skybusters anonymous

[OSCAR1987]

Hi
I found out today that I am "that guy"    
oops
 I just got the bug to be outdoors in 2008. Before that I never even thought about owning a gun, let alone killing anything and eating it. Then I moved to Washington for a good job and eventually got the idea to try Deer hunting from co-workers. I bought a Remington 870 and my license and hit the woods. I went every night and sat in the mud, doing everything wrong but never gave up. Then one evening a during a N Easter storm I found an apple tree and sat by it until just before dark. I had decided to leave when I noticed movement. A huge 3x4 Black tail stepped right past me like a dream and I whacked him. This was my first deer I even saw while hunting and it was the biggest thrill imaginable. Now I am hopelessly hooked.
 Since then I have tried other things like upland bird last year (pheasant) and now ducks this year.
 I have been very lucky to speak with several experienced hunters in local west side game area parking lots and they have given me some advice that I try to listen to, but also some of it was to get me out of their way (good spot over there). Today was the day one of those old salty guys told me that I am the guy that some people wanted to leave and never come back to "their" spot. I guess they have been watching me over the past month or so and silently cursing my presence. He informed me that as I was merrily missing birds and shooting like mad at ducks, they were hunting in the next field over getting birds spooked by me. They said I was shooting way too much and sky busting birds that were too far from me. I never even realized what I was doing  and wish they would have talked to me sooner so I would have not wrecked their hunt. I try to be a good sportsman at all times and never intended to act like an idiot. I chalk it up to a lack of experience and no coaching. Coming from a broken family and never having the father figure around to teach me anything about hunting or the outdoors left me to learn from internet, TV and in the local GMU's for the last 2 seasons. I will not leave my kids to do the same.
I am glad he came up to me today and shared his buddies frustration because it made me realize that I am "that" guy.     How far is really too far and where else can a guy learn but in the field? I can't get the range on the internet and on TV where every guy is a shooting god and kill birds at 100 yards.  
 I am DONE for this year and looking for a mentor for next season to teach me how to not be "that guy" anymore.  
 

[ribka]

Good post. Wish more hunters fisherman had your attitude. Lot's of very experienced waterfowl hunters on here more than willing to help with advice. Spend some more time on here and share experiences and will hasten the help. I can help with upland birds next year if you want to get out. I am not that experienced of a waterfowl hunter.

And stop watching the hunting shows There is so much misinformation, unethical behavior on there and it is hurting hunting 

[dirty24d]

Oscar,

Way to man up and take responsiblity for your actions  even though you didnt know you did any wrong.. There are many members on this site that can and will educate you on guidleines and ethics for waterfowling. Good on you for taking the crticism and doing positive with it!   

[huntingfool7]

To start off, I am impressed that you take criticism so well.  There are a lot of guys that would have taken that badly and never realized that there may be a problem.  Good for you to be able to turn the microscope inwards.  I would recommend that you start shooting skeet regularly.  A year of shooting every week will go a long way toward being proficient.  Being effective with a shotgun is a skill that takes time to learn.  Once you are able to hit consistently, you will know why you missed that bird.  Whether you're behind it, didn't mount the gun properly or if it was just too far.  Besides, it is a lot more fun if you are not burning up a couple boxes of ammo for one mud hen.

Range estimation is another skill that will be learned with time and practice.  Birds in the air, and of different sizes make this more difficult.  It's not like you can use a rangefinder on a flying bird.  It sounds like you are shooting at birds that are not commiting to your decoys? (do you have decoys?)  
I have a buddy that was a notorious skybuster.  It turned out that he had vision problems and could not judge distance at all.

[Blacktail135]

 I'll usually let 'em go if their 35yds and beyond. Sometimes I'll either post a stick in the mud or place my furthest decoy out at 35 paces from the blind. Where I usually hunt they're gonna be 15-25yds out if they're commited. Had a guy with me a month or so back that dropped one at 60yds. Just broke a wing, dogs day off and lost that bird. I like 'em close.  

