Guns in Wa. stadiums

[jackelope]

I don't know what the big deal is on here. Laws do not pertain to criminals, never have, never will.

In a crowd active shooter situation, unarmed people tend to lie flat, get behind cover, or run away from the shooter. In the video's I've watched, clear lanes of fire open rather quickly.

Does a 10 year old know to do that?
Hopefully people are able to move faster than bullets can fly?? Especially the ones who can't see that someone is about to pull a trigger.
I don't like it.

No, but the parent who's with the 10 year old does. Whether it's a cop or an armed citizen, an active shooter needs to be stopped before he kills possibly scores more people. Either the cop or the armed citizen may miss and shoot, even possibly kill a bystander. But killing the shooter ASAP will ultimately save way more lives than standing around waiting for everyone to be safe and out of the way. We're not talking about an armed robbery or a car jacking where killing the perpetrator is a judgement call and may be an unnecessary risk to bystanders. We're talking about lots of people being killed if the guy isn't stopped. If someone's sitting right next to him with a firearm, it stops really fast.

Not sure if you have kids or had kids, but keeping a 10 year old within immediate range to grab/push/shove/whatever towards a safe location is virtually impossible. I guess I don't trust 90% of the people who might be carrying to be educated and trained as to what the right thing to do is in that scenario. That's not the same as an intruder in your house or a carjacking or some other less populated situation. Everybody has all the training they need when they're talking about it via their keyboard. When the crap hits the fan, not many people actually know what to do. That is a real life fact.

So you'd feel more comfortable knowing there's no one in the area that could legally have a gun to try and stop someone who want to kill as many people as they can! So you'd cower down and hope they would let you live....not me,if I wasn't carrying,which won't happen.,I'd be wishing someone else was. I guess that's why the world has sheeple

I think you're missing my point. The concern I have is you've got the bad guy and you've got some amateur hour gun owner start shooting and bullets are flying everywhere. Random casualties in that situation are pretty much guaranteed to happen in those crowds. As of now, if you go to Safeco field, you get wanded or through the metal detector. You have a gun. You can't go in with the gun. Now we have a new law that says you can. Some nutcase with a CWP now walks into Safeco field with his now legal gun and decides to shoot up the place. They let him in with it because it was legal.  Obviously someone could sneak a gun in probably, but now it's pretty much legal to walk in with one as long as you have a CWP.
I can't tell you the last time I went to a mall. I might go to 1 game at a big stadium per year....maybe... I don't like crowds. With all the crap going on in the world, I'd much rather stay out of the city and the malls, etc.  I like to stay in my small town. Friday night lights and all. You know. I am a gun owner, handgun owner, I carry at times, I'm not anti-carry or anything like that.

How many rounds are shot at a bad guy until the threat is done by LEO's ? 10, 20,  64 and how many rounds fly around not hitting the target ?

I guess I feel like if it's legal to have guns in the stadiums, there's more potential for bad stuff to happen, thus increasing the odds of more random bullets flying around. I don't believe that you or I or most people posting in this thread would be able to handle an active shooter situation any better than a cop. Sorry. I just don't.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if it suddenly becomes legal to bring them in, there's more potential for some nutcase jackwagon to bring one in.

 

[Special T]

If it's tax funded we should be able to carry. Maybe that would be a good motivation for them to keep the tax payer out of it.

Strangly enough if we look to Oregon they have a better carry law in this regard. Cc holders can carry on school grounds and HS football games and such. Haven't been any problems of note from CC holders there.

[huntnphool]

 No way does this pass in this state.

[Bob33]

I’m more concerned about my safety while outside the stadium, walking to and from my parking location in some of the most dangerous parts of the city. Since it’s not legal to take any sort of the personal protection device (firearm, knife, pepper spray) into the stadium, these policies require fans to be unprotected in a vulnerable part of town, especially if you park quite a distance from the stadium.

[EmeraldBullet]

I agree with Macs B and Bob33.

I guess for me it comes down to is: Is the added security of being armed while walking back to my car, worth the risk of some idiot doing something stupid in the stadium and further damaging gun rights in the long run.

