Get out your Wyoming wallets!!!

[NRA4LIFE]

I suspect a similar thing will happen in WY as did in MT a number of years ago.  MT doubled the price of deer/elk tags and for a few years it was essentially OTC, as there were leftovers every year.  That only lasted a few years and it went right back to every other or every 3rd year to draw.

[whacker1]

i have been stewing on this for the last few couple of days, and i am wondering if there is something that the non-resident community should be asking of the Wyoming legislature since the price increase is most likely to move forward.

I am thinking something along the lines of a notification over resident draw process, i.e. earlier.   last year the early notification of elk draws went away.   i understand the why that happened, but it used to be that you could apply for elk, and view the results before the deer and antelope application was due.

Maybe the answer is some additional point guarding options, perhaps?

it takes a very strategic draw to apply in multiple states with lots of money & sweat equity(stress & strategy) in the game and not have a way to cover oneself.   if you are too guarded, you never draw anything.   What i see here is that the state of Wyoming gets additional dollars from those that draw, but what do the non-residents get in return.

i am posing the question to everyone, is there something we should be lobbying for that is achievable and makes logistical sense?

[bobcat]

The state of Wyoming isn't going to care what non residents want. It's not their concern. I don't like any price increases either but they could choose to allocate zero tags to non residents. It's totally up to the state of Wyoming. We're actually very fortunate that we get 20% of the deer and antelope licenses, and residents get only 80%.

[Bob33]

The state of Wyoming isn't going to care what non residents want. It's not their concern. I don't like any price increases either but they could choose to allocate zero tags to non residents. It's totally up to the state of Wyoming. We're actually very fortunate that we get 20% of the deer and antelope licenses, and residents get only 80%.

I’m not sure that’s true. They should care about businesses and the loss of revenues they will incur if fewer non-residents visit their state. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them care more about their resident businesses than their resident hunters.

[bobcat]

The state of Wyoming isn't going to care what non residents want. It's not their concern. I don't like any price increases either but they could choose to allocate zero tags to non residents. It's totally up to the state of Wyoming. We're actually very fortunate that we get 20% of the deer and antelope licenses, and residents get only 80%.

I’m not sure that’s true. They should care about businesses and the loss of revenues they will incur if fewer non-residents visit their state. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them care more about their resident businesses than their resident hunters.

But I don't think this increase in cost for the special draw will have any affect on the number of non resident hunters.

[ctwiggs1]

The state of Wyoming isn't going to care what non residents want. It's not their concern. I don't like any price increases either but they could choose to allocate zero tags to non residents. It's totally up to the state of Wyoming. We're actually very fortunate that we get 20% of the deer and antelope licenses, and residents get only 80%.

I’m not sure that’s true. They should care about businesses and the loss of revenues they will incur if fewer non-residents visit their state. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them care more about their resident businesses than their resident hunters.

But I don't think this increase in cost for the special draw will have any affect on the number of non resident hunters.

They’ll still sell out.  That was the point I made earlier - the price is elastic and they are testing the boundary. Can’t blame them

[whacker1]

The state of Wyoming isn't going to care what non residents want. It's not their concern. I don't like any price increases either but they could choose to allocate zero tags to non residents. It's totally up to the state of Wyoming. We're actually very fortunate that we get 20% of the deer and antelope licenses, and residents get only 80%.

I’m not sure that’s true. They should care about businesses and the loss of revenues they will incur if fewer non-residents visit their state. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them care more about their resident businesses than their resident hunters.

But I don't think this increase in cost for the special draw will have any affect on the number of non resident hunters.

i also dis-agree.  They made the special more exclusive, but if they take / take, and never give any reason for the non-residents to come back, we won't (specifically me)  i hunt plenty of states.   i can apply $2000 to a landowner tag in another state in lieu of paying wyoming.   So it will likely be that i consider not applying after my next draw.  i have quite a few deer points and antelope points.   i drew elk once, and likely wouldn't apply again after the next draw. 

It doesn't hurt to ask for something and make sure the legislators know that there are some of us that will quit paying.  They need to know that there market share is limited at some point.  the question is:  what do we as non-residents want to ask for?

[dvolmer]

The state of Wyoming isn't going to care what non residents want. It's not their concern. I don't like any price increases either but they could choose to allocate zero tags to non residents. It's totally up to the state of Wyoming. We're actually very fortunate that we get 20% of the deer and antelope licenses, and residents get only 80%.

I’m not sure that’s true. They should care about businesses and the loss of revenues they will incur if fewer non-residents visit their state. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them care more about their resident businesses than their resident hunters.

But I don't think this increase in cost for the special draw will have any affect on the number of non resident hunters.

i also dis-agree.  They made the special more exclusive, but if they take / take, and never give any reason for the non-residents to come back, we won't (specifically me)  i hunt plenty of states.   i can apply $2000 to a landowner tag in another state in lieu of paying wyoming.   So it will likely be that i consider not applying after my next draw.  i have quite a few deer points and antelope points.   i drew elk once, and likely wouldn't apply again after the next draw. 

