300 WSM?

[The scout]

If you would be interested I have a box of 100 210gr nosler LRAB, 40$ I will ship them to you, on game they perform exactly like the eld x.

They're hard to tell apart they're so close!

Yes they are.  Bothof those bullets I have recovered from game have looked just like those, I wasn't crazy about the LRAB because I had to slow them way down to get them to group well, and the eld x was th easiest load to develop I have done and most accurate

[PNW4Life]

How much will that nitride help with copper fouling from the hammer bullets?

The Nitriding probably won't have much of an impact on fouling. It does usually reduce bore friction enough to gain a couple extra FPS, kind of like running bullets coated with moly, WS-2 or HBN. I haven't seen any more fouling from the Hammers than from a standard jacketed bullet. They're significantly better than most of the Barnes TSX bullets I've shot, but I've never seen severe fouling from the Barnes either.

I've probably shot more of the Hammer bullets than most. Here's what I've tested so far:

6mm
-88gr Hammer Hunter

308
- 152gr Sledge Hammer
- 181gr Hammer Hunter

338
- 186gr Sledge Hammer
- 225gr Sledge Hammer
- 255gr Sledge Hammer
- 260gr Hammer Hunter
- 282gr Sledge Hammer
- 304gr Hammer Hunter
- 307gr Hammer Hunter

With that idea in mind, not cranking the bullets too fast, I think I'll probably be favoring the 166/181gr Hammers and the faster clip the lighter bullet offers. I will probably have this 300 throated for the Hammers. Having talked with Steve on several occasions, I know there's no limit to impact velocity but just a recommended minimum of 1800fps. Hammer's a whole lot more responsive to customer requests and does some pretty serious R&D on bullets before offering them to the public, unless you're guinea pigging something of your own request/creation.
Over the years, I've learned a formula that's worked well for me:
high speed + large diameter = dead critters with soup for insides

You'd probably be happier with the 181gr over the 166gr Hammer. It's worth noting that it's a pretty long bullet. Here's a comparison of a couple heavy 308's that I have on hand to compare.

The Hammers have a high BC compared to other solid coppers but they're lower than a lot of the newer LR bullets. You may be disappointed by the BC of the 166gr at longer ranges but I'm a big fan of the Hammers as an all round hunting bullet. That's not to say that they aren't good at LR; I've shot the 304gr 338 Hammer to a little over 1500 yards from the 338 SnipeTac pistol with excellent accuracy, the BC just comes in a little lower than something like a Berger.

You wouldn't happen to be friends with Ean Vargas, would you? He told me he had a buddy that was working with Steve, getting bullets tested and favored a beautiful Russo stocked 338 SnipeTac pistol... the video of him shooting it was impressive!

[yorketransport]

You wouldn't happen to be friends with Ean Vargas, would you? He told me he had a buddy that was working with Steve, getting bullets tested and favored a beautiful Russo stocked 338 SnipeTac pistol... the video of him shooting it was impressive!

It's a shame Ean missed the 100 yard target in that video. I taught Ean everything he knows and a lot of stuff he doesn't remember.

[PNW4Life]

You wouldn't happen to be friends with Ean Vargas, would you? He told me he had a buddy that was working with Steve, getting bullets tested and favored a beautiful Russo stocked 338 SnipeTac pistol... the video of him shooting it was impressive!

It's a shame Ean missed the 100 yard target in that video. I taught Ean everything he knows and a lot of stuff he doesn't remember.

I'll have to hassle him about missing the next time I talk to him haha
Have you done very extensive testing with the 181gr into leather for penetration?

[yorketransport]

It's a shame Ean missed the 100 yard target in that video. I taught Ean everything he knows and a lot of stuff he doesn't remember.

I'll have to hassle him about missing the next time I talk to him haha
Have you done very extensive testing with the 181gr into leather for penetration?
[/quote]

I haven't yet but they're on the to do list. So far the Hammer Hunters have penetrated farther than almost all the other bullets I've tested. To be fair though, that's because the petals break off and the remaining portion of the shank continues on without the same resistance as an expanded bullet. So far nothing has out penetrated the 300gr Scenar though. It's a shame that one tumbled and didn't expand.

[PNW4Life]

Do you have any on-game performance experiences with the Hammers?
I'm a little bit concerned that tissue damage might be less than optimal if it's dropping petals from impact. Do you have an opinion on this?

[yorketransport]

I don't, there are a lot of others who do have first hand experience though. I'm a big fan of the 2 holes theory of bullet performance; one to let the air in and one to let the blood out. In the testing I've done, the pieces of the petals that shear off about 4" into penetration and are large enough that they'd do some significant damage as they radiate away from the bullet shank. This would give you some serious shock while the shank carries on to ensure good penetration and an exit hole.

The owners of Hammer bullets are very responsive to questions if you wanted to reach out to them. They also have their own forum where they're really quick to respond. Plus there's a lot of good info from other guys who've shot game with the Hammers.
http://hammerbullets.boards.net/forum

[Jonathan_S]

I haven't killed hundreds of animals like some and I haven't ever spent much time recovering bullets unless they were obvious.

That said, I think expansion is over rated in many cases. So many other factors in terminal performance, let alone shot placement kill animals. This test that yorke is sharing is really valuable and o appreciate it as much as anybody. My only point is that people shouldn't think that only the most expanded bullets kill game.