[huntingbaldguy]

I agree with Macs B and Bob33.

I guess for me it comes down to is: Is the added security of being armed while walking back to my car, worth the risk of some idiot doing something stupid in the stadium and further damaging gun rights in the long run.

Tell me sir... what good are gun rights to you if you're walking back to your car and get killed because you didn't have a gun?  Tell me why gun rights matter to you after that... please.

[huntingbaldguy]

Never been involved in a shooting have you? Most people will never "clear leather" unless they are pretty certain they can take the target out.
If you are lobbing shots at an active shooter you will become his target. Trust me, the guy shooting at an "active shooter" is so because he's pretty sure of his skills.
All your "Rambo" bullpucky goes out the window when someone is trying to kill you.

And you're welcome if you're ever in an active shooter situation and i start "lobbing shots" and take the target off everyone else there, even if for the briefest of moments, so that people who may otherwise have not gotten to hard cover, can do so.

You ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, the one who pulls his pistol out and starts taking shots at the active shoot, is being the least selfish person there?  Like, oh... an officer, who puts himself in that situation willingly?

[EmeraldBullet]

I agree with Macs B and Bob33.

I guess for me it comes down to is: Is the added security of being armed while walking back to my car, worth the risk of some idiot doing something stupid in the stadium and further damaging gun rights in the long run.

Tell me sir... what good are gun rights to you if you're walking back to your car and get killed because you didn't have a gun?  Tell me why gun rights matter to you after that... please.

I didn't say which side I think outweighs the other. I'm still undecided, need to give it more thought. You make a very valid point however.

[jackelope]

@Cougartail
I've never been involved in a shooting. I imagine most of the people on this forum never have. Have you?
Are you asking me or Campmeat? I don't think I was spewing any Rambo jargon.
 

[huntingbaldguy]

Never been involved in a shooting have you? Most people will never "clear leather" unless they are pretty certain they can take the target out.
If you are lobbing shots at an active shooter you will become his target. Trust me, the guy shooting at an "active shooter" is so because he's pretty sure of his skills.
All your "Rambo" bullpucky goes out the window when someone is trying to kill you.

And you're welcome if you're ever in an active shooter situation and i start "lobbing shots" and take the target off everyone else there, even if for the briefest of moments, so that people who may otherwise have not gotten to hard cover, can do so.

What happens when the LEOs who are already there in the stadium are distracted by you lobbing your bullets defending everyone and instead of engaging the shooter, have to sort out who is the bad guy and who isn't? 

One of the things I think some people are unclear on, your concealed firearm is to defend yourself,  the moment you start doing anything else you become my target, and LEOs target and anyone else who is defending themselves and their family.  The last thing a crowded stadium shooter scenario needs is more shooters adding to the confusion.

Where is this defined?  I'd like to see what RCW or federal law you're talking about that specifically says it's not to defend anyone but yourself. 

Also how did i suddenly become your target if you're against carrying a gun in a stadium so you left it home?

Also... how are you defending your family if that firearm is only for defending yourself?  Lets be consistent here.

Historically speaking, the good guy who tries to help, doesn't just "lob shots" into a crowd.  You give very little credit to the average concealed carrier... and very little evidence might i add, to support your statements.  There's quite a bit of evidence to support positions contrary to yours however, and quite a few scenarios where police were helped out by good citizens with guns.

So i guess what i'm trying to say is, you're arguing your personal opinion and your distrust of people.

[ghosthunter]

I don't know what the big deal is on here. Laws do not pertain to criminals, never have, never will.

In a crowd active shooter situation, unarmed people tend to lie flat, get behind cover, or run away from the shooter. In the video's I've watched, clear lanes of fire open rather quickly.

Does a 10 year old know to do that?
Hopefully people are able to move faster than bullets can fly?? Especially the ones who can't see that someone is about to pull a trigger.
I don't like it.

