Quality elk tag numbers

[ballpark]

Before long it will be a complete draw just to hunt general season.

The writing is on the wall.  Habitat, access and total # harvested by all needs to be addressed.  Stop depredation killings 1st.  If I care to give them a break, maybe they are some how figuring other harvest's into the computation and not telling us - don't shoot me 

[Stein]

I think WDFW should consider giving impacted landowners tags they can sell (maybe the do?).  If a farmer or rancher can sell 5 tags for $3k each (just a guess), it would lessen the impact and maybe allow for larger herds.

[WSU]

That system is ripe for abuse.  Plus, I view our wildlife as public property and not property to be auctioned off by private individuals.  If landowners want to recoup money, they can always charge for access. 

[idahohuntr]

A lot of members are complaining about special permit reductions this year compared to last year (and they should).  But if you want to get really sick and mad just find a copy of a 10 year old regulations and compare the reduction in the last 10 years and not just the last one!  It will make you mad and then make you sick and want to hurl!  They are slowly destroying Washington state big game hunting.  I'm no expert but I believe that in the last 10 years we haven't had a huge surge in the number of hunters.  What we have had is some terrible game management, huge increases in uncontrolled native trophy and retail meat hunting, uncontrolled wolf introduction, non-baiting bear hunting restrictions, no hound hunting for cats and bears, and a liberal government who has spent the income and resources of the sportsmen/women in this state on other social programs.  the honest law abiding sportsman who is out buying a license every year and trying to keep the rules the best they can have been totally hosed!  All they have done is paid a ton of money to a system that is in failure mode and gives all of its assets to non-paying and non-revenue producing special interest groups.  The Average Washington State sportsman/woman has been nothing more than robbed of their resource!

I can't speak for all of the hunting special permit categories but I have been putting in for over 35 years and I have seen the following.  In my quality elk choices I have seen the permits go from 17 to 3 and from 20 to 2.  In my antlerless elk choices I have seen it go from 300 to 10 and from 60 to zero.  In my bull elk choices it has went from 78 to 14. All of these are in Eastern Washington but not all in one area.  Both the Blues and the Yakima areas are where I apply and have applied in the past. I know that this is the case for the majority of the special permits in our state.  We are screwed for sure!  Id like to be optimistic but I truly do not see an answer for this.  Could this be fixed? YES!  Will it be fixed? NO!!!!  It really really wont, and that makes me sad.  Some of you will say I,m a dooms-day'r, but you all just wait another 10 years and then compare the allocations and you will see that I was unfortunately right!  The system is slowly eating the goose that lays their golden eggs!

WDFW and their biologist are a joke. They don't have a clue where to even go look for bulls to get their counts even close to being correct. They spend most of their time flying around the herds counting calves, cow and bulls. 99.9% of the bulls are in small bachelor groups higher then the herds in the spring and winter. By the time they get motivated and out flying around the bulls are all bedded down in the timber. HELL, last week they were out all night till daylight running around in the Taneum on sleds counting Owls, if they would get this motivated on our Elk herds they might actually realize our bull numbers are doing fine/great depending on the unit. I have even seen them several times out flying and counting bulls in April

Get out of your office and out from behind your desk and go get real life data. Twenty years ago you would see the biologist in the hills all winter/spring doing their job. Now they just sit behind their desks and push numbers around, unless they are counting Owls.

I don't agree with your criticism of WDFW in this case.  I think, in general, the tag cuts are appropriate given the decline in numbers.  I'm mostly familiar with the Blues - and there are definitely less elk than several years ago.  Its not a matter of missing them or not counting them at the right time.  I wish tag numbers were higher, but given the shape the elk are in, I'm glad they have cut tags.

[Stein]

That system is ripe for abuse.  Plus, I view our wildlife as public property and not property to be auctioned off by private individuals.  If landowners want to recoup money, they can always charge for access. 

Many places you can't get a branch antler tag easily or in your lifetime.

There isn't going to be a perfect solution, but we know where the "do nothing" road leads.  We already auction off tags in pretty much every state.  It's somewhat of a plug your nose thing, but the results are hard to argue with - tons of money that goes into conservation.

[idahohuntr]

I think WDFW should consider giving impacted landowners tags they can sell (maybe the do?).  If a farmer or rancher can sell 5 tags for $3k each (just a guess), it would lessen the impact and maybe allow for larger herds.

That system is ripe for abuse.  Plus, I view our wildlife as public property and not property to be auctioned off by private individuals.  If landowners want to recoup money, they can always charge for access. 