I've had deer with pencil holes in both sides but they tip over from jellied lungs.

[PNW4Life]

I don't, there are a lot of others who do have first hand experience though. I'm a big fan of the 2 holes theory of bullet performance; one to let the air in and one to let the blood out. In the testing I've done, the pieces of the petals that shear off about 4" into penetration and are large enough that they'd do some significant damage as they radiate away from the bullet shank. This would give you some serious shock while the shank carries on to ensure good penetration and an exit hole.

The owners of Hammer bullets are very responsive to questions if you wanted to reach out to them. They also have their own forum where they're really quick to respond. Plus there's a lot of good info from other guys who've shot game with the Hammers.
http://hammerbullets.boards.net/forum

I've messaged with Steve at length about his bullets and am actually on the hammer site as "wilkup" =)

[PNW4Life]

Still waiting on my action to arrive and continue going back and forth on my build idea.

I'm thinking of going with a true light-weight as I continue planning this build. I've never built anything like this before and am curious what y'all's thoughts are.

I used to own a Kimber Montana chambered in 257 Ackley Improved which wasn't bad to shoot but I'm wondering how the 300 will feel.

[kselkhunter]

If by feel you mean recoil, there are some decent online calculators for recoil energy/velocity/impulse that can give a good estimate if only for relative comparisons.

Quick calculated comparison: The Kimber Mountain Ascent in 308 is 4lb 13ounces.  With scope and rings you'd be at <6lbs.  A 175g Nosler at max load would give you around 20ft-lbs recoil.   By comparison if you built an ultralight custom 6lb 300win mag shooting a max load 175g Nosler would be around 38ft-lbs calculated recoil energy.  So almost 2x the recoil for comparing the same bullets in the same weight gun.  But the 300wm will be naturally heavier as barrels are typically 26" instead of the 22" for a 308, to take advantage of the extra powder, so it's difficult to compare apples to apples on weights between those two calibers.  I mentioned it just for comparison purposes as most are familiar with 308 recoil in lighter guns, and should give a feel for weight to target for your level of recoil comfort vs. carry weight. Update - 257AI in 6lb gun w/120g bullet is around 15 ft-lbs. recoil.

Real world personal experience comparison: My buddies lightweight Tikka in 300WSM at 7.25lb w/scope shooting 180g bullet feels similar recoil to my 35 Whelen (8lb w/scope) shooting 250gr bullet.  And the online calculator checks out; they are similar recoil at roughly ~29 ft-lbs due to weight difference in rifle, and amount of extra powder in those 300WSM cartridges.  Obviously the 300WSM shoots faster/flatter, but am just talking recoil comparison here.  And my 8.25lb 7mmRM setup is a milder compared to those two, at around 24 ft-lbs shooting 168g Nosler ABLRs.

[CaNINE]

Thought I'd share the results of a recent trip to Wyoming where I used my 300WSM to take a great bear.  I used the 200 ELD-X with great results.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,213843.0.html

[PNW4Life]

Thought I'd share the results of a recent trip to Wyoming where I used my 300WSM to take a great bear.  I used the 200 ELD-X with great results.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,213843.0.html

Sounds like a pretty incredible hunt with success that is enjoyed once in one's lifetime! I'd love to know more about your rifle build.
Looks to be a Savage action, heavier barrel contour, and McMillan stock? What's the overall weight and who's brake are you using on the end of it.

I just got the majority of my parts in for mine, but am still waiting on the action.

Componenets:
- Bartlein #3 5R 1-10"
- Vais Micro Brake
- Bell & Carlson Alaskan II
- Jewell HVR Trigger
- Wyatts CFE-5
- Hawkins Precision Bottom Metal
- Burris Veracity 2-10x42 M.A.D.

After talking with a few guys, I was influenced to swing my build towards something along the lines of the GAP Xtreme Hunter. I have it on good authority my Curtis Axiom will be arriving in 3-4 weeks and I'll get things like chambering/fluting/threading/etc completed at that point.

[CaNINE]

PNW4LIFE - You're right, I'm running a Savage varmint action.  It began life as a Model 12 VLP.  I quickly learned the gun was a shooter and decided to start upgrading components to turn it into a long range hunting rig.  I had intended to upgrade the barrel but the stock Savage varmint barrel just flat out shoots.  I'm talking 1/4 minute good, 1/2 minute on a bad day.  It just refuses to foul out on me too.  So I'm going to keep running it for the foreseeable future.

Other upgrades:

McMillan HTG stock, pillar and glass bedded by Benchmark Barrels
Benchmark Miller brake, incredibly effective
I installed a Timney Trigger set at 1.5 pound pull
PTG bolt body
bolt knob from Extreme Hardcore Gear
Nightforce 20 MOA rail
It's wearing a NF MOA 1000 4-14X, which is an SHV variant available through Bob Beck of MOA rifles, sitting in NF low rings. I'm really digging this scope for the money, its a great value.

Good luck on your build.  You have a great set of components going.

[PNW4Life]

I dig your rifle! I had no idea you could add a custom bolt to the Savage actions. Do they come over-sized like the Rem 700s to provide a tight fit?
Your build sounds impressive and the accuracy it's capable of speaks for itself! I'm guessing it's quite heavy with that varmint barrel, HTG stock, and SHV optic up top. Where's the weight land? 11+ pounds?