Wolves, a good thing?

[huntnphool]

But in the way back past, when the game declined the wolves declined because no alternate food source.  So back in the settlement days, game declined and wolves came and ate the livestock.  Then humans were to be faced with the food shortage.  So they killed the wolves.  Now we've got a whole lot more people.

I also hope you guys over there will be able to hunt them someday but I know it's an uphill battle in Washington

 I don't!

[mfswallace]

Started reading last night, made it through about the bottom third of page 38 of posts. Most post were SSS, When wolf tags go for sale in MT I'm there! and things like that. There were a couple of members asking the same questions as myself. I'll keep reading!

Gringo-
I'm going to take MT as a example:
I took this from HistoryNet: Between 1883 and 1927 Montana paid bounties on a staggering 111,545 wolves and 886,367 coyotes. Subsidizing both ranchers and wolfers, the state paid bounties on 23,575 wolves in 1899 alone. Under such pressure wolf populations declined so dramatically that in 1920 Montana paid bounties on only 17 gray wolves.

Compared to that the wolf numbers are low, under 550 minimum in 2015 (MFW&P). MT does keep track of Coyote numbers so I can't compare those. 2004 MT Grizzlies numbers in the Great Divide ecosystem were over 700 (MFW&P).

there were 20,000 people in montana in 1880 and 548,889 by 1927.... quit being naive

[jmscon]

Not sure what you point is on the population boom.
I'm still reading but dang that wolfbait is long winded!

[jmscon]

Quote from bearpaw June 15, 2009 re: wolves are killing all our deer
Dang I love hunting these critters. As I am sure you are aware with your close DOW connections, the lion populations have been greatly reduced in most areas of the west, including Idaho and E. Washington and for verying reasons. For some time Idaho F&G has offered extra lion and bear tags in central Idaho to reduce those populations. There is more lion and bear hunting occuring than ever before in Idaho and harvest data has indicated reduced populations in most areas.

I can't verify where he got his info. So that leaves yotes? I hear them all the time and see them all the time but I don't have any numbers on them. So I might have been mistaken on that statement. Not sure but I don't think the smaller cats affect deer, elk or moose very much.

And yes I live in a big city with a bunch of people who are not familiar with what is happening in the rest of the state. But I have a lot of roots in eastern WA. My grandpa was born in SE Idaho. He started hunting for da it's as a kid by throwing rocks at them (very poor)! He went on to be a very avid hunter of deer, elk, moose, wild boar, and (I was very lucky to inherit) a nice billy. My grandma was born and raised in ferry county and we still have a piece of property in the family. By the time I was at an age to even think about hunting my grandpa was pushing 80 and very sick. My dad and his side of the family were fisherman and, although my dad liked getting out into the woods, was not an avid hunter.

I finally, at the age of 25, went through hunter ed and started hunting. By myself.
I started this thread partly for some entertainment because I knew it would raise some eyebrows and ruffle some feathers but also to learn. Wolves are not a big topic of conversation where I live.

Yes, I made a statement. I don't live in the woods and I don't get out in the woods as much as I want to so I don't see the trends. The last time I was in ferry county was a couple of weeks ago and saw white tail, moose and got pics of yotes. I am nervous about bringing my kids over, when they get a little older, because of the growing wolf populations in the area! But I do feel that a well managed native wolf population might be beneficial. The well managed part I don't see happening.

The smart *** comments I can take all day.

And mfswallace, your signature is from one of the funniest movies I've ever seen!

[bearpaw]

Keep researching and reading. You'll learn that Idaho is still over objective for bear and cougar in many units while some are about where they want. The areas that are over objective have two bear and two cougar tags available over the counter. One thing to remember is that populations are very fluid, by that I mean they can increase quickly when hunting pressure is reduced, that's why Idaho has had to increase the number of two tag areas, to try and keep numbers where they want them.

Another thing to know is that since wolves are on the landscape we can't have as many cougar and bear or you have too much overall predator impact. One cougar or one wolf has about the same impact, so if we get 1000 wolves in WA which is where we are headed then there needs to be 1000 fewer cougar or we will see reductions in the ungulate herds due to all the large carnivores simply trying to survive.

