Post by: walt on July 12, 2018, 06:15:44 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 12, 2018, 06:24:44 PM
TAG
Post by: Caseyd on July 12, 2018, 06:31:18 PM
https://www.king5.com/mobile/article/news/research-student-climbs-tree-in-okanogan-co-to-escape-wolf-pack-helicopter-sent-in-to-rescue-her/573366846
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 12, 2018, 06:39:22 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 12, 2018, 07:08:27 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on July 12, 2018, 07:12:14 PM
On a serious note glad she was ok .
Post by: KFhunter on July 12, 2018, 07:14:50 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 12, 2018, 07:21:29 PM
Post by: Dan-o on July 12, 2018, 07:49:03 PM
How scary would that be?!?!?!?!!??!!?
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on July 12, 2018, 07:53:12 PM
Fake news there are no wolves in that area.
:yeah:
Those were just extra big coyotes according to the state wolf maps which have no wolf packs in that area.🤣
Post by: bigmacc on July 12, 2018, 08:21:00 PM
Just a matter of time before something worse happens, that area from Boulder creek north into 20 mile is infested with cougars, we saw 4 up in there along with over 20 cached cat kills. Have heard rumors from some folks I know of wolves running around in there also, a buddy of mine saw 2 black and a gray one up by Freezout pass a year ago, it won't be long before the Methow herd is just a memory. Glad the young lady is ok, with predators running rampant over there it may be a good idea to arm these folks so they at least have a fighting chance, as I said it is just a matter of time. I have told the story before but we showed a video of one to a Game guy back in the early 90,s, the dang thing was twice the size of my black lab and it came down an embankment, stood in the road facing us head on with its head down trying to stare us down. It was about 20-25 yards away and we were yelling at it, whistling and throwing rocks, it eventually just walked to the other side of the road and dropped over the side. We showed them the video and their response was "there are no wolves in the area, just a really healthy coyote". My dad who had spent as much time in Alaska as he had in Washington basically called BS, he told them he had seen hundreds of wolves in his lifetime and there was no way that was a yote, he even told them in fact that the one we videod was bigger than some of the wolves he had seen in Alaska. Where we saw that wolf in the early 90,s was about 5 miles(as the crow flyies) from where this young lady had the run in, once again, glad she is safe.
Post by: JWEBB on July 12, 2018, 09:03:33 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on July 12, 2018, 09:05:24 PM
Not buying it
Why?
Post by: JWEBB on July 12, 2018, 09:19:55 PM
Post by: Dan-o on July 12, 2018, 09:31:38 PM
First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.
The article says that when the rescue helicopter showed up, the wolves were still there.
She was treed........ Unless you think the helicopter crew id fake news.
Post by: JWEBB on July 12, 2018, 09:39:52 PM
First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.
The article says that when the rescue helicopter showed up, the wolves were still there.
She was treed........ Unless you think the helicopter crew id fake news.
Actually, the article says “ they were still there.” Doesn’t say anywhere that anyone else witnessed them surrounding her at the base of the tree. Am I missing that part?
Post by: Dan-o on July 12, 2018, 10:07:15 PM
First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.
The article says that when the rescue helicopter showed up, the wolves were still there.
She was treed........ Unless you think the helicopter crew id fake news.
Actually, the article says “ they were still there.” Doesn’t say anywhere that anyone else witnessed them surrounding her at the base of the tree. Am I missing that part?
I guess if the wolves were still after she called and they dispatched a rescue helicopter.......... I'd have been up a tree, too!
I mean, if I had a pack of wolves persistently following me and I could get up a tree, that is where you'd find me. :-)
Post by: huntnfmly on July 12, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Oh jwebb you are a funny man kinda splitting hairs don't you think?First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.
The article says that when the rescue helicopter showed up, the wolves were still there.
She was treed........ Unless you think the helicopter crew id fake news.
Actually, the article says “ they were still there.” Doesn’t say anywhere that anyone else witnessed them surrounding her at the base of the tree. Am I missing that part?
Post by: TommyH on July 12, 2018, 10:10:19 PM
First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.
The article says that when the rescue helicopter showed up, the wolves were still there.
She was treed........ Unless you think the helicopter crew id fake news.
Actually, the article says “ they were still there.” Doesn’t say anywhere that anyone else witnessed them surrounding her at the base of the tree. Am I missing that part?
WTH do you think they were still there for? They had her treed. They had a human meal planned...
Post by: JWEBB on July 12, 2018, 10:13:20 PM
Oh jwebb you are a funny man kinda splitting hairs don't you think?First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.
The article says that when the rescue helicopter showed up, the wolves were still there.
She was treed........ Unless you think the helicopter crew id fake news.
Actually, the article says “ they were still there.” Doesn’t say anywhere that anyone else witnessed them surrounding her at the base of the tree. Am I missing that part?
:chuckle: You may be right. I think into things to deep sometimes
Post by: JWEBB on July 12, 2018, 10:15:35 PM
First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.
The article says that when the rescue helicopter showed up, the wolves were still there.
She was treed........ Unless you think the helicopter crew id fake news.
Actually, the article says “ they were still there.” Doesn’t say anywhere that anyone else witnessed them surrounding her at the base of the tree. Am I missing that part?
WTH do you think they were still there for? They had her treed. They had a human meal planned...
Were you there? Apparently so. Wow it baffles me how some people believe everything they read
Post by: JWEBB on July 12, 2018, 10:21:09 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 12, 2018, 10:26:47 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 12, 2018, 10:56:40 PM
Post by: Mudman on July 12, 2018, 10:57:46 PM
Post by: buglebrush on July 12, 2018, 11:03:47 PM
https://www.facebook.com/492303567448231/posts/2303061849705718/
Post by: KFhunter on July 12, 2018, 11:09:07 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 13, 2018, 05:47:32 AM
Post by: Dick in the Dirt on July 13, 2018, 05:57:43 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 05:57:50 AM
Doesn't surprise me and I don't doubt this will become more common. Also doesn't surprise me that some of the hugging moderators try to down play this.
Riiiight.
I’m going to predict very strong odds of it happening again during the week of August 5th, possibly in the Teanaway.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180713/b81dc34b47992177aca27cbc583b50e5.png)
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2018, 06:42:30 AM
First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.
Your experience of wolves doesn't reflect their historic patterns across the globe. Worldwide, the pattern of wolves is unmistakable. In countries, especially those which have disarmed their populus, where wolves have not learned to fear humans, wolves get closer to the people until they eventually start attacking them. Look at the patterns in Siberia, where about every 30 years, military teams are tasked with removing packs that have habituated to surviving off human garbage, livestock, and pets, eventually move on to human prey. These patterns are repeated is Kazakhstan, Iran, Scandinavia. Even northern Ontario is having huge problems with wolves decimating the domestic caribou herds and human/wolf contact is growing. It's been almost 20 years that wolves have lived unmolested in WA and it won't be long before they start attacking people. I'm not looking forward to it but it will happen until we start killing them and showing them that interacting with humans is dangerous. Delisting wolves in WA is way past due.
Post by: outdooraddict on July 13, 2018, 06:48:03 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 13, 2018, 06:49:25 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on July 13, 2018, 06:51:03 AM
Doesn't surprise me and I don't doubt this will become more common. Also doesn't surprise me that some of the hugging moderators try to down play this.
Riiiight.
I’m going to predict very strong odds of it happening again during the week of August 5th, possibly in the Teanaway.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180713/b81dc34b47992177aca27cbc583b50e5.png)
What the heck makes that worth a thousand bucks? Maybe I'll put together a wolf tracking class for 750. Who is even going to sign up for that?
Post by: huntnfmly on July 13, 2018, 06:51:26 AM
You can look it up and read for yourself😆
Post by: idahohuntr on July 13, 2018, 07:03:27 AM
I just saw a post on the Facebook calling it a “wolf attack.” Seemed like a stretch to me. Who knows if they had her “treed” or if she saw the wolves and climbed a tree while simultaneously peeing herself. I’ve seen enough “grizzly bear encounters” which are actually blond or cinnamon phase black bear encounters to know that sometimes things get blown out of proportion, especially on social media.:yeah:
Glad she's ok...but not a lot of details about what transpired.
The article mentioned something about deputies being "authorized" to shoot the wolves. News flash...ANY animal threatening your or another persons life can be killed by any of us...there is no permission or "authorization" needed from anyone else. :twocents:
Post by: Pegasus on July 13, 2018, 07:09:41 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 13, 2018, 07:38:04 AM
Post by: Curly on July 13, 2018, 07:59:36 AM
It's been almost 20 years that wolves have lived unmolested in WA and it won't be long before they start attacking people.
Well said (as usual Pman) but just to correct/clarify one thing: It's been longer than 20 years that wolves have gone unmolested in WA.
Wolves have definitely been in the state for almost 30 years now (maybe longer). I saw a pack back in 1991. And that pack was known to exist by WDFW since they had warning signs posted near trail-heads. So, they've had a long time to hang out and not be shot or trapped or otherwise molested.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2018, 08:30:38 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 08:42:12 AM
I just saw a post on the Facebook calling it a “wolf attack.” Seemed like a stretch to me. Who knows if they had her “treed” or if she saw the wolves and climbed a tree while simultaneously peeing herself. I’ve seen enough “grizzly bear encounters” which are actually blond or cinnamon phase black bear encounters to know that sometimes things get blown out of proportion, especially on social media.:yeah:
Glad she's ok...but not a lot of details about what transpired.
The article mentioned something about deputies being "authorized" to shoot the wolves. News flash...ANY animal threatening your or another persons life can be killed by any of us...there is no permission or "authorization" needed from anyone else. :twocents:
...media dramatization...
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 08:45:32 AM
Doesn't surprise me and I don't doubt this will become more common. Also doesn't surprise me that some of the hugging moderators try to down play this.
Riiiight.
I’m going to predict very strong odds of it happening again during the week of August 5th, possibly in the Teanaway.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180713/b81dc34b47992177aca27cbc583b50e5.png)
What the heck makes that worth a thousand bucks? Maybe I'll put together a wolf tracking class for 750. Who is even going to sign up for that?
Wilderness Awareness School is in Duvall. It's a group of hippies teaching classes on how to be hippies, preferably without shoes. I see multiple people each year moving to Duvall to attend the school.
https://www.wildernessawareness.org/about/about
Here's the wolf class info. There was a map at one point, but I can't find it now. I believe the class will take place in the Teanaway area.
https://wildernessawareness.org/adult-programs/wolf-tracking-expedition
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2018, 08:48:12 AM
Post by: mdbuck5x5 on July 13, 2018, 09:13:12 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2018, 09:21:23 AM
Post by: PA BEN on July 13, 2018, 09:24:30 AM
First of all it may be true. I have no idea I wasn’t there. It just seems a little far fetched. In my opinion I bet she ran into the wolves and got scared so she climbed a tree. When she radioed for help she probably told them she was surrounded so she wouldn’t look like an idiot. But again just my thoughts. I have personally come across wolves many times and they have never showed any aggression.I've personally have come across a lot of coyotes, loners and in packs and have never have had one come after me. Until Monday this week when one loner chased me at least a 1/2 on my MT. Bike. https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,229009.0.html
Post by: Cougartail on July 13, 2018, 09:45:22 AM
Having been around Brown Bears dozens of times I'm sure I wouldn't have been nearly as excited as this young lady. Just because creatures have no fear of you is a far cry from attacking you.
Carry on..lol
Post by: longashes on July 13, 2018, 09:50:40 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 10:15:11 AM
Some people are naturally suspicious of the press. Some people refuse to believe that the cuddly wolf is a danger to man at all. I believe you're seeing a mixture of those being played out here.
And some believe the wolves are going to eat their faces every time they step out the door.
Just curious why is this story a dramatization or fabricated? Any proof of that? I don't believe everything I read but I also don't discredit them either off a guess! :twocents:
The dramatization I was speficially mentioning was that the media highlighted the part about law enforcement officers headed to the scene were authorized to shoot to kill. They were headed to a potential wolf attack on a human. Of course they're authorized to shoot to kill.
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 10:16:14 AM
I'm sure if it was me there the story would be.. "A pack of curious wolves did a half circle around me then left into the forest".
Having been around Brown Bears dozens of times I'm sure I wouldn't have been nearly as excited as this young lady. Just because creatures have no fear of you is a far cry from attacking you.
Carry on..lol
Be careful...that's pretty much exactly where I'm at, but they're referring to me as a cuddly wolf hugging moderator.
Post by: walt on July 13, 2018, 10:28:36 AM
Post by: bobcat on July 13, 2018, 10:30:40 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2018, 10:42:31 AM
Some people are naturally suspicious of the press. Some people refuse to believe that the cuddly wolf is a danger to man at all. I believe you're seeing a mixture of those being played out here.
And some believe the wolves are going to eat your face every time they step out the door.Just curious why is this story a dramatization or fabricated? Any proof of that? I don't believe everything I read but I also don't discredit them either off a guess! :twocents:
The dramatization I was speficially mentioning was that the media highlighted the part about law enforcement officers headed to the scene were authorized to shoot to kill. They were headed to a potential wolf attack on a human. Of course they're authorized to shoot to kill.
I don't believe wolves are going to eat my face every time I step out the door. But I do know that their patterns of predation are very predictable and when they have no fear of humans they continually come closer and closer, taking advantage of what the humans supply, to eventually, the humans themselves. There are quite a few accounts of whole Siberian towns being besieged by packs of wolves which knew no fear of humans. Dozens of recorded deaths and many attacks. Do some reading. If we don't manage these predators, they will end up managing us.
Post by: cbond3318 on July 13, 2018, 10:43:24 AM
I'm sure if it was me there the story would be.. "A pack of curious wolves did a half circle around me then left into the forest".
Having been around Brown Bears dozens of times I'm sure I wouldn't have been nearly as excited as this young lady. Just because creatures have no fear of you is a far cry from attacking you.
Carry on..lol
:yeah:
I am glad she is OK and just frightened. Not much to go on in the story but, it has been my observation a large majority of people mistake Wolves, Wolf encounters, Wolf behavior, Wolf anything. It seem as though now that the population is aware they are here, everything is a Wolf and everything to do with them is in direct threat to their lives. I stopped counting all the pictures of Malimutes posted with a lengthy debate on Wolf or not. :chuckle:
I dont doubt these were wolves, I just have a tendency to feel the actual encounter may have been a little less dramatic.
Also, in the twisted world of perception, isn't a dramatized media story portraying wolves as a calcualted human hunter a good thing?
Again, glad she is ok.
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 10:53:43 AM
Some people are naturally suspicious of the press. Some people refuse to believe that the cuddly wolf is a danger to man at all. I believe you're seeing a mixture of those being played out here.
And some believe the wolves are going to eat your face every time they step out the door.Just curious why is this story a dramatization or fabricated? Any proof of that? I don't believe everything I read but I also don't discredit them either off a guess! :twocents:
The dramatization I was speficially mentioning was that the media highlighted the part about law enforcement officers headed to the scene were authorized to shoot to kill. They were headed to a potential wolf attack on a human. Of course they're authorized to shoot to kill.
I don't believe wolves are going to eat my face every time I step out the door. But I do know that their patterns of predation are very predictable and when they have no fear of humans they continually come closer and closer, taking advantage of what the humans supply, to eventually, the humans themselves. There are quite a few accounts of whole Siberian towns being besieged by packs of wolves which knew no fear of humans. Dozens of recorded deaths and many attacks. Do some reading. If we don't manage these predators, they will end up managing us.
I've read and educated myself on all of that stuff. This is not Siberia though...and I'm comfortable assuming it never will be. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident in my opinion of that situation moving forward.
Post by: elkboy on July 13, 2018, 10:56:25 AM
Post by: wolfbait on July 13, 2018, 10:59:44 AM
Just like one of the wolf packs that had been reported to WDFW for several years, and the only wolf pack that was confirmed for several years. A rural citizen called the WSP and reported a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop, and the frauds at WDFW had to confirm the "first wolf pack in 70 years".
There have been several wolf/human conflicts, if it is a situation where WDFW has control over the information it goes unreported.
Just one of many:Remember the wolf attack up in the Pasayten Wilderness where the guy shot a wolf that was attacking him? No charges filed and the story disappeared just like the deer herds.
I always advise people to pack everywhere they go, especially if they are away from their rig or home. Not just for wolves but cougars and bears that WDF&wolves are protecting.
By now most people realize who the pro-wolf people on H-W are, you need to realize they are like MSM, just another arm of WDF&wolves and the fake environmental groups. I actually have more respect for WDF&wolves then the pro-wolfers on H-W.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 13, 2018, 11:02:25 AM
Post by: Cougartail on July 13, 2018, 11:03:36 AM
But I do know that their patterns of predation are very predictable and when they have no fear of humans they continually come closer and closer, taking advantage of what the humans supply, to eventually, the humans themselves.
I've read and educated myself on all of that stuff. This is not Siberia though...and I'm comfortable assuming it never will be. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident in my opinion of that situation moving forward.
[/quote]
Historically wolves did move closer to humans and were domesticated.. thus the modern dog. And yes occasionally dogs attack humans. If you are worried about wolf attacks you should be very worried about dog attacks!
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2018, 11:34:12 AM
But I do know that their patterns of predation are very predictable and when they have no fear of humans they continually come closer and closer, taking advantage of what the humans supply, to eventually, the humans themselves.
I've read and educated myself on all of that stuff. This is not Siberia though...and I'm comfortable assuming it never will be. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident in my opinion of that situation moving forward.
Historically wolves did move closer to humans and were domesticated.. thus the modern dog. And yes occasionally dogs attack humans. If you are worried about wolf attacks you should be very worried about dog attacks!
[/quote]
The wolvers don't know where they live. They only know where they're safe to forage and hunt, which is anywhere in WA. You've always played down the danger of this additional apex predator to WA. Cougars kill more ungulates. Wolves won't hurt us. Dogs are dangerous. I'm not sure of your motivation to continually redirect attention away from the damage they're doing and the danger they present, but it's very obvious that you do it. You're willing to put people at ease and at risk to continue this fairy tale about the cuddly creatures. They DO add to predation on our ungulates. They ARE aggressive and will eventually hurt us. They ARE infested with parasites which can be transferred to humans and other animals.They DON'T belong on our landscape, especially in their diseased and uncontrolled state. If you really believe the fairy tales, you're naive. If you know the truth and won't tell it, your negligent. I'm done. Have a nice day.
Post by: nwwanderer on July 13, 2018, 11:57:34 AM
Post by: yakimanoob on July 13, 2018, 12:08:42 PM
That's top notch peanut gallery work, fellas. :chuckle:
Post by: SkookumHntr on July 13, 2018, 12:28:40 PM
Post by: wolfbait on July 13, 2018, 12:29:21 PM
But I do know that their patterns of predation are very predictable and when they have no fear of humans they continually come closer and closer, taking advantage of what the humans supply, to eventually, the humans themselves.
I've read and educated myself on all of that stuff. This is not Siberia though...and I'm comfortable assuming it never will be. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident in my opinion of that situation moving forward.
Historically wolves did move closer to humans and were domesticated.. thus the modern dog. And yes occasionally dogs attack humans. If you are worried about wolf attacks you should be very worried about dog attacks!
The wolvers don't know where they live. They only know where they're safe to forage and hunt, which is anywhere in WA. You've always played down the danger of this additional apex predator to WA. Cougars kill more ungulates. Wolves won't hurt us. Dogs are dangerous. I'm not sure of your motivation to continually redirect attention away from the damage they're doing and the danger they present, but it's very obvious that you do it. You're willing to put people at ease and at risk to continue this fairy tale about the cuddly creatures. They DO add to predation on our ungulates. They ARE aggressive and will eventually hurt us. They ARE infested with parasites which can be transferred to humans and other animals.They DON'T belong on our landscape, especially in their diseased and uncontrolled state. If you really believe the fairy tales, you're naive. If you know the truth and won't tell it, your negligent. I'm done. Have a nice day.
[/quote]
Well Said P-man :tup:
Post by: boneaddict on July 13, 2018, 12:43:24 PM
98 % of you haven't even seen a real wolf, speculate away.
Glad she is ok.
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 13, 2018, 12:46:05 PM
Seeing a wolf is one thing, being followed, tracked, or approached by a wolf is another thing. Being hunted by a wolf or wolves is a whole new situation and being attacked, well....
98 % of you haven't even seen a real wolf, speculate away.
Glad she is ok.
:yeah:
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 13, 2018, 12:46:25 PM
Seeing a wolf is one thing, being followed, tracked, or approached by a wolf is another thing. Being hunted by a wolf or wolves is a whole new situation and being attacked, well....
98 % of you haven't even seen a real wolf, speculate away.
Glad she is ok.
Now Bone aren't you being a little hard on the Beav? :chuckle:
One of the classic lines from Leave it to Beaver. With a twist.
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 13, 2018, 01:02:19 PM
We've also witnessed loud barking and multiple bluff charges on myself, my wife and her leashed dogs and these were grown ass wolves. Had there not been another person and three dogs with me, I was at the Run Up the Tree point. Naturally, I imagine having the dogs is what was triggering the predation attempts. Those animals were trying to separate something from the group which contained two yelling humans and they did not care.
There are multiple, multiple eye-witness accounts on this site about aggressive acts committed by wolves. Some of which included the firing of shots.
I'm sure those were coyotes, or really we just saw them, they were charging and howling and growling from 50 yards because they are more afraid of us than we are of them. Some of you guys are clowning
Post by: elkboy on July 13, 2018, 01:05:12 PM
A few more details.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 13, 2018, 01:09:12 PM
Seeing a wolf is one thing, being followed, tracked, or approached by a wolf is another thing. Being hunted by a wolf or wolves is a whole new situation and being attacked, well....
98 % of you haven't even seen a real wolf, speculate away.
Glad she is ok.
I've personally seen 7. They never ran away when seen by me either. The closet one I saw was less than 100 yards from me and could of cared less about me..
Post by: bearpaw on July 13, 2018, 01:10:37 PM
A good friend was treed by wolves in bow season a few years ago, I wrote about that on this forum, he had to wait till they left after a few hours.
One of my neighbors was elk hunting and had glimpses of wolves skirting him, he heard a noise and turned just in time to shoot a wolf in mid air from the hip, that was confirmed by WDFW, he got a piece of meat and bone out of that wolf but WDFW didn't find a dead wolf.
Post by: Curly on July 13, 2018, 01:43:58 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/14/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/
A few more details.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/13/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/
Your link didn't work for me. So I did a search on that site and found it. Weird.........
Post by: bigmacc on July 13, 2018, 03:33:13 PM
Seeing a wolf is one thing, being followed, tracked, or approached by a wolf is another thing. Being hunted by a wolf or wolves is a whole new situation and being attacked, well....
98 % of you haven't even seen a real wolf, speculate away.
Glad she is ok.
:yeah:
When my dad was young working up in Alaska during his summers he did a lot of fishing on some of the rivers on his days off, my great grandpa would send an eskimo friend of his to watch over my dad while he fished(my dad was in his early teens at the time). My dad and Charley would head out on foot and put miles on walking and fishing the rivers, Charley would pack a 300HandH and a 44 mag while dad and his buddies fished. My dad tells many stories of encounters with bear, moose and wolves. He said wolves were the scariest to spot or encounter because of their intelligence, if you seen one there may be 10 more you don't see. They work together to make the kill and when one was spotted it made the hair on Charleys neck stand. My dad said many times they would spot one only to have it show up later in a different spot just watching or trailing them, my dad said many were shot and killed on those fishing trips and Charley would say "10 others just seen that one die, they are smart, they will learn"
Post by: PA BEN on July 13, 2018, 03:35:56 PM
Post by: wolfbait on July 13, 2018, 04:47:41 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/14/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/
A few more details.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/13/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/
Your link didn't work for me. So I did a search on that site and found it. Weird.........
After reading the BS WDFW and the USFWS report to the news, I would rather hear her story one on one.
The Loup Loup pack has been given the same reputation as the Lookout pack, they can be in many places at the same time.
Now every time a human/wolf incidence happens a wolf den will magically appear some where close by.
Post by: bigmacc on July 13, 2018, 05:14:04 PM
I,m no conspiracy type, BUT I agree there is a lot more wolves in the Methow than they are admitting to, along with cougars, thats why this herd is just a memory of what it once was and if something isn't done the next encounter may not end so well. More and more people are using the valley for recreation, biking, hunting, fishing, snowshoeing, cross country skiing. Between the cougars and wolves, some bad things are going to happen eventually. These encounters, sightings, the depletion of the largest mule deer herd in the state to a fraction of what it once was are shots over the bow by these predators. When bad things do happen someone is going to need to be held accountable if there is or has been deception. Bottom line, admit there is a predator problem and do something about the problem before the "real" bad things start to happen.... Once again, glad the young lady is ok, being out there by herself and unarmed, VERY LUCKY!
Post by: mdbuck5x5 on July 13, 2018, 05:15:01 PM
Some people are naturally suspicious of the press. Some people refuse to believe that the cuddly wolf is a danger to man at all. I believe you're seeing a mixture of those being played out here.
And some believe the wolves are going to eat their faces every time they step out the door.Just curious why is this story a dramatization or fabricated? Any proof of that? I don't believe everything I read but I also don't discredit them either off a guess! :twocents:
The dramatization I was speficially mentioning was that the media highlighted the part about law enforcement officers headed to the scene were authorized to shoot to kill. They were headed to a potential wolf attack on a human. Of course they're authorized to shoot to kill.
Look I don't know if you're pro wolf, anti wolf or whatever and I don't care but i do find it rather comical that you discredited this story because you read it on social media! That's all.
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 13, 2018, 06:00:40 PM
:chuckle:
Post by: cbond3318 on July 13, 2018, 06:11:39 PM
and “if anyone disagrees with that they should never post again.”
:chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on July 13, 2018, 06:19:57 PM
My guides and their dogs have been skirted many times for several miles coming out with the hounds, scares the dickens out of you and your dogs when wolves are howling and barking and skirting you for a long distance, especially if it's after dark. We've been very lucky, no hounds eaten yet and no actual attacks yet.
A good friend was treed by wolves in bow season a few years ago, I wrote about that on this forum, he had to wait till they left after a few hours.
One of my neighbors was elk hunting and had glimpses of wolves skirting him, he heard a noise and turned just in time to shoot a wolf in mid air from the hip, that was confirmed by WDFW, he got a piece of meat and bone out of that wolf but WDFW didn't find a dead wolf.
I know of those stories and a few more that aren't public. Those that think the DNR girl was over reacting maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. We know the wolves were still in the area until the helicopter landed and then they finally they scattered according to the article...the helicopter landed..not as it was circling overhead looking for a landing zone but actually landing..think on that.
wolves won't always zone in on you and challenge you, until the day that they do. I've been followed for days myself and never had an issue, didn't howl at me or challenge me, it eas hard to even tell they were following me around but I made a game of kicking gopher mounds and seeing what stepped in the fresh dirt in the last 30 minutes or so, but that doesn't mean they won't act differently or trigger on me if I get to close to a den or kill site, or find them with empty bellies, or whatever it is that makes them target me or you, or the DNR girl. She was near a campsite, why did they target her specifically? We'll never know probably, just something out of the normal wolves were used to campers being in a specific area and she went out of the norm and hiked up a ways to where they were running..who knows :dunno:
I certainly wouldn't be so cocksure that because I've been around a few brown bears that I know what a pack of wolves will do from one moment to the next.
Post by: bigmacc on July 13, 2018, 06:32:14 PM
Remember, on Hunt Wa if you don’t want Wolves poisoned into extinction, you’re a wolf loving liberal begging for Socialism.
and “if anyone disagrees with that they should never post again.”
:chuckle:
Just speaking for myself here :tup: I think they were already close to extinction in the lower 48, I think a lot of folks that hunt deer, elk, moose are wondering why they are being coddled, nurtured and being brought back to the point they are depleting deer and elk herds to the point they are close to non existent, especially now days when human population is even greater and may have negative interactions with these wolves. Those of you who support or agree with wolf introduction have no issue with me, thats your deal, agree or disagree, post away , but I,m telling you, something stinks and if you are a hunter of deer, elk and moose you may want to consider that our days may be numbered to chase these animals around the mountains. Nothing to make lite of in my book, not to mention someones life was also in danger.
Post by: 4fletch on July 13, 2018, 06:43:38 PM
Post by: buglebrush on July 13, 2018, 06:44:18 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 07:17:43 PM
A friend's wife and daughter were attacked in their yard. Locked themselves in the garden until the wolves finally left. I don't have permission to post anything more than that, but it's one of three people I know personally who've encountered aggressive wolves in the past two years.
In Washington?
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 07:18:36 PM
Remember, on Hunt Wa if you don’t want Wolves poisoned into extinction, you’re a wolf loving liberal begging for Socialism.
and “if anyone disagrees with that they should never post again.”
:chuckle:
This is, in fact, a thing.
Sometimes I’m not even sure how people make it outside, never mind all the way out into the mountains.
Post by: cbond3318 on July 13, 2018, 07:24:34 PM
Remember, on Hunt Wa if you don’t want Wolves poisoned into extinction, you’re a wolf loving liberal begging for Socialism.
and “if anyone disagrees with that they should never post again.”
:chuckle:
Just speaking for myself here :tup: I think they were already close to extinction in the lower 48, I think a lot of folks that hunt deer, elk, moose are wondering why they are being coddled, nurtured and being brought back to the point they are depleting deer and elk herds to the point they are close to non existent, especially now days when human population is even greater and may have negative interactions with these wolves. Those of you who support or agree with wolf introduction have no issue with me, thats your deal, agree or disagree, post away , but I,m telling you, something stinks and if you are a hunter of deer, elk and moose you may want to consider that our days may be numbered to chase these animals around the mountains. Nothing to make lite of in my book, not to mention someones life was also in danger.
I want Wolves managed by any means necessary in Washington, , I want Spring Bear, baiting and hound hunting brought back.
I’m Glad they are not extinct in the lower 48. I don’t put any higher category of danger on Wolves than Bear, Cougar, alligator, python, rattlesnakes , wolverine, sharks, or an armed idiot in the woods.
The same know it alls labeling anyone who doesn’t sound the alarm of a Wolfpocalypse as a “Wolf lover” gets damn old.
The same chest thumpers assuming anyone who sees a wolf and thinks “hey, that’s pretty cool” is a Wolf Lover , gets damn old.
The same internet biologists that shoot down differing information, reports, studies and opinions and assume the posters are bias, gets damn old.
Glad the gal is home safe and a den site nearby explains all I need to know.
I’ll leave it at that. :tup:
Post by: Cougartail on July 13, 2018, 07:35:55 PM
I was called a liberal by some for not hating the wolf and an alt right scum for trapping wolves.. Guy can't win these days???
Post by: bigmacc on July 13, 2018, 07:41:16 PM
Remember, on Hunt Wa if you don’t want Wolves poisoned into extinction, you’re a wolf loving liberal begging for Socialism.
and “if anyone disagrees with that they should never post again.”
:chuckle:
Just speaking for myself here :tup: I think they were already close to extinction in the lower 48, I think a lot of folks that hunt deer, elk, moose are wondering why they are being coddled, nurtured and being brought back to the point they are depleting deer and elk herds to the point they are close to non existent, especially now days when human population is even greater and may have negative interactions with these wolves. Those of you who support or agree with wolf introduction have no issue with me, thats your deal, agree or disagree, post away , but I,m telling you, something stinks and if you are a hunter of deer, elk and moose you may want to consider that our days may be numbered to chase these animals around the mountains. Nothing to make lite of in my book, not to mention someones life was also in danger.
I want Wolves managed by any means necessary in Washington, , I want Spring Bear, baiting and hound hunting brought back.
I’m Glad they are not extinct in the lower 48. I don’t put any higher category of danger on Wolves than Bear, Cougar, alligator, python, rattlesnakes , wolverine, sharks, or an armed idiot in the woods.
The same know it alls labeling anyone who doesn’t sound the alarm of a Wolfpocalypse as a “Wolf lover” gets damn old.
The same chest thumpers assuming anyone who sees a wolf and thinks “hey, that’s pretty cool” is a Wolf Lover , gets damn old.
The same internet biologists that shoot down differing information, reports, studies and opinions and assume the posters are bias, gets damn old.
Glad the gal is home safe and a den site nearby explains all I need to know.
I’ll leave it at that. :tup:
:tup:..due respect.........for some that lived in a time when wolves were not cool to see, you have to see both sides, especially if you are a hunter of ungulates. I only speak for myself about stories of family members in Alaska, Montana and Idaho. I have family going back to the 1930,s in Alaska and present day in Montana and Idaho, ask any of them.....wolves are not cool to see. I understand though why some do not agree. I do agree with you about them being managed but when the powers to be see it differently is where the "toe to toe" takes place. The whole subject is a fine line with wolves, soon we will see the outcome I,m afraid :tup:
Post by: buglebrush on July 13, 2018, 07:41:50 PM
A friend's wife and daughter were attacked in their yard. Locked themselves in the garden until the wolves finally left. I don't have permission to post anything more than that, but it's one of three people I know personally who've encountered aggressive wolves in the past two years.
In Washington?
In North Idaho. Close enough.
Post by: buglebrush on July 13, 2018, 07:44:32 PM
Remember, on Hunt Wa if you don’t want Wolves poisoned into extinction, you’re a wolf loving liberal begging for Socialism.
and “if anyone disagrees with that they should never post again.”
:chuckle:
Hyperbolic statement there.
Post by: O. hemionus on July 13, 2018, 08:59:47 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/updates.php?year=2018
Post by: Bob33 on July 13, 2018, 09:05:30 PM
Some of the facts.Thanks for the link.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/updates.php?year=2018
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2018, 09:05:38 PM
A friend's wife and daughter were attacked in their yard. Locked themselves in the garden until the wolves finally left. I don't have permission to post anything more than that, but it's one of three people I know personally who've encountered aggressive wolves in the past two years.
In Washington?
In North Idaho. Close enough.
So where wolves are managed. Contrary to the belief of at least a few in this thread, this wouldn’t happen in an area where wolves are delisted and managed by the state.
Post by: JWEBB on July 13, 2018, 09:52:52 PM
Post by: Caseyd on July 13, 2018, 09:59:13 PM
What I don’t understand is why would they send an unarmed woman in the area where the wolves are to do salmon research? Seems like an idiotic idea. Maybe they should be watching their gps tracking data a little more closely
:yeah:
But I didn’t think bios can carry while working. And I’m sure an intern type employee wouldn’t be allowed to either
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 13, 2018, 09:59:58 PM
What I don’t understand is why would they send an unarmed woman in the area where the wolves are to do salmon research? Seems like an idiotic idea. Maybe they should be watching their gps tracking data a little more closely
The government agencies aren't the sharpest tool in the toolbox.
Post by: KFhunter on July 13, 2018, 10:00:48 PM
From the WDFW statements we know the wolves were collared, but salmon is on the fish side of USFWS, so may not have been in good communication about wolves from the other side dealing with game (just speculation on my part). She is a USFWS employee and not with WDFW.
Also, I find this interesting:
Quote
Stohr said it appears the researcher was close to a wolf denning site or rendezvous area, and that it is common for wolves to bark, howl, and approach people or other animals when protecting their pups. He said some initial reports stated incorrectly that the researcher was in a developed campground. In fact, the site is several miles from either a designated campground or maintained road.
So a wolf den site 2 miles from a campground is being pitched as "a long ways away, no danger to the people in the campground" but if Diamond M have a salt block 2 miles from a den site they didn't know about then its "dropping cattle on top of a denning site".
2 miles is nothing for a wolf.
Post by: JWEBB on July 13, 2018, 10:07:27 PM
What I don’t understand is why would they send an unarmed woman in the area where the wolves are to do salmon research? Seems like an idiotic idea. Maybe they should be watching their gps tracking data a little more closely
:yeah:
But I didn’t think bios can carry while working. And I’m sure an intern type employee wouldn’t be allowed to either
Yeah I’m pretty sure your right from what I’ve read. All the more reason to not put her in that area alone without a piece
Post by: KFhunter on July 13, 2018, 10:21:07 PM
Also, she used the bear spray on the wolf/s. No indication if it was use properly so we can speculate about that, but others have used it properly on wolves to no effect.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/wolf-chases-cyclist-on-alaska-highway-in-yukon-1.1393925
Quote
That's when he blasted the wolf in the face. (with bear spray)
"And he backed up about 20 feet and I thought he was going to stop," he said.
"I thought, 'What a wild story. I'm glad that's over.' Then he kept running again and came back up to the back of my bike and actually attacked the back of my bike and ended up ripping the bag that I carry my tent stakes and poles in and ripped it off the back of my bike and spilled it all over the highway."
He blasted the wolf right in the face numerous times to no effect, there's other stories and videos of wolves being sprayed with little to no effect as well.
Post by: JWEBB on July 13, 2018, 10:25:25 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 13, 2018, 10:25:42 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 14, 2018, 12:02:51 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 14, 2018, 07:00:07 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on July 14, 2018, 07:24:52 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/14/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/
A few more details.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/13/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/
Your link didn't work for me. So I did a search on that site and found it. Weird.........
The Loup Loup pack must be huge.🤔
Post by: huntnfmly on July 14, 2018, 08:18:25 AM
If these idiots need to be escorted around, maybe the person with the gun should do the work instead..I agree let her carry or have someone who does do it.
I don't quite understand why she can't carry unless that's her choice
Post by: buglebrush on July 14, 2018, 08:58:35 AM
A friend's wife and daughter were attacked in their yard. Locked themselves in the garden until the wolves finally left. I don't have permission to post anything more than that, but it's one of three people I know personally who've encountered aggressive wolves in the past two years.
In Washington?
In North Idaho. Close enough.
So where wolves are managed. Contrary to the belief of at least a few in this thread, this wouldn’t happen in an area where wolves are delisted and managed by the state.
These wolves spend plenty of time in WA, and they've only been managed for a few years now.
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 09:02:39 AM
A friend's wife and daughter were attacked in their yard. Locked themselves in the garden until the wolves finally left. I don't have permission to post anything more than that, but it's one of three people I know personally who've encountered aggressive wolves in the past two years.
In Washington?
In North Idaho. Close enough.
So where wolves are managed. Contrary to the belief of at least a few in this thread, this wouldn’t happen in an area where wolves are delisted and managed by the state.
These wolves spend plenty of time in WA, and they've only been managed for a few years now.
I fully agree with you and am definitely not trying to argue or debate anything you said. The point was made earlier that if these WA wolves were managed and hunted, they'd have a deeper fear of humans. Maybe their deeper fear of humans will have to come after more years of hunting.
Post by: Cougartail on July 14, 2018, 09:27:23 AM
A friend's wife and daughter were attacked in their yard. Locked themselves in the garden until the wolves finally left. I don't have permission to post anything more than that, but it's one of three people I know personally who've encountered aggressive wolves in the past two years.
In Washington?
In North Idaho. Close enough.
So where wolves are managed. Contrary to the belief of at least a few in this thread, this wouldn’t happen in an area where wolves are delisted and managed by the state.
These wolves spend plenty of time in WA, and they've only been managed for a few years now.
I fully agree with you and am definitely not trying to argue or debate anything you said. The point was made earlier that if these WA wolves were managed and hunted, they'd have a deeper fear of humans. Maybe their deeper fear of humans will have to come after more years of hunting.
Wolves have been hunted and trapped in Alaska for as long as man has been around and will still come into camps/villages to snack on a sled dog.
Post by: O. hemionus on July 14, 2018, 10:40:10 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/14/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/
A few more details.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/13/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/
Your link didn't work for me. So I did a search on that site and found it. Weird.........
The Loup Loup pack must be huge.🤔
I don't think that is the case. She only encountered two wolves...
Post by: nwwanderer on July 14, 2018, 11:46:10 AM
Was she ordered not to talk about it?
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 11:52:38 AM
Unverified mention of seeing two wolves, no way of knowing how many she encountered. Seeing them and number around rarely are the same.
Was she ordered not to talk about it?
Nobody knows any of the answers to your questions. That'll be the problem with this event.
Is there a legit reason why she would be ordered to not talk about it?
Post by: KFhunter on July 14, 2018, 11:53:17 AM
That would not surprise me at all, you just know the news media wanted an interview, so why isn't there any info from her? Not even a statement?...
stinks of a gag order from her bosses
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 11:56:35 AM
Legit question...genuinely curious to hear why you guys think this is a possibility. The wolves are no secret. This is an area where there are confirmed wolves. They even said the breeding male collared wolf was found to be in the area via his collar. People have wildlife encounters all the time. What's the secret?
Post by: bearpaw on July 14, 2018, 11:58:30 AM
Some of the facts.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/updates.php?year=2018
Quote
After unsuccessful attempts to scare the wolves away (including yelling, waving and deploying a can of bear spray in the direction of the wolves) the individual climbed a tree and used a radio to call for assistance.
Whenever a wolf comes close enough to deploy a can of bear spray and won't leave I would consider that something to be concerned about. I don't see it as an over reaction as some might seem to suggest. It's a known fact that wolves study prey before attacking. Range riders who help protect cattle have watched wolves watching cattle many times over a period of several years in some cases before they eventually attacked the cattle. So, I definitely do not see this as an over reaction!
A friend's wife and daughter were attacked in their yard. Locked themselves in the garden until the wolves finally left. I don't have permission to post anything more than that, but it's one of three people I know personally who've encountered aggressive wolves in the past two years.
In Washington?
In North Idaho. Close enough.
So where wolves are managed. Contrary to the belief of at least a few in this thread, this wouldn’t happen in an area where wolves are delisted and managed by the state.
These wolves spend plenty of time in WA, and they've only been managed for a few years now.
I fully agree with you and am definitely not trying to argue or debate anything you said. The point was made earlier that if these WA wolves were managed and hunted, they'd have a deeper fear of humans. Maybe their deeper fear of humans will have to come after more years of hunting.
Wolves have been hunted and trapped in Alaska for as long as man has been around and will still come into camps/villages to snack on a sled dog.
I totally agree with the thought that you can never fully remove the danger factor from all predators. But I have observed that predators that are hunted and shot at by humans are overall more fearful of humans. It would certainly seem inaccurate to suggest that all hunted wolves would never confront humans or that all non-hunted wolves would confront humans. But, I would suggest that shooting at wolves or any other predators can alter their behavior when humans are encountered again in the future. In my experience predators are much faster learners than ungulates and from what we have observed in Idaho wolves seem to be the smartest of all the big predators.
Wolves Watch & They Prey Test
Several people in the Colville area walk local county roads for exercise and have been flanked by wolves numerous times. One elderly lady is afraid to leave her house anymore. Another lady I went to school with had wolves follow her more than once. She told me the wolves were flanking her again one morning and it had her worried, then a truck came along which stopped and talked for a while, it looked like the wolves had left so she decided to keep walking. Shortly after the truck left she noticed the wolves were flanking her again. She no longer walks without a gun, she always has her pistol when she walks now. (this is in the territory of the Smackout pack and was occurring two or three years ago)
I have mentioned my neighbor who was followed by a pack of wolves (also the Smackout Pack) and then suddenly was attacked by one of the wolves, he wounded the wolf in mid air springing at him, that attack has been verified and recorded by WDFW. That wolf wasn't wanting to lick him on the face, it wanted to kill/eat him! The guy told me it literally scared the dickens out of him.
https://stevenscountycattlemen.com/2014/12/01/hunter-stalked-by-smackout-pack-wolves/
I know a rancher that grazes in the Smackout pack territory. They have a range rider who has observed the wolves watching their cattle many times over several summers when the cattle are on range. For several years there was no problem, but eventually those wolves quit watching and started attacking cattle.
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/jul/20/four-strikes-youre-out-smackout-wolf-pack-lethal-removal-authorized/
Wolf poached: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/2-wolves-shot-in-eastern-washington-poachers-feared/
Making The Connection
This year I have not heard of an incident involving the Smackout Pack. This is after the pack was following my neighbor and he shot the wolf that attacked him, this is after WDFW removed wolves that were attacking cattle, and this is after a Smackout Pack wolf was poached. Maybe it's just a coincidence? But, I think those wolves have learned to avoid humans. I'm not suggesting the Smackout Pack wont cause trouble again in the future after new pups become members of the pack, but I am saying that the history of events does suggest the Smackout Pack's habits seem to have been altered. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on July 14, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
https://stevenscountycattlemen.com/2014/12/01/hunter-stalked-by-smackout-pack-wolves/
Hunter stalked by Smackout pack wolves
A pack of wolves that have been the “poster children” for the effectiveness of non-lethal methods to deter wolves from livestock recently stalked a hunter near Smackout Road, forcing the hunter to shoot at the wolves in order to avoid being attacked. Most disturbingly, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife(WDFW) has suppressed the incident by not issuing a notice to the public about the danger of the Smackout wolf pack.
According to a written statement obtained by the Stevens County Cattlemen’s Association, the elk hunter said he was out along Smackout road on Oct. 30 when he heard something in the brush. Turning around, he saw a “black wolf skirting him” from about 15 yards away. The hunter yelled at the wolf and waved his arm to get it to leave, but the wolf “trotted out in front” of the hunter. The hunter shot in the air to try and scare it, but the wolf did not retreat and three other wolves started to close in around the hunter. The hunter backed up and then heard something coming at him. The hunter said he was “scared for his life.” As a wolf came at him, he shot at the wolf, hitting it in the shoulder. The wolf “was growling and biting its shoulder” and then went up the hill away from the man. The hunter, who has asked not to be named due to potential threats or harassment from environmental groups, said he then got on the radio to tell his hunting partners what going on and to “warn them about the pack of wolves on the ridge.” The hunter also gave the written statement to WDFW.
Stevens County Cattlemen’s Association President Scott Nielsen said the Smackout Pack has been touted by groups like Conservation Northwest to be a “success story” about how non-lethal methods can be used to deter wolves from livestock. However, the efforts are having a troubling effect.
“What we are seeing is a group of wolves that are not afraid of people; are not afraid of guns and were willing to stalk a man who is alone in the woods,” said Nielsen. “These wolves have been totally desensitized to people by the same methods that the environmental groups are saying are effective for livestock operations. What we are creating here are killers that view people as possible prey. This is a serious threat to public safety.”
Even more concerning is the fact that WDFW made no efforts to alert the public as deer season was about to open in the Stevens County area. Late deer season in the Smackout wolf pack area ran from Nov. 8-19.
“Clearly the Department doesn’t want to acknowledge the human threat caused by these wolves and is willing to sit back until something terrible happens. That is unacceptable,” said Nielsen. “If WDFW is going to ignore public safety because their management has created the problem, we need to question their management. ”
SCCA is encouraging citizens to call in any wolf attacks or encounters to the Stevens County Sheriff’s Department by calling 684-5296.
After all the hoopla of wolves coexisting this is the Smackout pack: http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/jul/20/four-strikes-youre-out-smackout-wolf-pack-lethal-removal-authorized/
Post by: gaddy on July 14, 2018, 12:02:18 PM
I'm not trying to be a wise guy when I ask this....what reason would they have for silencing her?
Legit question...genuinely curious to hear why you guys think this is a possibility. The wolves are no secret. This is an area where there are confirmed wolves. They even said the breeding male collared wolf was found to be in the area via his collar. People have wildlife encounters all the time. What's the secret?
Only reason I can think of is that the wolves were harassing a person. Doesn't fit with the whole wolves aren't a danger to humans theory. :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on July 14, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
I'm not trying to be a wise guy when I ask this....what reason would they have for silencing her?
Legit question...genuinely curious to hear why you guys think this is a possibility. The wolves are no secret. This is an area where there are confirmed wolves. They even said the breeding male collared wolf was found to be in the area via his collar. People have wildlife encounters all the time. What's the secret?
All it would take is one wolf loving boss somewhere up the chain to silence her, all federal agencies fear the news, and until forced to testify I could see them totally being silent about this.
Post by: Jpmiller on July 14, 2018, 02:01:55 PM
Are we really all that terrified of wild animals that we need to constantly be ready for a confrontation with them?
Post by: KFhunter on July 14, 2018, 02:20:17 PM
Post by: mazama on July 14, 2018, 02:22:15 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 14, 2018, 02:24:54 PM
Story was posted in Seattle times this morning,wolves below tree when helicopter showed up.
link:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/researcher-climbs-30-feet-up-a-tree-to-get-away-from-pack-of-wolves/
Rogers said when the helicopter arrived, the pilot told dispatch, “We’ve got wolves on the ground.”
This is promising:
“If these types of situations are going to become a common occurrence, we would like to be prepared for potential encounters in the future.”
IE: armed or escorted researchers, preferably in pairs.
Post by: KFhunter on July 14, 2018, 02:30:59 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 02:39:14 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 14, 2018, 02:39:21 PM
There are lots of valid reasons why "no comment" would be an appropriate response immediately following an incident like that. I'd probably say the same thing.Unverified mention of seeing two wolves, no way of knowing how many she encountered. Seeing them and number around rarely are the same.
Was she ordered not to talk about it?
Nobody knows any of the answers to your questions. That'll be the problem with this event.
Is there a legit reason why she would be ordered to not talk about it?
Post by: Miles on July 14, 2018, 02:53:17 PM
Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.
Someone from western Washington suggesting bigger government and the buddy system, all in the name of safety. Say it ain’t so. Lol
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 02:59:48 PM
Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.
Someone from western Washington suggesting bigger government and the buddy system, all in the name of safety. Say it ain’t so. Lol
Read again. I'm pretty sure I wasn't suggesting it...moreso I was saying it seemed weird to me that it wasn't implemented. Even tried to inject a little sarcasm.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 14, 2018, 03:05:42 PM
Post by: Caseyd on July 14, 2018, 03:50:38 PM
Why didn't she take a few pictures or even a video of said precious wolves she loves so much ?
I’m sure she did. Employer’s phone = employer’s photos :dunno:
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 14, 2018, 04:23:38 PM
There are lots of valid reasons why "no comment" would be an appropriate response immediately following an incident like that. I'd probably say the same thing.Unverified mention of seeing two wolves, no way of knowing how many she encountered. Seeing them and number around rarely are the same.
Was she ordered not to talk about it?
Nobody knows any of the answers to your questions. That'll be the problem with this event.
Is there a legit reason why she would be ordered to not talk about it?
What reasons would those be?
Serious question, as this just doesn't seem to be that big an event in the grand scheme of things...no apparent injuries or deaths of man or beast.
So what could possibly be the reason for not giving a full and detailed account of what happened and the response?
If this was as really as simple an incident as stated, gal got ran up or got scared and climbed a tree, called for help and help came and got her... If that is true, there really isn't anything that requires in-depth investigation/secrecy.
Post by: Bob33 on July 14, 2018, 04:28:35 PM
Maybe she was traumatized and simply wanted to be left alone.There are lots of valid reasons why "no comment" would be an appropriate response immediately following an incident like that. I'd probably say the same thing.Unverified mention of seeing two wolves, no way of knowing how many she encountered. Seeing them and number around rarely are the same.
Was she ordered not to talk about it?
Nobody knows any of the answers to your questions. That'll be the problem with this event.
Is there a legit reason why she would be ordered to not talk about it?
What reasons would those be?
Serious question, as this just doesn't seem to be that big an event in the grand scheme of things...no apparent injuries or deaths of man or beast.
So what could possibly be the reason for not giving a full and detailed account of what happened and the response?
If this was as really as simple an incident as stated, gal got ran up or got scared and climbed a tree, called for help and help came and got her... If that is true, there really isn't anything that requires in-depth investigation/secrecy.
Perhaps she violated a company policy.
Maybe she was concerned that everything she did and said would be armchair quarterbacked by people who weren't there and didn't really know what actually occurred. Not that anything like that would happen.
Post by: cbond3318 on July 14, 2018, 04:32:13 PM
Post by: Widgeondeke on July 14, 2018, 04:38:38 PM
Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.
Maybe like in the military, they can't sue the Guvmint :chuckle: for liability or stupidity
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 14, 2018, 04:42:45 PM
Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.
Sounds like she was a grad student, so she might not have been working for anybody but herself.
Post by: Cougartail on July 14, 2018, 04:49:23 PM
Something to think about? (just not for to long..)
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 05:26:09 PM
Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.
Sounds like she was a grad student, so she might not have been working for anybody but herself.
Not the case according to the USFWS.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 14, 2018, 05:37:05 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jul/13/helicopter-rescues-biologist-treed-by-wolves-in-ok/%3famp-content=amp
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 05:41:22 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 14, 2018, 05:47:25 PM
https://www.fws.gov/policy/115fw1.html
Post by: bobcat on July 14, 2018, 06:38:10 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 14, 2018, 06:40:03 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 14, 2018, 06:49:35 PM
Why didn't she take a few pictures or even a video of said precious wolves she loves so much ?
I’m sure she did. Employer’s phone = employer’s photos :dunno:
employers phone = taxpayer funded = our right to see said pictures/video because we pay for said employers wages through our taxes = FOIA
Post by: KFhunter on July 14, 2018, 06:55:41 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 14, 2018, 07:00:18 PM
do it!
You do it.........
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 08:16:50 PM
Why then is the title of this thread "DNR worker"? :dunno:
Initially the story was reported that she was a student too. It changed.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/db3b552963b4d7f098651c92a9ac769e.png)
Post by: bobcat on July 14, 2018, 08:35:06 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 14, 2018, 08:36:02 PM
Typical media, putting out stories and just making stuff up before they have all the facts.
Is that the Media or the forum? :dunno:
They used to say the ladies should refrain from going into the woods at certain times. Bears where drawn to a scent. :dunno:
Post by: Curly on July 14, 2018, 08:37:25 PM
Funny that some people jump to the conclusion that this female is some hippie, wolf loving chick. She very well could be, but there is virtually no info to be able to conclude that. She could be a hunter like the rest of us for all we know. All we know is she encountered some wolves and tried bear spray with no luck and fortunately found a tree for safety. Lucky for her, she didn't have to stay in the tree long because she fortunately
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on July 14, 2018, 08:54:48 PM
I was a seasonal USFS employee about 30+ years ago. I usually had a machete so i guess that was some protection. I am no hippie.
Funny that some people jump to the conclusion that this female is some hippie, wolf loving chick. She very well could be, but there is virtually no info to be able to conclude that. She could be a hunter like the rest of us for all we know. All we know is she encountered some wolves and tried bear spray with no luck and fortunately found a tree for safety. Lucky for her, she didn't have to stay in the tree long because she fortunately had cell coverage and the DNR fire crew was a short flight away.
:yeah:
Look at our beloved Hirsey, no hippie chick there.
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2018, 09:56:23 PM
Typical media, putting out stories and just making stuff up before they have all the facts.
Is that the Media or the forum? :dunno:
They used to say the ladies should refrain from going into the woods at certain times. Bears where drawn to a scent. :dunno:
He’s referring to the early on titles and information contained in the news articles. The forum had nothing to do with those.
Post by: JWEBB on July 14, 2018, 09:58:30 PM
Typical media, putting out stories and just making stuff up before they have all the facts.
Is that the Media or the forum? :dunno:
They used to say the ladies should refrain from going into the woods at certain times. Bears where drawn to a scent. :dunno:
He’s referring to the early on titles and information contained in the news articles. The forum had nothing to do with those.
:yeah:
Post by: O. hemionus on July 14, 2018, 11:17:41 PM
Story was posted in Seattle times this morning,wolves below tree when helicopter showed up.
link:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/researcher-climbs-30-feet-up-a-tree-to-get-away-from-pack-of-wolves/
Why then is the title of this thread "DNR worker"? :dunno:
Initially the story was reported that she was a student too. It changed.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/db3b552963b4d7f098651c92a9ac769e.png)
Good job, Spokesman, on correcting the story. Appears other news outlets aren't so interested in correcting misinformation once they print it (ref. the Seattle Times article still claiming she was a student and in a campground at the time of the encounter).
Post by: O. hemionus on July 14, 2018, 11:34:45 PM
There are lots of valid reasons why "no comment" would be an appropriate response immediately following an incident like that. I'd probably say the same thing.Unverified mention of seeing two wolves, no way of knowing how many she encountered. Seeing them and number around rarely are the same.
Was she ordered not to talk about it?
Nobody knows any of the answers to your questions. That'll be the problem with this event.
Is there a legit reason why she would be ordered to not talk about it?
:yeah:
In a world where even stating one's opinion on wolves could elicit death threats, I'm glad the woman's name was not released in these news stories. I can't imagine the flack she would get from all sides. There is a reason HB 1465 passed to protect the identities of livestock producers and public employees involved in most wolf-related issues.
Post by: wolfbait on July 15, 2018, 07:10:01 AM
Last year about this time we were running wolves off of does with fawns. I have never seen so many mule deer down low in the valley floor as this year. They are having fawns along the highways and county roads and in town, and of course the fawns etc. are being turned into road kill.
With the several other close calls that have been covered up by the USFWS and WDFW, and with so few deer left, I would imagine the cover-up team will become very busy, I wonder will roads and other areas be closed off to protect the wolves/people, and how many dens can magically appear at such attacks.
The USFWS and WDFW are going to need to come out with a new story as to why the wolves are so aggressive towards people “all of a sudden".
Post by: bigtex on July 15, 2018, 07:21:16 AM
Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.So what do you want to do; double the staffing so they can have a "buddy system setup" or cut the productivity in half so they can have a "buddy system setup"?
Post by: Miles on July 15, 2018, 07:36:34 AM
Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.So what do you want to do; double the staffing so they can have a "buddy system setup" or cut the productivity in half so they can have a "buddy system setup"?
I made a comment on his quote as well. Apparently we are confused as to what he meant (see his response a couple pages back). I read it the same way you just did.
Post by: TommyH on July 15, 2018, 07:55:40 AM
Or allow forestry employees to carry and have the ability to protect themselves in situations like this.
Post by: bigtex on July 15, 2018, 07:59:50 AM
Thanks just read that.I made a comment on his quote as well. Apparently we are confused as to what he meant (see his response a couple pages back). I read it the same way you just did.Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.So what do you want to do; double the staffing so they can have a "buddy system setup" or cut the productivity in half so they can have a "buddy system setup"?
Post by: Special T on July 15, 2018, 08:25:19 AM
Freedom of information act opportunity.Why didn't she take a few pictures or even a video of said precious wolves she loves so much ?
I’m sure she did. Employer’s phone = employer’s photos :dunno:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: bigtex on July 15, 2018, 08:30:50 AM
You're assuming she had a government phone. Not all land management agency employees get government phones, especially the lower on the totem pole they are, or if they spend most of their time out of cell service.employers phone = taxpayer funded = our right to see said pictures/video because we pay for said employers wages through our taxes = FOIAWhy didn't she take a few pictures or even a video of said precious wolves she loves so much ?I’m sure she did. Employer’s phone = employer’s photos :dunno:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 15, 2018, 08:43:40 AM
employers phone = taxpayer funded = our right to see said pictures/video because we pay for said employers wages through our taxes = FOIAWhy didn't she take a few pictures or even a video of said precious wolves she loves so much ?I’m sure she did. Employer’s phone = employer’s photos :dunno:
No pictures, it didn't happen... :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on July 15, 2018, 09:13:37 AM
Good lord, guys. I thought it was pretty clear I wasn’t suggesting anything. I said I was surprised to see a single person working alone. That’s all. There was nothing hidden in my words or implied as much as I feel like you think or wish there was. Fortunately it’s not my job to figure out how to handle stuff like this moving forward.Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.So what do you want to do; double the staffing so they can have a "buddy system setup" or cut the productivity in half so they can have a "buddy system setup"?
I made a comment on his quote as well. Apparently we are confused as to what he meant (see his response a couple pages back). I read it the same way you just did.
What do you all suggest? Let them carry? Great idea. Let them have some sort of protection if they’re going to be alone? Perfect.
And Miles, I’m as much from anywhere, Washington as you are. So don’t call it a western Washington thing.
Post by: jackelope on July 15, 2018, 09:42:47 AM
Post by: papaonthemountain on July 15, 2018, 10:15:10 AM
Here is another account of the incident that provides some interesting behind the scenes details concerning interaction between Deputy Brown and USFWS employee Kurz from someone who appears to be familiar with the helicopter crew.
Steve McLaughlin- Protecting the Public Trust
July 13 at 6:58 PM ·
OKANOGAN WOLF INCIDENT UPDATE
On July 12, a forest service worker conducting a watershed study was surrounded and was forced to evade a wolfpack by climbing a tree.
Update:
1. A WA Department of Natural Resources Helicopter was dispatched to the scene by the NE Washington Inter-Agency Communications Center in Colville.
2. WDFW told the helicopter crew to stand down. In the interest of public safety, the crew continued on their mission and effected the rescue of the FS employee. Upon arrival at the scene, the flight crew spotted several wolves surrounded the tree where the FS employee was taking refuge. OKANOGAN COUNTY DEPUTIES WERE NOT PRESENT DURING THE RESCUE.
3. Lethal removal of wolves was authorized by the Okanogan County Sheriff's Incident Commander. This call was supported by Sheriff Rogers. NO WOLVES WERE KILLED.
4. Okanogan County Chief Criminal Deputy Steve Brown launched an investigation to determine if wolves in the area of Tiffany Springs could pose a threat to the public.
5. On 13 July, Deputy Brown and a team of investigators drove to the scene and began to proceed to the scene of the incident. Enroute to the incident, the investigation team encountered USFWS Biologist, Gregg Kurz and WDFW wolf specialist, Benjamin Maletzke. A conversation ensued. When asked, KURZ told Deputy Brown that the girl would not provide her name for security reasons. Deputies are still trying to get her name for investigative purposes and I will not provide her name for her own safety. KURZ also said the employee did not flee, but instead deployed repellent. KURZ said the employee was ineffective, so she climbed a tree to evade the threat. KURZ also informed Deputy Brown that the scene of the incident was actually a wolf rendezvous site.
6. KURZ also informed Deputy Brown that if he proceeded to the site, he would be charged with interfering with a federally protected species. Deputy Brown told KURZ that he faced arrest for impeding an active investigation. Deputy Brown and team proceeded about 1 mile to the incident scene.
7. While enroute to the scene, deputies located game cameras and a well cut trail to the site. During the conversation w/ KURZ, deputies were informed that the route to the incident was quite a distance away and there was significant deadfall along the route, contrary to what deputies found.
OPINIONS:
1. Many thanks to my friend Commissioner Franz for the use of the helicopter and aircrew as well as affecting the rescue!
2. WDFW showed incredibly poor judgment in calling on the helicopter crew to stand down when human life was threatened. the flight crew deserves a reward for their actions
3. OKSO deputies were correct in their decision to exercise lethal control if it was necessary as this was a rescue situation from threatening wolves. I encourage those reading this to see my previous post on the stages of habituation to human activity. The Sheriff's office had the authority to act, the duty to act, and they were correct in their decisions.
5. KURZ and MALETZKE impeded an official investigation and lied during questioning to a deputy (Chief Criminal Deputy Brown) by not providing the name of the FS employee, by failing to provide information about wolf presence during the rescue, by lying to Deputy Brown about the distance to the scene and the condition of the route.
COMMENTS:
1. WDFW MUST stop the lying and withholding of information to the public about wolf presence. WDFW is creating A PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE FOR WDFW and USFWS. In the wolf management plan, the WDFW will partner with ranchers and the public to minimize wolf/human/livestock conflict. Clearly the partnership is broken because the department is not acting in good faith. Each partner should act in a manner that contributes the the success of the other partner!.
2. My comment stands about the need to remove the WDFW conflict specialist for failing to act and for calling the FS employee "Stupid!"
I'm certain there is more to follow. We'll see how truthful WDFW really is.....or isn't!
Post by: trophyhunt on July 15, 2018, 10:26:32 AM
Post by: Special T on July 15, 2018, 10:41:26 AM
Do you have a link for this?
Here is another account of the incident that provides some interesting behind the scenes details concerning interaction between Deputy Brown and USFWS employee Kurz from someone who appears to be familiar with the helicopter crew.
Steve McLaughlin- Protecting the Public Trust
July 13 at 6:58 PM ·
OKANOGAN WOLF INCIDENT UPDATE
On July 12, a forest service worker conducting a watershed study was surrounded and was forced to evade a wolfpack by climbing a tree.
Update:
1. A WA Department of Natural Resources Helicopter was dispatched to the scene by the NE Washington Inter-Agency Communications Center in Colville.
2. WDFW told the helicopter crew to stand down. In the interest of public safety, the crew continued on their mission and effected the rescue of the FS employee. Upon arrival at the scene, the flight crew spotted several wolves surrounded the tree where the FS employee was taking refuge. OKANOGAN COUNTY DEPUTIES WERE NOT PRESENT DURING THE RESCUE.
3. Lethal removal of wolves was authorized by the Okanogan County Sheriff's Incident Commander. This call was supported by Sheriff Rogers. NO WOLVES WERE KILLED.
4. Okanogan County Chief Criminal Deputy Steve Brown launched an investigation to determine if wolves in the area of Tiffany Springs could pose a threat to the public.
5. On 13 July, Deputy Brown and a team of investigators drove to the scene and began to proceed to the scene of the incident. Enroute to the incident, the investigation team encountered USFWS Biologist, Gregg Kurz and WDFW wolf specialist, Benjamin Maletzke. A conversation ensued. When asked, KURZ told Deputy Brown that the girl would not provide her name for security reasons. Deputies are still trying to get her name for investigative purposes and I will not provide her name for her own safety. KURZ also said the employee did not flee, but instead deployed repellent. KURZ said the employee was ineffective, so she climbed a tree to evade the threat. KURZ also informed Deputy Brown that the scene of the incident was actually a wolf rendezvous site.
6. KURZ also informed Deputy Brown that if he proceeded to the site, he would be charged with interfering with a federally protected species. Deputy Brown told KURZ that he faced arrest for impeding an active investigation. Deputy Brown and team proceeded about 1 mile to the incident scene.
7. While enroute to the scene, deputies located game cameras and a well cut trail to the site. During the conversation w/ KURZ, deputies were informed that the route to the incident was quite a distance away and there was significant deadfall along the route, contrary to what deputies found.
OPINIONS:
1. Many thanks to my friend Commissioner Franz for the use of the helicopter and aircrew as well as affecting the rescue!
2. WDFW showed incredibly poor judgment in calling on the helicopter crew to stand down when human life was threatened. the flight crew deserves a reward for their actions
3. OKSO deputies were correct in their decision to exercise lethal control if it was necessary as this was a rescue situation from threatening wolves. I encourage those reading this to see my previous post on the stages of habituation to human activity. The Sheriff's office had the authority to act, the duty to act, and they were correct in their decisions.
5. KURZ and MALETZKE impeded an official investigation and lied during questioning to a deputy (Chief Criminal Deputy Brown) by not providing the name of the FS employee, by failing to provide information about wolf presence during the rescue, by lying to Deputy Brown about the distance to the scene and the condition of the route.
COMMENTS:
1. WDFW MUST stop the lying and withholding of information to the public about wolf presence. WDFW is creating A PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE FOR WDFW and USFWS. In the wolf management plan, the WDFW will partner with ranchers and the public to minimize wolf/human/livestock conflict. Clearly the partnership is broken because the department is not acting in good faith. Each partner should act in a manner that contributes the the success of the other partner!.
2. My comment stands about the need to remove the WDFW conflict specialist for failing to act and for calling the FS employee "Stupid!"
I'm certain there is more to follow. We'll see how truthful WDFW really is.....or isn't!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 15, 2018, 10:58:10 AM
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcLaughlin4lands/posts/1872262686145222
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 15, 2018, 11:25:53 AM
I'm sure feel for you guys and gals..............
Post by: trophyhunt on July 15, 2018, 11:46:08 AM
Post by: Caseyd on July 15, 2018, 11:58:21 AM
Brown is not the sheriff and all indications point to he won’t be sheriff come fall.
Post by: jackelope on July 15, 2018, 12:40:17 PM
:dunno:
Post by: dontgetcrabs on July 15, 2018, 12:43:22 PM
I still don’t get why everyone seems to be making a big deal about the officers having the approval to shoot the wolves if necessary. If a wolf was attacking a sheep in your barnyard you can shoot it.
:dunno:
Who's everyone?
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 15, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
I still don’t get why everyone seems to be making a big deal about the officers having the approval to shoot the wolves if necessary. If a wolf was attacking a sheep in your barnyard you can shoot it.
:dunno:
The comments about getting approval to shoot the wolves is a reading comprehension issue, as the article states, they were "told" to shoot the wolves if still on scene upon their arrival.
Big difference between being given approval to take action and being directed to take action...
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 15, 2018, 12:48:50 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on July 15, 2018, 12:59:51 PM
I still don’t get why everyone seems to be making a big deal about the officers having the approval to shoot the wolves if necessary. If a wolf was attacking a sheep in your barnyard you can shoot it.yup, I certainly ain’t waiting for permission if that was my wife up that tree!
:dunno:
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 15, 2018, 01:01:16 PM
So is Brown the current Co sheriff or not? :dunno:
Not according to their webpage:
Post by: Cougartail on July 15, 2018, 01:05:57 PM
I still don’t get why everyone seems to be making a big deal about the officers having the approval to shoot the wolves if necessary. If a wolf was attacking a sheep in your barnyard you can shoot it.yup, I certainly ain’t waiting for permission if that was my wife up that tree!
:dunno:
You must like your wife? I've had a few girlfriends that would have been in trouble!
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 15, 2018, 01:06:03 PM
I still don’t get why everyone seems to be making a big deal about the officers having the approval to shoot the wolves if necessary. If a wolf was attacking a sheep in your barnyard you can shoot it.yup, I certainly ain’t waiting for permission if that was my wife up that tree!
:dunno:
Depends on how much you like your wife. :peep:
It could be an opportunity in disguise... :chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 15, 2018, 01:43:44 PM
I still don’t get why everyone seems to be making a big deal about the officers having the approval to shoot the wolves if necessary. If a wolf was attacking a sheep in your barnyard you can shoot it.yup, I certainly ain’t waiting for permission if that was my wife up that tree!
:dunno:
Depends on how much you like your wife. :peep:
It could be an opportunity in disguise... :chuckle:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: trophyhunt on July 15, 2018, 02:35:55 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 15, 2018, 02:47:48 PM
You're assuming she had a government phone. Not all land management agency employees get government phones, especially the lower on the totem pole they are, or if they spend most of their time out of cell service.employers phone = taxpayer funded = our right to see said pictures/video because we pay for said employers wages through our taxes = FOIAWhy didn't she take a few pictures or even a video of said precious wolves she loves so much ?I’m sure she did. Employer’s phone = employer’s photos :dunno:
Photos taken on an employers time with a privately owned phone when the employer is the government could be argued to be government property.
Just ask Huma.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 15, 2018, 02:52:19 PM
So is Brown the current Co sheriff or not? :dunno:
Not according to their webpage:
Looks like the current sheriff is retiring and the previously mention Steve Brown is running for the position.
https://results.vote.wa.gov/results/current/okanogan/
Post by: wolfbait on July 15, 2018, 03:14:35 PM
Here is another account of the incident that provides some interesting behind the scenes details concerning interaction between Deputy Brown and USFWS employee Kurz from someone who appears to be familiar with the helicopter crew.
Steve McLaughlin- Protecting the Public Trust
July 13 at 6:58 PM ·
OKANOGAN WOLF INCIDENT UPDATE
On July 12, a forest service worker conducting a watershed study was surrounded and was forced to evade a wolfpack by climbing a tree.
Update:
1. A WA Department of Natural Resources Helicopter was dispatched to the scene by the NE Washington Inter-Agency Communications Center in Colville.
2. WDFW told the helicopter crew to stand down. In the interest of public safety, the crew continued on their mission and effected the rescue of the FS employee. Upon arrival at the scene, the flight crew spotted several wolves surrounded the tree where the FS employee was taking refuge. OKANOGAN COUNTY DEPUTIES WERE NOT PRESENT DURING THE RESCUE.
3. Lethal removal of wolves was authorized by the Okanogan County Sheriff's Incident Commander. This call was supported by Sheriff Rogers. NO WOLVES WERE KILLED.
4. Okanogan County Chief Criminal Deputy Steve Brown launched an investigation to determine if wolves in the area of Tiffany Springs could pose a threat to the public.
5. On 13 July, Deputy Brown and a team of investigators drove to the scene and began to proceed to the scene of the incident. Enroute to the incident, the investigation team encountered USFWS Biologist, Gregg Kurz and WDFW wolf specialist, Benjamin Maletzke. A conversation ensued. When asked, KURZ told Deputy Brown that the girl would not provide her name for security reasons. Deputies are still trying to get her name for investigative purposes and I will not provide her name for her own safety. KURZ also said the employee did not flee, but instead deployed repellent. KURZ said the employee was ineffective, so she climbed a tree to evade the threat. KURZ also informed Deputy Brown that the scene of the incident was actually a wolf rendezvous site.
6. KURZ also informed Deputy Brown that if he proceeded to the site, he would be charged with interfering with a federally protected species. Deputy Brown told KURZ that he faced arrest for impeding an active investigation. Deputy Brown and team proceeded about 1 mile to the incident scene.
7. While enroute to the scene, deputies located game cameras and a well cut trail to the site. During the conversation w/ KURZ, deputies were informed that the route to the incident was quite a distance away and there was significant deadfall along the route, contrary to what deputies found.
OPINIONS:
1. Many thanks to my friend Commissioner Franz for the use of the helicopter and aircrew as well as affecting the rescue!
2. WDFW showed incredibly poor judgment in calling on the helicopter crew to stand down when human life was threatened. the flight crew deserves a reward for their actions
3. OKSO deputies were correct in their decision to exercise lethal control if it was necessary as this was a rescue situation from threatening wolves. I encourage those reading this to see my previous post on the stages of habituation to human activity. The Sheriff's office had the authority to act, the duty to act, and they were correct in their decisions.
5. KURZ and MALETZKE impeded an official investigation and lied during questioning to a deputy (Chief Criminal Deputy Brown) by not providing the name of the FS employee, by failing to provide information about wolf presence during the rescue, by lying to Deputy Brown about the distance to the scene and the condition of the route.
COMMENTS:
1. WDFW MUST stop the lying and withholding of information to the public about wolf presence. WDFW is creating A PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE FOR WDFW and USFWS. In the wolf management plan, the WDFW will partner with ranchers and the public to minimize wolf/human/livestock conflict. Clearly the partnership is broken because the department is not acting in good faith. Each partner should act in a manner that contributes the the success of the other partner!.
2. My comment stands about the need to remove the WDFW conflict specialist for failing to act and for calling the FS employee "Stupid!"
I'm certain there is more to follow. We'll see how truthful WDFW really is.....or isn't!
Having witnessed WDFW and the USFWS run to the papers in other wolf matters, this latest news sounds more like the real situation.
My guess is neither agency will bat an eye at being caught yet agin, lying to the public.
Post by: Curly on July 15, 2018, 03:22:02 PM
state fire crew retrieved a U.S. Forest Service salmon researcher in Okanogan County yesterday after she climbed a tree to avoid a wolf that was displaying behaviors that she considered threatening.
I added the bold part. Sounds like maybe more lies by wdfw. Are they trying to make it sound like there was just 1 wolf? All the other reports say several or maybe a pack, or 2. Later in the wdfw report they do have the report by USFWS where it does say 2 wolves, so I don't understand the opening statement about "a wolf" ?
Post by: Bob33 on July 15, 2018, 03:26:43 PM
Here is a statement on the wdfw site: https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/updates.php?year=2018#update-74Two wolves, but only one displaying aggressive behavior is a possibility.
state fire crew retrieved a U.S. Forest Service salmon researcher in Okanogan County yesterday after she climbed a tree to avoid a wolf that was displaying behaviors that she considered threatening.
I added the bold part. Sounds like maybe more lies by wdfw. Are they trying to make it sound like there was just 1 wolf? All the other reports say several or maybe a pack, or 2. Later in the wdfw report they do have the report by USFWS where it does say 2 wolves, so I don't understand the opening statement about "a wolf" ?
Post by: wolfbait on July 15, 2018, 03:40:26 PM
Here is a statement on the wdfw site: https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/updates.php?year=2018#update-74Two wolves, but only one displaying aggressive behavior is a possibility.
state fire crew retrieved a U.S. Forest Service salmon researcher in Okanogan County yesterday after she climbed a tree to avoid a wolf that was displaying behaviors that she considered threatening.
I added the bold part. Sounds like maybe more lies by wdfw. Are they trying to make it sound like there was just 1 wolf? All the other reports say several or maybe a pack, or 2. Later in the wdfw report they do have the report by USFWS where it does say 2 wolves, so I don't understand the opening statement about "a wolf" ?
Upon arrival at the scene, the flight crew spotted "several wolves" surrounded the tree where the FS employee was taking refuge.
Isn't one or two...still if you are trying to cover things up, one or two sounds better then several..
Post by: Pegasus on July 15, 2018, 04:25:39 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 15, 2018, 04:49:30 PM
....
Post by: ShadowHunter on July 15, 2018, 05:16:52 PM
Quote
Photos taken on an employers time with a privately owned phone when the employer is the government could be argued to be government property.
Finally somebody that's close.
Photos taken while in the employment of another (on the clock), belong to the employer. There's no need to argue, it's all spelled out in US copyright law.
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 15, 2018, 05:21:36 PM
Is that what's considered a treed cougar?
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 15, 2018, 05:25:58 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 15, 2018, 07:02:15 PM
What do you guys think they’re trying to cover up?
That there wasn't a single wolf there, musta been coyotes. :tup:
Post by: jackelope on July 15, 2018, 07:05:44 PM
What do you guys think they’re trying to cover up?
That there wasn't a single wolf there, musta been coyotes. :tup:
Yeah but. There’s a confirmed pack there already. And it was at either a den site or a rendezvous site. Does a single wolf rendezvous with itself? If it could, it would never leave the den!!
Post by: jackelope on July 15, 2018, 07:07:52 PM
I still don’t get why everyone seems to be making a big deal about the officers having the approval to shoot the wolves if necessary. If a wolf was attacking a sheep in your barnyard you can shoot it.
:dunno:
The comments about getting approval to shoot the wolves is a reading comprehension issue, as the article states, they were "told" to shoot the wolves if still on scene upon their arrival.
Big difference between being given approval to take action and being directed to take action...
You’re told to shoot.
You’re authorized to shoot.
Maybe I used the wrong word when I said “authorized”. Either way. If a wolf is attacking or trying to attack a person, does a law enforcement officer really actually need to be told that it’s ok to shoot them? NO! They don’t.
Post by: Bob33 on July 15, 2018, 07:16:55 PM
Wolves are legally protected and the consequences for illegally killing one can be severe. Yes you can shoot to protect human life. Instructing the officers to shoot if the wolves "were still on the scene" gives them greater latitude.I still don’t get why everyone seems to be making a big deal about the officers having the approval to shoot the wolves if necessary. If a wolf was attacking a sheep in your barnyard you can shoot it.
:dunno:
The comments about getting approval to shoot the wolves is a reading comprehension issue, as the article states, they were "told" to shoot the wolves if still on scene upon their arrival.
Big difference between being given approval to take action and being directed to take action...
You’re told to shoot.
You’re authorized to shoot.
Maybe I used the wrong word when I said “authorized”. Either way. If a wolf is attacking or trying to attack a person, does a law enforcement officer really actually need to be told that it’s ok to shoot them? NO! They don’t.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 15, 2018, 08:34:12 PM
Sound off bigtex.............and please give statutes etc. in your response. :tup:
Post by: trophyhunt on July 15, 2018, 09:04:27 PM
If we lived in a state where the media wasn't fake they would be all over this story and expose this wolf story for what it is. We eradicated the wolves for a reason and it shoulda stayed that way. Exposing humans and our food supply to wolves is nonsense. Lets bring back the plague, polio, smallpox and grizzly bears, too. After all its just nature at work...Amen!
Post by: haugenna on July 15, 2018, 09:59:31 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 15, 2018, 10:28:43 PM
Post by: Curly on July 16, 2018, 05:55:11 AM
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1130133#1130133http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8027596&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Post by: timberfaller on July 16, 2018, 06:54:48 AM
I suggest you go to YOUR local elected Sheriff and ask him or her that question!
I and others did during the Methow Valley's water war with the state and Feds. Sheriff Rogers response was "Yes I would have any trespasser on your property's arrested including FBI agents." "as your elected official I am top dog when it comes to enforcing the law." As a "elected" official they have the authority and power over any appointed/hired LEO.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 16, 2018, 07:02:43 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 16, 2018, 07:11:12 AM
I'd love to hear a representative of wdfw explain their response that 'A wolf" was involved, not a pack!
Careful now. WDFW said "A state fire crew retrieved a U.S. Forest Service salmon researcher in Okanogan County yesterday after she climbed a tree to avoid a wolf that was displaying behaviors that she considered threatening."
Then ...
“We’re still working to confirm details of the incident, but the most important element is that she was unharmed.”
Later in the news release, they quoted USFWS by saying..... "Prior to the incident, the individual observed wolf tracks and heard yipping and barking for a period of time before the wolves approached."
After unsuccessful attempts to scare the wolves away (including yelling, waving and deploying a can of bear spray in the direction of the wolves) the individual climbed a tree and used a radio to call for assistance."
I misinterpreted something that was posted in articles and got called out on it multiple times. I guess it all comes down to interpretation maybe. Maybe one wolf was displaying behaviors that she considered threatening. Maybe the other ones were wagging their tails and trying to give her a high five. Maybe there was only one wolf there when she climbed the tree and the others showed up later.
:dunno:
Post by: wolfbait on July 16, 2018, 07:28:30 AM
I'd love to hear a representative of wdfw explain their response that 'A wolf" was involved, not a pack!
Now that they have been caught trying to hide facts, my guess is they will slime their story along just enough to save a little face, but the MSM stories won't change. And With the help their lackeys on hunting forums, helping to muddy the waters everything will continue as they were.
Remember the first wolf meeting in the Okanogan?
WDFW equals Peter Strzok, etc.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 16, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1130133#1130133http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8027596&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
No, you didn't follow my link. SAR has been sent to Mount Elinor to rescue a family surrounded by a herd of goats. Quite the weird little coincidence.
Post by: jackelope on July 16, 2018, 07:38:47 AM
I'd love to hear a representative of wdfw explain their response that 'A wolf" was involved, not a pack!
Now that they have been caught trying to hide facts, my guess is they will slime their story along just enough to save a little face, but the MSM stories won't change. And With the help their lackeys on hunting forums, helping to muddy the waters everything will continue as they were.
Remember the first wolf meeting in the Okanogan?
WDFW equals Peter Strzok, etc.
There's a link to an article posted in this thread released by WDFW indicating there were multiple wolves there. I'm assuming when you say "their lackeys on hunting forums" you're referring to me. Please tell me how I'm muddying the water. All I did was quote the article that WDFW posted on their website.
Here it is again.
Quote
"A state fire crew retrieved a U.S. Forest Service salmon researcher in Okanogan County yesterday after she climbed a tree to avoid a wolf that was displaying behaviors that she considered threatening."
Then ...
“We’re still working to confirm details of the incident, but the most important element is that she was unharmed.”
Later in the news release, they quoted USFWS by saying..... "Prior to the incident, the individual observed wolf tracks and heard yipping and barking for a period of time before the wolves approached."
After unsuccessful attempts to scare the wolves away (including yelling, waving and deploying a can of bear spray in the direction of the wolves) the individual climbed a tree and used a radio to call for assistance."
My interpretation is this.
She climbed a tree because a wolf was acting aggressively.
More wolves showed up while she was up the tree.
I know this seems far too simple for some. I'd love to hear a straight out explanation of what you get out of the article rather than just calling me names and flipping insults. Maybe you'll change my mind.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 16, 2018, 07:40:04 AM
Campmeat said, "Sound off bigtex.............and please give statutes etc. in your response."
I suggest you go to YOUR local elected Sheriff and ask him or her that question!
I and others did during the Methow Valley's water war with the state and Feds. Sheriff Rogers response was "Yes I would have any trespasser on your property's arrested including FBI agents." "as your elected official I am top dog when it comes to enforcing the law." As a "elected" official they have the authority and power over any appointed/hired LEO.
I already knew the answer....
Post by: Alchase on July 16, 2018, 07:44:09 AM
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1130133#1130133http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8027596&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
No, you didn't follow my link. SAR has been sent to Mount Elinor to rescue a family surrounded by a herd of goats. Quite the weird little coincidence.
Was it one goat or more that was acting threatening? :dunno:
Sorry, could not help myself....
Those goats are no joke, and they have been seriously aggressive in the past.
Post by: jackelope on July 16, 2018, 07:50:13 AM
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1130133#1130133http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8027596&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
No, you didn't follow my link. SAR has been sent to Mount Elinor to rescue a family surrounded by a herd of goats. Quite the weird little coincidence.
He followed your link, he just didn't scroll up to the top of the thread.
Post by: Curly on July 16, 2018, 08:06:45 AM
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1130133#1130133http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8027596&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
No, you didn't follow my link. SAR has been sent to Mount Elinor to rescue a family surrounded by a herd of goats. Quite the weird little coincidence.
He followed your link, he just didn't scroll up to the top of the thread.
I followed the link but didn't see the connection between goats and wolves. Then saw the wolf thread over there and thought the wrong thread was linked. Both threads were interesting though. 8)
Post by: bigtex on July 16, 2018, 08:22:41 AM
Campmeat said, "Sound off bigtex.............and please give statutes etc. in your response."Sheriff Rogers (and others) has also deputized USFS and DNR LEOs in his county giving them countywide authority instead of authority just on their agency lands.
I suggest you go to YOUR local elected Sheriff and ask him or her that question!
I and others did during the Methow Valley's water war with the state and Feds. Sheriff Rogers response was "Yes I would have any trespasser on your property's arrested including FBI agents." "as your elected official I am top dog when it comes to enforcing the law." As a "elected" official they have the authority and power over any appointed/hired LEO.
It's amazing how many sheriffs portray themselves as "anti-fed" yet work with the feds all the time, including even deputizing them. Sheriff's are politicians, they know what they need to say to get elected.
Post by: Special T on July 16, 2018, 08:22:48 AM
1. Regional Foresters, Forest Supervisors, Station Directors,
the Area Director, or the Institute Director may authorize non-law
enforcement employees to carry firearms when functions or circum-stances related to official duties necessitate such permission. https://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/fsh/6709.11/FSH6709.pdf
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Post by: Special T on July 16, 2018, 08:24:30 AM
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Post by: Special T on July 16, 2018, 08:27:43 AM
1 probably not going to change and allow them to carry.
2 I'm skeptical this employee was actually doing salmon work.
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Post by: jackelope on July 16, 2018, 08:35:08 AM
I saw this posted else where and suspect 2 things....
1 probably not going to change and allow them to carry.
2 I'm skeptical this employee was actually doing salmon work.
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What do you think she could have been doing?
Post by: jackelope on July 16, 2018, 08:40:31 AM
Maybe it's me, and I've spent plenty of time in the woods by myself, but it seems weird to have a person in that country alone....especially working for a gov entity. Seems like liability would be such a concern, they'd force some sort of buddy system setup. It is the 21st century after all.
Someone from western Washington suggesting bigger government and the buddy system, all in the name of safety. Say it ain’t so. Lol
We need to put pressure on USFS (Forest Service) Region 6 (PNW)- to allow forest workers to carry firearms. Firearm policies vary across regions, and our region must address the increased threat posed by the proliferation of wolves and a growing grizzly bear population. In Region 10 (Alaska) for example, every USFS work crew is required to have at least one armed member. According to Section 51.21 of the USFS Employee Health and Safety Code Handbook: "at remote work areas where bear and/or other aggressive animal populations warrant, at least one person in every work crew shall be assigned a firearm provided by the Forest Service for protection. Working in pairs or in groups is the preferred work method. Personnel who choose to work alone in bear country need appropriate line/staff officer approval. Appropriate line/staff officer may assign personnel to work alone in areas identified as low risk with employee consent." The Region 1 (Montana) Employee Handbook, section 51.21 – "Adds regional direction for authorized use of firearms by non-law enforcement employees". It is up to each region and/or district office to assess need for firearm carry. The PNW region is now a very dangerous place to work.
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:dunno:
Where's that from, Special T?
Post by: Special T on July 16, 2018, 08:49:50 AM
https://www.facebook.com/355207934576312/posts/1783035141793577/
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Post by: Special T on July 16, 2018, 09:08:37 AM
I saw this posted else where and suspect 2 things....
1 probably not going to change and allow them to carry.
2 I'm skeptical this employee was actually doing salmon work.
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What do you think she could have been doing?
I don't know what she was doing. But we know a few things. We ( sherif dept)don't have the employees name. The department hasn't exactly been truthful about this incident so far...
I'm certain that doing any work in that area is harder because of the lack of trust. So far they have done little to earn it back so I'm a skeptic. I could make a WAG but that would then change the discussion and the burden of proof. A higher likelihood is that there will be more info on this coming out.
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Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 16, 2018, 09:20:02 AM
Citizens for property rights alliance fb page comment.
Quote
Will the sheriff conduct an independent investigation as the state and federal wildlife biologists planned to do on hike to the site Friday?
Why does that matter? All that is is sensational bluster. How exactly would the results of that change anything? Demanding to know what the researcher was doing up there would be the same as demanding when the USFS office staff has coffee and potty breaks.
And if you don't think they were doing salmon work (which could involve lots of things quite far away from any creek), what do you think they were doing?
Post by: Cougartail on July 16, 2018, 09:25:02 AM
That being said, a woman working alone in any remote area should have the option of arming herself. With all the scum running the US anymore wildlife is a small problem. I know I won't go unarmed in the woods anymore..
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 16, 2018, 10:56:37 AM
Is she accused of a crime? What portion of the US and Washington State Constitution doesn't apply to this woman? The same laws that apply to open carriers saying "am I under suspicion of committing a crime?" also apply to USFS employees doing their job. Her name is probably available thru FOI requests, but is certainly nothing the sheriff can compel as part of his meaningless investigation at the behest of agitation.
We ( sherif dept)don't have the employees name.
Post by: bigtex on July 16, 2018, 11:05:46 AM
:yeah:We ( sherif dept)don't have the employees name.Is she accused of a crime? What portion of the US and Washington State Constitution doesn't apply to this woman? The same laws that apply to open carriers saying "am I under suspicion of committing a crime?" also apply to USFS employees doing their job. Her name is probably available thru FOI requests, but is certainly nothing the sheriff can compel as part of his meaningless investigation at the behest of agitation.