[CP]

I've had good luck with the Tom Knapp range finder method:

Your Built-In Range Finder
Built-In Range Finder – Every Hunter that hunts with a firearm has one! Regardless of the shape or diameter of your front sight, it can serve as a quick reference to determine the distance between you and your intended target. This comes in handy while trying to determine the proper forward lead that is required for passing or moving targets. Unlike the electronic range finders, this method requires your memory and ability to obtain your sight picture quickly.

Here’s how it works…Find (or sketch) a life-size image of the bird or animal you intend to hunt. For this example, I’ll refer to dove hunting. Oh, and by the way, this procedure does not require any shooting so you can do this in your back yard in preparation for your hunting trip. Take the life-size image of a dove and run it through your fax copier 3 times or sketch 3 images (of the same). Then you’ll need 3 stakes or cardboard boxes to attach the paper images to. Place the first image a measured (paced off) common shooting distance from your aiming position… normal dove shooting near a water hole could be as close as 15 yards. Then pace off another 10 yards from the first image, keeping in mind to set the second image a little to the side so you can see past the first and view the second. Then, pace off another 10 yards and place the third so it can be viewed without having to move from your aiming position. Now, we have the same size targets, the first at 15, the second at 25, and the third at 35 yards from your aiming position.

By looking at the three images, the furthest appears quite a bit smaller than that of the closest, even though they are all the same (life size) images. You already know the measured distances, so here’s where you turn your memory chip on! By using the same gun that you intend to hunt with, take aim at the first image. Pay particular attention to the front sight’s diameter (or width) in relation to the image’s size. You’ll note that the 15 yard image is much bigger than that of your front sight, perhaps the front sight is about the same size as the doves head. RECORD this bead – bird relationship in your brain factory as CLOSE – or – SHORT LEAD. Then do the same with the second image. Note that the front sight will cover maybe half of the image. RECORD this as MEDIUM – or – DOUBLE THE LEAD of the close one. Now, don’t be surprised when you aim at the third and find that your front sight completely covers the image. This is the no-brainer of the bunch! If your front sight covers the entire image, you may not know the exact distance, but it should tell your brain to extend your forward lead UNCOMFORTABLY in front.

[lokidog]

Another thing is to figure out your effective range.  Pattern your gun with the shells and choke you will be using.  You need to have an even distribution of pellets in a 30 inch circle.  Figure out how far out you can shoot and stick to it.

Good luck next season.

[DeadgrassPeake1]

Wow! It take big brass ones to post something like this on the internet. Don't let it discourage you from continuing to hunt. At least you are man enough to see your mistakes. You will be a better waterfowler for it someday. Take a trip to the trap range, and you will have a really good idea of what your effective range is very quickly. Make sure you have your gun is choked right and you are using the correct load too. I wish everyone out there was willing to take constructive criticism and admit there mistakes like you. Pretty impressive in my opinion.

[Pathfinder101]

I'll chime in and say the same thing... a post like this takes some guts, and some introspect.  Good for you man.  FOr what it's worth, when I duck hunt I go with guys who know what they are doing (I don't do a lot of it) and I don't shoot till someone says "take'em".  Duck hunting is like a science in itself, and I am not that good.  Judging range, sex and species is a skill that I have not honed yet, so I leave that stuff up to the experts, hunker down in the blind, hold the dog, and wait for the guy with the call to giveme the signal...
Sorry you don't live closer, but I am sure that with the honest additude you displayed in your post, you won't have to wait long before you find someone to hunt with that can show you the ropes...
Stick with it and don't get discouraged.  I grew up hunting, but took a 10 year break while I was gone in the Army.  When I came back here, I was way behind the power curve, and had a lot of catching up to do (re-learning stuff I forgot).
Good luck.

[jbeaumont21]

What part of the state are you in Oscar?

[OSCAR1987]

What part of the state are you in Oscar?

Birch Bay - near the Canada border -

[WSU]

Don't worry about it.  Don't get me wrong, i hate skybusters as much as the next guy.  But, I also completely understand.  I started  bird hunting with no mentor.  Fact is, you learn how far away you can kill birds effectively.  You don't magically know how far is too far.  Unless you have some sixth sense that I didn't, you learn by trial and error.  Just learn from what you are doing and pay attention to the effective range, and otherwise keep on hunting.

