2019 spring bear?

[idahohuntr]

There are orders of magnitude more bears in the blues than cats and wolves...not even close.  Every unit should be otc in the spring.

[Machias]

A little history for some of you guys about the NE and when the season opens.  Many years ago the season opened on 1 Aug.  Used to be one of my favorite hunts of the year.  You would almost always get a little cool down in Aug.  I would run up there and hunt the Selkirks.  Went to a Fish and Game meeting one year and they said they were going to move the opener to the day after Labor Day to avoid conflicts with berry pickers.  The room just about erupted.  So they cleared their throat and said well really it's because too many sows with cubs are being killed in Aug and the cubs were bigger by the day after Labor Day.  Total and complete BS.  I went to the next 3 year meeting and asked how moving the opener back had affected the number of sows with cubs being harvested and they had no clue what I was talking about.  I guess they had forgotten the BS lie they had told 3 years earlier.  Absolutely no reason to move the opener back in the NE to after Labor Day.  That was the beginning of the end of my respect for the WDFW.  The final straw came with the outlawing coyote hunting with dogs, purely for political reasons and not game management reasons.

[KFhunter]

Well said  100%   

[elkrack]

I can’t stand the pro predator agenda at the wdfw!

[hunter399]

A little history for some of you guys about the NE and when the season opens.  Many years ago the season opened on 1 Aug.  Used to be one of my favorite hunts of the year.  You would almost always get a little cool down in Aug.  I would run up there and hunt the Selkirks.  Went to a Fish and Game meeting one year and they said they were going to move the opener to the day after Labor Day to avoid conflicts with berry pickers.  The room just about erupted.  So they cleared their throat and said well really it's because too many sows with cubs are being killed in Aug and the cubs were bigger by the day after Labor Day.  Total and complete BS.  I went to the next 3 year meeting and asked how moving the opener back had affected the number of sows with cubs being harvested and they had no clue what I was talking about.  I guess they had forgotten the BS lie they had told 3 years earlier.  Absolutely no reason to move the opener back in the NE to after Labor Day.  That was the beginning of the end of my respect for the WDFW.  The final straw came with the outlawing coyote hunting with dogs, purely for political reasons and not game management reasons.

I agree with ya on this first bear I ever shot was in mid August many years ago.
I figured it was a enforcement deal also not enough game wardens to go around between fishing and hunting.

[KFhunter]

Enforcement convenience shouldn't dictate hunting rules and regulations. 

[hunter399]

Enforcement convenience shouldn't dictate hunting rules and regulations. 

I agree ,but sadly I think it does effect a lot of season dates.There just not gonna come out of the closest and tell ya.

[bornhunter]

 

A little history for some of you guys about the NE and when the season opens.  Many years ago the season opened on 1 Aug.  Used to be one of my favorite hunts of the year.  You would almost always get a little cool down in Aug.  I would run up there and hunt the Selkirks.  Went to a Fish and Game meeting one year and they said they were going to move the opener to the day after Labor Day to avoid conflicts with berry pickers.  The room just about erupted.  So they cleared their throat and said well really it's because too many sows with cubs are being killed in Aug and the cubs were bigger by the day after Labor Day.  Total and complete BS.  I went to the next 3 year meeting and asked how moving the opener back had affected the number of sows with cubs being harvested and they had no clue what I was talking about.  I guess they had forgotten the BS lie they had told 3 years earlier.  Absolutely no reason to move the opener back in the NE to after Labor Day.  That was the beginning of the end of my respect for the WDFW.  The final straw came with the outlawing coyote hunting with dogs, purely for political reasons and not game management reasons.

[idahohuntr]

Enforcement convenience shouldn't dictate hunting rules and regulations.

Way too many regs in WA that take away from law abiding sportsman under the fallacy that such laws will enable them to catch poachers. If WDFW could ever get a director worth a darn he'd fire the clowns that request these kinds of laws and rule changes.

[SilkOnTheDrySide]

I’ve been doing quite a bit of research lately concerning spring bears, predation, etc.  I’ve read research articles, and spoken to biologists, and come to some interesting conclusions.

Black bear spring calf predation can be significant in areas where other food sources are limited.  Bears are omnivorous, and as such, will take the easiest available option.  While speaking to a biologist from Washington State, it was his opinion that the ungulate problem in SE WA in particular stems from a significantly higher density of cougars then anywhere else in the state.

Cougars have been estimated to kill .8 ungulates a week (or just over 41 a year).

In an additional study in the UP of Michigan, coyotes were far and away the leading predators of whitetail fawns.  In fact bobcats were documented as the second leading factor of fawn mortality in that region, with wolves and bears being way down the list (much to the chagrin of locals who wanted to blame the wolves).

To showcase an instance where bears have caused significant issues, in a New Mexico study of tagged calves, each spring bear killed increased the likelihood of a calf surviving its first 90 days by 2.3%.

So what this all boils down to is, it’s complicated.

As indicated to me by the biologist, Sportsman in Washington are not organized.  We are broken down into competing groups that bicker for increased rights for their subgroup instead of banding together.

We also have a tendency to form opinions based on limited facts or driven by emotions.  If studies or data does not fit our preconceived notion, we have a tendency to fall into a condition of bias.  I was victim of this when I started researching data. 

We also have to accept the fact that we live in a liberal state, where legislatively, we can lose at any given point in time. 

I have adjusted my position, in that I think a discussion of expanding spring tags, and opening additional units (including partial or full OTC) would be a worthwhile discussion to have using fact based regional data.


