Car buying vs. Boat buying

[eastsidemallard74]

My fellow experts, mostly boat sellers, I sold cars for awhile, and it's a cut throat world. In relation to buying a boat, is it the same idea, "Room to wiggle/ negotiate". Also buying a boat at a show vs at the dealership. I know with cars they just have companies that come in and pressure sale. I'm looking for a boat, and going to the Spokane shows this weekend, just like some input. I'm looking for a modified ,around 20', want something about 100hp to 125 pump. I'm not much of a fisherman, but my kids are getting to that age to where they may want to. I like the smokercraft super pro i think its called. Anyways any help, suggestions, ideas, secrets to getting good deals on boats much appreciated.

[lokidog]

Find a couple models you like and then look for a slightly used one.

For new, call a variety of places all over the state and OR.  OR can make some deals as they can sell the engine separately so no sales tax on it or for the rigging expenses.

Look at the NADA blue book boat values, this is not what they will offer as a sale price, but likely the maximum they paid for or gave credit for on a trade in, so probably the absolute bottom line, if you're lucky, from a dealer.

[fishngamereaper]

Very little to no wiggle room on new boat's. Especially aluminum. The price of the product is set by cost of materials. If your up that way look into hewescraft, built in colville. Good solid boats.

[ASHQUACK]

I think the Smoker craft you are thinking about is the Sportsman 20. Those boats are brand new this year and you can't hardly buy a new one let alone a used one. That said they look to be great boats. Give Gary a call at Verles in Shelton 360 426 0933 and talk to him about them. Tell him Mitch sent ya. He worked his ass off to get me into one but I ended up going with a SuperVee.

[eastsidemallard74]

Thanks, I'm only looking new, just unsure about buying used boats. There's 3 ive looked at, the rh, smokercraft, and obviously the alumaweld, but their a little too hi for my budget. I also looked at the g3, just seems to low on the sides. If you buy in Oregon, like a cat, do you still pay taxes on them in Washington?

[MADMAX]

yes on taxs
Hit the boat shows and get an idea for what you like
I have had good luck with  buying new from
http://nwmarineandsport.com/
I bought a new 20FT NW and 22 ft Hewes from them

my 2 cents
buy 4 stroke motors and never use standard pump gas
use ethanol free

[ASHQUACK]

Thanks, I'm only looking new, just unsure about buying used boats. There's 3 ive looked at, the rh, smokercraft, and obviously the alumaweld, but their a little too hi for my budget. I also looked at the g3, just seems to low on the sides. If you buy in Oregon, like a cat, do you still pay taxes on them in Washington?

Yes and no on the taxes. You will pay for anything that has to be licensed like the boat hull and trailer but the motors(s) and any other accessories can be purchased separate.

I think you'll find that the sportsman and SuperVee come pretty close in cost once you're done adding power.

[Stein]

For the best price, find a dealer in the same town as the factory, preferably in Oregon.  They won't charge a delivery fee since they are right next to the factory and they should also be familiar with writing up two invoices as mentioned.  I bought my RH in Medford and had a receipt for the hull and trailer and a second one for the motor, seats, canvas top, fish box upgrade, etc.  I ended up saving $3k over the price at Cabelas and ended up with the exact motor, color and options package I wanted.

[hunter399]

You know what b-o-a-t stands for.
Bust out another thousand, you will never get back.

[Zuus]

Two best days of a boat owners life: the day he buys it, and the day he sells it!

[lokidog]

Two best days of a boat owners life: the day he buys it, and the day he sells it!

You know what b-o-a-t stands for.
Bust out another thousand, you will never get back.

Only ever said by people who don't spend time in their boat or who only ever spend time on someone else's boat..... 

[hunter399]

Two best days of a boat owners life: the day he buys it, and the day he sells it!

You know what b-o-a-t stands for.
Bust out another thousand, you will never get back.

Only ever said by people who don't spend time in their boat or who only ever spend time on someone else's boat.....

