Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery

[Skyvalhunter]

I am ready for WY

[Karl Blanchard]

I think some of this is just human nature at work also. We tend to like to look for excuses for failure. "It can't be that I didn't hunt smart or hard enough! Its low numbers and dang wdfw and predators and and and and." 

I've said it countless times, these permit cut backs have been a knee jerk reaction by wdfw. This year will be no different. They will fly the sage country (winter range) looking to count elk but a good number of elk never came down and the ones that did have already started back up to their transitional zones aka timber. They will have low counts and in turn low permit numbers.

[duckmen1]

Karl your posts appear to be spot on as usual.

[jstone]

Just a question
What percentage do you think don’t come down for free food? How much snow does it take for them all to come down. If they all even do?
Just trying to learn

[grundy53]

Yet the higher weapon still gets a cow tag opportunity. Herds are in bad shape. Then why are they even giving any modern tags for cow.

If a herd is having trouble there shouldn't be any cow permits for rifle season.

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[WSU]

If those harvest stats a reflective the total archery harvest, it sure appears that archers killing cows is irrelevant to the population numbers.  Five cows cannot make any noticeable difference.

[Rainier10]

The depredation thing comes up often enough that I actually emailed the WDFW to ask about them.

Here are the numbers from 2018 for all of eastern washington and then specifically for the 300 GMUS, yakama and colockum.

In 2018, the Department issued 984 permits (DPPs and Kill Permits combined) to landowners in eastern Washington to address elk damage complaints with a reported harvest of 81 elk.  This is considered a minimum because of landowners that fail to report.

In 2018, the Department issued 656 permits (DPPs and Kill Permits combined) to landowners in 300 series GMUs with a reported harvest of 60 elk.    237 of the 656 permits were issued in GMU 372, which is associated with the Rattlesnake Hills sub-herd.  Also, 53 of the 60 elk harvested in the region 3 GMU's were reported as harvested in this GMU (372)

So almost 1,000 permits issued to make people feel better and only 81 elk taken with those permits across all of eastern Washington.

53 elk taken out of GMU 372 using "kill permits".  That means only 7 elk were taken in the yakama and colockum units with "kill permits".

I am not sure that is a significant amount of elk being taken out of those herds.  I do think that 53 in one GMU seems like alot but have never been to that unit.  Maybe there are a ton of elk there.

[Karl Blanchard]

The depredation thing comes up often enough that I actually emailed the WDFW to ask about them.

Here are the numbers from 2018 for all of eastern washington and then specifically for the 300 GMUS, yakama and colockum.

In 2018, the Department issued 984 permits (DPPs and Kill Permits combined) to landowners in eastern Washington to address elk damage complaints with a reported harvest of 81 elk.  This is considered a minimum because of landowners that fail to report.

In 2018, the Department issued 656 permits (DPPs and Kill Permits combined) to landowners in 300 series GMUs with a reported harvest of 60 elk.    237 of the 656 permits were issued in GMU 372, which is associated with the Rattlesnake Hills sub-herd.  Also, 53 of the 60 elk harvested in the region 3 GMU's were reported as harvested in this GMU (372)

So almost 1,000 permits issued to make people feel better and only 81 elk taken with those permits across all of eastern Washington.

53 elk taken out of GMU 372 using "kill permits".  That means only 7 elk were taken in the yakama and colockum units with "kill permits".

I am not sure that is a significant amount of elk being taken out of those herds.  I do think that 53 in one GMU seems like alot but have never been to that unit.  Maybe there are a ton of elk there.

those are some janky numbers. I know of more than 7 off of just one ranch 

[Karl Blanchard]

Ask them for 2016/17 numbers 

[Rainier10]

The depredation thing comes up often enough that I actually emailed the WDFW to ask about them.

Here are the numbers from 2018 for all of eastern washington and then specifically for the 300 GMUS, yakama and colockum.

In 2018, the Department issued 984 permits (DPPs and Kill Permits combined) to landowners in eastern Washington to address elk damage complaints with a reported harvest of 81 elk.  This is considered a minimum because of landowners that fail to report.

In 2018, the Department issued 656 permits (DPPs and Kill Permits combined) to landowners in 300 series GMUs with a reported harvest of 60 elk.    237 of the 656 permits were issued in GMU 372, which is associated with the Rattlesnake Hills sub-herd.  Also, 53 of the 60 elk harvested in the region 3 GMU's were reported as harvested in this GMU (372)

So almost 1,000 permits issued to make people feel better and only 81 elk taken with those permits across all of eastern Washington.

53 elk taken out of GMU 372 using "kill permits".  That means only 7 elk were taken in the yakama and colockum units with "kill permits".

I am not sure that is a significant amount of elk being taken out of those herds.  I do think that 53 in one GMU seems like alot but have never been to that unit.  Maybe there are a ton of elk there.

those are some janky numbers. I know of more than 7 off of just one ranch 

Were they actually depredation tags or were they masterhunter tags and special permits?

I questioned the high number of permits compared to actual reported harvest and was told that they follow on permits issued to make sure they get accurate counts of animals harvested.  Kill permits are not included in harvest data provided to the public because it would make an area look like a higher success rate when those permits aren't available to joe blow hunter.

Harvest numbers from kill permits are used when setting the next years seasons however.

[ThurstonCokid]

Or the big elephant in the room.......depredation permits. I'd be willing to bet more antlerless elk are killed on these than all otc and permit harvests combined....across all weapons.

This. I’ve herd of orchards taking 30 cows a year..


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[vandeman17]

not the yak or colockum herd but I know of plenty of elk that get taken on damage permits each year around malaga

[ThurstonCokid]

Hopefully everything stays the same.. one change will lead to hunters switching units and west vs East and it’ll get worse


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[W_Ellison2011]

So... here is my thought on this. I agree with making it a draw for 3-5 years for archery to hunt cow elk in those units. I feel like the modern antler-less permits numbers should be lowered as well. That being said.. I also feel that the bull tags need to be lowered. Reason I'm saying this.. a cow elk gives birth to 1-2 calves a year, mainly 1. A mature bull elk can service/breed 20-40 cow elk. So actually having more mature/breeding age bulls is going to help a lot. I'm not saying, hey lets just kill spikes and cow elk.. but I'm saying that the math shows that a single bull can create more life in a single breeding season than a single cow by a LARGE margin. I hate to bring this other subject up now too... but some serious predator control in those units would be VERY helpful for the deer and the elk. I mean we have more predators in the woods now than we have in a LONG time and its definitely part of the negative impact that we see on the herds. IMO those units need more people hunting bears and cougars. Not to get this argument going either.. but we need to push to open hunting of the wolves in some way, shape, or form.

[Rainier10]

I am fine with archery cows by permit only for the last year of this cycle. I think you will see the population boom in the next year. Then open it back up if numbers are good but don’t increase permits by a ton and hammer the numbers down again.