Washington Mule Deer

[Skyvalhunter]

Yea probably a select few. The others shot the pregnant doe when they issued doe tags because of the fires

[Rainier10]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic.

I agree with this. there is no sense in giving out doe tags when the herd is hurting. Some hunters are so concerned about shooting something at the expense of future hunting.

 Remember discussing doe tags years ago on this site, and how people lost their freakin minds when members posted that their families purchased doe tags for years and burned them on purpose?

Exactly, people lost their minds when the predator lover bought the grizzly tag, I can't remember the state, and didn't use it.  The tags are there, use them or don't however you think the game should be managed.

[boneaddict]

Alot of cute little white tags got cut up at my house. lol

[bigmacc]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic.

I agree with this. there is no sense in giving out doe tags when the herd is hurting. Some hunters are so concerned about shooting something at the expense of future hunting.

 Remember discussing doe tags years ago on this site, and how people lost their freakin minds when members posted that their families purchased doe tags for years and burned them on purpose?

Yep, I can't tell you how many we burned over the years, probably approached a hundred between all of us , even had a Game department employee that we knew(who shall remain nameless ) tell us he agreed with us while he watched them go in the fire.

[huntnphool]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic.

I agree with this. there is no sense in giving out doe tags when the herd is hurting. Some hunters are so concerned about shooting something at the expense of future hunting.

 Remember discussing doe tags years ago on this site, and how people lost their freakin minds when members posted that their families purchased doe tags for years and burned them on purpose?

Yep, I can't tell you how many we burned over the years, probably approached a hundred between all of us , even had a Game department employee that we knew(who shall remain nameless ) tell us he agreed with us while he watched them go in the fire.

 The unfortunate side to this is WDFW soon assumed a percentage of these tags were indeed being burned. Which led to them allocating that same assumed percentage into the quota. What has happened since then is complete lack of faith in WDFW, and WDFW lack of respect for hunters. The result is many people reporting false info, which does neither side any good!

 I honestly don’t see a end to this issue. WDFW have proven to be a bunch of bean counting pencil pushers, out of touch with license holders. License holders see it as well, and are beginning to take all the issues into their own hands.

[sagemd]

I agree. Many hunters now see WDFW as adversarial, unwilling to listen to hunters and stand up to anti-hunters.
They seem to think hunters are not conservationists, and willing to pay for improvements in wildlife populations.
They are not proactive in public relations dealing with predators, trapping or anti-hunting issues.
Hunters are not being honest with reports anymore. And are loosing interest in dealing with WDFW.

[ian_padron]

Less opportunity is very seldom the right management decision. Can you fellas pushing for a statewide draw tag imagine what that would do to new hunter recruitment and retention?

I've cut my teeth learning how to hunt mule deer in WA since moving here in 2015, so no I don't have a giant sample size, but there is some outrageously good hunting to be had IF you're willing to put in the work. 10 day rifle high hunt, 10 day modern...that's 20 days of hunting mule deer with a rifle, all in the most scenic state in the West. Maybe I'm just too much of an optimist.

Already plenty of limitations with the point restrictions and selected date ranges for seasons.

Call me crazy, but there are remote pockets in this state with mature deer densities on par with the central Idaho units (43, 19, 36) that I've hunted, but with way less hunter pressure.

Are the herds in this state down historically? Of course they are. But let's keep pushing for better predator management and reduced antlerless tags instead of throwing away the few opportunities we have left.

The steelhead situation in this state is a great example of the fact that once the opportunities are gone, they very seldom come back.

Just my two cents.

[hunter399]

Are you guys talking about the................

Ten bad winters
Black/blue/red tounge
Alien Ticks that now kill deer but never have before
Maybe the Habitat Loss
Deer population has nothing to do With a buck, antlerless deer multiply on there on own.
Or only 5% of Washington residents buy a hunting liences
So poachers must of killed all the deer.


Or is it WDFW coming up with every excuse they can.
That doesn't include a predator.
 

I think we might be going on bad winter number 38 now
I'm not really sure at this point.

[sagerat]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic.

  I agree

[huntnphool]

Are you guys talking about the................

Ten bad winters
Black/blue/red tounge
Alien Ticks that now kill deer but never have before
Maybe the Habitat Loss
Deer population has nothing to do With a buck, antlerless deer multiply on there on own.
Or only 5% of Washington residents buy a hunting liences
So poachers must of killed all the deer.


