special app draws quick Question

[400out]

Morning my question is which of the special apps do you thnk will get drawn first ( bull or antlerless)? I contacted wsfw but could not get a answer THe rep said that you can not hunt both hunts so you will have to choose between if you get drawn but you loose your points in both, but my point was and is if I got drawn for cow then do I still have the same chances for bull? I know that the points I have will go toward all draws, why should I loose my points for on one or the other if I can not hunt it! Do you think I should pick and choose or apply for both and take my lumps if the worst happens?  I have a crappy feeling that a lot of people that apply for both hunts will get drawn for both and have to choose  and in turn loose they're points in both catagories!

[Woodchuck]

i was told by one of the nice folks in oly that you could in theory be drawn in two categories for the same season, my though would be that if by some freakish accident by the *censored* gods and i pulled a bull tag and anterless tag, i would hunt hard for the bull and at the end if no luck hope to put a cow down, you can hunt both, can only kill one 

[bobcat]

That's right, you can use every permit that you draw. You could draw three elk permits and use them all. That's why you should lose your points in all the categories in which you draw. If you don't want to take a chance of drawing more than one per species, then apply only for a point in some of the categories.You chances of drawing a bull permit is not affected by also drawing a cow permit. It doesn't matter in what order they draw for each category. They are all separate.

[400out]

Thanks guy that kind of clears it up, I just wonder how many people will draw both this year and lose all points

[bobcat]

People that have a lot of points, and put in for bull hunts and cow hunts, there will be a bunch of them drawing two permits, I suspect. Then they'll go crying to the WDFW and trying to get their points reinstated. I'm sure we'll have some whiners on here too. I stand the risk of drawing more than one elk permit myself, but I only have 3 points so my odds of even getting one aren't good.

[the1rod]

i was curious about this two. i only put in for antlerless so i dont have to worry about it. but i dont see why if you were to draw two that you couldent choose one, deny the other and let the one that you denied be re-drawn and given to a different hunter.then you would only be able to hunt one and get to keep your points in the one that you denied. sounds like an easy solution to me, gives more opportunities to more hunters and keeps others from wasting points.

[bobcat]

I don't think they want to deal with re-issuing of permits. The easiest solution would have been to only allow one application per species. But that would make too much sense and might actually improve draw odds, which is what they originally were trying to do with the changes they made. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

i was curious about this two. i only put in for antlerless so i dont have to worry about it. but i dont see why if you were to draw two that you couldent choose one, deny the other and let the one that you denied be re-drawn and given to a different hunter.then you would only be able to hunt one and get to keep your points in the one that you denied. sounds like an easy solution to me, gives more opportunities to more hunters and keeps others from wasting points.

Many in our camp with 14 points like this idea!  I brought that up to the  the commissioner from K/F in Leavenworth  and he made the motion to monitor this scenario to see if it needs to be addressed next year.
 In previous years there was a paragraph stating if a person drew a tag by mistake that they could turn the permit in and reinstate their point totals. I read it in the 1 1/2 inch thick booklet they handed out at the meeting.
 Want to increase draw odds, then go back to the system used until about 1997. (for ELK) DFW would loose MEGA$$$$

[bobcat]

In previous years there was a paragraph stating if a person drew a tag by mistake that they could turn the permit in and reinstate their point totals. I read it in the 1 1/2 inch thick booklet they handed out at the meeting.

It is still that way. But how do you prove it was a "mistake?"

[Elkaholic daWg]

  How do they prove it wasn't?
 Not really worried about it happening to us sinc e we all put in for a colockum quality (2 available) and mission bull (1 available) and an antlerless. Chances are almost non existant of pulling one of the first two!


 Last year we would not have even considered a cow tag. Did that make for better odds for those who did this year. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[bobcat]

Exactly. I think they will be getting a lot of phone calls by people that made a mistake, right after the results come out.

[lokidog]

   

"WAAAA!  I got my 12 points transferrred into every category and now I got drawn for two elk tags and I lost my cow tag points when I shot that big bull, I want my points back because I didn't even hunt for cows."

I am so sick of people trying to game the system.  You all shouldn't have gotten points in EVERY category for the points you had anyways.  If you were worried about it, do like the people that could think ahead more than three days and either gamble losing the points or don't apply in more than one category.

Get over it WDFW F'ed most people over in some way with this *censored* change in the system.  

  +  

[GoldTip]

I have to agree with Lokidog on this one.  One problem I foresee that this will create, is there will be a percentage of guys with high numbers of points that applied for anltlerless tags as well as bull and quality bull that draw both or hell all three, then will not end up hunting a cow at all.  This will decrease the Cow harvest that the department wishes to achieve.  I think there will also be guys who draw the cow tag with 14 points who don't go hunt a cow at all, further leading to the decreased harvest.  I think this is probably an unforeseen circumstance that the WDFW created without even thinking about it.  The unfortunate thing is that there are guys who knew they could draw a cow tag every 2-3 years and have been doing so, and for the next year or two, the odds will be very long at even drawing an antlerless tag while the big point guys get weeded out by drawing the tag.  I have 5 points, and generally that would have almost assured a cow tag in most units that have antlerless permits, but thats unlikely this year I would guess.

[WDFW-SUX]

They have created a huge log jam of points in the quality category.....people are not having to make the choice on antlerless vs antlered now so its going to be 2x as long of wait for good tags...

[bobcat]

They have created a huge log jam of points in the quality category.....people are not having to make the choice on antlerless vs antlered now so its going to be 2x as long of wait for good tags...

True, at least with the elk permits. I'm not so sure the quality deer odds will be affected much by this.