Swakane

[spin05]

Although I do think there ARE too many does being killed in certain units, and many of them are taken during archery seasons, since many of the archery seasons are for either sex.

Ha...... yea 12 out of 20 units for late muleys open for doe's.Non of wich other then the swakane are the premier unit we were talking about.Everybody i know goes buck only in the early season.So take away the doe's in the early season, unless your a youth ,and leave the rest alone.Maybe that will solve your problem................

[bobcat]

Well, what we think doesn't really matter. We all can have our opinions but in the end it will be the wildlife biologists who do the counts, and the studies, and go over all the harvest data, who will be making the decisions on how to set the seasons. Or if it's not the biologists making the decisions, it should be. I didn't hunt anywhere in Okanogan or Chelan counties last year and won't even think about it this year either, due to the two bad winters we have had in a row now. I'm planning to do my hunting in other places where the winter kill isn't as bad. Really, I do think they should be giving more Swakane archery late season permits, and after all the complaints they are gettting, maybe they will. I see from the 2007 Harvest Report there was 728 archery hunters in the Swakane GMU, why don't they give out about 250 permits? That would be about 1/3 the hunters and would provide a quality hunt. But like I said, it's not up to me or you to make that decision, it's not our job.

[bowhuntin]

The way I see it these changes should not have even been proposed. Lets take a look at resource allocation. The harvest should be proportionate to the size of that user group right? Here are the numbers for deer...

Deer: 2003-007

 

Total Hunters: 492,163

 

User group size:

 

Archery: 62,730 - 12.75%

M/F: 395,457 - 80.35%

M/L: 33,976 - 6.9%

 

 

Total Deer harvest: 173,406 - % of harvest

 

Archery: 19,727 - 11.38%

M/F: 142,195 - 82.0%

M/L: 11,484 - 6.62%     

Looks like everything was working to me. No reason to eliminate or change any of the seasons. The only reason these changes are being proposed is because of Chip McBroom who lobbied for better seasons using data that didn't show the whole story. We should keep status quo IMO. 

[bobcat]

This is the reasoning behind it according to the WDFW:

As a result of the public support (sometimes strong support), the following are recommended hunting season proposals for 2009-2011 general deer seasons and special permits for the fall of 2009:

• Increase the number of GMUs open for general season muzzleloader opportunity. Increase the general muzzleloader season from 7 to 9 days, and shift the timing to decrease some of the overlap with muzzleloader elk season.

• Shift the antlerless permits in GMUs 101-142 to “2nd deer” permits.

• Increase the number of GMUs open to late season special permit opportunities in Region 2 for archers and muzzleloaders. Reduce the number of GMUs open to late general season archery in Region 2 to reduce overall high pressure and hunter crowding while deer are on winter range.

• Shifting early muzzleloader and late archery opportunity to a late muzzleloader season
structure in GMU 381.

• Move GMU 574 to “any buck”, move GMU 578 to “3 pt. min.”, reduce the late season
pressure in GMU 388 from general season to special permit.

[Ironhead]

It's not all about me, Its about 62,000 bow hunters getting the shaft. I use other weapons in other states  where I don't have to worry about being shot. There is a damn good reason I choose archery only in this over crowded state, and don't give me the get off the roads and you get away from the people horse crap. You can climb to the top of the world or the bottom of the deepest hole and you will run into others. I have no problem with limiting the late archery hunts to permit only, but make it reasonable with 100 or so tags don't just pull the rug out from under us.
The rifle and muzzleloader hunts will get more crowded if the proposal stands, because the guys that used to drive the roads and hunt the easy pickens in the late season and the on the border guys aren't going to see the oppurtunities they had during the late season and will start looking for easier oppurtunities ie, rifles and muzzleloaders.

[hunt4]

but in the end it will be the wildlife biologists who do the counts, and the studies, and go over all the harvest data, who will be making the decisions on how to set the seasons.

  .....keep on living in that delusional world local biologist here signed the archery petition, in so many words said they (WDFG) do not listen to what biologist really have to say on how  things should be managed, its all about the old mighty dollar and the general fund..he really disagreed with allot of things being shoved down are throats...example..
offering 10 goat tags in xx unit were he felt the herd was now in great shape and this could send them backwards in there progress they have achieved.
 
And your comment about the killing of does...hmmm rifle hunters killed almost as many  does  than archery hunters killed deer

[bobcat]

We all can have our opinions but in the end it will be the wildlife biologists who do the counts, and the studies, and go over all the harvest data, who will be making the decisions on how to set the seasons. Or if it's not the biologists making the decisions, it should be.

[bobcat]

The rifle and muzzleloader hunts will get more crowded if the proposal stands, because the guys that used to drive the roads and hunt the easy pickens in the late season and the on the border guys aren't going to see the oppurtunities they had during the late season and will start looking for easier oppurtunities ie, rifles and muzzleloaders.

This is why they just need to eliminate ALL general mule deer seasons and go to permit only. Limit the number of hunters in each GMU and then we wouldn't have all this bickering over who gets the better opportunities. You apply for the permit you want, if you don't get it, wait till next year and try again. If you don't get to hunt deer that year, go hunt bears and cougars and coyotes. Or ducks, geese, pheasant, grouse, chukar, or quail. There's no lack of hunting opportunity in this state. No need to hunt mule deer every single year, in my opinion. 