Or is it WDFW coming up with every excuse they can.
That doesn't include a predator.
 

I think we might be going on bad winter number 38 now
I'm not really sure at this point.

 How can the winters be effecting the numbers, compared to “the good ole days”, when science says Global warming has made the winters much less severe since then?

[hunter399]

Are you guys talking about the................

Ten bad winters
Black/blue/red tounge
Alien Ticks that now kill deer but never have before
Maybe the Habitat Loss
Deer population has nothing to do With a buck, antlerless deer multiply on there on own.
Or only 5% of Washington residents buy a hunting liences
So poachers must of killed all the deer.


Or is it WDFW coming up with every excuse they can.
That doesn't include a predator.
 

I think we might be going on bad winter number 38 now
I'm not really sure at this point.

 How can the winters be effecting the numbers, compared to “the good ole days”, when science says Global warming has made the winters much less severe since then?

That's a question for you to ask WDFW .
I lost faith about 38 bad winters back .
 

I'm not really sure ,but one thing is for sure.
The bad winter excuse is getting lame.

[NOCK NOCK]

Everyone seems to think that the "good ole days" were AWESOME hunting ALL the time, EVERY year. Simply not true. There has always been ups and downs in deer populations, and hunting success.

Winters kill deer. Bad, good and inbetween winters. That is Fact.
Some by exposure, starvation, vehicles, easier predator targets, domestic dogs, jerky guys, poachers, etc.....

Ask some folks who spent time in the 2015-16 winter about how many dead critters they came across.

[hunter399]

Everyone seems to think that the "good ole days" were AWESOME hunting ALL the time, EVERY year. Simply not true. There has always been ups and downs in deer populations, and hunting success.

Winters kill deer. Bad, good and inbetween winters. That is Fact.
Some by exposure, starvation, vehicles, easier predator targets, domestic dogs, jerky guys, poachers, etc.....

Ask some folks who spent time in the 2015-16 winter about how many dead critters they came across.

I do agree that all kinds of factors come into play. That populations are gonna fluctuate. Few good year,few bad years.
I seen you mentioned 2015-2016 winter .
Let me ask a few question.
Does the 2015 winter have a direct impact on the population today?
Should population's have rebounded?

Did the WDFW do enough in 2016 by reducing permits or harvest to help rebound?

I only ask these cause I get it. There are cases where there is a bad winter. But at the same time I see it as an easy excuse to not assess the situation we are in now. Or to say our deer population is in bad shape from a winter 7 years ago. It may be a small contributing factor .At the same time A lot of other factors can happen in 7 years.

[bigmacc]

Winters can be tough on herds and numbers, thats just Mother Nature , been happening since the beginning of time. How those winters are managed concerning herd health is another story. I,m old enough to have experienced some pretty bad winters in the Methow, 68-69 being the worst. Ive told a few stories of my mom, dad and I staying with some friends in the north valley when that front came down the Frazier River in B.C, temps dropped to 40-50 below within hours then stuck around for days and days. I remember laying in bed and hearing apple trees exploding in the orchards, the temps would drop into the 50 below range at night, the sap would freeze in the trunks and they would just explode, sounded like gun shots. I remember vehicles freezing up, farm equipment seized up, pipes freezing, it was bad. I believe Winthrop recorded the lowest temperature on record in WA. at around 50 below zero. My dad and I were out one day and he took 8 mm movies of horses, cows and other livestock that were froze solid, leaning up against trees and fence posts. Film of deer being run down by packs of coyotes, the coyotes would just run on top of the frozen snow and run down the deer as they punched through the crust. I remember seeing deer in peoples garages, wood sheds and on peoples porches, they had no fear of humans, they were on only one mission and that was to just survive. I remember being down in Brewster where my great grandparents lived at the time and the deer were all over around Pateros and the town of Methow, the majority of the herd had migrated that far south to escape the cold, I remember seeing literally thousands upon thousands of deer in the hills along both sides of the river between Methow and Pateros, absolutely eerie, they would be huddled up in groups of 10 - 20 or more under trees trying to stay warm.  Another tough winter I witnessed was back in the 80,s, not because it was that cold but because of snow depth, the north valley had anywhere between 6-10 feet of snow and the majority of the herd got out of Dodge. The majority had migrated to the south valley, from about Carleton to the Columbia river, I swear if you seen a deer north of Twisp it was in someones yard or under feet of snow and you found it in the spring. I remember finding over 40 carcasses in a particular basin the following spring, all winter kill. Anyways, my dad and I went to a Game fellas house that we knew, we asked if he had any feed and where he wanted to send us, my dad, brother and I used to feed a lot of deer during tough winters back in the day. He sent us to an orchard across the river just off the Burma Road, he told us the owners were being subsidized and let holes be cut in the fences to let deer into the orchards to eat parts of the trees. I had a brand new Ford F-150 regular cab, we pulled into the orchard(the department was keeping the roads plowed around these particular orchards that were being subsidized), there was probably 3 to 4 feet of snow on the ground. When we came to the end of the plowed area we could see hundreds of heads, ears and antlers moving through trenches in the orchard, never seen anything like it. Eventually we had at least 2-250 deer surrounding us, packed in so tight around the truck I couldn't open the door, they stood up on their hind legs with their fronts all over my truck, totally ruining the paint and even denting it in some spots while they were pawing at the truck. I had to crawl though the window and get into the back of the truck to throw out the pellets, it was something else, ill never forget it.

