correlated with positive male traits, the ability to settle more does.  A high % of the harvest is young and the three point rule selects those bucks with the most reproductive potential if they lived to breed.  The result is a longer fawning interval and decreased fawn survival.  The mass information is will documented with whitetail, thank you Texas, the mule deer not so much.  From just watching the fawn crop with mule deer it is likely the same.  I have no stats to prove it. 
I have seen major changes in our local whitetail since the rule started.  Many years ago I rarely saw a spike whitetail, I wondered what they were talking about in those southeast whitetail stories about spikes.  We have them now, lots of them.  The fawning interval continues to increase, a new born was on my driveway last week.  The bucks that are breeding are not settling as many does the first cycle.  That is a survival problem for the fawn and a cycle on time problem for the doe.  The buck to doe ratio has improved.  More inferior genetic bucks does not equal more bred does.  That is not all bad, decreasing the population locally is a good thing.

Offline huntnnw

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 9671
  • Location: Spokane
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2015, 09:58:01 PM »
Babies or not.. point restrictions on mule deer creates a influx of 2 pt mule deer that will never get any bigger and breed passing it on...why units have 2pt seasons. Even primo units out west where people rarely shoot bucks smaller than 180" in some units are loaded with bad genes bucks and have implemented management tags or 2pt tags. Like whitetails there are lots of whitetails that will never be larger than 4x4 the equivalent of the forkie muley

Offline csaaphill

  • Anti Hunters are weird animals.
  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 9611
  • Hunting is non-negotiable it's what I do!
  • Groups: G.O.A., Rocky Mountain ELk Foundation
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2015, 11:03:17 PM »
Do deer really care how many points they have? Do the does count points on the bucks when evaluating potential mates? Does it matter that there are mature two point bucks for any reason other than we can't shoot them and if we could they won't score well?

I have read a few articles that discussed a topic similar to this and they basically said antler growth is a sign of health as well as gene quality. Besides the hunting aspect, I just don't like the idea of a prolonged antler restriction rule because it eventually will effect the overall make up of the herd. When done in the short term, the effects are minimal at best and should be phased out quickly but the longer you keep the restriction and keep letting the two points walk and breed, the longer term effects it has. I will see if I can find the really good article that I read a while back about this. Does a better job talking about the science and biology behind it.

Makes perfect sense but it seems that it would be a slaughter if it were "any buck"  :dunno:
why would it be it wasn't when it was that way back in the 70's and 80's so why would it be now?
"When my bow falls, so shall the world. When me heart ceases to pump blood to my body, it will all come crashing down. As a hunter, we are bound by duty, nay, bound by our very soul to this world. When a hunter dies we feel it, we sense it, and the world trembles with sorrow. When I die, so shall the world, from the shock of loosing such a great part of ones soul." Ezekiel, Okeanos Hunter

Offline Jonathan_S

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 9007
  • Location: Medical Lake
  • Volleyfire Brigade, Cryder apologist
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2015, 07:05:07 AM »
Do deer really care how many points they have? Do the does count points on the bucks when evaluating potential mates? Does it matter that there are mature two point bucks for any reason other than we can't shoot them and if we could they won't score well?

I have read a few articles that discussed a topic similar to this and they basically said antler growth is a sign of health as well as gene quality. Besides the hunting aspect, I just don't like the idea of a prolonged antler restriction rule because it eventually will effect the overall make up of the herd. When done in the short term, the effects are minimal at best and should be phased out quickly but the longer you keep the restriction and keep letting the two points walk and breed, the longer term effects it has. I will see if I can find the really good article that I read a while back about this. Does a better job talking about the science and biology behind it.

Makes perfect sense but it seems that it would be a slaughter if it were "any buck"  :dunno:
why would it be it wasn't when it was that way back in the 70's and 80's so why would it be now?

Well I would like to point out a few theories but I was not hunting then so I will leave it to those who you might believe.  Anyone?  What differences exist from E Washington mule deer herds now and the 1970s...what impact would implementing an any buck rule have then vs. now?

Thanks  :hello:
Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 39214
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2015, 07:41:31 AM »
The biggest difference is probably the decrease in available habitat and the decrease in quality of the habitat that remains. Summer range is worse due to a lack of fire and/or logging. Winter range is worse due to development, conversion to agricultural uses, and invasive weeds.

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50512
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2015, 07:43:08 AM »
Lol!

Apples versus oranges.  (70s versus now)

A lot more branched antler deer make it with the restriction.   you have a lot more potential for seeing a buck now. 
I've seen a lot of different versions, or studies of different models.  It just depends which side you vote for.  I choose deer.  Believe it or not, I like them. Lol

Habitat, wolves, people, equipment, disease, you can't compare now with then.  You have to manage for the future, not the past.

Offline Jonathan_S

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 9007
  • Location: Medical Lake
  • Volleyfire Brigade, Cryder apologist
Re: Is a 3x restriction good?
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2015, 07:48:24 AM »
Perzackly what I was thinking but I didn't hunt through the 70-80s
Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Idaho on the verge of outlawing by Mtnwalker
[Today at 03:11:18 PM]


Nile bull hunters by Ridgerunner
[Today at 02:42:13 PM]


Hunting with a suppressor - dumb idea? by Wolfdog2314
[Today at 02:41:03 PM]


Smoked salmon by mikey549
[Today at 02:17:02 PM]


Unit 346 little naches by jrebel
[Today at 01:46:49 PM]


WHAT DID YOUR TRUCK COST NEW? by millerwheeler
[Today at 01:31:45 PM]


Sheep Ewe - Whitestone Sheep Unit 20 by Pathfinder101
[Today at 12:14:46 PM]


.45 kentucky rifle and patched roundballs by lazydrifter
[Today at 10:15:42 AM]


Blue Tongue and EHD outbreak in NE Washington by hunter399
[Today at 08:39:56 AM]


What happened to the Cowlitz by HntnFsh
[Today at 08:39:22 AM]


Early Huckleberry Bull Moose tag drawn! by Wanttohuntmore
[Today at 06:53:00 AM]


Curious Kitty by NOCK NOCK
[Today at 06:02:49 AM]


Reproduction for a Euro Mount in Wa??? by blindluck
[Today at 04:13:44 AM]


Roadless Rule Public Comment by addicted1
[Yesterday at 09:22:08 PM]


Goose hunting in Spokane by Pomdale
[Yesterday at 08:34:54 PM]


GROUSE 2025...the Season is looming! by Boss .300 winmag
[Yesterday at 06:58:25 PM]


Talking About Barely Legal by Boss .300 winmag
[Yesterday at 06:48:19 PM]


GM 6.6l gas 6 speed vs. 10 speed? by HntnFsh
[Yesterday at 05:55:51 PM]


2021 bear had been previously shot before I killed him by cjjcb
[Yesterday at 05:55:10 PM]


Selkirk GMU 113 Moose by vandeman17
[Yesterday at 04:42:53 PM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal