Free: Contests & Raffles.
I've had a huge male walk past me about 25 feet away while hiking on the Switchback Trail on Hurricane Ridge. Saw him coming my way from a half mile out. I yielded the trail to him, just sat and watched. A week later another hiker was gored and killed by an aggressive male. Beautiful animal.
Quote from: Fidelk on May 03, 2024, 07:16:02 PMI've had a huge male walk past me about 25 feet away while hiking on the Switchback Trail on Hurricane Ridge. Saw him coming my way from a half mile out. I yielded the trail to him, just sat and watched. A week later another hiker was gored and killed by an aggressive male. Beautiful animal.Wow… did the hiker do you wrong?
I’m thinking the overpopulation of cougars are eating all the goats.
My beef was, and still is that I’ve never seen 100% scientific proof that mountain goats weren’t native to the Olympics. I never supported to relocation and culling, this only makes my dissatisfaction with the decision stronger.
So they were monitoring hundreds of the transplanted goats by GPS tracker, and no one thought to investigate when those GPS Trackers stopped?No one investigated how they all died?
So they were monitoring hundreds of the transplanted goats by GPS tracker, and no one thought to investigate when those GPS Trackers stopped?No one investigated how they all died?Sounds like a disfunctional group of monitors.
I think the highest elevation in the Olympics is about 6000 feet. Don't they prefer to be at much higher elevations?
Quote from: Fidelk on May 04, 2024, 04:56:30 PMI think the highest elevation in the Olympics is about 6000 feet. Don't they prefer to be at much higher elevations?Rocky open terrain, not really elevation dependent. You see them in the the Icicle about 600’ above the creek
Quote from: Alchase on May 04, 2024, 05:03:47 PMSo they were monitoring hundreds of the transplanted goats by GPS tracker, and no one thought to investigate when those GPS Trackers stopped?No one investigated how they all died?Sounds like a disfunctional group of monitors.I talked to a tribel guy that had told me about all the goats dieing and he was pissed that nobody ever would hike in right when they knew they were dead to see why they had died. The management decisions through this whole thing sucks, I got one on a trail camera in darrington after they relocated it and it was heading down the mountain and looked really skinny.
If they just left well enough alone..What could of been...They could of aggressively managed the Oly Pen herds, kept them in check and set a strict carry capacity goal.Deal with problem goats as necessary...It would of easily added 15-20 goat tags a year to an already dwindling OIL opportunity..Every time I look out my windows and see the Olympic's front and center I just shake my head at lost opportunities...
Quote from: Sundance on May 04, 2024, 10:06:27 AMMy beef was, and still is that I’ve never seen 100% scientific proof that mountain goats weren’t native to the Olympics. I never supported to relocation and culling, this only makes my dissatisfaction with the decision stronger.That is evidence of absence, and it’s considered a logical no go. Just like me asking you to prove that there isn’t a block of cheese orbiting Jupiter. Archeological evidence showed no sign, or exceeding murky at best, evidence of hunted goats in pre history. There is a book that I own, that I unfortunately haven’t read yet, that argues that goats in fact did inhabit the Olympics in pre-history. The author is a Washington native and a full professor of anthropology at University of Missouri-Columbia. So one should believe it is based on sound evidence, though not accepted by the majority of other researchers https://anthropology.missouri.edu/people/lyman
Quite obviously there was an issue in the area with some kind of disease or something if non transplanted goat were also dying there. There was people on this forum crying about how the number of goat permits in areas where permits were few in relation to the population. Without or denying the volatility of population to rapidly decrease on any given year.
Quote from: Skyvalhunter on May 09, 2024, 05:13:53 AMQuite obviously there was an issue in the area with some kind of disease or something if non transplanted goat were also dying there. There was people on this forum crying about how the number of goat permits in areas where permits were few in relation to the population. Without or denying the volatility of population to rapidly decrease on any given year.Funny, they removed goats from the OP to augment populations in the cascades. Now that the cascade populations are circling the toilet, I bet some wished that the OP goats had been left alone.
Quote from: Sundance on May 09, 2024, 07:45:11 AMQuote from: Skyvalhunter on May 09, 2024, 05:13:53 AMQuite obviously there was an issue in the area with some kind of disease or something if non transplanted goat were also dying there. There was people on this forum crying about how the number of goat permits in areas where permits were few in relation to the population. Without or denying the volatility of population to rapidly decrease on any given year.Funny, they removed goats from the OP to augment populations in the cascades. Now that the cascade populations are circling the toilet, I bet some wished that the OP goats had been left alone.Was that an option? The park ran the show, did NEPA and made the decisions.
Quote from: Tbar on May 09, 2024, 03:46:28 PMQuote from: Sundance on May 09, 2024, 07:45:11 AMQuote from: Skyvalhunter on May 09, 2024, 05:13:53 AMQuite obviously there was an issue in the area with some kind of disease or something if non transplanted goat were also dying there. There was people on this forum crying about how the number of goat permits in areas where permits were few in relation to the population. Without or denying the volatility of population to rapidly decrease on any given year.Funny, they removed goats from the OP to augment populations in the cascades. Now that the cascade populations are circling the toilet, I bet some wished that the OP goats had been left alone.Was that an option? The park ran the show, did NEPA and made the decisions. Those goats were going to be dead if they werent relocated . So they gave it a shot and it didnt pan out as hoped. A few added goats to the cascades better than no more goats added ...Also as far as cost I would rather see $ spent on this than MANY others things it gets spent on .
The reality is they could of left the goats alone.The justification for attempted relocation didn't merit giving those goats a death sentence in my book.In a State that's having a difficult time managing any sort of wildlife you'd hope science and common sense says leave a thriving resource alone and add some protocols to manage it better. Instead of take a chance and hope they survive a mass relocation.
Quote from: fishngamereaper on May 10, 2024, 05:52:45 AMThe reality is they could of left the goats alone.The justification for attempted relocation didn't merit giving those goats a death sentence in my book.In a State that's having a difficult time managing any sort of wildlife you'd hope science and common sense says leave a thriving resource alone and add some protocols to manage it better. Instead of take a chance and hope they survive a mass relocation.NPS was lead on NEPA. Did you comment? Did you attend the meetings and speak up? There was opportunities for all to be involved in the determination of their existence in the park. Many involved did not support eradicating them but really wanted to make the best of the situation.
Quote from: Tbar on May 10, 2024, 06:43:16 AMQuote from: fishngamereaper on May 10, 2024, 05:52:45 AMThe reality is they could of left the goats alone.The justification for attempted relocation didn't merit giving those goats a death sentence in my book.In a State that's having a difficult time managing any sort of wildlife you'd hope science and common sense says leave a thriving resource alone and add some protocols to manage it better. Instead of take a chance and hope they survive a mass relocation.NPS was lead on NEPA. Did you comment? Did you attend the meetings and speak up? There was opportunities for all to be involved in the determination of their existence in the park. Many involved did not support eradicating them but really wanted to make the best of the situation.Yes and yesUnfortunately what's done is done But I will stand firm that I disagree with the EIS and the associated CBI review that goats allegedly where not native to the area. And that removal was the only option....A major factor of the management plan was human interaction. Maybe they should of taken a step in managing humans first....that park is overdue for a reduction in tourism..I grew up in those mountains and the flood of people the last few years is mind blowing.And just to be clear even if the relocation was a complete success I would still have the same opinion..those mountains deserve goats....