Many places you can't get a branch antler tag easily or in your lifetime.

There isn't going to be a perfect solution, but we know where the "do nothing" road leads.  We already auction off tags in pretty much every state.  It's somewhat of a plug your nose thing, but the results are hard to argue with - tons of money that goes into conservation.

I also don't like the auction idea - and would contend the results are easy to argue with   

I find it illogical to suggest that average sportsman get any benefit (and more likely detriment) from WDFW auctioning elk tags.  $400ish million dollar budgets and the $50k does what for us??  And the only way to get $50k for that auction tag is to make sure there are units that strictly limit harvest by the general public...so less opportunity for most and .0001% increase in budgets to an agency that spends $800k on wolf facilitators...no thanks. 

[Stein]

It's $50,000.  That's a bunch of money and part of a solution.  I think the auction tag money goes directly into that species for most states.  A couple hundred thousand a year can really do some good when it is targeted and available every year no matter what the game budgets do.

I'm not a huge fan, but if it is very limited and doesn't creep and turn into a pay to play system, it's better than many other alternatives.

I suggest we to compare it to something else that has the same impact as opposed to comparing it to doing nothing as that is a horrible idea and shouldn't be considered.

[Bigshooter]

It's $50,000.  That's a bunch of money and part of a solution.  I think the auction tag money goes directly into that species for most states.  A couple hundred thousand a year can really do some good when it is targeted and available every year no matter what the game budgets do.

I'm not a huge fan, but if it is very limited and doesn't creep and turn into a pay to play system, it's better than many other alternatives.

I suggest we to compare it to something else that has the same impact as opposed to comparing it to doing nothing as that is a horrible idea and shouldn't be considered.

Solution?  What have you identified as the problem?  No compensation for landowners? 

[jdb]

Get rid of special tribal harvest. Treat everyone as equal.

not possible

[Stein]

It's $50,000.  That's a bunch of money and part of a solution.  I think the auction tag money goes directly into that species for most states.  A couple hundred thousand a year can really do some good when it is targeted and available every year no matter what the game budgets do.

I'm not a huge fan, but if it is very limited and doesn't creep and turn into a pay to play system, it's better than many other alternatives.

I suggest we to compare it to something else that has the same impact as opposed to comparing it to doing nothing as that is a horrible idea and shouldn't be considered.

Solution?  What have you identified as the problem?  No compensation for landowners?

The problem in this thread is low quality tag numbers.  One contributor is that some herds do damage to private land and are managed to lower numbers or even culled which results in smaller herds than could otherwise be present given the existing habitat.

[Bigshooter]

It's $50,000.  That's a bunch of money and part of a solution.  I think the auction tag money goes directly into that species for most states.  A couple hundred thousand a year can really do some good when it is targeted and available every year no matter what the game budgets do.

I'm not a huge fan, but if it is very limited and doesn't creep and turn into a pay to play system, it's better than many other alternatives.

I suggest we to compare it to something else that has the same impact as opposed to comparing it to doing nothing as that is a horrible idea and shouldn't be considered.

Solution?  What have you identified as the problem?  No compensation for landowners?

The problem in this thread is low quality tag numbers.  One contributor is that some herds do damage to private land and are managed to lower numbers or even culled which results in smaller herds than could otherwise be present given the existing habitat.

So the solution is allowing landowners to sell tags to kill elk on private property?  Or public property?  Then use that money to improve habitat?  Habitat that could already have more elk on it than it does right now?

[Stein]

OK, I give, let's go with your solution.

[ridgefire]

I think landowner tags are a joke and do more damage than good for the average hunter. If anything, compensate the ranchers for opening their properties for depredation hunts. Win for ranchers and sportsmen.

[180-GRAIN]

Before long it will be a complete draw just to hunt general season.

I really wish this was already in place.

[Bango skank]

I think landowner tags are a joke and do more damage than good for the average hunter. If anything, compensate the ranchers for opening their properties for depredation hunts. Win for ranchers and sportsmen.

A good idea in theory, but lots of room for abuse there too.  Like all the members of the public that get to do the depredation hunts being friends, extended families, other people the landowners know in a "you scratch my back ill scratch yours" kind of deal.  Hey, ill let you do this depredation hunt on my land for such and such in return...  then the general public gets no chance to do said depredation hunts, yet the landowner still gets critters killed, and is compensated by the state on top of it, and probably getting other little kickbacks from people doing the hunting.  Im just speculating though. Or maybe im just talking out of my ass.  But i could see it going more or less like i said.