collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras  (Read 126107 times)

Offline Rainier10

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 15971
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #165 on: June 08, 2017, 08:09:39 AM »
Here is an excerpt talking about the Montana law from the Outdoor Life article Bob33 posted.

"A Montana wildlife law enforcement official confirmed that the driving force behind the law was “for fair chase reasons, not game management reasons.” And, their regulations state the following:

“It is illegal for a person to possess or use in the field any electronic or camera device whose purpose is to scout the location of game animals or relay the information on a game animal’s location or movement during any Commission-adopted hunting season.”
"

So they don't think that it has anything to game management, it's an ethics thing.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline lord grizzly

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 789
  • Location: idaho
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #166 on: June 08, 2017, 08:11:45 AM »
Here is an excerpt talking about the Montana law from the Outdoor Life article Bob33 posted.

"A Montana wildlife law enforcement official confirmed that the driving force behind the law was “for fair chase reasons, not game management reasons.” And, their regulations state the following:

“It is illegal for a person to possess or use in the field any electronic or camera device whose purpose is to scout the location of game animals or relay the information on a game animal’s location or movement during any Commission-adopted hunting season.”
"

So they don't think that it has anything to game management, it's an ethics thing.

I think that's what ive been saying....

Offline Rainier10

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 15971
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #167 on: June 08, 2017, 08:15:41 AM »
And what I have been saying is if it affecting game populations I am open to discussions about limiting the use of these new technologies.  If it is a "I don't hunt that way and I don't think anyone should hunt different than I do" then I have an issue with taking away the ability to use these cameras.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4463
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #168 on: June 08, 2017, 08:26:25 AM »
And what I have been saying is if it affecting game populations I am open to discussions about limiting the use of these new technologies.  If it is a "I don't hunt that way and I don't think anyone should hunt different than I do" then I have an issue with taking away the ability to use these cameras.

Exactly...that's what many of these restrictions come down to.... It's our own fellow hunters trying to define what the hunt is for another hunter.... it's the aesthetics... that's 99% of the issue over things like baiting.
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50475
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #169 on: June 08, 2017, 08:27:14 AM »
Question to your point.  How could you ever monitor that one factor in its relationship to harvest or population trends.  How could you differentiate it with say the other 20 factors effecting populations......doesn't there have to be some sort of thought, discussion into its logic, or not.

Quick example......the muledeer population in the Methow.  What factor led to the demise of the herd....... prove it.

Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4463
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #170 on: June 08, 2017, 08:30:58 AM »
Question to your point.  How could you ever monitor that one factor in its relationship to harvest or population trends.  How could you differentiate it with say the other 20 factors effecting populations......doesn't there have to be some sort of thought, discussion into its logic, or not.

Quick example......the muledeer population in the Methow.  What factor led to the demise of the herd....... prove it.

A well structured study could determine the impact.
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

Offline fishngamereaper

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 8758
  • Location: kitsap
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #171 on: June 08, 2017, 08:35:14 AM »
How about range finder scopes, or use of NV or IR to follow game until legal shooting light. New technology, but ethical/ increased harvest opportunity.  Give people an inch they take a mile. Taking the " hunt" out of hunting.

Offline hunter399

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8689
  • Location: In Your Hunting Spot
  • Groups: NRA RMEF
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #172 on: June 08, 2017, 08:35:32 AM »
And what I have been saying is if it affecting game populations I am open to discussions about limiting the use of these new technologies.  If it is a "I don't hunt that way and I don't think anyone should hunt different than I do" then I have an issue with taking away the ability to use these cameras.

HUNTING ETHICS. ... FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

The Rules of Fair Chase

The term “Fair Chase” shall not include the taking of animals under the following conditions:

Helpless in a trap, deep snow or water, or on ice.
From any power vehicle or power boat.
By “jacklighting” or shining at night.
By the use of any tranquilizers or poisons.
While inside escape-proof fenced enclosures.
By the use of any power vehicle or power boats for herding or driving animals, including use of aircraft to land alongside or to communicate with or direct a hunter on the ground.
By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached with the exception of lighted nocks and recording devices that cast no light towards the target and do not aid in rangefinding, sighting or shooting the bow.
Any other condition considered by the Board of Directors as unacceptable.
The fair chase concept does, however, extend beyond the hunt itself; it is an attitude and a way of life based in a deep-seated respect for wildlife, for the environment, and for other individuals who share the bounty of this vast continent’s natural resources.

