.45-70 lever action as bear defence?

[Fl0und3rz]

http://www.gunblast.com/Marlin-1895SBL.htm

6+1, recoil pad, big loop lever, stainless, and XS sights.

[MikeWalking]

http://www.gunblast.com/Marlin-1895SBL.htm

6+1, recoil pad, big loop lever, stainless, and XS sights.

I need two.  Two. 

[Kowsrule30]

45-70 would be way better then a 308..... You're more then likely only going to get one shot off if that in a self defense case against a mad/surprised bear..... A side arm of heavy caliber would be way better..... Some relatives in AK carry 12 gauge slug guns with 20 inch barrels and open sights.... Another only uses his old 30-30 Win lever action with 220 grain handloads again open sights..... He's a good ole' boy and has dropped 2 charging griz with one shot between the eyes..... One landed on his feet and knocked him into the river with his feet pinned under the bears chin.... These are all family members on my wifes side.... I'm not that cool....    Only met them a handful of times so far but they seem legit from all the pics and stories I've seen and heard....  Would like to get up there and do some hunting with them.... Moose in their back yard!!!! 

[MikeWalking]

45-70 would be way better then a 308..... You're more then likely only going to get one shot off if that in a self defense case against a mad/surprised bear..... A side arm of heavy caliber would be way better...

Highly Debatable, Handgun that is.  I did sleep with a Super Redhawk full of  330gr +P tied to my wrist but for the daily hike to the next spot it was the 1895 45-70 hanging at the ready.  With rules about crossing any area where visibility was less than 50 yards.  Most all my trips were well North of the tree line so visibility wasn't usually much of an issue.  Where there were willows or spruce I went around or treated like an ambush zone, making lots of noise and rifle shouldered...

The recoil from those +P's was so bad a third shot left my wrist stinging so bad my ring and little fingers stopped working.  I could put 3-4 45-70's on target a lot faster than than I could with the .44

FWIW The only time in 8 Griz encounters I felt the need put sights on (including being spotted in the open by a Sow and cubs) I spotted him about 200 yards off as he sniffed my trail up to camp.  At 75 yards he finally turned and speed-walked off.  He's one of the avatar pics I use.  I sometimes wonder if he knew he had reached the rock I had checked my sights on when I got dropped off..

[sakoshooter]

Hard to beat a 12ga shotgun for that.

[deerhunter_98520]

i have a single shot 45-70 ...i was doing some research on the 500gr bullets and they say getting hit with one of those at 50yds is like getting hit with a vw bug doin 30mph....id say that would put a hurtin on a big bear

[Bean Counter]

Hard to beat a 12ga shotgun for that.

Thats what I'm thinking in reading these stories. I've never been to AK so I cant relare. Seems reasonable, the stories that you only get one shot off anyway.

If its just for defense a $400 12.gauge seems far more economical than some of the $1,000+ setups being discussed. Is there more kinetic energy from a .45-70 than a 1oz. slug or something?

[wraithen]

437.5 grains to an ounce. Sooo... with a 500 grainer... As long as it's going at least as fast as the slug, the 45/70 wins.

[Bean Counter]

All right, quantitative analysis  now were breaking it down

If I had to bet id think a rifle round would be faster than a slug.

[RadSav]

They used to make that gun in the .450 Marlin.  Wonder why they aren't doing that anymore.  My guide buddy in BC absolutely loves his.  He's taken three grizzlies that I know of with his.

[TeacherMan]

I have a 45/70 and a 44. I always carry my 44 because its easier and more comfortable. Plus I don't set it down on the shore and walk off without it. With that said I do have a 45-70 guide gun (for a short time, I'm trading it for a new English Springer Spaniel pup) and it will more than do the job on any bear, Buffalo Boar Ammo  . If I ever get another one which I will I just want it to be stainless. All bear guns should be stainless. When ever I'm bear hunting or fishing its always wet and I'm always dealing with rust. All my guns in AK are being transitioned over to stainless.

good luck with your choice!

[MikeWalking]

Off the top of my head a 12ga slug averages about 2500-3000lbs of ME.  Some a little or a lot  more I'm sure.  Most though aren't meant for killing dangerous game, not that I've seen yet.

The 430gr load from BB I use claims 3537lbs of ME.   I went for the 45-70 because I wanted Penetration.  I felt more confident about being able to drill a .45 hole end to end and breaking every bone it hit along the way.

There's no doubt plenty have folks have used a 12ga and survived.  They are affordable, simple and reliable.    A person just needs to decide where their comfort level is.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=35

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570.html

[Knocker of rocks]

They used to make that gun in the .450 Marlin.  Wonder why they aren't doing that anymore.  My guide buddy in BC absolutely loves his.  He's taken three grizzlies that I know of with his.

Marlin does make a 1895 .450 Marlin lever gun.  I think it carries 4+1 rounds.  Winchester makes a .45-70 lever that holds eight rounds.

[Bean Counter]

There's no doubt plenty have folks have used a 12ga and survived. They are affordable, simple and reliable. A person just needs to decide where their comfort level is.

Simple indeed. In the FBI study Violent Encounters, they detail the severe decrease in visual, auditory, and fine motor skills in fight or flight situations. Lots of training and practice are critical to being able to perform anything more than basic tasks jn a life or death scenario. To me, a pump action is far more basic than a lever action and would be my choice for an Oh $h!t bear gun despite the elephant guns superior ballistics. 

[high country]

A griz can run at better than 50 fps. It ain't going to make a pinch of poop difference if you have 300 or 500 grains hitting it. You either wipe its computer out or wait the couple minutes for it to bleed out while crunching your corpse. There are plenty of guides who have killed bears with small handguns in bad situations and plenty of bears that soaked up a bunch of 416 rems too. When it comes to bear defense, just hang with a fat friend.....your odds are better.