[sisu]

This is probably going to be the best waterfowl post of 2011.  Thank you everyone for your support and added advice. 

[Lightning_Rider]

LMAO!!! don't worry, everyone starts somewhere...your post brought back some ol' memories!!! If you have time, you should book a guided trip around the moses lake area, you would learn alot from people that waterfowl hunt for a living plus it wouldnt cost more than a couple of hundred bucks

[400out]

We all have done it and don't let anyone tell you they haven't!  You will figure it out I'm sure of it, I can't come on here and tell you how far to shoot! There are a lot of factors that go into this decision!
You may not even be shooting at out of range birds, It is hard to tell from another field if a bird is out of range to you or not! You might be just off a little on your lead  shooting skeet could be a good replacement to years of shooting (which most of us have)
The thing I can tell you is if the bird stops in mid air and flies strait up you led it to far and adjust you aim
I will keep your post in mind and keep watching it to see if I can add anything to some of the others info. Good luck and enjoy your new addiction 

[chester]

Most people start waterfowling as "That guy".  Its all part of the learning curve. The more you do it, the more you figure out, the birds get closer, more start falling, and you blow through fewer shells over time. You are now aware of the issue and im sure you will take what people have said to mind and choose your shots better.

[Special T]

Hello my name is Special T and I have been a Skybuster!    Good post and it takes stones to admit when your wrong or do something stupid... I still like to shoot out on the edge of my shooting ability... Fortunately i have a place to do it when there is no one else around to screw it up... Welcome to the addiction...

[ducks55]

I go with seeing the eyes. If I can clearly see the eyes on a bird then MOST times its within range.

[Blacktail135]

 OSCAR1987.....chester nailed it.....you're AWARE that you're not doing this right (shooting within range) and you're seeking to do so. That's a great start! We've all been there.
 Duck hunting and duck shooting are 2 different thing's. Setting yourself up to be where the duck's really want to be (commiting to your spread/zone) is duck hunting. Duck shooting is getting in shooting range of a duck and doing so.....whether attraction or jumpshooting it's all the same.
 There is a lot to learn about this duck hunting sport (setup, range, identification (on the wing especially), ethic's etc. etc.
 Shooting clay's will help the shooting part a bit but, shooting lead at clay's is a little bit different than shooting steel at duck's. The shot string for steel is a bit shorter than lead. BOTH require follow through on your shooting skill's and follow through is very important. An ounce of #7 1/2 lead is different than an ounce and 1/8 of #2 steel.
 I'd like to say just aim for just in front of the bill  for now but, this sport is just too diverse for such advise.

 

[Stickerbush]

I would try shooting clays with some of the same loads you are using, if you can dust a clay with it then it will probably be a dead duck. I think its a little misleading on the hunting shows because the camera makes it look a lot farther than it is, plus they are usually pro hunters that shoot very well. I prefer to shoot at ducks when they are pretty close within 15-20 yards landing in the decoys. With some of the premium ammo you can get out a little farther. If I'm having a slow day I might take some more iffy pass shots but experience will get you a better idea of effective range. good luck!

[sakoshooter]

Oscar,
I agree with everyone else as you're a good guy to admit your fault. Everyone that's ever hunted ducks has taken a shot that was out of range including myself.
Growing up hunting ducks/geese w/dad/grandpa, they had a couple strict rules - No Sky Busting! They always said thet if you see the geese's eyes and the ducks coloration enough to tell species and gender, they were in range. This still holds true for me and my partners. I even get teased about shooting only close ducks.
The 'effective' range of a shotgun is much less than people think. While shooting trap, skeet and sporting clays is great practice, and you should definitely do this, clay targets break easy from even a single hit from a tiny pellet. Waterfowl are tough and need to be killed cleanly, not crippled. Duck55 sounds like he uses the same theory. Even these theories are not perfect.  Bright sunny windless days makes this easy but horizontal rain in your face and a 50mph duck makes this a little tougher. So does the split second that you usually have to decide what to do. When in doubt - don't. I've passed a lot of 'in range' shots because I wasn't sure untill it was too late. Many of these same birds turned around because of not being spooked and swung back into the decoys and got shot. Many of these birds kept going. Some might have just been checking out the neighborhood for later use. Ya never know.
I can say this: There's little worse than to have a good group of birds committed to your spread only to have some guy open up and sky bust at a duck near by. This invariably spooks your ducks also.
Give me a holler sometime and we'll drink some coffee over a spread of decoys sometime if you're sincere about yor post.