Yep tough winters happen and even during some of the real doosies that I have personally experienced the herd always bounced back, they were fed and managed back to health, not all management tactics were perfect (nowadays they frown on feeding tactics etc. and some tough winters were followed up with doe shoots),even in spite of being controversial,  the herd still came back.  IMHO, the reason the Methow herd always bounced back in a relative short period of time even with the not so perfect tactics used by the Game Department back then was because of one reason and one reason only, very simple, the herds rebounded and sometimes came back even stronger because of the lack of predators compared to whats there now, even with some of those tactics that not all agreed with. The herd basically had to contend with coyotes, thats about it and they were mostly kept in check back in the day through poisoning and bounties. Bears, cats etc. were kept in check with hound hunting etc, like I've mentioned before, it was an oddity, even a treat to get a glimpse off a cougar or a bear while out and about, it was a rare experience and of coarse wolves were not an issue. This enabled the herd to bounce back  and in some cases bounce back quickly.

I dont recall how many thousands of deer died in that winter of 68-69 but within 2-3 years the herd was strong again, I killed a huge 5 by 5 in 71 that was with at least 6 or 7 other big bucks and we were seeing 70-100 deer per day that season, our post season scouting were showing numbers equaling or exceeding numbers we were seeing prior to that historic winter. Even the 69 and 70 seasons were good for us, we killed 13 bucks in 69 and 15 in 70 out of approximately 20 people in just our camp (yes, I posted pictures years ago ).  Winters certainly can impact particular herds but can be successfully managed back to healthy numbers very quickly, the predator situation we have in the Methow nowadays is the reason that doesn't happen anymore. Sure the herd can recover but the base number just continues to drop. Back in the hay-days of the Methow herd the "Game Department" actually tried to manage the herd for hunters, the WDFW has way more other irons in the fire, some of which are directly in conflict with the hunting public, managing this once historic herd for Licsense and tag sales as priority 1 are long gone, they are walking a lot of thin lines and this particular herd is showing the results of all those irons in the fire. I do know this,  if a winter like the one of 68-69 hit nowadays and with the tactics now adopted by WDFW (frowning on feeding etc.) and with exploding predator numbers, well, this particular herd would take decades if not more to even get back to what they claim it is now, IMO. The plus side to this horrible scenario would be that the predators would probably leave or die off also.

I 100% agree with bone,  address the predator issue in the valley, no more doe permits and do away with multi season tags, put the money into securing range rather than wolf study after wolf study and oh ya,  address the predator issue. IMO, doing these would help keep the Methow at least OTC and even let the quality tag program continue.....

[cb1989]

For you guys who think you're on an island with your WDFW troubles... in my home state of MI I couldn't even draw an antlerless tag for a northern public land unit two years ago... this year I'll be able to buy ten OTC. Ya, ten. To be used statewide, in any season. "Self regulation" is what they are calling it. They did something similar twenty years ago and we only started seeing deer in numbers again about ten years ago. The DNR manages hunting and fishing in MI and believe me, they are as out of touch with a large segment of the state's hunters as the WDFW is here. It's nothing new or unique. I know that doesn't help, but maybe helps you feel like mismanagement doesn't just happen in WA.