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[idahohuntr]

I’ve been doing quite a bit of research lately concerning spring bears, predation, etc.  I’ve read research articles, and spoken to biologists, and come to some interesting conclusions.

Black bear spring calf predation can be significant in areas where other food sources are limited.  Bears are omnivorous, and as such, will take the easiest available option.  While speaking to a biologist from Washington State, it was his opinion that the ungulate problem in SE WA in particular stems from a significantly higher density of cougars then anywhere else in the state.

Cougars have been estimated to kill .8 ungulates a week (or just over 41 a year).

In an additional study in the UP of Michigan, coyotes were far and away the leading predators of whitetail fawns.  In fact bobcats were documented as the second leading factor of fawn mortality in that region, with wolves and bears being way down the list (much to the chagrin of locals who wanted to blame the wolves).

To showcase an instance where bears have caused significant issues, in a New Mexico study of tagged calves, each spring bear killed increased the likelihood of a calf surviving its first 90 days by 2.3%.

So what this all boils down to is, it’s complicated.

As indicated to me by the biologist, Sportsman in Washington are not organized.  We are broken down into competing groups that bicker for increased rights for their subgroup instead of banding together.

We also have a tendency to form opinions based on limited facts or driven by emotions.  If studies or data does not fit our preconceived notion, we have a tendency to fall into a condition of bias.  I was victim of this when I started researching data. 

We also have to accept the fact that we live in a liberal state, where legislatively, we can lose at any given point in time. 

I have adjusted my position, in that I think a discussion of expanding spring tags, and opening additional units (including partial or full OTC) would be a worthwhile discussion to have using fact based regional data.


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Excellent post.  In your research did you identify any conservation concerns with spring bear hunts?  I don't understand the biological basis (if there is one) for having a fall general season that last several months, but not having a spring general season.  Given the lack of baiting and the insane number of bears in parts of WA - I can't imagine there is a conservation concern with a spring hunt...but maybe there is?

100% agree that most predator management discussions, by hunters or anti-hunters, are emotional and uninformed by facts.

[SilkOnTheDrySide]

Conservation concerns? Can you elaborate a little on exactly what you’re asking?

I know that Washington state issues tags and permits based on harvest data.  So if they are not getting the appropriate harvest statistics, they will issue more tags.

The one issue I could foresee is that bears typically mate in June-ish, so there may be a desire to limit hunting in June and July in order to allow them to pair up.  But how that actually affects bear populations was not a focal point of my research.

It should also be noted, though only applicable in the NE, that Grizzly bears are freaking ungulate killers.

An additional stat I didn’t include in my previous post that I thought was fascinating...one large adult male cougar was identified to have killed 18 adult moose in a one year period.


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[KFhunter]

The fall hunt success rate is below 10% in all sections of the state,  the spring success rate is 28% in all sections on average.

The best way to lower bear numbers is that spring hunt, if bear fall below management objectives in certain units then bring back the spring special hunt draw.   
 

[idahohuntr]

Conservation concerns? Can you elaborate a little on exactly what you’re asking?

I know that Washington state issues tags and permits based on harvest data.  So if they are not getting the appropriate harvest statistics, they will issue more tags.

The one issue I could foresee is that bears typically mate in June-ish, so there may be a desire to limit hunting in June and July in order to allow them to pair up.  But how that actually affects bear populations was not a focal point of my research.

It should also be noted, though only applicable in the NE, that Grizzly bears are freaking ungulate killers.

An additional stat I didn’t include in my previous post that I thought was fascinating...one large adult male cougar was identified to have killed 18 adult moose in a one year period.


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What I meant was -  does spring hunting increase the risk of bear populations plummeting to levels they are no longer at healthy population numbers?  KF shows that harvest rates are approximately triple what fall rates are...so maybe in WDFW's mind that puts the population at too great a risk of extinction? Or perhaps there is evidence that indirect effects of hunting (e.g., disrupting mating) causes greater effects than just harvest alone??

if bear fall below management objectives in certain units then bring back the spring special hunt draw.   

Given the numbers of bear we have in many areas this seems like a very reasonable idea that provides opportunity without putting bears at too much risk. 

[SilkOnTheDrySide]

Conservation concerns? Can you elaborate a little on exactly what you’re asking?

I know that Washington state issues tags and permits based on harvest data.  So if they are not getting the appropriate harvest statistics, they will issue more tags.

The one issue I could foresee is that bears typically mate in June-ish, so there may be a desire to limit hunting in June and July in order to allow them to pair up.  But how that actually affects bear populations was not a focal point of my research.

It should also be noted, though only applicable in the NE, that Grizzly bears are freaking ungulate killers.

An additional stat I didn’t include in my previous post that I thought was fascinating...one large adult male cougar was identified to have killed 18 adult moose in a one year period.


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What I meant was -  does spring hunting increase the risk of bear populations plummeting to levels they are no longer at healthy population numbers?  KF shows that harvest rates are approximately triple what fall rates are...so maybe in WDFW's mind that puts the population at too great a risk of extinction? Or perhaps there is evidence that indirect effects of hunting (e.g., disrupting mating) causes greater effects than just harvest alone??

if bear fall below management objectives in certain units then bring back the spring special hunt draw.   

Given the numbers of bear we have in many areas this seems like a very reasonable idea that provides opportunity without putting bears at too much risk.

I didn’t research into that discussion. 

I can tell you this, I don’t know how many people are targeting bears in the fall (I do), but I seem to find significantly more opportunity to kill in the spring then the fall.

I’d be curious to know how many bears are killed as an opportunity kill in the fall, (meaning stumbled upon while doing something else).

As opposed to people targeting them during the spring.


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