[PNWsportsman]

Ducks are the only critter I hunt which I actually lure towards me.  In fact, luring ducks is my main appeal to duck hunting.  Get yourself some decoys, some other decoying gadgets such as motion decoys, hide yourself well, hunt where the ducks want to be, and shoot them at 25yrds.  Eventually you will have a lights out hunt and I bet youll never go back to sky busting.  Good luck.

[seth30]

I am a sky buster, and dont know it until I miss or drop the duck.  They hit the water and I realize crap thats a long ways to tread.  If they are flying along the water then I can tell how far, but if I cant see the water or ground as I am wathcing the ducks then I suck at telling how far they are.  then again its my first seaons as well.

[somethinsmellsfishy]

New to duck hunting here also and have been going out with a guy that has hunted for years and only shoot when told to get them. So far we have not had much success, but he had sold all his gear and I just got some decoys.

I also have a good friend that has hunted ducks for 55 or 60 years and he has been adamant about me being taught right. One of his biggest peeves is skybusting and being hunting ethically. He has taught me a lot and I know that I have lots more to learn. Joining this board has given me some insight into how others hunt and what I should and should not do out there.

Hope it turns out to be a great year for all of us.

Fishy

[Special T]

I second PNW Sportman  statement... Once you get ducks cupped coming into the blocks and hovering, you will be forever hooked and strive to make it happen when ever possible. I LOVE it when i can get it to work... Which is why its important not to be "That Guy"... "That Guy" normally screws up that kind of experience for everyone else...    I also think that many people take longer shot on birds that are hung up, or wary because the perceived competition with others in the area...

[OSCAR1987]

Guys
Thanks a lot for all of the encouragement and support. I am a bit surprised to hear that so many of you started out in similar situations and admitted it to all. That alone makes me want to get back out there and keep on trying to get it RIGHT. I was way upset about the whole situation and a bit ashamed of myself for wrecking the hunt for other guys. I will try some of the practices like you guys suggest especially the Tom Knapp method- that one really sounds good! I also plan to do some more skeet shooting this spring and over the summer to get better at hitting moving targets. I have done that once at a turkey shoot and I ended up with 2 hams - not turkeys but my kids ate them up and loved it!   I do have a dozen decoys that a guy at work gave me because he doesn't duck hunt anymore and a Buck-Gardner call my 77 yr old uncle sent me from Arkansas. I have been listening to how to videos on you tube for duck calling and had some ducks actually come to my decoys after calling to them and land right in the middle of them early on this season. I killed 2 ducks and wasted 1 of my decoys in the process-OOPS!  Calling hasn't worked at all after Thanksgiving for me.
I am currently laid up in the hospital with a severely broken ankle and will have probably 2 or 3 months of rehab before I am back in shape to do much.

[sakoshooter]

Good luck w/ankle Oscar. Next year will be here before you know it.

[Ratdog68]

Only difference 'tween you and I (Oscar) is... I was fortunate enough to have my first duck hunt be an "invite" with a buddy of mine who's hunted for a while.  All I had to do was show up with my scattergun and waders, help with some decoy hauling/set-up...  and follow "destructions".  Had a blast, missed a few birds, missed a couple of opportunities since I wasn't sure of the range/safety of the shot and decided to err on the side of no one getting hurt.  But... got me a nice pair of ducks and had a ball !   Lookin' forward to tryin' it again next year !

Take good care of that hoof and get back into form. 

