Now that it snowed they need to lock up Watt Canyon

[kirkl]

So we aren’t closing the gate because we need to get the slaves out first.....  still trying to wrap my head around this without reading 10 pages of O mah talk to himself.

  that was good. 

[pawpaw1934]

They must be out of locks at the local hardware stores...otherwise someone that cares about the game would just go buy one and solve the problem....if not at least for a short time.

[NOCK NOCK]

They must be out of locks at the local hardware stores...otherwise someone that cares about the game would just go buy one and solve the problem....if not at least for a short time.

FWIW, gates are usually locked open too.

[dvolmer]

Sadly to say, closing the gate will do no good.  A few years back out here at Hanford where I work, some native hunters trespassed on what I think was Roberts Ranch (now Blackrock) at the time (might have been one of the Silver Dollar Ranches) and drove through their land (private and heavily posted) until they came to the fence of the Hanford Site and then cut or ran over the Hanford fence and killed some elk.  Hanford Patrol was out with their machine guns.  They were caught at the time and the WDFW and the USFW tried to throw the book at them.  It went to court and was thrown out by the liberal west side judge.  It was after this and a few other incidents where WDFW tried to prosecute what they determined as illegal native hunting and it was again thrown out by the liberal judges that the WDFW decided to not even attempt to prosecute illegal native hunting.  The reason for this was that their budget was being consumed in legal fees and every time it went to court they lost due to reasons I have mentioned in earlier posts on this thread.  One of my hunting partners that works for WDFW as a biologist told me that they and enforcement have been counseled to leave the natives alone and to turn their back on whatever they are doing because they are literally untouchable by the law and the justice system in Washington State.  Remember folks, when you challenge them in court, you are paying double because it is your tax money that is paying for their lawyers and its your Fish and Wildlife money that is paying for WDFW's lawyers.

You could lock the gates all you want and they can cut the locks off of the gates all they want and nothing will be done legally to them.  You could have a girl scout troop on a trailer at Joe Watt feeding the elk in the middle of the winter and the natives can come out and drive their truck into the middle of the feeding herd and shoot as many elk as they want and their is nothing that WDFW can do.  Their hands are tied!

After the court battles of the last 20 or so years and their outcomes, the native hunters feel they are untouchable.  They could care less what we think or say and look at these posts and laugh to themselves.  I could go on and on with stories that my hunting partner has told me that would shock you all to death but I can't due to him getting into a lot of trouble from the "Brass" of WDFW.  Not only is WDFW telling their employees to turn their backs on what is going on but they are being told by the higher-ups to not make any negative comments to the public on the situation because they think it will just cause hate and discontent.  We are in a bad place here with this and its only going to get worse as trophy antlers increase in monetary value and the business side of selling the meat (especially elk meat) increases.  25 years ago when a 6x6 bull antlers weren't worth much and you hung them on the barn wall and wild game was plentiful and not in demand, the natives hunted to just feed the family and for some religious reasons.  That has all changed as the trophy hunting has exploded and the price of a mature bull elk set of anthers has reached over a thousand dollars plus in value and the demand for organic wild game meat has went through the roof now that everyone has jumped on the healthy food bandwagon.  Remember, when a NY City guy wants to buy some jerky and he finds an opportunity buy some free ranging, non-steroid, organic, low cholesterol, wild game meat that was killed and processed by a real Native American Indian, he will pay three times the price than the Oh-Boy-Oberta jerky next to it and will go home feeling good about himself because he helped support some poor abused Native American that has been on hard times!  This he knows to be true because his liberal college professor told him so!!!

[2MANY]

I'm an Indian outlaw
Half Cherokee and Choctaw
My baby she's a Chippewa
She's one of a kind
All my friends call me Bear Claw
The Village Cheaftin' is my paw-paw
He gets his orders from my maw-maw
She makes him walk the line
You can find me in my wigwam
I'll be beatin' on my tom-tom
Pull out the pipe and smoke you some
Hey and pass it around
'Cause I'm an Indian outlaw
Half Cherokee and Choctaw
My baby she's a Chippewa
She's one of a kind
I ain't lookin' for trouble
We can ride my pony double
Make your little heart bubble
Lord like a glass of wine
I remember the medicine man
He caught runnin' water in my hands
Drug me around by my headband
Said I wasn't her kind
'Cause I'm an Indian outlaw
Half Cherokee and Choctaw
My baby she's a Chippewa
She's one of a kind
I can kill a deer or buffalo
With just my arrow and my hickory bow
From a hundred yards don't you know
I do it all the time
They all gather 'round my teepee
Late at night tryin' to catch a peek at me
In nothin' but my buffalo briefs
I got 'em standin' in line
'Cause I'm an Indian outlaw
Half Cherokee and Choctaw
My baby she's a Chippewa
She's one of a kind
Cherokee people
Cherokee tribe
So proud to live
So proud to die

LOCK THE GATE.

[hunter399]

MAKE ELK HUNTING GREAT AGAIN
LOCK THE GATE.