Realistically, there is no reason for the sheriff to "investigate." What crime occurred? The only reason WDFW involves sheriff's departments in wolf depredation investigations is essentially to show public trust and there isn't some cover-up. If WDFW and the SO both say the cow/lamb/etc was killed by coyotes and not wolves people will believe them more than if WDFW just came out themselves and said it.
In reality, the SO is "investigating" because of political reasons, that's it.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 16, 2018, 11:16:37 AM
In reality, the SO is "investigating" because of political reasons, that's it.
And people want to investigate "just what she was doing up there". What exactly is the authority for the SO to investigate how a federal agency does it's research? Is the detective going sit down, peruse the peer reviewed literature and the research proposal and decide if it was justified? And if he and his AA degree disagrees with the PhD biologists or geologists, then what?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 16, 2018, 11:33:17 AM
Post by: Special T on July 16, 2018, 11:53:34 AM
I only point it out because it shows lack of trust... Both directions I might add.Is she accused of a crime? What portion of the US and Washington State Constitution doesn't apply to this woman? The same laws that apply to open carriers saying "am I under suspicion of committing a crime?" also apply to USFS employees doing their job. Her name is probably available thru FOI requests, but is certainly nothing the sheriff can compel as part of his meaningless investigation at the behest of agitation.
We ( sherif dept)don't have the employees name.
I've refused to provide my name before, and it has earned me extra scrutiny... If I've been on the receiving end shouldn't she/the usfs also receive some?
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Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 16, 2018, 12:19:45 PM
I've refused to provide my name before, and it has earned me extra scrutiny... If I've been on the receiving end shouldn't she/the usfs also receiveNo extra legal scrutiny is OK, no matter if it’s somebody in Compton, a government employee doing their job or you. Two wrongs don’t make a right. If she had been there, maybe she would have given her name. But she wasn’t, so the USFS was correct in declining to give her name where it wasn’t required except for rabid trolling by an deputy running for sheriff and appealing to anti government agitation.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 16, 2018, 02:01:00 PM
We need to put pressure on USFS (Forest Service) Region 6 (PNW)- to allow forest workers to carry firearms. Firearm policies vary across regions, and our region must address the increased threat posed by the proliferation of wolves and a growing grizzly bear population. In Region 10 (Alaska) for example, every USFS work crew is required to have at least one armed member. According to Section 51.21 of the USFS Employee Health and Safety Code Handbook: "at remote work areas where bear and/or other aggressive animal populations warrant, at least one person in every work crew shall be assigned a firearm provided by the Forest Service for protection. Working in pairs or in groups is the preferred work method. Personnel who choose to work alone in bear country need appropriate line/staff officer approval. Appropriate line/staff officer may assign personnel to work alone in areas identified as low risk with employee consent." The Region 1 (Montana) Employee Handbook, section 51.21 – "Adds regional direction for authorized use of firearms by non-law enforcement employees". It is up to each region and/or district office to assess need for firearm carry. The PNW region is now a very dangerous place to work.
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Why should we put pressure on them? I would expect the employees themselves or their union would be putting pressure on to accomplish this. They don't have to work there if they don't want, especially if working conditions are unsafe. It's kind of like the WeWork company not allowing the expensing of meals with meat on them. You can choose to work there or not. You can change management's mind or not. It's not my employer and I have no dog in that fight. :dunno:
Post by: Special T on July 18, 2018, 01:55:14 PM
Wolf rescue incident #3:DISTURBING ISSUES REMAIN AFTER THE TIFFANY SPRINGS WOLF INCIDENT – USFS, USFWS AND WDFW – IT’S TIME TO COME OUT INTO THE LIGHT OF DAY!
On 12 July, a young USFS (According to a Capital Press article released today, we don’t really even know who she’s working for) employee was rescued by a Washington Department of Natural Resources Flight Crew. I spent time yesterday reviewing the dispatch tapes from the incident and I would personally like to commend Jill at NEWICC, the Okanogan County 911 Dispatcher, and the DNR flight crew! Their decision to go ahead with the rescue in spite of pushback from the wildlife agencies resulted in a speedy rescue. As we used to say in the Navy for a job well done, BRAVO ZULU!
But, the tapes reveal some interesting questions about the wildlife agencies and the Forest Service! New facts are emerging and these take up from where I left off in my previous postings.
FACTS:
1. During the 6 taped dialogs between the Okanogan Dispatcher and NEWICC (Jill), there was a specific time when Jill told the Okanogan Dispatcher that WDFW said the incident was a “Wildlife issue and not a Search and Rescue (SAR).
2. A joint statement by WDFW and USFWS public information officers (PIO’s) indicated that human life takes precedence over wildlife.
3. Outside stories said the USFS employee was conducting a salmon study in the area. According to sources, there are no salmon in that area
4. According to comments made during the rescue, the USFS employee was seen in the tree holding some telemetry equipment.
5. In a County Commissioners deposition, the Okanogan Sheriffs Office told the rescued employee to stay at Omak airport until the deputies arrived in order to interview her.
6. Before the deputies arrived at the airport, a USFS vehicle arrived at Omak airport and took the employee away. She has not been seen or heard from since the incident
7. The Tonasket Ranger District has not deployed any USFS employees to the field since this incident occurred.
8. WDFW and/or USFWS trappers are operating in the area of the Loup loup wolfpack.
Opinions:
1. WDFW DID try to shut down the DNR and OCSO rescue operation so they could affect the rescue. In the dispatch tapes, NEWICC (Jill) clearly states she was told this was a wildlife issue and not a SAR. This action runs contrary to what the joint WDFW/USFWS PIO statement suggests. What are these agencies hiding? Was this order given by WDFW Officer Troutman?
2. WDFW in cooperation with the USFWS and likely with the University of Washington are conducting an ungulate study throughout known wolf populated areas in Washington. In earlier field research I am conducting in other counties, I was told that a significant portion of the UW work may be occurring in the Northern Cascade ecosystem (the rescue scene is in the NC ecosystem). Is this what the employee was really doing? Where are the salmon streams in the Tiffany Springs area? The actions and activities of the WDFW, USFWS and USFS in this area requires more investigation and these agencies should come into the light of day.
3. The USFS for some reason did not want the rescued employee to speak with deputies. However, the deputies investigating the rescue told the employee to stay at the airport so they could interview her. By her leaving, she and those who took her away from the airport could face criminal charges for impeding an official investigation. Why did the USFS not allow the rescued person to speak with deputies?
4. There are only two reasons why the Tonasket Ranger District would be keeping employees close to home; the first and preferred reason would be in order to conduct a safety stand down and revise work protocols in areas where there are known apex predators. However, given the past conduct of the USFS District Ranger over his career, it seems more likely the employees are being directed on what to say about the rescue situation and about the operations surrounding studies in the Tiffany Springs and other areas of the county.
5. It should be reiterated that the sheriff has full authority over ALL law activities in his/her county over all other agencies. While many sheriff’s choose to cooperate with state and federal agencies, the sheriff has the right and duty to act when these agencies get out of hand.
Comments:
1. So, the plot thickens! What is really going on in the region near the rescue site? Salmon? I doubt it.
2. Back in the 1980’s a U.S. Navy ship came across a load of Vietnamese boat people who were in poor health and in bad condition on the high seas. The ship’s commanding officer ordered his crew to give the people water and food, but to not embark them onboard as the ship was on a timeline to make it to an exercise. The commanding officer was relieved of his duties for his failing to rescue those in peril. FOR AN OFFICER OF ANY LOCAL, STATE OR FEDERAL AGENCY TO STATE THE ISSUE WAS A WILDLIFE ISSUE and NOT a SAR ISSUE IS BEHAVING IN THE SAME MANNER as the ship’s commanding officer. Yet WDFW, USFS and USFWS is covering up something the public has the right to know and the need to know about in the interest of public safety!
3. For too long, these agencies have gotten away with shell games, lies, moving the goalposts and treating American citizens with disdain. ITS TIME TO CLEAN IT UP!
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Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 18, 2018, 02:03:10 PM
Post by: buglebrush on July 18, 2018, 02:05:57 PM
Same source as cited before.
Wolf rescue incident #3:DISTURBING ISSUES REMAIN AFTER THE TIFFANY SPRINGS WOLF INCIDENT – USFS, USFWS AND WDFW – IT’S TIME TO COME OUT INTO THE LIGHT OF DAY!
On 12 July, a young USFS (According to a Capital Press article released today, we don’t really even know who she’s working for) employee was rescued by a Washington Department of Natural Resources Flight Crew. I spent time yesterday reviewing the dispatch tapes from the incident and I would personally like to commend Jill at NEWICC, the Okanogan County 911 Dispatcher, and the DNR flight crew! Their decision to go ahead with the rescue in spite of pushback from the wildlife agencies resulted in a speedy rescue. As we used to say in the Navy for a job well done, BRAVO ZULU!
But, the tapes reveal some interesting questions about the wildlife agencies and the Forest Service! New facts are emerging and these take up from where I left off in my previous postings.
FACTS:
1. During the 6 taped dialogs between the Okanogan Dispatcher and NEWICC (Jill), there was a specific time when Jill told the Okanogan Dispatcher that WDFW said the incident was a “Wildlife issue and not a Search and Rescue (SAR).
2. A joint statement by WDFW and USFWS public information officers (PIO’s) indicated that human life takes precedence over wildlife.
3. Outside stories said the USFS employee was conducting a salmon study in the area. According to sources, there are no salmon in that area
4. According to comments made during the rescue, the USFS employee was seen in the tree holding some telemetry equipment.
5. In a County Commissioners deposition, the Okanogan Sheriffs Office told the rescued employee to stay at Omak airport until the deputies arrived in order to interview her.
6. Before the deputies arrived at the airport, a USFS vehicle arrived at Omak airport and took the employee away. She has not been seen or heard from since the incident
7. The Tonasket Ranger District has not deployed any USFS employees to the field since this incident occurred.
8. WDFW and/or USFWS trappers are operating in the area of the Loup loup wolfpack.
Opinions:
1. WDFW DID try to shut down the DNR and OCSO rescue operation so they could affect the rescue. In the dispatch tapes, NEWICC (Jill) clearly states she was told this was a wildlife issue and not a SAR. This action runs contrary to what the joint WDFW/USFWS PIO statement suggests. What are these agencies hiding? Was this order given by WDFW Officer Troutman?
2. WDFW in cooperation with the USFWS and likely with the University of Washington are conducting an ungulate study throughout known wolf populated areas in Washington. In earlier field research I am conducting in other counties, I was told that a significant portion of the UW work may be occurring in the Northern Cascade ecosystem (the rescue scene is in the NC ecosystem). Is this what the employee was really doing? Where are the salmon streams in the Tiffany Springs area? The actions and activities of the WDFW, USFWS and USFS in this area requires more investigation and these agencies should come into the light of day.
3. The USFS for some reason did not want the rescued employee to speak with deputies. However, the deputies investigating the rescue told the employee to stay at the airport so they could interview her. By her leaving, she and those who took her away from the airport could face criminal charges for impeding an official investigation. Why did the USFS not allow the rescued person to speak with deputies?
4. There are only two reasons why the Tonasket Ranger District would be keeping employees close to home; the first and preferred reason would be in order to conduct a safety stand down and revise work protocols in areas where there are known apex predators. However, given the past conduct of the USFS District Ranger over his career, it seems more likely the employees are being directed on what to say about the rescue situation and about the operations surrounding studies in the Tiffany Springs and other areas of the county.
5. It should be reiterated that the sheriff has full authority over ALL law activities in his/her county over all other agencies. While many sheriff’s choose to cooperate with state and federal agencies, the sheriff has the right and duty to act when these agencies get out of hand.
Comments:
1. So, the plot thickens! What is really going on in the region near the rescue site? Salmon? I doubt it.
2. Back in the 1980’s a U.S. Navy ship came across a load of Vietnamese boat people who were in poor health and in bad condition on the high seas. The ship’s commanding officer ordered his crew to give the people water and food, but to not embark them onboard as the ship was on a timeline to make it to an exercise. The commanding officer was relieved of his duties for his failing to rescue those in peril. FOR AN OFFICER OF ANY LOCAL, STATE OR FEDERAL AGENCY TO STATE THE ISSUE WAS A WILDLIFE ISSUE and NOT a SAR ISSUE IS BEHAVING IN THE SAME MANNER as the ship’s commanding officer. Yet WDFW, USFS and USFWS is covering up something the public has the right to know and the need to know about in the interest of public safety!
3. For too long, these agencies have gotten away with shell games, lies, moving the goalposts and treating American citizens with disdain. ITS TIME TO CLEAN IT UP!
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Well, we do know that when it comes to predators, especially wolves, they've been lying for a long time already. How much you want to bet it was actually releasing more wolves in the area?
Post by: boneaddict on July 18, 2018, 02:19:08 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on July 18, 2018, 02:23:29 PM
Tin foil, meet hat.:yeah:
Good grief. No shortage of conspiracy theorists these days :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 18, 2018, 02:33:51 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 02:53:07 PM
What am I missing? Other than a stupid decision by WDFW to get involved, and call off the helicopter.
The victims here will be that contract helicopter crew, I bet they get put down the list a few notches next fire storm.
Post by: buglebrush on July 18, 2018, 03:00:49 PM
Post by: bornhunter on July 18, 2018, 03:25:08 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 03:29:00 PM
/groan
Post by: bigtex on July 18, 2018, 03:30:01 PM
I figured it all out!!! Trump was up there with Stormy Daniels!Finally the real story is out. Sad thing is I'm sure we could convince a few on here this was true.
Post by: bornhunter on July 18, 2018, 03:35:20 PM
Post by: gaddy on July 18, 2018, 03:36:40 PM
Post by: bornhunter on July 18, 2018, 03:37:58 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 03:42:54 PM
Next question...how is this person/facebook page/potentially just another social media blah blah blah page any more legit than any of the other sources that have shared input so far in this debacle? I mean...who's who and how do you all determine who's right and wrong and what's fact and what's BS?
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 03:45:51 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 03:50:25 PM
I thought that was off the sheriffs FB page :dunno:
I thought it was these guys.
Citizens for property rights alliance fb page comment.
https://www.facebook.com/355207934576312/posts/1783035141793577/
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@Special T which one is it?
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 03:51:11 PM
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcLaughlin4lands/posts/1879607178744106
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 03:51:57 PM
for those with FB
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcLaughlin4lands/?hc_ref=ARQELChZTDI-RfEZuF9KvAZ8PKAmIaJfRoTQgNp_MiFnqsDN3LULLkyzJQnC8KSJwT0&fref=nf
Is he the sheriff?
I'm lost.
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
Frank T. Rogers
I'm lost too, I think it's a bunch of folks in different groups cross posting all over FB
This might clear it up
https://ballotpedia.org/Steve_McLaughlin_(Washington)
Post by: Curly on July 18, 2018, 03:53:45 PM
I don't get all the drama between agencies, the sheriff is like a dog with a bone here. The USFWS has authority to track wolves and/or measure stream temps and outflow, regardless what she was doing it was within the scope of USFWS especially on federal lands.
What am I missing? Other than a stupid decision by WDFW to get involved, and call off the helicopter.
The victims here will be that contract helicopter crew, I bet they get put down the list a few notches next fire storm.
But she is apparently a USFS employee, not USFWS. It does seem odd that USFS is doing salmon studies. It would be more plausible if she were with USFWS but it really wouldn't surprise me too much if she really was surveying streams. USFS is good at wasting money just like the other agencies.
Post by: bigtex on July 18, 2018, 03:54:32 PM
He wants to be the WA Public Lands Commissioner (head of DNR)for those with FBIs he the sheriff?
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcLaughlin4lands/?hc_ref=ARQELChZTDI-RfEZuF9KvAZ8PKAmIaJfRoTQgNp_MiFnqsDN3LULLkyzJQnC8KSJwT0&fref=nf
I'm lost.
Post by: bigtex on July 18, 2018, 03:55:59 PM
It's not odd at all, in fact it would be odd if USFWS was doing salmon studies as salmon fall under NOAA/NMFS. Agencies have biologists for their lands, she's a worker for fisheries on USFS lands.I don't get all the drama between agencies, the sheriff is like a dog with a bone here. The USFWS has authority to track wolves and/or measure stream temps and outflow, regardless what she was doing it was within the scope of USFWS especially on federal lands.But she is apparently a USFS employee, not USFWS. It does seem odd that USFS is doing salmon studies. It would be more plausible if she were with USFWS but it really wouldn't surprise me too much if she really was surveying streams. USFS is good at wasting money just like the other agencies.
What am I missing? Other than a stupid decision by WDFW to get involved, and call off the helicopter.
The victims here will be that contract helicopter crew, I bet they get put down the list a few notches next fire storm.
Post by: Curly on July 18, 2018, 03:56:54 PM
Citizens for property rights alliance fb page comment.
https://www.facebook.com/355207934576312/posts/1783035141793577/
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This was the source the other day.
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 03:57:12 PM
Sheriff
Frank T. Rogers
I'm lost too, I think it's a bunch of folks in different groups cross posting all over FB
This might clear it up
https://ballotpedia.org/Steve_McLaughlin_(Washington)
That's exactly what it is. The person that you think is correct is the person you want to listen to.
That's the way it comes across to me.
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 03:58:17 PM
It's why I didn't get why all the hoopla over this, it's making much more since now.
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 04:00:08 PM
Citizens for property rights alliance fb page comment.
https://www.facebook.com/355207934576312/posts/1783035141793577/
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This was the source the other day.
I looked there and didn't see the comments that Special T posted. That's when I decided I couldn't follow who was coming or going.
We have this FB group. They're a private property rights group but have lots of anti-wolf and anti-government sounding stuff on their FB page. Also at least 1 article about the mountain goat relocation project.
We have the sheriff.
We have the candidate for the head of the DNR position.
We have WDFW
We have USFS
WE have USFWS
Who'd I miss??
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 04:02:39 PM
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcLaughlin4lands/posts/1879607178744106
link didn't post correctly, for some reason the last " ) " keeps dropping off the link, so if you want to see it you'll need to manually add it to your browser or cut/paste the whole URL
https://ballotpedia.org/Steve_McLaughlin_(Washington)
fixed, used the (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/Themes/GreenBeanForSMF2/images/bbc/url.gif) button :tup:
https://ballotpedia.org/Steve_McLaughlin_(Washington) (https://ballotpedia.org/Steve_McLaughlin_(Washington))
Post by: Bob33 on July 18, 2018, 04:04:36 PM
It's actually pretty simple to know who is telling the truth.Citizens for property rights alliance fb page comment.
https://www.facebook.com/355207934576312/posts/1783035141793577/
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
This was the source the other day.