Idaho has done an excellent job at reducing large predator numbers in several areas where elk and deer were declining and now herds are growing again. There are still some units with too many predators preventing much herd growth but Idaho is gaining each year since they have been allowed to hunt wolves.

The biggest impact I see in NE WA is a decline in localized moose populations. There are several moose units that moose numbers are dropping and are getting tough to hunt. Just like in the other states, the moose herds were hurt first by wolves.

As far as your kids personal safety, there are numerous wolf packs in Ferry County, more than WDFW has confirmed. Additionally there are many more cougar which are potentially more dangerous since there are more of them. It is my advice while in Ferry County that you keep your kids in the yard and do not let them wander widely if they are small. It's dangerous for small children since predators are more frightened by larger humans and more often see small children as an easy meal. There have been numerous cougar attacks on children in NE WA through recent years, the odds are low overall, but if one of your kids pull the unlucky number it may not be good. I also know numerous adult people who have been followed and even one adult who was attacked by wolves in NE WA, that was documented by WDFW. More and more people are packing a gun when they go walking, it's just smart!

[csaaphill]

Problem is the anti's are using the wolf to shut us down. If that wasn't enough, any talk on allowing hunting them they get their panties in a wad and sue when it comes time to set a season. They just tried to delist the wolves and the antis sued to stop it. I've seen what seems like a drop in the herds in just the Blue Mountains because of the wolves there. If they allowed us to hunt them, instead of finning us for shooting them if we see them then I might agree, but they don't. their numbers grow our deer and elk numbers suffer,  but yet the antis laugh because they know they will get us shut down.

[Gringo31]

But I do feel that a well managed native wolf population might be beneficial

What is the risk?


At what cost?


What if you are wrong?

 
How do you put the toothpaste back in the tube?  What happens if it's not well managed?


Sit back and watch because we are seeing exactly that.

[jmscon]

Yes, there are a lot of what ifs!!!
I've gotten tooth paste back in the tube but it takes a lot of time and patients.

[Gringo31]

Yes, there are a lot of what ifs!!!
I've gotten tooth paste back in the tube but it takes a lot of time and patients.

These are the things to be considered AHEAD OF TIME.


To think they are beneficial.....key word "think", and as a fall back, rely on your experience putting toothpaste back in a tube, sounds like WDFW would love to hire you  couldn't help myself

[idahohuntr]

Wolves and wolf management are largely symbolic of broader social and political issues in the rural west- which is why there is so much misinformation on both sides. 

The loudest voices in the room on wolf topics screech over each other - one clamoring that wolves are an evil force that will kill you, your children, all the ungulates in the state and by god if we don't open season tomorrow there will be no hunting in 2 years.  This screeching is supported by nut jobs and tinfoil hat theories that require you to stop all logical thought process and reasoning.  The other side screeches that man has no place on earth, the wolves are cuddly and would never intentionally harm another critter, and really we can just all get along but if we can't then humans should suffer because it would be a tragedy to every intentionally harm a wolf.

As usual in controversial topics the extremists on both sides are very wrong, and the truth rests somewhere in the middle.  Wolves can, and need to be managed, ungulate populations are not static and change for many intertwined and complex reasons, including predation effects.  Wolves will never be the end of hunting...in fact a far cry from the real dangers to hunting as we know it in the west - loss of public land access/ownership and habitat. 

[Kittman]

Unfortunately those of us that have a little more experience regarding the biological diversity of what this state can accommodate and truly sustain still repeatedly has to foot the bill of the assertiveness of the ideologically impaired.

[huntnphool]

Wolves will never be the end of hunting...

 That is a left wing political twist Idaho!

 Does our $850,000, Houston resident, wolf consultant Francine Madden teach you these things in those closed door meetings?

[JimmyHoffa]

Might not be the end to ungulates, but they could very well end hunting.

[idahohuntr]

Wolves will never be the end of hunting...

 That is a left wing political twist Idaho!

 Does our $850,000, Houston resident, wolf consultant Francine Madden teach you these things in those closed door meetings?

No, I learnt that all on my own.

[bearpaw]

It probably doesn't matter to WDFW since they get funding from sources other than license sales. But Idaho learned that wolves reduce herds and hunters quit going hunting in states that have fewer elk and deer.