Some people have more respect for wildlife than others I guess ,as for it effecting game populations ,it will over time when cell trail cams become more affordable for every sportsman.This attitude that it's not effecting game populations now so why worry about is not good , that is part of the problem with wildlife management.Cause we wait ,then the populations take a lot of years to rebound.

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50475
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #173 on: June 08, 2017, 08:36:46 AM »
too many variables, sometimes common sense has to come into play. 

I think Montana handled it wisely.

Online bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 39189
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #174 on: June 08, 2017, 08:39:36 AM »
Studies won't and can't prove anything, in my opinion. At least not the kind of study that would be economically feasible to conduct.

Most hunting regulations are going to be based on what people in general feel is right or wrong, or fair chase, or not.

I bet if spotting game from the air and then communiticating the location to a hunter on the ground were legal, it would not have a significant impact on deer or elk populations, or even if it did, it would be difficult or impossible to prove.

So why not change the laws regarding spotting game from the air so that is no longer illegal?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 08:50:28 AM by bobcat »

Offline Rainier10

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 15971
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #175 on: June 08, 2017, 08:43:15 AM »
Question to your point.  How could you ever monitor that one factor in its relationship to harvest or population trends.  How could you differentiate it with say the other 20 factors effecting populations......doesn't there have to be some sort of thought, discussion into its logic, or not.

Quick example......the muledeer population in the Methow.  What factor led to the demise of the herd....... prove it.
I agree there are a ton of factors.  The WDFW is supposed to be monitoring the herd health and adjusting season dates, permit allotment, weapon restrictions and rule changes in an effort to maintain healthy numbers while maintaining the habitat for the animals and opportunity for the hunting community.

If they say that the population is down, like in the Methow and they say the way to fix it is to eliminate doe permits, go to permit only for bucks during the modern firearm season, eliminate any late season archery hunts and eliminate the use of trail cameras during the hunting season I would be willing to listen to that argument.

If it is a conversation of ethics and "I don't hunt like that and I don't want anyone to hunt different than I do", then you are getting onto a slippery slope.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline lord grizzly

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 789
  • Location: idaho
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #176 on: June 08, 2017, 08:47:30 AM »
too many variables, sometimes common sense has to come into play. 

I think Montana handled it wisely.

one of the most intelligible replies in this thread yet.

Offline Rainier10

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 15971
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #177 on: June 08, 2017, 08:48:27 AM »
And what I have been saying is if it affecting game populations I am open to discussions about limiting the use of these new technologies.  If it is a "I don't hunt that way and I don't think anyone should hunt different than I do" then I have an issue with taking away the ability to use these cameras.

HUNTING ETHICS. ... FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

The Rules of Fair Chase

The term “Fair Chase” shall not include the taking of animals under the following conditions:

Helpless in a trap, deep snow or water, or on ice.
From any power vehicle or power boat.
By “jacklighting” or shining at night.
By the use of any tranquilizers or poisons.
While inside escape-proof fenced enclosures.
By the use of any power vehicle or power boats for herding or driving animals, including use of aircraft to land alongside or to communicate with or direct a hunter on the ground.
By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached with the exception of lighted nocks and recording devices that cast no light towards the target and do not aid in rangefinding, sighting or shooting the bow.
Any other condition considered by the Board of Directors as unacceptable.
The fair chase concept does, however, extend beyond the hunt itself; it is an attitude and a way of life based in a deep-seated respect for wildlife, for the environment, and for other individuals who share the bounty of this vast continent’s natural resources.