[bowhuntin]

The rifle and muzzleloader hunts will get more crowded if the proposal stands, because the guys that used to drive the roads and hunt the easy pickens in the late season and the on the border guys aren't going to see the oppurtunities they had during the late season and will start looking for easier oppurtunities ie, rifles and muzzleloaders.

This is why they just need to eliminate ALL general mule deer seasons and go to permit only. Limit the number of hunters in each GMU and then we wouldn't have all this bickering over who gets the better opportunities. You apply for the permit you want, if you don't get it, wait till next year and try again. If you don't get to hunt deer that year, go hunt bears and cougars and coyotes. Or ducks, geese, pheasant, grouse, chukar, or quail. There's no lack of hunting opportunity in this state. No need to hunt mule deer every single year, in my opinion. 

That sure wouldn't bother me being an archery guy, it would just mean better odds of drawing a special permit for one of these areas.

[ICEMAN]

Bobcat, I believe that the problem with this line of thought is:

You are a more dedicated hunter than most. Hunters like you have many options for hunting already. They already hunt multiple species and probably have multiple choices of weapons....they also understand what makes a great hunt. They already appreciate less pressure, and more mature animals to harvest.

I believe that most hunters would not want to give up their yearly hunting rituals and traditions. " I hunt in the same spot my grandpa and my daddy did, with the same rifle my grandpa and my daddy had...."  Not that there is anything wrong with this approach, but may not be as open to sitting a season out and trying something completely new to them.

For me, my mule deer hunt is sacred. On the other hand, I hate it. Some years we see fewer guys in the area we hunt, others we get visitors. I have roamed around a bit during the hunt and visited other nearby GMU's just to check on hunter density, but I am not ready to bail on the area I have hunted for 25 years. I am not excited about bailing entirely on my beloved yearly hunt, to wait for my chance at hunting it, or another area...

I hate the thought, but to reduce the amount of hunting pressure an any area, I see higher license fees as my choice. I am willing to pay it, not sure everyone else is ....

[nw_bowhunter]

Losing hunting opportunity scares me.... only being able to hunt permit only is not the solution IMO.  I'm curious what you consider as the benefit of permit only? better deer heard, larger bucks, etc?

[huntnphool]

This is why they just need to eliminate ALL general mule deer seasons and go to permit only.

This would definitely be the cure all as far as targetting a specific buck/doe ratio, unfortunately it will never happen, as Iceman stated the majority would be up in arms and F&W crumble at the first sign of pressure from from majorities.

 As far as the Swakane as a single unit goes the general season in that area is not the problem. Do hunters tag mature trophy bucks in there in the middle of October, absolutely, just take a look at the toad Lemondog got in there in Oct. a few years ago, however for the most part the migrators don't hit that area until November and this is where F&W could dramatically help the herd and that's by severely cutting back on the permits and archery season

[lemondog]

Right on phool!

[cle elum bowhunter]

I grew up in the Swakane Unit, started hunting at 12 and switched to bow in the early '90's as I was tired of seeing more orange on the hills than brown.  Bow hunting is my passion and I annually look forward to setting up the camper after Thanksgiving and chasing after the big boys with my hunting partner.  In the approximately 15 years that I have bow hunted the Swakane, I have harvested 4 bucks.  Not quite one every 3 years.  Now by most standards this would be good, but there has been many a year that I go home to tag soup in December because I chose not to shoot a small buck or doe.  Every year, except this past season, I have put the stock on some true trophies, but have not been able to get close enough to take a clean, ethical shot.  For a hunter willing to get away from the roads, there has never been a problem seeing nice bucks.  I don't know what the biologist says about herd numbers but if escapement is part of the concern, then I see other options available that would not eliminate my opportunites to introduce my son to bow hunting for muleys in the snow.  He has accompanied my into the field during late archery since he was 5.  This year was his first carrying a rifle at the age of 11.  After 6 days of hunting, I had a very tired young man, who had followed me miles back behind gates and away from roads, to only see does and hunter orange.  For his Birthday this year he has been asking for a bow, but right now I will wait to see what happens. 
Rather than eliminate or cut archers off at the knees, why not try road management.  Much of the swakane is criss-crossed with old logging roads.  By closing off most of these, larger areas of escapement would be created, giving those willing to work for it their chances.  If WDFW thinks the only way to protect the bucks is making a draw hunt, then why not at least put out 200 permits for archery.  At current success rates that would equate to about 35-40 archery bucks harvested during the late season.  Modern Firearm is given 38 for the swakane and 52 for the entiat.  Historically, those modern rut tags enjoy 90 to almost 100% success.  And now they will get another 6 days added to their special tags while the 15 and 17 archery tags will loose 4 days.  If this doesn't look like an agenda against bowhunters, I don't know what to say.  One other thing, if WDFW really is concerned about our mule deer in these units, why are they still going to have permit doe tags for muzzies in all units, modern doe tags in the mission, and general season archery open to does.  STOP SHOOTING DOES!  Typically, harvest of females(does and cows) is used to reduce population when there are issues of the population exceeding the holding capacity of the habitat.  WDFW needs to pull their head out and not punish one user group and reward another in efforts to generate revenue, instead, why don't they manage the resource for all of us to have equitable harvest percentages.  I guarentee that with this purposed changes, archery hunters will see severe declines in harvest success (I'll guess under 15%).  See you in Ellensberg on the 6th.

[rougheye]

Well put , I also grew up hunting the swakane and i fear my son will never get to .I will be at the meetings at E-burg .