22 points

[dilleytech]

Exactly my point. 

Huh? Basically I was drawn 3 times in 10 years and you think OIL would be better? Of course there were a lot more tags issued back then..

More tags and fewer applicants.  It's not of much value comparing 10 years ago with the next 10 years.  Many tag numbers are down 75-90% and applicants are up in just 4 years.  The unit I used to apply for went from 134 tags in 2016 to 10 last year - down 92.5%.  You now need 18 points for a 10% chance when only four years ago you had the same chance with 4 points.

Mathematically, quality elk tags are OIL.

True but I think having gotten 3 tags in my life is better then 1. And if I would have kept applying I most likely would have gotten more draws. 

[Oh Mah]

Exactly my point. 

Huh? Basically I was drawn 3 times in 10 years and you think OIL would be better? Of course there were a lot more tags issued back then..

More tags and fewer applicants.  It's not of much value comparing 10 years ago with the next 10 years.  Many tag numbers are down 75-90% and applicants are up in just 4 years.  The unit I used to apply for went from 134 tags in 2016 to 10 last year - down 92.5%.  You now need 18 points for a 10% chance when only four years ago you had the same chance with 4 points.

Mathematically, quality elk tags are OIL.

True but I think having gotten 3 tags in my life is better then 1. And if I would have kept applying I most likely would have gotten more draws.

Nothing from anybody huh?If i posted this exactly word for word i would have been attacked by several.But see nothing nothing from anyone who has been on here complaining daily about the draws and having 22 points and all that has a problem with the system enough to voice an opinion on this statement?  Maybe we should keep the system as it is,maybe some (a lot actually)will never draw and have 50 points    and this guy can still get a tag every other year or more. 

[Karl Blanchard]

Big difference in dilleytechs app strategy vs others though. I've known him for a long time and the archery tags he was drawing weren't that hard to get, especially back before the splitting of categories. I'd say most guys with max points or close to are guys going for top tier rifle tags and or have some ghost point apps in their history as well. I've also had 3 bull permits but I've also never missed an application season, never put in for points only, and I apply for higher odds units and weapons.

Tag numbers are a joke but overall the system is pretty fair. People just don't understand it, don't know how to navigate it, or refuse to adapt methods to increase drawing success

[Oh Mah]

oh i agree Karl.It just strikes the core of what is being discussed when someone shares the tags that they have drawn so many times and then there are those that do try to get tags in the easier to get areas but still can't seem to draw.I drew a cow this year.I don't really care if i ever get a bull but i will stick with what i have said.after a bull is tagged i think the hunter should be done with bull elk.even like you said Karl when we did have 300 500 tags given out people still were not able to draw while some others can every other year,Now i'm not whining about fair and anything like that we will just call it what it really is..........GREED.Gotta put another bull down.go out and hunt like others have too year in and year out for a spike.But this is just my opinion and it don't mean anything else. 

[blackveltbowhunter]

My opinion is that is dumb, unless drastic changes are made to herd management. OIL permits rarely go unfilled, are open during the most liberal time frames typically, and open to any weapon. Speaking to sheep and goats, management is very tight and odds of killing a very nice animal is very high. I cannot speak to moose, but the others that has been my experience.

Elk on the other hand, there are some good units and some not so good units based on trophy potential, weapon restrictions and season dates all become a factor.  There is no way I would ever expect someone who tags a bull in Toutle to have to forgo the opportunity to hunt the blues.

[dilleytech]

Big difference in fillets app strategy vs others though. I've known him for a long time and the archery tags he was drawing weren't that hard to get, especially back before the splitting of categories. I'd say most guys with max points or close to are guys going for top tier rifle tags and or have some ghost point apps in their history as well. I've also had 3 bull permits but I've also never missed an application season, never put in for points only, and I apply for higher odds units and weapons.

Tag numbers are a joke but overall the system is pretty fair. People just don't understand it, don't know how to navigate it, or refuse to adapt methods to increase drawing success

Well said. Tag numbers are a joke. But when the odds are what they are you either find some middle ground and give your self more opportunity or you put in for the hardest to get rifle tags and complain when you have 25 points 😏. Look at the odds of harvest. If you want your best odds first off don’t hunt rifle lol.

[Karl Blanchard]

Big difference in fillets app strategy vs others though. I've known him for a long time and the archery tags he was drawing weren't that hard to get, especially back before the splitting of categories. I'd say most guys with max points or close to are guys going for top tier rifle tags and or have some ghost point apps in their history as well. I've also had 3 bull permits but I've also never missed an application season, never put in for points only, and I apply for higher odds units and weapons.

Tag numbers are a joke but overall the system is pretty fair. People just don't understand it, don't know how to navigate it, or refuse to adapt methods to increase drawing success

Well said. Tag numbers are a joke. But when the odds are what they are you either find some middle ground and give your self more opportunity or you put in for the hardest to get rifle tags and complain when you have 25 points 😏. Look at the odds of harvest. If you want your best odds first off don’t hunt rifle lol.

exactly. Personal responsibility. I apply for 1 single quality deer unit every year. It's a hard draw and odds are low but it's the unit I want to draw and have accepted the fact that I may never draw it and die with 80 deer points. That's my personal choice. I could have been applying for lesser tags all these years and had a high likelyhood of drawing.

Obviously theres guys out there that just have bad luck but I'd bet there is a pattern among most max point deer and elk guys

[Twispriver]

I drew a bull tag the year before they split the categories so I didn't go into the quality draw with a points bank so I'm behind a lot of guys counting points. I'm pretty sure I would have a better chance at drawing if I at least picked a second choice but I only apply for the unit I normally hunt and with the weapons choice with the fewest permits. I'd rather not draw and hunt spikes with my group than burn my points on a permit in a unit I've never set foot in before. I understand and accept that I handicap my own odds and I don't complain when I don't draw. If/when I do pull the permit though I'll be applying the next year for sure.

[D-Rock425]

I drew a bull tag the year before they split the categories so I didn't go into the quality draw with a points bank so I'm behind a lot of guys counting points. I'm pretty sure I would have a better chance at drawing if I at least picked a second choice but I only apply for the unit I normally hunt and with the weapons choice with the fewest permits. I'd rather not draw and hunt spikes with my group than burn my points on a permit in a unit I've never set foot in before. I understand and accept that I handicap my own odds and I don't complain when I don't draw. If/when I do pull the permit though I'll be applying the next year for sure.

I drew deer and elk tags that year,

[Karl Blanchard]

I drew a bull tag the year before they split the categories so I didn't go into the quality draw with a points bank so I'm behind a lot of guys counting points. I'm pretty sure I would have a better chance at drawing if I at least picked a second choice but I only apply for the unit I normally hunt and with the weapons choice with the fewest permits. I'd rather not draw and hunt spikes with my group than burn my points on a permit in a unit I've never set foot in before. I understand and accept that I handicap my own odds and I don't complain when I don't draw. If/when I do pull the permit though I'll be applying the next year for sure.

I drew deer and elk tags that year,

I drew elk that year also. I've drawn twice since 

[D-Rock425]

I drew a bull tag the year before they split the categories so I didn't go into the quality draw with a points bank so I'm behind a lot of guys counting points. I'm pretty sure I would have a better chance at drawing if I at least picked a second choice but I only apply for the unit I normally hunt and with the weapons choice with the fewest permits. I'd rather not draw and hunt spikes with my group than burn my points on a permit in a unit I've never set foot in before. I understand and accept that I handicap my own odds and I don't complain when I don't draw. If/when I do pull the permit though I'll be applying the next year for sure.

I drew deer and elk tags that year,

I drew elk that year also. I've drawn twice since 

used all that luck on elk tags and never gonna draw your quality deer tag

[Karl Blanchard]

Don't remind me 

[GameHunter1959]

I don’t mind the Draw System. The issue is too many applicants and not enough Special Permits issued. The only way to change it; either issue more permits or once you draw a Quality Bull/Buck or Bull/Buck permit you can’t re-apply for 3-5 years. Some of those hunts should be “OIL” such as Dayton Quality Bull and Entiat Quality Deer. I’ve got 25+ years of applying and I’ve never drawn anything but...

Doe permits about every other year

2x Second Deer permits

4x Cow permits- been applying since the late 1980s. Never missed a year or put in for ghost points. Drew my 4th for this upcoming season.

1x Quality Bull permit in 2017

1x Any Deer permit 2007

I’m guessing most the Hunt Wa Forum has seen similar draw odds/success or lack there of. At this point I’ve accepted the way it is, and just apply each year and hope for the best.

[Onewhohikes]

You have to have the game if you are going to think or issue more special permits

[D-Rock425]

I think permit numbers will bounce back in a few years for most elk units.