It doesn't hurt to ask for something and make sure the legislators know that there are some of us that will quit paying.  They need to know that there market share is limited at some point.  the question is:  what do we as non-residents want to ask for?

The only thing that would make them take a step back and make corrections is if they aren't able to sell all of the NR tags.  Prices would have to get really high before that happens.  If all of the tags are sold, the businesses are still getting the same number of customers.  There are a lot more people than most people think that will pay a lot more to insure they hunt every year and not sit out a year.  Wasn't very long ago at all that you could go to Wyoming and hunt deer, antelope, and general elk every year or every two years.  If you split it up you could defiantly have gone every year.  Heck, It wasn't that long ago that you could hunt Region G for deer with 3 points.  Now you are looking at like 9 points or more!  It sucks, but it is exactly what is going to happen.  It wont be long that a regular deer will be $600-$700 and the special be at $1200 or more.  Especially since they have so many NR hunters by the "you know whats" because they will balk at the higher prices but wont quit because they have so many points already and wont want to walk away from them and the money they have already spent on them.  You will come to see that hunting is an addiction and not a sport 

There are tons of things that have promoted all of this.  Cause and affects are huge in so many ways.  If you were the kind of guy that hunted other states as a NR 10 or more years ago, you have seen it all go down the tubes.  If you did all of your own research, scouting, and put your blood sweat and tears into it, you have seen it all go to hell.  You can thank many things and reasons but the main ones are all of the things that we think are all so great now.  OnX maps, Hunting fool, hunting TV, etc, etc, etc. Most of the guys that have tried to make a living in the sport they love have sold their soles to the devil.  Don't get me wrong, I have most of them and use them.  But overall, if you were already hunting and doing all of your own research, they have been your demise.  When I get emails continually from OnX, Eastmans, and GoHunt telling me to attend their seminars on how to draw for tags in this state and that state, when I watch Randy Newbergs youtube channel on how to draw this tag and that tag, and I could go on and on. I even get email warnings that I need to apply today because some states deadline has arrived! They have spoon fed the dummies.  It actually was better before it went to "Big Tech" in my opinion.  Just some rantings from an old man!  I constantly tell my grandkids that life was better before the Smart-Phone and the internet.  They think Im crazy.  Maybe I am.  But for a guy that lived back before it all and now lives with it all, it was better back then.  Don't get me wrong, I like going to youtube and seeing how to replace my fuel pump.  But life was still better before it all, and that includes hunting too.

[Stein]

The state of Wyoming isn't going to care what non residents want. It's not their concern. I don't like any price increases either but they could choose to allocate zero tags to non residents. It's totally up to the state of Wyoming. We're actually very fortunate that we get 20% of the deer and antelope licenses, and residents get only 80%.

I’m not sure that’s true. They should care about businesses and the loss of revenues they will incur if fewer non-residents visit their state. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them care more about their resident businesses than their resident hunters.

But I don't think this increase in cost for the special draw will have any affect on the number of non resident hunters.

i also dis-agree.  They made the special more exclusive, but if they take / take, and never give any reason for the non-residents to come back, we won't (specifically me)  i hunt plenty of states.   i can apply $2000 to a landowner tag in another state in lieu of paying wyoming.   So it will likely be that i consider not applying after my next draw.  i have quite a few deer points and antelope points.   i drew elk once, and likely wouldn't apply again after the next draw. 

It doesn't hurt to ask for something and make sure the legislators know that there are some of us that will quit paying.  They need to know that there market share is limited at some point.  the question is:  what do we as non-residents want to ask for?

You are proposing they won't sell out of NR tags (both special and regular applications).  This only affects the cost of the special draw, even if they have 0 applicants for a tag, it will roll into the regular draw.

The demand for tags far surpasses the supply except for a few leftover tags and I don't see that changing anytime soon.  It surely hasn't for their neighbor states.

The department will simply say we either have to charge the NRs or raise the resident prices.  The legislature will say charge the NRs, they don't vote and I don't care what they think.

[Bob33]

The state of Wyoming isn't going to care what non residents want. It's not their concern. I don't like any price increases either but they could choose to allocate zero tags to non residents. It's totally up to the state of Wyoming. We're actually very fortunate that we get 20% of the deer and antelope licenses, and residents get only 80%.

I’m not sure that’s true. They should care about businesses and the loss of revenues they will incur if fewer non-residents visit their state. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them care more about their resident businesses than their resident hunters.

But I don't think this increase in cost for the special draw will have any affect on the number of non resident hunters.

i also dis-agree.  They made the special more exclusive, but if they take / take, and never give any reason for the non-residents to come back, we won't (specifically me)  i hunt plenty of states.   i can apply $2000 to a landowner tag in another state in lieu of paying wyoming.   So it will likely be that i consider not applying after my next draw.  i have quite a few deer points and antelope points.   i drew elk once, and likely wouldn't apply again after the next draw. 