[Malardman]

Yes It takes huge BRASS Balls to admit that, and I give you a huge applause, Everbody learns somewhere, and like you posted nobody ever taught you right from wrong. Another one be damn proud of yourself for just going out and doing it!!! waterfowling is dangerous and I never like to go alone... There is a guy I met on this forum that I have gone duck hunting with a couple of times. First time no birds, second time took'em to Skagit we were in a blind, to Mallards were coming in he's lookin up at them nothing covering his head (he's bald) I said put your head down he stands up shoulders his gun, I say NOOOO, The birds were cupped and committed 65yds out and he flared them, I said what's wrong with you? he said what? those were soooo close. I looked at him and called him a Skybuster, then told him he's a Cherry Valley hunter, he laughed I laughed then I told him I would call the shots. What do you know dead duck. He never had anybody to teach him right from wrong either. If you would be willing to travel to Skagit I will take you duck hunting can't promise anything but good conversation, and some 101. PM me if your intrested....

[Pathfinder101]

Hope you feel better soon Oscar.  FYI, late season ducks are harder to fool than early season ducks.  THink of it this way; January ducks have been called to, shot at and seen plastic ducks floating in ponds all the way down from Canada for the last 3 months.  Those that survive to make it down here are pretty savvy by now...

[OSCAR1987]

I'll get 'em next season.........

[TheSkyBuster]

Cool Thread, when do the meetings start? 

[OSCAR1987]

 

Hi I am Drew and I am a recovering Skybuster!   

I am planning my season in advance by starting to gather several duck calls on Ebay and listening to Youtube videos on how to call. I bid on about 20 calls at a dollar each and won seven. The best ones so far as I can tell are  three Buck Gardner calls. There are some that have double reeds , but I don't know what the significance of that means. ( FEEL FREE TO CHIME IN)
There is also a stunning beautifully  hand crafted Griff call that sounds amazing ($.99). I am driving the family nuts with the feeding calls, hail calls. 
I also ended up with two mis-represented Goose calls.

I am still recovering from major foot surgery Jan 3 and have more than a month to go before I am allowed to put weight on it so I have loads of time right now. The outlook is really good and the doc says I will be better mobility than I have had for years. I was able to hike in for several miles before the surgery with a pack and decoy bag, so I should be good to go next season. 

- Drew

[TheSkyBuster]

My name is TheSkyBuster and I'm A sky buster  I have been diagnosed with a disease know as Accute Waterfowlethismós,

 Accute Waterfowlethismós is a phycological disorder common among males between 13 and 70 years of age but some cases have been reported in women and even certain breeds of dogs.  Very little is know about the causes of Accute Waterfowlethismós.   Accute Waterfowlethismós it is a very serious disease and it can have disastrous effects on a patients lifestyle and finances.  Typical symptoms include waking up in the middle of the night or early hours of the morning, wandering through cold wet or frozen marshes in the dark (often while carrying large amounts of gear) only to stop and arrange a complicated display of floating plastic waterfowl then attempt to imitate the sound of a duck by blowing into a call to decieve the ducks to fly close enough to shoot out of the air. These attempts are often made in vain.  Subjects also display a strong desire to dress themselves in thick, heavy, camo patterned clothing. Accute Waterfowlethismós has also been associated with uncontrollable impulse buying of certain items like decoys, calls, waders, guns, shells, meat smokers, and boats.  In extreme cases sufferers will empty there bank accounts to obtain these items. Other symptoms including being unable to concentrate at work, daydreaming, constantly checking the weather forecast and tide tables.  Sufferers of Accute Waterfowlethismós have been observed speaking a strange language with words like sprig, bulls, cans, divers, greenies, doubles, triples, and constantly asking when's LST? (legal shooting time)  Sufferers of Accute Waterfowlethismós usually experience these symtoms in outbreaks or "Flair-Ups".  Flair-Ups generally last between 4 and 6 months, during these months the patient will appear to be "In a daze" or "almost zombie like" escpecially when returning from the marsh. This is most likely associated with lack of sleep.  At times between Flair-Ups they may becomed bored or depressed.
 There is no cure for Accute Waterfowlethismós but length of Flair-Ups can be greatly reduced with the help of Bitchygirlfriend, Bitchygirlfriend is not for everyone, talk to your guide or hunting buddies to determine if Bitchygirlfriend is right for you. If you start taking Bitchygirlfriend and your symptoms worsen or don't improve bitchygirlfriend will probably immedietly discontinue use.  You should not take Bitchygirlfriend if you are already taking Bitchywife as serious health threats or death may result.