I looked there and didn't see the comments that Special T posted. That's when I decided I couldn't follow who was coming or going.
We have this FB group. They're a private property rights group but have lots of anti-wolf and anti-government sounding stuff on their FB page. Also at least 1 article about the mountain goat relocation project.
We have the sheriff.
We have the candidate for the head of the DNR position.
We have WDFW
We have USFS
WE have USFWS
Who'd I miss??
If you agree with the point of view, it's completely accurate and valid information.
If you don't agree, it's fake news. :tup:
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 04:17:59 PM
Sheriff
Frank T. Rogers
I'm lost too, I think it's a bunch of folks in different groups cross posting all over FB
This might clear it up
https://ballotpedia.org/Steve_McLaughlin_(Washington)
That's exactly what it is. The person that you think is correct is the person you want to listen to.
That's the way it comes across to me.
It's actually pretty simple to know who is telling the truth.Citizens for property rights alliance fb page comment.
https://www.facebook.com/355207934576312/posts/1783035141793577/
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
This was the source the other day.
I looked there and didn't see the comments that Special T posted. That's when I decided I couldn't follow who was coming or going.
We have this FB group. They're a private property rights group but have lots of anti-wolf and anti-government sounding stuff on their FB page. Also at least 1 article about the mountain goat relocation project.
We have the sheriff.
We have the candidate for the head of the DNR position.
We have WDFW
We have USFS
WE have USFWS
Who'd I miss??
If you agree with the point of view, it's completely accurate and valid information.
If you don't agree, it's fake news. :tup:
:yeah:
Post by: boneaddict on July 18, 2018, 04:38:43 PM
I have to admit I thought crosseyed when they said she was studying salmon up at Tiffany. Though I get sediment studies maybe. Lol. But I’m also not 30 million in the hole. (Yes I know she isn’t WDFW). Or was she :chuckle:
Post by: idahohuntr on July 18, 2018, 05:39:59 PM
No surprises from the WDF&Wolves cheerleading squad here today - "Nothing to see here." Yeah, right. We've been lied to every step of the way in the Canadian wolf introduction. Even Congress was lied to and these jerks seem immune to consequences. They've lied about the spread of diseases/parasites, environmental impact, economic impact, breeding and growth rates. And the "student" in question was on a salmon count...with a telemetry antenna? I did not know they could track spawning salmon with a telemetry antenna. Ignoring the orders of the Sheriff to stay at the airport and speak with a deputy? 911 being told this was a wildlife issue? It's too bad our governor is so deep in this chit that we'll never see a proper investigation as to what's going on.And no surprise that the conspiracy crowd is unaware of basic facts like tracking fish with telemetry gear being very common in the northwest. But go on with these conspiracies, I'm not done with my popcorn :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 05:43:36 PM
No surprises from the WDF&Wolves cheerleading squad here today - "Nothing to see here." Yeah, right. We've been lied to every step of the way in the Canadian wolf introduction. Even Congress was lied to and these jerks seem immune to consequences. They've lied about the spread of diseases/parasites, environmental impact, economic impact, breeding and growth rates. And the "student" in question was on a salmon count...with a telemetry antenna? I did not know they could track spawning salmon with a telemetry antenna. Ignoring the orders of the Sheriff to stay at the airport and speak with a deputy? 911 being told this was a wildlife issue? It's too bad our governor is so deep in this chit that we'll never see a proper investigation as to what's going on.And no surprise that the conspiracy crowd is unaware of basic facts like tracking fish with telemetry gear being very common in the northwest. But go on with these conspiracies, I'm not done with my popcorn :chuckle:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180719/f6858e3ce6336c6828ae1713e90e14c7.png)
Post by: bigtex on July 18, 2018, 05:44:53 PM
:yeah:No surprises from the WDF&Wolves cheerleading squad here today - "Nothing to see here." Yeah, right. We've been lied to every step of the way in the Canadian wolf introduction. Even Congress was lied to and these jerks seem immune to consequences. They've lied about the spread of diseases/parasites, environmental impact, economic impact, breeding and growth rates. And the "student" in question was on a salmon count...with a telemetry antenna? I did not know they could track spawning salmon with a telemetry antenna. Ignoring the orders of the Sheriff to stay at the airport and speak with a deputy? 911 being told this was a wildlife issue? It's too bad our governor is so deep in this chit that we'll never see a proper investigation as to what's going on.And no surprise that the conspiracy crowd is unaware of basic facts like tracking fish with telemetry gear being very common in the northwest. But go on with these conspiracies, I'm not done with my popcorn :chuckle:
(https://www.fws.gov/alaska/fisheries/fieldoffice/anchorage/field/images/tn_P8270787.JPG)
(https://fishaz.azgfd.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Trout-Tagged.jpg)
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 18, 2018, 05:45:31 PM
Post by: bigtex on July 18, 2018, 05:47:00 PM
Ignoring the orders of the Sheriff to stay at the airport and speak with a deputy?Orders under what law? Good luck finding one. She didn't have to stay if she didn't want to. No crime was committed.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 18, 2018, 05:50:12 PM
We have this FB group. They're a private property rights group but have lots of anti-wolf and anti-government sounding stuff on their FB page. Also at least 1 article about the mountain goat relocation project.
We have the sheriff.
We have the candidate for the head of the DNR position.
We have WDFW
We have USFS
WE have USFWS
Who'd I miss??
The detective, who is running for sheriff because the present one is not running
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 05:52:19 PM
No surprises from the WDF&Wolves cheerleading squad here today - "Nothing to see here." Yeah, right. We've been lied to every step of the way in the Canadian wolf introduction. Even Congress was lied to and these jerks seem immune to consequences. They've lied about the spread of diseases/parasites, environmental impact, economic impact, breeding and growth rates. And the "student" in question was on a salmon count...with a telemetry antenna? I did not know they could track spawning salmon with a telemetry antenna. Ignoring the orders of the Sheriff to stay at the airport and speak with a deputy? 911 being told this was a wildlife issue? It's too bad our governor is so deep in this chit that we'll never see a proper investigation as to what's going on.And no surprise that the conspiracy crowd is unaware of basic facts like tracking fish with telemetry gear being very common in the northwest. But go on with these conspiracies, I'm not done with my popcorn :chuckle:
I'm not that familiar with Tiffany creek area, but is there a stream that fish can migrate up? Fish big enough to drag radio gear all the way up there and lay eggs?
I looked around onX, and I don't see a lot of streams that could carry salmon with radio tags :dunno:
the line is exactly 2 miles, the red circle is roughly 2 miles diameter, so if the information is correct it happened inside the red circle. ish.
Post by: Curly on July 18, 2018, 05:56:54 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 18, 2018, 05:58:10 PM
Orders under what law? Good luck finding one. She didn't have to stay if she didn't want to. No crime was committed.
The one rescue and helicopter extraction I was involved in, I don’t think Grant County FD or sheriff actually ever knew more about the victim than their first name. MAST must have gotten their name when they landed at Yak or Wenatchee, but that’s it.
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 06:03:36 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180719/5d9656171873ba1a7bbe220cc17892e0.png)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180719/03d6ba34ed612dce59d38bd1e958427a.png)
Post by: KFhunter on July 18, 2018, 06:07:44 PM
Could she have thought she was tracking salmon, but actually was tracking wolves by mistake? :o
beep beep beep
"oh I got a beep!"
beep beep beep beep beep
"the beep is getting stronger!"
beep beep beep beep beep beep beep
"it's getting closer!"
beep beep beep beep beep BEEP BEEP BEEP!
"oh my gosh it's really close now!"
BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP
"oh it's a bit too close!"
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPP!!!
"niiice wolfie niiiiice wolfie NIIIICE! WOLFIE! NIIIIIIII.... NO WOLF! NO! GET BACK WOLF!!! AGHHH *spray* *spray* *more wolves* ARGH!! MUST CLIMB THE TREE!!"
Not to be insensitive to the gal, she's probably very shook up about it
:peep:
Post by: bigtex on July 18, 2018, 06:08:47 PM
:yeah:Orders under what law? Good luck finding one. She didn't have to stay if she didn't want to. No crime was committed.The one rescue and helicopter extraction I was involved in, I don’t think Grant County FD or sheriff actually ever knew more about the victim than their first name. MAST must have gotten their name when they landed at Yak or Wenatchee, but that’s it.
And there's no reason to.
Post by: gaddy on July 18, 2018, 06:11:18 PM
Crap, I was supposed to be looking for salmon. :chuckle:Could she have thought she was tracking salmon, but actually was tracking wolves by mistake? :o
beep beep beep
"oh I got a beep!"
beep beep beep beep beep
"the beep is getting stronger!"
beep beep beep beep beep beep beep
"it's getting closer!"
beep beep beep beep beep BEEP BEEP BEEP!
"oh my gosh it's really close now!"
BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP
"oh it's a bit too close!"
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPP!!!
"niiice wolfie niiiiice wolfie NIIIICE! WOLFIE! NIIIIIIII.... NO WOLF! NO! GET BACK WOLF!!! AGHHH *spray* *spray* *more wolves* ARGH!! MUST CLIMB THE TREE!!"
Post by: PA BEN on July 18, 2018, 06:58:26 PM
Post by: Alpine Mojo on July 18, 2018, 07:43:14 PM
Just another part of the $30 million...
Post by: Nwgunner on July 18, 2018, 07:50:20 PM
http://www.capitalpress.com/Washington/20180718/wdfw-resisted-sending-copter-sheriff-to-save-woman-treed-by-wolves#disqus_thread.
Its pretty obvious that in this case WDFW valued the lives of these wolves more than that person.
I especially like the part where the DNR rep says that he just happened to be in a meeting with the biologist about grizzly bear re-introduction. Perfect... we got cougars killing people, wolves treeing people, but thats not enough. We need another apex predator.
On a side note, kudos to the county sheriff up there for not taking WDFW BS.
Post by: Special T on July 18, 2018, 08:34:09 PM
Naval officer, executive director of Liberty disaster relief, mountaineer, hunter fisherman, and I believe ran for state public lands commisioner.
I MADE A MISTAKE...
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Post by: bobcat on July 18, 2018, 08:40:56 PM
Post by: Special T on July 18, 2018, 08:42:41 PM
I made the mistake of giving the wrong source Mea Culpa! Sorry for the confusion...
Additionally all the things that are claimed have a written record. That is why I found it notable. Is it possible that he is blowing smoke? Sure, but he cites severalnprovable or disprovable statements.
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Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 09:15:35 PM
I follow CAPR because of the lost ability to drill wells in Skagit county. The Hirst decision would have made it state wide. They are fighting for water rights in the Skagit valley because there is a shortage of water where it rains 50 -100" a year...
I made the mistake of giving the wrong source Mea Culpa! Sorry for the confusion...
Additionally all the things that are claimed have a written record. That is why I found it notable. Is it possible that he is blowing smoke? Sure, but he cites severalnprovable or disprovable statements.
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No biggie, bud. We all make mistakes. I was just confused. Wasn’t trying to criticize. Hopefully it wasn’t taken that way.
Post by: Special T on July 18, 2018, 09:33:42 PM
Real men own their mistakes, and don't blame others. 2c
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Post by: R2Rcoulee on July 18, 2018, 09:50:59 PM
There is no cell phone service at Tiffany Springs.....FYI.
I hiked up to Little Tiffany Lake a couple weeks ago & had full bars with Verizon at honeymoon pass.
Post by: jackelope on July 18, 2018, 09:59:51 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 19, 2018, 03:26:33 AM
Verizon makes all the difference 😂
:dunno: but I thought everyone was within 1%.......
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 06:30:27 AM
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 07:22:11 AM
I read today that the USFS employee is from Utah.So?
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Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 19, 2018, 07:40:30 AM
There is no cell phone service at Tiffany Springs.....FYI.
I hiked up to Little Tiffany Lake a couple weeks ago & had full bars with Verizon at honeymoon pass.
No kidding. They didn't when I was up there a few years ago. My mistake.......
Post by: bobcat on July 19, 2018, 08:09:06 AM
I read today that the USFS employee is from Utah.So?
So... people are wanting to know who this person is, and this is the only information Ive seen so far. I don't really care who she is or what she was doing. But it does seem if they're wanting to keep her identity secret, they wouldn't want to even mention the fact that she's from Utah.
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 08:28:13 AM
That made me laugh out loud...
Post by: Widgeondeke on July 19, 2018, 09:45:58 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 09:54:14 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180719/d3c75105e2e2aa65686c7eb4e98b5f83.png)
Post by: trophyhunt on July 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2018, 10:13:24 AM
what the heck is a "kill zone"? anyways? Wolves have no such zone, a kill zone is just where it happens. Is she suggesting some government agency is baiting wolves with carcasses? I call BS on that.
I don't pay much attention to FB posts unless it's coming from a credible source.
Post by: bearpaw on July 19, 2018, 10:15:34 AM
I read today that the USFS employee is from Utah.So?
So... people are wanting to know who this person is, and this is the only information Ive seen so far. I don't really care who she is or what she was doing. But it does seem if they're wanting to keep her identity secret, they wouldn't want to even mention the fact that she's from Utah.
They keep a lot of people's identity secret anymore due to death threats by the wolf huggers on ranchers who have had cattle attacked, it's a precaution to prevent further threats. This is likely the reason the name isn't public. :twocents:
Post by: Curly on July 19, 2018, 10:21:08 AM
It's just a random person, according to her bio she's a "writer novelist" and used to work in an espresso shop, I'm not sure what expertise she has with wolves or USFWS, USFS or WDFW inner workings :dunno:
what the heck is a "kill zone"? anyways? Wolves have no such zone, a kill zone is just where it happens. Is she suggesting some government agency is baiting wolves with carcasses? I call BS on that.
I don't pay much attention to FB posts unless it's coming from a credible source.
I'm glad that post wasn't from Joel Kretz about kill zones. I thought he'd gone off the deep end. :o
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2018, 10:23:02 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 10:31:58 AM
I read today that the USFS employee is from Utah.So?
So... people are wanting to know who this person is, and this is the only information Ive seen so far. I don't really care who she is or what she was doing. But it does seem if they're wanting to keep her identity secret, they wouldn't want to even mention the fact that she's from Utah.
They keep a lot of people's identity secret anymore due to death threats by the wolf huggers on ranchers who have had cattle attacked, it's a precaution to prevent further threats. This is likely the reason the name isn't public. :twocents:
Agreed. I see no conspiracy theories or cover ups leaving her identity out of this.
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 10:32:59 AM
It's just a random person, according to her bio she's a "writer novelist" and used to work in an espresso shop, I'm not sure what expertise she has with wolves or USFWS, USFS or WDFW inner workings :dunno:
what the heck is a "kill zone"? anyways? Wolves have no such zone, a kill zone is just where it happens. Is she suggesting some government agency is baiting wolves with carcasses? I call BS on that.
I don't pay much attention to FB posts unless it's coming from a credible source.
I'm glad that post wasn't from Joel Kretz about kill zones. I thought he'd gone off the deep end. :o
Sorry... I didn't realize how that could be construed when I posted it. I should have better clarified.
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2018, 10:59:02 AM
I read today that the USFS employee is from Utah.So?
So... people are wanting to know who this person is, and this is the only information Ive seen so far. I don't really care who she is or what she was doing. But it does seem if they're wanting to keep her identity secret, they wouldn't want to even mention the fact that she's from Utah.
They keep a lot of people's identity secret anymore due to death threats by the wolf huggers on ranchers who have had cattle attacked, it's a precaution to prevent further threats. This is likely the reason the name isn't public. :twocents:
Agreed. I see no conspiracy theories or cover ups leaving her identity out of this.
agreed, I could care less who it was and agree with not releasing the employees name to the public. USFS dodged a bullet that she was able to get up a tree, they could have easily surrounded her in an area without easy to climb trees for escape. How long would the wolves have surrounded and harassed her if she couldn't climb a tree? Who knows how it would have played out.
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 11:11:18 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 19, 2018, 12:43:11 PM
I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.
This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 01:00:03 PM
I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.
This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
It seems to me, by reading here and elsewhere, that some think that since her identity is not being revealed, this is a sure sign that it’s some sort of coverup. Maybe I’m wrong, but if i am, I wish the people who are bellyaching about the lack of info on her identity would please solidify their reasons by sharing why they want to know who she is so bad.
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 01:24:40 PM
Post by: Special T on July 19, 2018, 01:31:07 PM
Isnt it obvious. Outdoor woman are hot, and anyone that can climb 30 feet into a tree has to be athletic. THey just want to contact her to see if she shaves her pits or not.Lol
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Post by: gaddy on July 19, 2018, 01:38:33 PM
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 02:29:03 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 19, 2018, 02:50:45 PM
I don't care who she is, or what she was doing. The fact is that she was in a tree with threatening wolves below, witnessed by the helicopter crew. The wolves were clearly a threat to human life and need to be taken out. The issues with the different agencies involved and who did what need to be dealt with for sure, but as to the who was in the tree and what they were doing makes no difference to me. Wolves were after a person and they need to be put down. They have tracking info on a collared wolf indicating the pack involved, go get them.:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: 1,000% agree!! Wth are they doing about those piticular wolves?????? Sounds like someone needs to go hiking in that area w an AR, they wolves are sure to do the same thing again!
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 19, 2018, 02:54:11 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
Post by: bobcat on July 19, 2018, 02:56:03 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on July 19, 2018, 03:04:00 PM
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 03:06:59 PM
Post by: Curly on July 19, 2018, 03:10:08 PM
:tinfoil:
Very interesting. :o
Post by: Special T on July 19, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
Ill spice this up a bit. Utah passed a law making it ok to relocate wolves out of state, listing USFWS as a funding source for this activity. Coincidence this gal is from Utah?Wow.... and everyone was saying I wear a tinfoil hat for just asking some questions because there was no explanation, no good reasoning, and a lack of trust....