[pianoman9701]

This thread is doing nothing but splitting this forum in two and I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of our Native members are feeling maligned. I'm out. This is going nowhere. Have a nice day all.

[HillHound]

Yep just like all these threads. Going nowhere. Lock the gate and lock the thread!

[MADMAX]

 

[idahohuntr]

Sadly to say, closing the gate will do no good.  A few years back out here at Hanford where I work, some native hunters trespassed on what I think was Roberts Ranch (now Blackrock) at the time (might have been one of the Silver Dollar Ranches) and drove through their land (private and heavily posted) until they came to the fence of the Hanford Site and then cut or ran over the Hanford fence and killed some elk.  Hanford Patrol was out with their machine guns.  They were caught at the time and the WDFW and the USFW tried to throw the book at them.  It went to court and was thrown out by the liberal west side judge.  It was after this and a few other incidents where WDFW tried to prosecute what they determined as illegal native hunting and it was again thrown out by the liberal judges that the WDFW decided to not even attempt to prosecute illegal native hunting.  The reason for this was that their budget was being consumed in legal fees and every time it went to court they lost due to reasons I have mentioned in earlier posts on this thread.  One of my hunting partners that works for WDFW as a biologist told me that they and enforcement have been counseled to leave the natives alone and to turn their back on whatever they are doing because they are literally untouchable by the law and the justice system in Washington State.  Remember folks, when you challenge them in court, you are paying double because it is your tax money that is paying for their lawyers and its your Fish and Wildlife money that is paying for WDFW's lawyers.

If a land management agency decided to close motor vehicle access to an area, in a non-discriminatory, non-punitive manner, I do not see any Tribe having the ability to make a legal case requiring they be given motorized access.  In the exact case you mention, the Tribal member was successfully prosecuted for off road vehicle violations. So, its not accurate to describe them as untouchable and they can cut locks off gates etc.  Land management agencies could absolutely close vehicle access - but Tribal members would still almost certainly be assured access to the public lands to hunt...just not by vehicle.

The DoJ declined to pursue charges related to hunting/killing elk on the Hanford Reserve area because they were not confident they could successfully argue those lands as not being "open and unclaimed" - and the ultimately determined not charging was a better course of action than charging and losing in court. 

I agree with WDFW not engaging on Tribal treaty fishing/hunting enforcement issues...not because Tribes are "untouchable", but I have no confidence in WDFW and their law enforcement folks who I am convinced are not nearly savvy enough to be playing in that arena. 

[dvolmer]

This thread is doing nothing but splitting this forum in two and I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of our Native members are feeling maligned. I'm out. This is going nowhere. Have a nice day all.

NOT!  They don't feel maligned.  They are to busy elk hunting to care! 

Ok, that is probably over the line.  I am sure that the tribes have plenty of guys and gals that want to do what is right.  But even so, they don't want as a group to put any guidelines or reasonable limits that would stop any of their over the top behavior.

[logger]

Sadly to say, closing the gate will do no good.  A few years back out here at Hanford where I work, some native hunters trespassed on what I think was Roberts Ranch (now Blackrock) at the time (might have been one of the Silver Dollar Ranches) and drove through their land (private and heavily posted) until they came to the fence of the Hanford Site and then cut or ran over the Hanford fence and killed some elk.  Hanford Patrol was out with their machine guns.  They were caught at the time and the WDFW and the USFW tried to throw the book at them.  It went to court and was thrown out by the liberal west side judge.  It was after this and a few other incidents where WDFW tried to prosecute what they determined as illegal native hunting and it was again thrown out by the liberal judges that the WDFW decided to not even attempt to prosecute illegal native hunting.  The reason for this was that their budget was being consumed in legal fees and every time it went to court they lost due to reasons I have mentioned in earlier posts on this thread.  One of my hunting partners that works for WDFW as a biologist told me that they and enforcement have been counseled to leave the natives alone and to turn their back on whatever they are doing because they are literally untouchable by the law and the justice system in Washington State.  Remember folks, when you challenge them in court, you are paying double because it is your tax money that is paying for their lawyers and its your Fish and Wildlife money that is paying for WDFW's lawyers.

If a land management agency decided to close motor vehicle access to an area, in a non-discriminatory, non-punitive manner, I do not see any Tribe having the ability to make a legal case requiring they be given motorized access.  In the exact case you mention, the Tribal member was successfully prosecuted for off road vehicle violations. So, its not accurate to describe them as untouchable and they can cut locks off gates etc.  Land management agencies could absolutely close vehicle access - but Tribal members would still almost certainly be assured access to the public lands to hunt...just not by vehicle.

The DoJ declined to pursue charges related to hunting/killing elk on the Hanford Reserve area because they were not confident they could successfully argue those lands as not being "open and unclaimed" - and the ultimately determined not charging was a better course of action than charging and losing in court. 