[Special T]

LMFAO!

[White Tornado]

My name is TheSkyBuster and I'm A sky buster  I have been diagnosed with a disease know as Accute Waterfowlethismós,

 Accute Waterfowlethismós is a phycological disorder common among males between 13 and 70 years of age but some cases have been reported in women and even certain breeds of dogs.  Very little is know about the causes of Accute Waterfowlethismós.   Accute Waterfowlethismós it is a very serious disease and it can have disastrous effects on a patients lifestyle and finances.  Typical symptoms include waking up in the middle of the night or early hours of the morning, wandering through cold wet or frozen marshes in the dark (often while carrying large amounts of gear) only to stop and arrange a complicated display of floating plastic waterfowl then attempt to imitate the sound of a duck by blowing into a call to decieve the ducks to fly close enough to shoot out of the air. These attempts are often made in vain.  Subjects also display a strong desire to dress themselves in thick, heavy, camo patterned clothing. Accute Waterfowlethismós has also been associated with uncontrollable impulse buying of certain items like decoys, calls, waders, guns, shells, meat smokers, and boats.  In extreme cases sufferers will empty there bank accounts to obtain these items. Other symptoms including being unable to concentrate at work, daydreaming, constantly checking the weather forecast and tide tables.  Sufferers of Accute Waterfowlethismós have been observed speaking a strange language with words like sprig, bulls, cans, divers, greenies, doubles, triples, and constantly asking when's LST? (legal shooting time)  Sufferers of Accute Waterfowlethismós usually experience these symtoms in outbreaks or "Flair-Ups".  Flair-Ups generally last between 4 and 6 months, during these months the patient will appear to be "In a daze" or "almost zombie like" escpecially when returning from the marsh. This is most likely associated with lack of sleep.  At times between Flair-Ups they may becomed bored or depressed.
 There is no cure for Accute Waterfowlethismós but length of Flair-Ups can be greatly reduced with the help of Bitchygirlfriend, Bitchygirlfriend is not for everyone, talk to your guide or hunting buddies to determine if Bitchygirlfriend is right for you. If you start taking Bitchygirlfriend and your symptoms worsen or don't improve bitchygirlfriend will probably immedietly discontinue use.  You should not take Bitchygirlfriend if you are already taking Bitchywife as serious health threats or death may result.

You forgot to mention the side affects of taking Bithygirlfriend.......chronic headaches, loss of sexual desire, fatigue, sleeplessness, irritability and the occasional desire to shoot yourself!!   

[OSCAR1987]

I bought a boat, camo'd it and am in the process of outfitting a blind for it
NEXT  season will be different....

[Alan K]

Glad I'm pretty much the only guy duck hunting where I'm at. . . People wouldn't like me very much! 

Good to hear you got yourself into the sport, it's tough when you're in close quarters with other hunters and trying to have a decent hunt for yourself without stepping on others' toes.  Sounds like you're on the way to becoming a successful hunter.

[OSCAR1987]

Thanks
I am hoping to get a little distance with the boat so I won't be pissin people off so bad. I guess the next set of ethics I need help on would be surrounding boating. If you hunt Terrell up North, give me the skinny before I get out there and screw that up too!

[crow360]

If anyone needs a great place for skybusting rehab here is a link to the best in Washington. Its a little bit of a drive but one weekend there and you will be shooting like a pro. If anyone does want some help shooting just let me know and I can point you in the right direction for some good local gun ranges.

http://www.sunnydellshootinggrounds.com/

[h2ofowlr]

If anyone needs a great place for skybusting rehab here is a link to the best in Washington. Its a little bit of a drive but one weekend there and you will be shooting like a pro. If anyone does want some help shooting just let me know and I can point you in the right direction for some good local gun ranges.

http://www.sunnydellshootinggrounds.com/

Good school.  Talk about a guy who has experienced it all.  Was a champion then had it stripped due to substance abuse.  Unfortunate story, but he knows the game.