Has nothing to do with spending quality time in a boat,just the resell value sucks.

[HntnFsh]

For the best price, find a dealer in the same town as the factory, preferably in Oregon.  They won't charge a delivery fee since they are right next to the factory and they should also be familiar with writing up two invoices as mentioned.  I bought my RH in Medford and had a receipt for the hull and trailer and a second one for the motor, seats, canvas top, fish box upgrade, etc.  I ended up saving $3k over the price at Cabelas and ended up with the exact motor, color and options package I wanted.

That's what both of my brother in laws did. I think the RH boats are a great option for most people

[Buzz2401]

I would highly suggest you find something used.  It may seem like the price difference isn't that much but by the time you rig a boat it costs way more then what you paid for the used one.  Bought a brand new boat once and honestly felt it was one of the worst financial decisions I have ever made.  I used the crap out of it and would never regret buying a boat but will never buy a new one again.

[asmith]

I bought a new boat at the spokane boat show 2 years ago.  Biggest mistake of my life.  I'd been looking for a boat for about 1 year, and decided to go to the show since I haven't been able to find what I was looking for used.  Bought a new 20' starweld.  I more than happy with the boat, just not with the $45k loan that came with it.  Especially since I saw used boats fitting what I was looking for about 1 month after the show. 

BUY USED, YOU GET MORE FOR LESS!

[scotsman]

Go to the show, but instead of looking at new boats ask to see their list of used / consigned boats. Just like with cars, some people with more money than brains trade in every couple of years to have the ‘newest and best’. After the show those nice trade ins will pop up both in dealers lists and CL.

Whatever you do, dont buy at the show. Thise Show Only prices will be good for another month or so after the show closes - this will give you some cool down time both to look for comparisons and better financing. If you must buy at the show, go with your financing pre qualified. Alaska Credit Union specializes in boat finacing and always has good rates. Also being pre qualified gives you lots of bargaining leverage.

[Stein]

It really depends on the boat and what is available on the market.  When I was looking, used boats that were ran pretty hard were selling for maybe $3k less than a new one and they didn't have the options I wanted.  For $3k, I was more than happy to have a brand new boat, motor and trailer, break the motor in myself and have the exact motor and options package I wanted.

Before that, I always bought used because I could get a decent boat for 1/3 to 1/2 of new and I didn't care what it looked like.

My boat is the only vehicle I have ever bought new and I'm 100% glad I made that decision.  If I could have saved $10k, I would have gone used, but the used market for nice aluminum boats in the mid length range that are very well taken care of can be extremely tight.

[Stein]

Go to the show, but instead of looking at new boats ask to see their list of used / consigned boats. Just like with cars, some people with more money than brains trade in every couple of years to have the ‘newest and best’. After the show those nice trade ins will pop up both in dealers lists and CL.

Whatever you do, dont buy at the show. Thise Show Only prices will be good for another month or so after the show closes - this will give you some cool down time both to look for comparisons and better financing. If you must buy at the show, go with your financing pre qualified. Alaska Credit Union specializes in boat finacing and always has good rates. Also being pre qualified gives you lots of bargaining leverage.

Good advice there.  Another thing about show boats is they are notoriously underpowered - they put the smallest motor they can on to get the attention grabbing price.

[PolarBear]

Two best days of a boat owners life: the day he buys it, and the day he sells it!

You know what b-o-a-t stands for.
Bust out another thousand, you will never get back.

Only ever said by people who don't spend time in their boat or who only ever spend time on someone else's boat.....

Or those too lazy or cheap to do preventative maintenance or buy crappy boats to begin with.  Unless you hare having a specific boat built always buy used, let them take the depreciation and go over every inch of it with a fine tooth comb or have a reputable mechanic give it a physical.

[archeryfreak]

I bought new in March of 2017.  There's little to no wiggle room on the overall price.  Make sure you get the safety package (life vests, fire exgtinguisher, whistle, etc..)  safety package, depth finder, pole holders, and anchor package.  I was able to get all of that for free, plus boat show pricing from Clemens.  I believe the Eugene boat show is still to come, so you can take advantage of that option from Clemens since they have a shop down there.  PM if any other info needed.

[hunter399]

Two best days of a boat owners life: the day he buys it, and the day he sells it!

You know what b-o-a-t stands for.
Bust out another thousand, you will never get back.

Only ever said by people who don't spend time in their boat or who only ever spend time on someone else's boat.....

Or those too lazy or cheap to do preventative maintenance or buy crappy boats to begin with.  Unless you hare having a specific boat built always buy used, let them take the depreciation and go over every inch of it with a fine tooth comb or have a reputable mechanic give it a physical.

Says the guy that calls me cheap and lazy ,always buy used.

[hunter399]

Here's my advise if it's long term boat that your not gonna resell spend the 💰 and get something nice ,that's gonna fulfill your needs for many years,If you may resell don't expect what you paid worse than selling a car.Buying new just like a car ,price,payment,interest rate,is always negotiated.Cash is king and always talks the loudest,best of luck.

[EWUeagles]

I bought a new boat about 6 years ago and there was plenty of wiggle room. I was able to get a year older hull that was never in the water for about 1/2 the price of the current model. If you look around there's still deals to be found on new boats. Also if you're coming to Spokane for the boat show you might as well drive over and check out Elephant Boys. They no longer go to show but have a lot of boat options.

[eastsidemallard74]

Thanks guys, a lot to consider. 1st boat purchase, so all new. but I'm a stickler, and if it aint what i want, not getting. Plus once again, my kids are all getting to the age of going out to fish, not super excited about the headaches of tangled lines, but, it is the memories. If I buy in Oregon, sorry to beat a dead horse, buy boat/trailer on one invoice, and buy the rest on another to save from taxes, did I understand that correctly? My wife saw the Smokercraft at the Sportsman show in Pasco, she was like, I actually like that boat.

[eastsidemallard74]

I actually did at the end of waterfowl season last year, just wasn't ready to pull the trigger than, now I just might. They have good deals in there, and no hassle from the sales guy there.

I bought a new boat about 6 years ago and there was plenty of wiggle room. I was able to get a year older hull that was never in the water for about 1/2 the price of the current model. If you look around there's still deals to be found on new boats. Also if you're coming to Spokane for the boat show you might as well drive over and check out Elephant Boys. They no longer go to show but have a lot of boat options.

[Jerry malbeck]

If buying aluminum hull pay attention to thickness of hull..   .80 is a tracker , smoker craft ETC. you will want at least a .100 hull thickness 3/16 is even better.I have seen several tracker, smoker craft and also alumaweld and sea ark hulls crack after one season of use.Do some research on hull thickness and save yourself some grief.If you really want to save some money go back east have a custom built and go pick it up .Check out a company called Long Beach customs in mississippi .Or oquawka boats.These hulls are custom made and cost no more then a cookie cutter hull.And the are tanks.

[lokidog]

If buying aluminum hull pay attention to thickness of hull..   .80 is a tracker , smoker craft ETC. you will want at least a .100 hull thickness 3/16 is even better.I have seen several tracker, smoker craft and also alumaweld and sea ark hulls crack after one season of use.Do some research on hull thickness and save yourself some grief.If you really want to save some money go back east have a custom built and go pick it up .Check out a company called Long Beach customs in mississippi .Or oquawka boats.These hulls are custom made and cost no more then a cookie cutter hull.And the are tanks.

For average use, the Alumawelds are fine.  I beat the crap out of mine in all kinds of weather on the Sound for about 8 years and had absolutely no hull/aluminum issues.

[magnanimous_j]

Two best days of a boat owners life: the day he buys it, and the day he sells it!

You know what b-o-a-t stands for.
Bust out another thousand, you will never get back.

Only ever said by people who don't spend time in their boat or who only ever spend time on someone else's boat.....

Couldn't agree more.

If you think of a boat as a toy, you will eventually grow to hate it for the maintenance.

If you commit to the idea of a boat being a lifestyle choice, it can be incredibly rewarding.

Marketers make you think you can do everything in this life. But if you try, you'll end up not really doing anything except writing checks.

[ASHQUACK]

To answer your question about buying in OR, yes two invoices or even three if you are financing it.
I bought the SuperVee at Clemens in OR. They have done several sales for guys in Wa and were great to deal with. That said Gary at Verles said he could almost match their price to compensate for the taxes.

For the guys saying buy used, The aluminum hull market is tough and guys are getting almost as much money for a couple year old boat as a new one. Plus I have the lifetime hull warranty that goes with the new boat and the 3 year warranty on both my motors.

I am sitting right at 42 with a tandem trailer, yes I recommend getting a tandem if you go over 18 feet.

[Skillet]

If buying aluminum hull pay attention to thickness of hull..   .80 is a tracker , smoker craft ETC. you will want at least a .100 hull thickness 3/16 is even better.I have seen several tracker, smoker craft and also alumaweld and sea ark hulls crack after one season of use.Do some research on hull thickness and save yourself some grief.If you really want to save some money go back east have a custom built and go pick it up .Check out a company called Long Beach customs in mississippi .Or oquawka boats.These hulls are custom made and cost no more then a cookie cutter hull.And the are tanks.

For average use, the Alumawelds are fine.  I beat the crap out of mine in all kinds of weather on the Sound for about 8 years and had absolutely no hull/aluminum issues.

Agree 100%.  OP doesn't need anything more than a .100 hull for what he's planning to do, and there are thousands of .080 hulls out there that work just fine.  I ran a welded .100 thick Smokercraft Rogue 1686 hard for years and had zero issues.  Welds were ugly, but the ducks and fish didn't seem to mind.

Just commit to taking care of your boat, it will last.

[JimmyHoffa]

Two best days of a boat owners life: the day he buys it, and the day he sells it!

I was recently informed there is a third day.  The day the check clears.

[follow maggie]

I see a lot of guys writing that buying a used boat saves a ton of cash. I’ve been looking around and, at least for aluminum which is what I want, the truth is exactly 180 opposite. Boats n even just decent shape are advertised at just shy of a new one. I’d buy the new one to get the warranty and not have to fix whatever some ignorant hack did to it to make it “better”.

I was at the Sportsman’s show Friday and looked at the Smokercraft Sportsman, and it’s nice. Even the guy from Hewes Craft was commenting it’s a nice boat & well made. I thought it was an Alumaweld until he told me it’s a Smokercraft. Verles pricing was around $30k with 80-115 hp jet, I think.

[ASHQUACK]

I see a lot of guys writing that buying a used boat saves a ton of cash. I’ve been looking around and, at least for aluminum which is what I want, the truth is exactly 180 opposite. Boats n even just decent shape are advertised at just shy of a new one. I’d buy the new one to get the warranty and not have to fix whatever some ignorant hack did to it to make it “better”.

I was at the Sportsman’s show Friday and looked at the Smokercraft Sportsman, and it’s nice. Even the guy from Hewes Craft was commenting it’s a nice boat & well made. I thought it was an Alumaweld until he told me it’s a Smokercraft. Verles pricing was around $30k with 80-115 hp jet, I think.

Alumaweld has a hand in making those.

[hunthard]

I bought an Alumaweld from Verle's in 2006, had it up in Neah Bay, Sekiu, Puget sound and the Cowlitz and lots of lakes here in Washington, it's been great, no hull issues at all.

[Skyvalhunter]

open seat?

[Stein]

For about $30k you can get into an RH 180 Sea Hawk with curtains and bench seats if you are looking for something with more comfort both running and fishing unless you really want an open boat.

[Bofire]

Lots of guys I have known bought boats, I have never heard any of them say they wish they had bought a smaller motor, many say "I should have bought a %%%%% when I got it".
Have fun shopping and your new boat!
Carl

[eastsidemallard74]

Thanks again for all the good feedback. My dream would be to own a Alumaweld, the problem is the 50K sticker.  I am going to mainly use in the winter over on the east side for waterfowl hunting, so a lot of sand,shallow water running, and occasionally river running when the lakes get to frozen to maneuver. I looked at a Rh 20' which I'm leaning towards because the metal is very close to same guage as the Alumaweld, just 20k less, and thats set up the way I want, big motor,depth/gps system, lights, power supplies,extra battery.

[Wetwoodshunter]

If buying aluminum hull pay attention to thickness of hull..   .80 is a tracker , smoker craft ETC. you will want at least a .100 hull thickness 3/16 is even better.I have seen several tracker, smoker craft and also alumaweld and sea ark hulls crack after one season of use.Do some research on hull thickness and save yourself some grief.If you really want to save some money go back east have a custom built and go pick it up .Check out a company called Long Beach customs in mississippi .Or oquawka boats.These hulls are custom made and cost no more then a cookie cutter hull.And the are tanks.

For average use, the Alumawelds are fine.  I beat the crap out of mine in all kinds of weather on the Sound for about 8 years and had absolutely no hull/aluminum issues.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear I saw pictures of your boat sunk at the dock. What was the issue when it sunk? Where did the water get in from?

[lokidog]

Never did figure it out.  I think someone messed with it.  There was another boat that mysteriously "sank" in the marina not too long after. Nothing wrong with the hull though, pulled it out and no water going in or out.

[Pnwrider]

I recently went through this with a totally different style of boat. In fact my boat starts getting built next week! Used prices were close enough to new prices for the most part. The real deals all sold within hours of being posted. And with used, you can’t control options. Some are easy to add later, but some are impossible. Plus buying new you get a relationship started with the dealer. So when it’s the middle of summer, you get service right away should you need it. Meanwhile the guy that bought the used boat is waiting a few weeks for service. Especially if the boat was bought out of territory. Warranty claims can also be tougher in that situation too.

Edit: as far as pricing and negotiating goes, it varies widely by manufacturer and dealer network. Some boats have a lot of margin (room for negotiation) and some don’t. It can even vary customer to customer (based on dealer relationship). Unfortunately it’s less transparent than the car market and finding dealer invoice can be tough. I’ve looked at seedealercost.com and find it to be way off in some cases and fairly close in others.

[PolarBear]

Never did figure it out.  I think someone messed with it.  There was another boat that mysteriously "sank" in the marina not too long after. Nothing wrong with the hull though, pulled it out and no water going in or out.

Could it have been tied off too tight?  My old work Boak sank and flipped at the dock because one of my crew tied it too tight, not allowing the bow to rise with large waves, took one or more over the bow and swamped it.

[CAMPMEAT]

My fellow experts, mostly boat sellers, I sold cars for awhile, and it's a cut throat world. In relation to buying a boat, is it the same idea, "Room to wiggle/ negotiate". Also buying a boat at a show vs at the dealership. I know with cars they just have companies that come in and pressure sale. I'm looking for a boat, and going to the Spokane shows this weekend, just like some input. I'm looking for a modified ,around 20', want something about 100hp to 125 pump. I'm not much of a fisherman, but my kids are getting to that age to where they may want to. I like the smokercraft super pro i think its called. Anyways any help, suggestions, ideas, secrets to getting good deals on boats much appreciated.

My longtime friend works for HEWES in Colville. He knows this business pretty good. He said the absolute best place to buy a boat from is, ClarksAllSports in Colville. Gary, the owner doesn't pay shipping, because he picks the boats up himself.

[724wd]

a boat is just a hole in the water you throw money into 

and I wouldn't have it any other way!  LOVE boating!!!