Some people have more respect for wildlife than others I guess ,as for it effecting game populations ,it will over time when cell trail cams become more affordable for every sportsman.This attitude that it's not effecting game populations now so why worry about is not good , that is part of the problem with wildlife management.Cause we wait ,then the populations take a lot of years to rebound.
You do realize that hunting effects game populations correct?  Guns, muzzleloaders and archery equipment are all used to take animals thus effecting game populations.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 09:12:32 AM by Rainier10 »
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4463
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #178 on: June 08, 2017, 09:16:06 AM »
Studies won't and can't prove anything, in my opinion. At least not the kind of study that would be economically feasible to conduct.

Most hunting regulations are going to be based on what people in general feel is right or wrong, or fair chase, or not.

I bet if spotting game from the air and then communiticating the location to a hunter on the ground were legal, it would not have a significant impact on deer or elk populations, or even if it did, it would be difficult or impossible to prove.

So why not change the laws regarding spotting game from the air so that is no longer illegal?

I agree with you... it probably wouldn't have a significant impact because it simply wouldn't be within the financial reach of most people. If anything it shouldn't be allowed because of the impact it would have on the experience of other hunters.

The problem with leaving it up to people's feelings is that the majority will always define the aesthetics of  the hunt/experience for everyone else. The average whitetail bowhunter hunting in the mountains of NE WA is likely to get after things much differently than the guy who does spot and stalk in open country or calls in elk with a bugle, or walks around in the woods looking for deer during the rifle season. However, those other groups are more than happy to place restrictions on things they don't use because it doesn't meet their own personal definition of "hunting".......... Meanwhile that bowhunter may think plinking animals at several hundred yards with a rifle and optics doesn't require all that much skill.... who gets to decide... if we go off feelings I guess it's good to be in the majority.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 09:25:55 AM by DBHAWTHORNE »
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4463
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras
« Reply #179 on: June 08, 2017, 09:22:38 AM »
I will say this.. there are certain laws you guys could pass that can guarantee someone like me will move out of the state. A Montana type game cam law would be one of them. You might think that is great...and perhaps it would be in your lifetime... but eventually you too will lose the support for the things you enjoy and someone like me who would be that additional voice supporting your rights won't be there...... hopefully for your own interests it won't be in your generation (I feel sorry for the next generations though)...If there is going to be a state where we see big restrictions on hunting in the future then I'd have to think WA would be near the top of the list... aside from the crazy politics on the west side we seem to have so many hunters more than willing to join the side of those who want to restrict opportunity.
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Getting back into dogs by bearpaw
[Today at 09:06:14 PM]


Cowiche Quality Buck by Nwgunner
[Today at 08:55:00 PM]


MA-10 Coho by WAcoueshunter
[Today at 08:50:46 PM]


Is FS70 open? by CarbonHunter
[Today at 08:09:04 PM]


AKC lab puppies! Born 06/10/2025 follow as they grow!!! by scottfrick
[Today at 07:57:31 PM]


Muzzy Mission Quality!!! by NOCK NOCK
[Today at 07:49:11 PM]


Idaho 2025 Controlled Hunts by fc2038
[Today at 07:47:20 PM]


Basin elk by acrocker
[Today at 06:53:15 PM]


Bow mount trolling motors by Badhabit
[Today at 06:27:53 PM]


Nooksack Archery Tag by LongBomb
[Today at 05:48:19 PM]


Colockum Archery Bull Tag by Smittyk44
[Today at 04:23:53 PM]


49 degrees north late Moose tag by Buzzsaw461
[Today at 04:11:52 PM]


I'm Going To Need Karl To Come up With That 290 Muley Sunscreen Bug Spray Combo by BULLBLASTER
[Today at 03:53:35 PM]


Mature bulls during late season? by Pete112288
[Today at 03:51:08 PM]


best draw for moose unit wise by deadwoodbuck
[Today at 03:29:03 PM]


Stillaguamish 448 QD rifle tag by Hi-Liter
[Today at 03:23:47 PM]


Vashon Island deer tag by bowhunter_1
[Today at 02:59:43 PM]


2025 OILS! by jackelope
[Today at 01:47:31 PM]


Big J's Powder list by BigJs Outdoor Store
[Today at 12:59:31 PM]


FFL preferences or warnings in Olympia or south Sound area? by Knocker of rocks
[Today at 11:07:04 AM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal