Wolf supporters, you happy ?

[jackelope]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

You guys are so smart..   First off, with all the wolf hating windbags on the internet why has Idaho never filled their wolf harvest quota? Typing is easier than leaving the comfort of your home and truck?

Now for a history lesson.. Prior to the late 90s in Idaho the Lion harvest was on average 800 to 900 cats per year. After 1998 the average has been 400 to 500 cats per year. During the post 1998 era they added 1000 wolves roughly. Now, how many cats were added in that 20 years of reduced lion harvest, on average of 400 per year? (1998 to 2018)

Simplistic explanations of complex population dynamics come from simple minds.. Do wolves reduce dear & elk populations, yes. Are they the largest contributor to the problem in Washington.. not even close. In Idaho, more so but still not the major cause of the decline.
Now grab your red capes and baskets and head over to grandma's house... it will be ok.. I promise!!!! 

From your statement then the lack of harvest of all predators has contributed to the decline. As such they all need more management.

As usual us sportsmen are arguing the details and ignoring the broad facts.
The issue needs to be how do we in crease harvest of all predators in the areas most effected.?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Thank God someone sees it. The overall problem is really obvious to me. It's not JUST wolves.  If you think it is, you've got blinders on.

Most of the Cougar quota's for WA is fulfilled, hunters have done their part in that regard.  It's not OUR fault the quota's are too small and pathetic.

We could kill more coyotes, We could kill more fall bears.


What we need to do is pressure WDFW through emails to our local elected officials to increase the Cougar quota's and spring bear draws by A LOT!


We need to pressure WDFW to revisit the wolf plan, de-list, and create a hunting season on them. 
We need to be involved, and part of that is educating other hunters on this very forum, this forum has generated a lot of letters to our representatives. 

Do you know there are wildlife org's in our state already doing that? They need our help but they're not getting it.

[KFhunter]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

100%

This is not an accurate portrayal of the facts.  Unmanaged wolves certainly had some impact on the perception of hunting quality in Idaho, but the primary factor in lower non-resident hunters was a major NR tag price increase at the same time as a major recession.  While some will deny the impact of weather, I will also remind folks at the same time as these price increases, and the same time as wolves still being ESA listed, we had a pretty hard winter in '08.  I remember getting 37 or 39 inches of snow in one 24 hour period in that winter.  The combo of wolves, price/recession, and hard winters taking a toll on game is why NR hunters were low for several years starting in 2009.  About 2013-15 folks started to see good increases in game numbers...and with a substantially improved economy and no (or minimal) price increases...we are back to seeing NR tags sell out.  Anyways, just passing along in case facts are of interest to folks.   

Recession?  Weather?  Fee increase?   

Pure D nonsence. 

The fee's just increased again by more than it did 10 years ago in a lot of western states and non-res hunters are on the increase in ID (sold out as you say) especially hunters from WA where our hunting quality is tanking. So ya, the big fee increases in WY/MT/CO are really driving away hunters    ID added a new depredation fee but are doing a price lock deal which is cool. 

We haven't had a hard winter in years and neither has ID, we've had a bunch of mild winters where game SHOULD have increased (and did in ID, where they control wolves) and we've had a few 'normal' winters.  We haven't had a hard winter in many years.  Even by your articles posted a few back the cow survival rate was 99% and calf survival rates were 50% or something, but it failed to address what was killing the calves.  *hint* it wasn't the snow 

Facts are a fickle thing, so easy to manipulate.

[idahohuntr]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

100%

This is not an accurate portrayal of the facts.  Unmanaged wolves certainly had some impact on the perception of hunting quality in Idaho, but the primary factor in lower non-resident hunters was a major NR tag price increase at the same time as a major recession.  While some will deny the impact of weather, I will also remind folks at the same time as these price increases, and the same time as wolves still being ESA listed, we had a pretty hard winter in '08.  I remember getting 37 or 39 inches of snow in one 24 hour period in that winter.  The combo of wolves, price/recession, and hard winters taking a toll on game is why NR hunters were low for several years starting in 2009.  About 2013-15 folks started to see good increases in game numbers...and with a substantially improved economy and no (or minimal) price increases...we are back to seeing NR tags sell out.  Anyways, just passing along in case facts are of interest to folks.   

Recession?  Weather?  Fee increase?   

Pure D nonsence. 

The fee's just increased again by more than it did 10 years ago and non-res hunters are on the increase in ID (sold out as you say) especially hunters from WA where our hunting quality is tanking. So ya, the big fee increases are really driving away hunters 

We haven't had a hard winter in years and neither has ID, we've had a bunch of mild winters where game SHOULD have increased (and did in ID, where they control wolves) and we've had a few 'normal' winters.  We haven't had a hard winter in many years.  Even by your articles posted a few back the cow survival rate was 99% and calf survival rates were 50% or something, but it failed to address what was killing the calves.  *hint* it wasn't the snow 

Facts are a fickle thing, so easy to manipulate.

I'm not sure if you are lying or just completely incompetent.  NR tag and license fees in Idaho have in no way "increased more than they did 10 years ago".  Deer tags, elk tags, and hunting licenses cost the same today as they did in 2009.  But the economy is booming now...again though, my statements were directed to those interested in facts...not folks who are hell bent on blaming all of life's problems on wolves. 

[KFhunter]

Do you know there are wildlife org's in our state already doing that? They need our help but they're not getting it.

We've had this discussion on SCI where I got schooled on what they actually do, I always thought they were rich elitists but happy I was wrong, still; I can't be the only one thinking that.

I don't really need a .org to work on habitat in my spare time, I already work on habitat.  As I've said elsewhere I plant a lot of feed, control predators, I protect a big chunk of riparian area where I should be grazing cattle but don't, I leave corners and strips, I plan oat, alfalfa, Triticale and 4way grass.   I used to have 50+ deer each night in my fields but in the last 10 years I'm lucky to see 4 or 5 and I'm really lucky if 1 or 2 fawns last the first year.  Cats come down and wipe one or two out and I'm back to a couple doe's.  No one hunts them, if a buck or two comes in I might let a youth hunt one so a non-resident buck (big one) has a better chance at covering them.  The only thing I've been able to really help is birds, I'm fixing to get pheasant going soon cause man I'd love to hunt wild pheasant here.  I got a lot of quail now, didn't have a single bird 15 years ago, now they're thick.  I control skunks and that helps the nesting quail.

I plan to join RMEF again and SCI in the near future, but I think I do enough labor 

[KFhunter]

I'm not sure if you are lying or just completely incompetent.  NR tag and license fees in Idaho have in no way "increased more than they did 10 years ago"

I suppose you're right if you're doing the price lock thing     but you get to pay the depredation fee.   I was mistaken though, it's MT and WY and some other western states with the bigger non-res fee increase

my bad, but you don't need to be so inflammatory about it.  I edited it, so thanks for informing us all that ID hasn't increased their fees much, should draw even more WA hunters as our quality declines more and more.

[Ridgeratt]

Do you know there are wildlife org's in our state already doing that? They need our help but they're not getting it.

We've had this discussion on SCI where I got schooled on what they actually do, I always thought they were rich elitists but happy I was wrong, still; I can't be the only one thinking that.

I don't really need a .org to work on habitat in my spare time, I already work on habitat.  As I've said elsewhere I plant a lot of feed, control predators, I protect a big chunk of riparian area where I should be grazing cattle but don't, I leave corners and strips, I plan oat, alfalfa, Triticale and 4way grass.   I used to have 50+ deer each night in my fields but in the last 10 years I'm lucky to see 4 or 5 and I'm really lucky if 1 or 2 fawns last the first year.  Cats come down and wipe one or two out and I'm back to a couple doe's.  No one hunts them, if a buck or two comes in I might let a youth hunt one so a non-resident buck (big one) has a better chance at covering them.  The only thing I've been able to really help is birds, I'm fixing to get pheasant going soon cause man I'd love to hunt wild pheasant here.  I got a lot of quail now, didn't have a single bird 15 years ago, now they're thick.  I control skunks and that helps the nesting quail.

I plan to join RMEF again and SCI in the near future, but I think I do enough labor 

KF I believe that we have about the same amount of does. I wonder what is going to happen to them after the new whitetail shootin fest the WDFW came up with this year. 

[KFhunter]

Ya, I don't know what they're thinking. 


kill all the game to control predators?   

[jackelope]

Do you know there are wildlife org's in our state already doing that? They need our help but they're not getting it.

We've had this discussion on SCI where I got schooled on what they actually do, I always thought they were rich elitists but happy I was wrong, still; I can't be the only one thinking that.

I don't really need a .org to work on habitat in my spare time, I already work on habitat.  As I've said elsewhere I plant a lot of feed, control predators, I protect a big chunk of riparian area where I should be grazing cattle but don't, I leave corners and strips, I plan oat, alfalfa, Triticale and 4way grass.   I used to have 50+ deer each night in my fields but in the last 10 years I'm lucky to see 4 or 5 and I'm really lucky if 1 or 2 fawns last the first year.  Cats come down and wipe one or two out and I'm back to a couple doe's.  No one hunts them, if a buck or two comes in I might let a youth hunt one so a non-resident buck (big one) has a better chance at covering them.  The only thing I've been able to really help is birds, I'm fixing to get pheasant going soon cause man I'd love to hunt wild pheasant here.  I got a lot of quail now, didn't have a single bird 15 years ago, now they're thick.  I control skunks and that helps the nesting quail.

I plan to join RMEF again and SCI in the near future, but I think I do enough labor 

I think your habitat work is awesome. I'm jealous I don't have that kind of land to make a difference like that, but I asked that in response to your comments about putting more pressure on government, etc. This one:

Most of the Cougar quota's for WA is fulfilled, hunters have done their part in that regard.  It's not OUR fault the quota's are too small and pathetic.

We could kill more coyotes, We could kill more fall bears.


What we need to do is pressure WDFW through emails to our local elected officials to increase the Cougar quota's and spring bear draws by A LOT!


We need to pressure WDFW to revisit the wolf plan, de-list, and create a hunting season on them. 
We need to be involved, and part of that is educating other hunters on this very forum, this forum has generated a lot of letters to our representatives. 

[Branden]

Last time I hunted the blues I hunted them about 3 weeks straight. Also had a few trail cams up for most of the summer and didn’t check them until the hunt.

I saw 3 cougars, 1 bobcat, 4 bears, a couple coyotes, and no wolves. On the trail cams there were a couple bears, and every cam had at least one cougar. No wolves though.

I did see at least 3 different sets of wolf tracks, and a couple sets of cougar tracks.

To think the decline is because of the wolves and not all the predators combined is ignoring the facts. Also how many states have Washington’s human population and unlimited deer and elk tags? Also doe tags, 2nd deer tags, etc. None of that is helping the herds.

Also it’s extremely hard to compare Idaho and Washington since Idaho allowed hounds and bait to control bears and cats. So when wolves were introduced there the wolves didn’t have as much competition as they do in Washington where the predators aren’t managed the same. I believe the wolves would have a much larger impact on the herds in Idaho then they do in Washington just from having more competition in Washington.

[jackelope]

I had 5 different lions on the same camera in SE WA 5 years ago. No wolves on any of the cameras I had out over the course of 3 years. The cameras never moved. They were reported to be in the area, and I believe a HuntWA member killed a big bull down there with a little assist from the wolves, but I never got one on camera.

[jasnt]

We could most certainly kill more cougar than the quotas allow by targeting them starting in September. Quotas only close gmu’s after Jan 1st

[KFhunter]

Last time I hunted the blues I hunted them about 3 weeks straight. Also had a few trail cams up for most of the summer and didn’t check them until the hunt.

I saw 3 cougars, 1 bobcat, 4 bears, a couple coyotes, and no wolves. On the trail cams there were a couple bears, and every cam had at least one cougar. No wolves though.

I did see at least 3 different sets of wolf tracks, and a couple sets of cougar tracks.

To think the decline is because of the wolves and not all the predators combined is ignoring the facts. Also how many states have Washington’s human population and unlimited deer and elk tags? Also doe tags, 2nd deer tags, etc. None of that is helping the herds.

Also it’s extremely hard to compare Idaho and Washington since Idaho allowed hounds and bait to control bears and cats. So when wolves were introduced there the wolves didn’t have as much competition as they do in Washington where the predators aren’t managed the same. I believe the wolves would have a much larger impact on the herds in Idaho then they do in Washington just from having more competition in Washington.

To be fair this is the wolf section of the forum 

but yes, all the predators need to be knocked back and wolves need managed.

[pianoman9701]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

You guys are so smart..   First off, with all the wolf hating windbags on the internet why has Idaho never filled their wolf harvest quota? Typing is easier than leaving the comfort of your home and truck?

Now for a history lesson.. Prior to the late 90s in Idaho the Lion harvest was on average 800 to 900 cats per year. After 1998 the average has been 400 to 500 cats per year. During the post 1998 era they added 1000 wolves roughly. Now, how many cats were added in that 20 years of reduced lion harvest, on average of 400 per year? (1998 to 2018)

Simplistic explanations of complex population dynamics come from simple minds.. Do wolves reduce dear & elk populations, yes. Are they the largest contributor to the problem in Washington.. not even close. In Idaho, more so but still not the major cause of the decline.
Now grab your red capes and baskets and head over to grandma's house... it will be ok.. I promise!!!! 

From your statement then the lack of harvest of all predators has contributed to the decline. As such they all need more management.

As usual us sportsmen are arguing the details and ignoring the broad facts.
The issue needs to be how do we in crease harvest of all predators in the areas most effected.?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Thank God someone sees it. The overall problem is really obvious to me. It's not JUST wolves.  If you think it is, you've got blinders on.

JM, I don't think you've been following the discussion closely. I personally haven't said it's just wolves, but I have said we already had a predator problem in WA because of the anti-hounds and baiting initiative passed in '96. In light of the fact that we'd already lost control of predator populations, can you really say that it was responsible to add another one that'll likely never be hunted in this state, at least until it's way too late? Cougertail is a record stuck on "it's cougars, it's cougars, it's cougars!!!" It's all of 'em and introducing wolves on top was idiotic. We should probably add grizzlies before we know the complete impact of the wolf introduction and then consider tigers and/or velociraptors. Our WDFW is completely blind to the predator problem we have and keeps throwing more fuel on the fire.

[trophyhunt]

Last time I hunted the blues I hunted them about 3 weeks straight. Also had a few trail cams up for most of the summer and didn’t check them until the hunt.

I saw 3 cougars, 1 bobcat, 4 bears, a couple coyotes, and no wolves. On the trail cams there were a couple bears, and every cam had at least one cougar. No wolves though.

I did see at least 3 different sets of wolf tracks, and a couple sets of cougar tracks.

To think the decline is because of the wolves and not all the predators combined is ignoring the facts. Also how many states have Washington’s human population and unlimited deer and elk tags? Also doe tags, 2nd deer tags, etc. None of that is helping the herds.

Also it’s extremely hard to compare Idaho and Washington since Idaho allowed hounds and bait to control bears and cats. So when wolves were introduced there the wolves didn’t have as much competition as they do in Washington where the predators aren’t managed the same. I believe the wolves would have a much larger impact on the herds in Idaho then they do in Washington just from having more competition in Washington.

To be fair this is the wolf section of the forum 

but yes, all the predators need to be knocked back and wolves need managed.

I don’t think anyone on here thinks wolves are the only problem, but they are a new problem we’ve never had before.

[Cougartail]

Hey...Pianoman!, It's cougars!

If you look back I said that 200 wolves weren't going to tube Elk and deer populations in the state. No trapping, no baiting no dogs and piss poor management will.

The broken record was wolves, wolves, wolves.. While most were done with going to the hills I would be just starting with coyote hunting and trapping. I watched elk and deer numbers plummet after dogs and baiting were outlawed.. along with an increase of cougar tracks.
Never saw a wolf track in my area and still haven't.