I agree with WDFW not engaging on Tribal treaty fishing/hunting enforcement issues...not because Tribes are "untouchable", but I have no confidence in WDFW and their law enforcement folks who I am convinced are not nearly savvy enough to be playing in that arena.

   several tribes have keys, elbe hills is a game escapement area, however 6 tribes have keys to the gates

[idahohuntr]

Sadly to say, closing the gate will do no good.  A few years back out here at Hanford where I work, some native hunters trespassed on what I think was Roberts Ranch (now Blackrock) at the time (might have been one of the Silver Dollar Ranches) and drove through their land (private and heavily posted) until they came to the fence of the Hanford Site and then cut or ran over the Hanford fence and killed some elk.  Hanford Patrol was out with their machine guns.  They were caught at the time and the WDFW and the USFW tried to throw the book at them.  It went to court and was thrown out by the liberal west side judge.  It was after this and a few other incidents where WDFW tried to prosecute what they determined as illegal native hunting and it was again thrown out by the liberal judges that the WDFW decided to not even attempt to prosecute illegal native hunting.  The reason for this was that their budget was being consumed in legal fees and every time it went to court they lost due to reasons I have mentioned in earlier posts on this thread.  One of my hunting partners that works for WDFW as a biologist told me that they and enforcement have been counseled to leave the natives alone and to turn their back on whatever they are doing because they are literally untouchable by the law and the justice system in Washington State.  Remember folks, when you challenge them in court, you are paying double because it is your tax money that is paying for their lawyers and its your Fish and Wildlife money that is paying for WDFW's lawyers.

If a land management agency decided to close motor vehicle access to an area, in a non-discriminatory, non-punitive manner, I do not see any Tribe having the ability to make a legal case requiring they be given motorized access.  In the exact case you mention, the Tribal member was successfully prosecuted for off road vehicle violations. So, its not accurate to describe them as untouchable and they can cut locks off gates etc.  Land management agencies could absolutely close vehicle access - but Tribal members would still almost certainly be assured access to the public lands to hunt...just not by vehicle.

The DoJ declined to pursue charges related to hunting/killing elk on the Hanford Reserve area because they were not confident they could successfully argue those lands as not being "open and unclaimed" - and the ultimately determined not charging was a better course of action than charging and losing in court. 

I agree with WDFW not engaging on Tribal treaty fishing/hunting enforcement issues...not because Tribes are "untouchable", but I have no confidence in WDFW and their law enforcement folks who I am convinced are not nearly savvy enough to be playing in that arena.

   several tribes have keys, elbe hills is a game escapement area, however 6 tribes have keys to the gates

If they have keys then presumably they were given permission by the land manager.

[Oh Mah]

So we aren’t closing the gate because we need to get the slaves out first.....  still trying to wrap my head around this without reading 10 pages of O mah talk to himself.

you dont know what your talking about,again.i have been replied to by uneducated members on every post except of course the one where i asked for 10 pictures. have a nice day.

[logger]

Sadly to say, closing the gate will do no good.  A few years back out here at Hanford where I work, some native hunters trespassed on what I think was Roberts Ranch (now Blackrock) at the time (might have been one of the Silver Dollar Ranches) and drove through their land (private and heavily posted) until they came to the fence of the Hanford Site and then cut or ran over the Hanford fence and killed some elk.  Hanford Patrol was out with their machine guns.  They were caught at the time and the WDFW and the USFW tried to throw the book at them.  It went to court and was thrown out by the liberal west side judge.  It was after this and a few other incidents where WDFW tried to prosecute what they determined as illegal native hunting and it was again thrown out by the liberal judges that the WDFW decided to not even attempt to prosecute illegal native hunting.  The reason for this was that their budget was being consumed in legal fees and every time it went to court they lost due to reasons I have mentioned in earlier posts on this thread.  One of my hunting partners that works for WDFW as a biologist told me that they and enforcement have been counseled to leave the natives alone and to turn their back on whatever they are doing because they are literally untouchable by the law and the justice system in Washington State.  Remember folks, when you challenge them in court, you are paying double because it is your tax money that is paying for their lawyers and its your Fish and Wildlife money that is paying for WDFW's lawyers.

If a land management agency decided to close motor vehicle access to an area, in a non-discriminatory, non-punitive manner, I do not see any Tribe having the ability to make a legal case requiring they be given motorized access.  In the exact case you mention, the Tribal member was successfully prosecuted for off road vehicle violations. So, its not accurate to describe them as untouchable and they can cut locks off gates etc.  Land management agencies could absolutely close vehicle access - but Tribal members would still almost certainly be assured access to the public lands to hunt...just not by vehicle.

The DoJ declined to pursue charges related to hunting/killing elk on the Hanford Reserve area because they were not confident they could successfully argue those lands as not being "open and unclaimed" - and the ultimately determined not charging was a better course of action than charging and losing in court. 

I agree with WDFW not engaging on Tribal treaty fishing/hunting enforcement issues...not because Tribes are "untouchable", but I have no confidence in WDFW and their law enforcement folks who I am convinced are not nearly savvy enough to be playing in that arena.

   several tribes have keys, elbe hills is a game escapement area, however 6 tribes have keys to the gates

If they have keys then presumably they were given permission by the land manager. I would assume so as well