No, but the parent who's with the 10 year old does. Whether it's a cop or an armed citizen, an active shooter needs to be stopped before he kills possibly scores more people. Either the cop or the armed citizen may miss and shoot, even possibly kill a bystander. But killing the shooter ASAP will ultimately save way more lives than standing around waiting for everyone to be safe and out of the way. We're not talking about an armed robbery or a car jacking where killing the perpetrator is a judgement call and may be an unnecessary risk to bystanders. We're talking about lots of people being killed if the guy isn't stopped. If someone's sitting right next to him with a firearm, it stops really fast.

Not sure if you have kids or had kids, but keeping a 10 year old within immediate range to grab/push/shove/whatever towards a safe location is virtually impossible. I guess I don't trust 90% of the people who might be carrying to be educated and trained as to what the right thing to do is in that scenario. That's not the same as an intruder in your house or a carjacking or some other less populated situation. Everybody has all the training they need when they're talking about it via their keyboard. When the crap hits the fan, not many people actually know what to do. That is a real life fact.

So you'd feel more comfortable knowing there's no one in the area that could legally have a gun to try and stop someone who want to kill as many people as they can! So you'd cower down and hope they would let you live....not me,if I wasn't carrying,which won't happen.,I'd be wishing someone else was. I guess that's why the world has sheeple

I think you're missing my point. The concern I have is you've got the bad guy and you've got some amateur hour gun owner start shooting and bullets are flying everywhere. Random casualties in that situation are pretty much guaranteed to happen in those crowds. As of now, if you go to Safeco field, you get wanded or through the metal detector. You have a gun. You can't go in with the gun. Now we have a new law that says you can. Some nutcase with a CWP now walks into Safeco field with his now legal gun and decides to shoot up the place. They let him in with it because it was legal.  Obviously someone could sneak a gun in probably, but now it's pretty much legal to walk in with one as long as you have a CWP.
I can't tell you the last time I went to a mall. I might go to 1 game at a big stadium per year....maybe... I don't like crowds. With all the crap going on in the world, I'd much rather stay out of the city and the malls, etc.  I like to stay in my small town. Friday night lights and all. You know. I am a gun owner, handgun owner, I carry at times, I'm not anti-carry or anything like that.

How many rounds are shot at a bad guy until the threat is done by LEO's ? 10, 20,  64 and how many rounds fly around not hitting the target ?

I guess I feel like if it's legal to have guns in the stadiums, there's more potential for bad stuff to happen, thus increasing the odds of more random bullets flying around. I don't believe that you or I or most people posting in this thread would be able to handle an active shooter situation any better than a cop. Sorry. I just don't.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if it suddenly becomes legal to bring them in, there's more potential for some nutcase jackwagon to bring one in.

 

You just made the case for no one to have a gun any where any time. Because something might happen.
I read something one time that said " 90 % of things people worry about never come to pass"

 

[Bean Counter]

While we're at it, why not ban guns in movie theaters? Farmers markets? Convention centers?

[Band]

Apparently the level of security has been sufficient to keep shootings out of stadiums.  Unless someone can show evidence to the contrary, the need to protect yourself from others with guns at stadiums doesn't appear to be a problem.

For those who believe their rights are infringed by not being able to carry in the stadium, I'm guessing you're the same people who get rankled about any type of infringements; controls on automatic weapons and high capacity guns, for instance.  You showed that by the over-the-top display of guns in Starbucks a few years back.  Shall we assume you want to make sure your rights are protected from these high capacity and automatic gun infringements in stadiums as well?

If you're concerned about the inability to carry on the way from your vehicle to the stadium and back maybe you should start a business next to the stadium where you check guns in/out for a fee.  How about parking closer to the stadium?  How about staying home if you can't pack inside the stadium?

[EmeraldBullet]

You showed that by the over-the-top display of guns in Starbucks a few years back. 

Funny you bring up starbucks. I like to open carry when I grab my morning dark roast. Not sure if it's a starbucks policy, or if it's just the people in my local one are so pro gun they give me preferential treatment, but they always make my coffee first, even if there were other people who already made their orders. No complaints here, I like being able to get in and out.

[Band]

I wasn't talking about a pistol on the hip when I used the words "over-the-top".  I think you've seen some of the firearms in pics that I'm talking about and they have nothing to do with carrying for personal protection.