It doesn't hurt to ask for something and make sure the legislators know that there are some of us that will quit paying.  They need to know that there market share is limited at some point.  the question is:  what do we as non-residents want to ask for?

You are proposing they won't sell out of NR tags (both special and regular applications).  This only affects the cost of the special draw, even if they have 0 applicants for a tag, it will roll into the regular draw.

The demand for tags far surpasses the supply except for a few leftover tags and I don't see that changing anytime soon.  It surely hasn't for their neighbor states.

The department will simply say we either have to charge the NRs or raise the resident prices.  The legislature will say charge the NRs, they don't vote and I don't care what they think.

If that's true why does Wyoming offer any non-resident licenses? Why not make it 100/0 if they don't care about non-residents?

[Stein]

For the money.  If they made it 100/0, they would have to dramatically increase resident prices and the pitchforks would come out.  Nonresidents are simply a means of income generation that the residents put up with in return for cheap tags.

Non-residents buy expensive tags, stay in motels, buy gas, eat at restaurants and that is the only reason the legislature cares about them at all.  They are elected to represent their constituents, not the rest of the country.

[whacker1]

I agree with all of the Debbie downers in what they identify as the realistic outcome of the conversation....totally correct in that the money is still there for the foreseeable future, which will continue to feed the NR special bucket.

However, with that said, I think I am still going to write the Legislators and give them my thoughts.   I am sure it won't do much good, but I want to let them know that there are people paying attention and that they will see people cash out their points and no longer play the game.   I suspect after many folks waiting for 20 years to draw an elk tag, that they will no longer play in the more difficult draws going forward.   With the Special draws being more financially unattainable for many the regular draw odds will get worse.

I think that is the outfitters goals.   narrow that pool of people playing the higher stakes draw and their clients will be able to draw more often.

With all that said, I still want to let them know that the rest of the world sees the money grab and that if they want to continue to have people support their department through non-resident applications that they better think about providing additional value.   The commodity can only stay the same for so long, we will see another recession and applications will go down.  We will see the baby boomers fully exit the hunting community over the next 20 years.

All those that say that the regular draw is still available, but with additional cost and additional years of applying based on a larger volume of people unwilling to pay for the special.   it will take longer to draw in the preference draw. 

Maybe i advocate for a larger pool of tags go to the regular draw instead of the special draw.   i doubt that would happen, but that would make the exclusive pool less valuable.   I am truly spit balling ideas, which would be a better conversation around a campfire.  But saying nothing is not the option i am going to run with.

[Colville]

This is not a hunter recruitment issue, some have mentioned this as a negative outcome.  Kids learn to hunt at home.  Parents aren't exploring their child's hunting interest with NR tags in other states. They learn right in their backyard.  Of course some travel to grandpa, that's the rounding error.

"The only thing that would make them take a step back and make corrections is if they aren't able to sell all of the NR tags."

They could increase these proposed rates 50% more and they'll sell 100% of the tags.  If you sell apples and you have 50 of them and a line of 500 wanting apples, do you keep selling at $.50 each or do you keep raising the price until you have 50 apples and 50 people in line?   Providing for resident's of other states is not the job of a legislature. Maximize revenue, maximize resident opportunity, minimize citizen cost and use the flush resources to improve management.  I appreciate that the way this is going is making NR hunting difficult for some but you have no right to hunt another state at all.  Too few animals for too many hunters.  If hunting is very seriously a lifestyle priority, time to look for work and a home in a state with more resident opportunity.

[257 Wby Mag]

Neil, you think this will improve odds in the special draw?  Most folks I’ve been conversing with are assuming the odds won’t change much. I’m at max for deer and elk, I’m in it for the long haul. I’m also expecting Montana and others to follow suit with the price increases. Interesting times for sure

[hunter399]

Not to change the subject......
But hasn't Washington been charging big dollars for years for NR hunters to hunt here.
With no cap on the amount of NR hunters.
Maybe we should be looking into the percentage for Washington.
Maybe that's why our state wildlife and hunting suck here.
Maybe Washington should fall in line and stop being so greedy ,and protect our wildlife like other states are doing.
I also feel the same about permits hunts ,multi-season,here in Washington.
Washington is selling our wildlife for a profit.
Most Washington hunters are ok with that,but the end results is the bumpy dirt road we are headed down.
Mule deer that are declining every year,loss of youth opportunities.
Honestly I think it's good that other states are putting caps on NR hunting,or just charging big dollars.
Just maybe some hunters that are forced to stay here in Washington,will go hunt,see how bad shape our wildlife is in.
Hopefully be a little more proactive here in Washington about what's going on ,or the "why" is hunting so bad here in our home state.