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Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2018, 03:15:01 PM
I don't think these particular wolves are any different than other wolves. I bet in the same scenario, just a different location and different wolves, the same thing would've happened. So if these wolves need to be killed because of what they did, then all wolves need to be killed. Kind of like, in my opinion, ALL wolves will kill livestock if given the opportunity.
Already documented, several different people have been tree'd or shot at wolves in self defense.
So yes, shoot on sight is a good idea and as horrible as that sounds to a wolf conservationist it wouldn't hurt the overall population much, and in some areas it wouldn't hurt the population at all.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on July 19, 2018, 03:30:43 PM
Re: Report Washington Wolf Sightings Here - Estimated at 101+
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2011, 11:37:24 PM »
Quote
Really frightening encounter South of Rennie Peak... I overnighted Sunday and was on a solo trip into the Lake Chelan Rec Area...glassed all day in anticipation of the high hunt opener on Thursday and found no deer... at 1 PM I spotted a dead head 4x5 in the bottom of the draw.... found nothing else to look at so finally at about 4 PM I decided to go check it out... had a pretty good rock and a clump of red grass to use as reference when I got down there. I got down in elevation and through the trees... there was my rock and clump of grass, but where was the dead head? I walked around the rock to find a den :yike:... there was old decaying hide outside it (I never did get to see the dead head up close) and I started to back away when I was startled to see a pair of VERY unhappy wolves about 40 yards from me. Very tense times! After much todo, I got back up the ridge realizing I left my spotting scope up top and that nobody would believe me without photos so I went back to get it and took a few quick photos through the spotting scope as they checked their den I will post later. The wolves (I only always saw 2 at one time but at one point there was one above me and 20 seconds later 2 below me) escorted me about a mile out of the area. I hiked 7+ grueling and tiring miles out this evening partially in need of my headlamp. Heads up to anyone planning on hunting that area for the high hunt... I'd suggest finding another place due to a low deer-to-wolf ratio. :twocents: I'll be talking to the bios tomorrow about this encounter... none of the wolves were collared, so follow-up to come.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 01:19:54 AM by hirshey »
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 19, 2018, 03:59:07 PM
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 04:17:27 PM
Ill spice this up a bit. Utah passed a law making it ok to relocate wolves out of state, listing USFWS as a funding source for this activity. Coincidence this gal is from Utah?It is very difficult to get hired into a desirable job by the feds in your home state. It can take some people 30 years to move "home". Heck, for a long time there were a sizable portion of WDFW Officers who grew up outside of WA. Where she's from has no bearing on this matter.
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 04:29:00 PM
We know enough. She was a USFS employee doing a stream survey which could be counting fish, prepping for a timber sale, etc. it really doesn't matter. If you got chased up a tree would there be a difference in any way if you were a) out hiking or b) out scouting? No of course not, all that matters is you had a confrontation with wolves.Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
And again, she doesn't have to speak to the local authorities, no crime was committed, and even if there were a crime this is the US, you don't have to speak to LE if you don't want to. It's amazing how many people on here say "never talk to the cops" but yet are bashing her for doing exactly that, I must have forgotten there was a wolf exception to that 'rule'.
All they need to know is she got chased up the tree by wolves. The helicopter pilot even saw the wolves, they could tell you how many there were if they really wanted to know.
Post by: Oh Mah on July 19, 2018, 04:54:02 PM
Don't we have a right to know who what when where and how much some group is spending,what their doing,why they are doing it and all that?I feel that with the story at face value the wdfw put the ? out here.Why not want the helicopter to rescue?
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 05:07:47 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 05:09:40 PM
:yeah:The department responsible for what?Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
I wondered that as well.
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 05:10:35 PM
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 05:11:37 PM
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 05:12:55 PM
http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/archive/2017/02/10/3f70199a-ef1a-11e6-94b9-ef89df8d8d64/#.W1ElXBZlCaM (http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/archive/2017/02/10/3f70199a-ef1a-11e6-94b9-ef89df8d8d64/#.W1ElXBZlCaM)Sorry to burst your bubble but she's not a USFS employee. And that is public knowledge.
https://www.fs.fed.us/about-agency/contact-us/employee-search?first_name=&last_name=Tallian+&office=
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 05:15:12 PM
I posed the question on their Facebook open forum discussing their 30 million dollar debt. I wanted to know how much is spent on wolf recovery every year. Several others seconded the question. They refused to answer. @kirkl and I will probably be in the loser lounge forever.
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 05:21:20 PM
http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/archive/2017/02/10/3f70199a-ef1a-11e6-94b9-ef89df8d8d64/#.W1ElXBZlCaM (http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/archive/2017/02/10/3f70199a-ef1a-11e6-94b9-ef89df8d8d64/#.W1ElXBZlCaM)Sorry to burst your bubble but she's not a USFS employee. And that is public knowledge.
https://www.fs.fed.us/about-agency/contact-us/employee-search?first_name=&last_name=Tallian+&office=
She probably has friends. Lol
“ Aimee Tallian poses in front of Pelican Valley winter base camp, where she and other members of her crew study wolf interactions....”.
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 05:25:48 PM
Not everything is a conspiracy. One of the luxuries of being a federal employee is being able to take temporary assignments all over the US, similar to how state employees bounce all over a state. There are federal game wardens from all over the US in Texas right now doing border enforcement, or are they??? Maybe the real reason is they're capturing wolves from Mexico and bringing them to their home states! :oShe probably has friends. Lolhttp://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/archive/2017/02/10/3f70199a-ef1a-11e6-94b9-ef89df8d8d64/#.W1ElXBZlCaM (http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/archive/2017/02/10/3f70199a-ef1a-11e6-94b9-ef89df8d8d64/#.W1ElXBZlCaM)Sorry to burst your bubble but she's not a USFS employee. And that is public knowledge.
https://www.fs.fed.us/about-agency/contact-us/employee-search?first_name=&last_name=Tallian+&office=
“ Aimee Tallian poses in front of Pelican Valley winter base camp, where she and other members of her crew study wolf interactions....”.
Post by: boneaddict on July 19, 2018, 05:27:27 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on July 19, 2018, 05:28:31 PM
And some more heat..... there’s a female Utah biologist studying the impact of Grizzly and wolf interactions. Say it ain’t so.:tinfoil:
I only see one issue that needs some looking into...and that is WDFWs initial response or request they not send a helicopter to pick this lady up. They corrected the mistake quickly and acknowledged it was a screw up...but if there is a need for any inquiry that's it.
Any of these questions about who this lady was, who she worked for, and what work she was doing addresses nothing. What are those of you advocating the need for this type of information thinking this will solve?
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 05:30:41 PM
AgreedAnd some more heat..... there’s a female Utah biologist studying the impact of Grizzly and wolf interactions. Say it ain’t so.:tinfoil:
I only see one issue that needs some looking into...and that is WDFWs initial response or request they not send a helicopter to pick this lady up. They corrected the mistake quickly and acknowledged it was a screw up...but if there is a need for any inquiry that's it.
Any of these questions about who this lady was, who she worked for, and what work she was doing addresses nothing. What are those of you advocating the need for this type of information thinking this will solve?
Post by: Oh Mah on July 19, 2018, 05:32:45 PM
Im sure I’ll never draw a tag again. Lol:dunno: Why would you think you will never get drawn again?
I posed the question on their Facebook open forum discussing their 30 million dollar debt. I wanted to know how much is spent on wolf recovery every year. Several others seconded the question. They refused to answer. @kirkl and I will probably be in the loser lounge forever.
Post by: idahohuntr on July 19, 2018, 05:36:03 PM
Well, If you don't cut holes in your tinfoil hat - its hard to enter the right hunt number in your online application and it's impossible to draw if you enter invalid hunt codes. :dunno: :chuckle:Im sure I’ll never draw a tag again. Lol:dunno: Why would you think you will never get drawn again?
I posed the question on their Facebook open forum discussing their 30 million dollar debt. I wanted to know how much is spent on wolf recovery every year. Several others seconded the question. They refused to answer. @kirkl and I will probably be in the loser lounge forever.
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2018, 05:38:59 PM
He's being sarcasticIm sure I’ll never draw a tag again. Lol:dunno: Why would you think you will never get drawn again?
I posed the question on their Facebook open forum discussing their 30 million dollar debt. I wanted to know how much is spent on wolf recovery every year. Several others seconded the question. They refused to answer. @kirkl and I will probably be in the loser lounge forever.
Post by: Jpmiller on July 19, 2018, 05:55:20 PM
Not everything is a conspiracy. One of the luxuries of being a federal employee is being able to take temporary assignments all over the US, similar to how state employees bounce all over a state. There are federal game wardens from all over the US in Texas right now doing border enforcement, or are they??? Maybe the real reason is they're capturing wolves from Mexico and bringing them to their home states! :oShe probably has friends. Lolhttp://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/archive/2017/02/10/3f70199a-ef1a-11e6-94b9-ef89df8d8d64/#.W1ElXBZlCaM (http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/archive/2017/02/10/3f70199a-ef1a-11e6-94b9-ef89df8d8d64/#.W1ElXBZlCaM)Sorry to burst your bubble but she's not a USFS employee. And that is public knowledge.
https://www.fs.fed.us/about-agency/contact-us/employee-search?first_name=&last_name=Tallian+&office=
“ Aimee Tallian poses in front of Pelican Valley winter base camp, where she and other members of her crew study wolf interactions....”.
Now pretty soon I'm going to start seeing stories about the game warden who lesked that his Co workers are trapping wolves in Mexico for reintroduction. Thanks :chuckle:
Post by: wolfbait on July 19, 2018, 06:47:17 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Post by: cbond3318 on July 19, 2018, 06:49:09 PM
She was clearly releasing wolves , again, while researching a possible salmon source for the Grizzly introduction secretly scheduled for next Tuesday, The Mucks funded it, Putin signed off on it and Hillary thought of it. Wait till MAGA finds out!
Post by: kirkl on July 19, 2018, 07:00:11 PM
Im sure I’ll never draw a tag again. LolLol, I’ll be right there with ya brother. I asked that question multiple times on there posts and they refuse to answer the question.
I posed the question on their Facebook open forum discussing their 30 million dollar debt. I wanted to know how much is spent on wolf recovery every year. Several others seconded the question. They refused to answer. @kirkl and I will probably be in the loser lounge forever.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 19, 2018, 07:01:38 PM
Putin signed off on it...........Wait till MAGA finds out!
He will touch himself
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 07:37:05 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Don’t ever go into the woods alone, man. There’s no telling what wild animal could attack with no warning. Before you know it you’ll be up a tree.
Post by: Dan-o on July 19, 2018, 07:46:50 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Don’t ever go into the woods alone, man. There’s no telling what wild animal could attack with no warning. Before you know it you’ll be up a tree.
That's not a fair comparison.
Hundreds of people get bitten by chipmunks every year.
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 07:48:21 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 07:49:20 PM
I’ve never been bitten by a chipmunk, but I know it’s possible so I’m on my toes. I keep my wits about me and never let my guard down. Never turn your back on them. They’ll take full advantage at any sign of weakness. Always keep a tree between you and them and you’ll be fine.
Now that I’ve told you all this, you’ll all be safe too. Unless you’re not safe, in which case you didn’t hear they were harmless from me.
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 07:50:36 PM
(That’s a whole lot of seriouses)
Post by: DeerHarvester on July 19, 2018, 08:17:30 PM
Quote from: bigtex
[/quote
[/quote
Sheriff Rogers (and others) has also deputized USFS and DNR LEOs in his county giving them countywide authority instead of authority just on their agency lands.
It's amazing how many sheriffs portray themselves as "anti-fed" yet work with the feds all the time, including even deputizing them. Sheriff's are politicians, they know what they need to say to get elected.
Not entirely true. Only one USFS LEO is cross commissioned in Okanogan County. This is so USFS can handle incidents on Forrest service campgrounds and such. NO DNR employees are commissioned under sheriff Rogers.
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Post by: DeerHarvester on July 19, 2018, 08:28:56 PM
We have this FB group. They're a private property rights group but have lots of anti-wolf and anti-government sounding stuff on their FB page. Also at least 1 article about the mountain goat relocation project.
We have the sheriff.
We have the candidate for the head of the DNR position.
We have WDFW
We have USFS
WE have USFWS
Who'd I miss??
The detective, who is running for sheriff because the present one is not running
No detectives are running for Okanogan County Sheriff. All of their info is public record.
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Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 19, 2018, 08:34:23 PM
Campmeat said, "Sound off bigtex.............and please give statutes etc. in your response."Sheriff Rogers (and others) has also deputized USFS and DNR LEOs in his county giving them countywide authority instead of authority just on their agency lands.
I suggest you go to YOUR local elected Sheriff and ask him or her that question!
I and others did during the Methow Valley's water war with the state and Feds. Sheriff Rogers response was "Yes I would have any trespasser on your property's arrested including FBI agents." "as your elected official I am top dog when it comes to enforcing the law." As a "elected" official they have the authority and power over any appointed/hired LEO.
It's amazing how many sheriffs portray themselves as "anti-fed" yet work with the feds all the time, including even deputizing them. Sheriff's are politicians, they know what they need to say to get elected.
Not entirely true. Only one USFS LEO is cross commissioned in Okanogan County. This is so USFS can handle incidents on Forrest service campgrounds and such. NO DNR employees are commissioned under sheriff Rogers.
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Which quote are you talking about ?
Post by: Jpmiller on July 19, 2018, 08:50:36 PM
I’ve never been bitten by a chipmunk, but I know it’s possible so I’m on my toes. I keep my wits about me and never let my guard down. Never turn your back on them. They’ll take full advantage at any sign of weakness. Always keep a tree between you and them and you’ll be fine.
Now that I’ve told you all this, you’ll all be safe too. Unless you’re not safe, in which case you didn’t hear they were harmless from me.
And here I thought the woods were a good place to relax. Thanks for the heads up, won't make that mistake again.
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 08:51:32 PM
I’ve never been bitten by a chipmunk, but I know it’s possible so I’m on my toes. I keep my wits about me and never let my guard down. Never turn your back on them. They’ll take full advantage at any sign of weakness. Always keep a tree between you and them and you’ll be fine.
Now that I’ve told you all this, you’ll all be safe too. Unless you’re not safe, in which case you didn’t hear they were harmless from me.
And here I thought the woods were a good place to relax. Thanks for the heads up, won't make that mistake again.
You must be new to the woods. There’s danger around every corner.
Post by: wolfbait on July 19, 2018, 08:53:55 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Don’t ever go into the woods alone, man. There’s no telling what wild animal could attack with no warning. Before you know it you’ll be up a tree.
That's pretty good jack, down play the dangers of wolves.
I would imagine that if folks knew of the many other human/wolf encounters that didn't reflect well for the wolves, there would be more of a push for management, something your friends at WDFW and CNW are not in favor of.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 19, 2018, 08:55:19 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 09:03:36 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Don’t ever go into the woods alone, man. There’s no telling what wild animal could attack with no warning. Before you know it you’ll be up a tree.
That's pretty good jack, down play the dangers of wolves.
I would imagine that if folks knew of the many other human/wolf encounters that didn't reflect well for the wolves, there would be more of a push for management, something your friends at WDFW and CNW are not in favor of.
Hey I’d never downplay the danger of wolves. I also don’t need some gov’t agency to tell me they’re potentially dangerous either. I’m smart enough to know better and not use it as some card in a game you seem to like to play in an attempt to insult people. Keep digging...
Post by: wolfbait on July 19, 2018, 09:13:13 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Don’t ever go into the woods alone, man. There’s no telling what wild animal could attack with no warning. Before you know it you’ll be up a tree.
That's pretty good jack, down play the dangers of wolves.
I would imagine that if folks knew of the many other human/wolf encounters that didn't reflect well for the wolves, there would be more of a push for management, something your friends at WDFW and CNW are not in favor of.
Hey I’d never downplay the danger of wolves. I also don’t need some gov’t agency to tell me they’re potentially dangerous either. I’m smart enough to know better and not use it as some card in a game you seem to like to play in an attempt to insult people. Keep digging...
I didn't think we were talking about you, this is about other people who believe WDFW etc. when they read that wolves are timid etc..
I have talk to quite a few who didn't think wolves would attack a person, and with WDFW etc. refusing to report wolf/human attacks it is not good for the people who are naive.
Much of the internet has been scrub of the wolf attack info. we had ten years ago, and there was quite a bit of it.
For you to say that people shouldn't be warned about wolves, knowing what we know and having had bad wolf/people situations happen in WA, seems very irresponsible.
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 09:15:38 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Don’t ever go into the woods alone, man. There’s no telling what wild animal could attack with no warning. Before you know it you’ll be up a tree.
That's pretty good jack, down play the dangers of wolves.
I would imagine that if folks knew of the many other human/wolf encounters that didn't reflect well for the wolves, there would be more of a push for management, something your friends at WDFW and CNW are not in favor of.
Hey I’d never downplay the danger of wolves. I also don’t need some gov’t agency to tell me they’re potentially dangerous either. I’m smart enough to know better and not use it as some card in a game you seem to like to play in an attempt to insult people. Keep digging...
I didn't think we were talking about you, this is about other people who believe WDFW etc. when they read that wolves are timid etc..
I have talk to quite a few who didn't think wolves would attack a person, and with WDFW etc. refusing to report wolf/human attacks it is not good for the people who are naive.
Much of the internet has been scrub of the wolf attack info. we had ten years ago, and there was quite a bit of it.
For you to say that people shouldn't be warned about wolves, knowing what we know and having had bad wolf/people situations happen in WA, seems very irresponsible.
I didn’t say they shouldn’t be warned. I said they shouldn’t have to be warned.
“Hey don’t point that loaded gun at your face”
Get it?
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 19, 2018, 09:22:34 PM
No detectives are running for Okanogan County Sheriff. All of their info is public record.
Too bad, so sad. You are wrong.
If you had looked at this public information, you would not have made this mistake.
Better luck next time.
Source:
1) Methow Valley News, http://methowvalleynews.com/2018/07/12/six-candidates-vie-to-become-next-okanogan-county-sheriff/
2) This thread, quote from Steve Mclaughlan's website
Post by: wolfbait on July 19, 2018, 09:30:29 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Don’t ever go into the woods alone, man. There’s no telling what wild animal could attack with no warning. Before you know it you’ll be up a tree.
That's pretty good jack, down play the dangers of wolves.
I would imagine that if folks knew of the many other human/wolf encounters that didn't reflect well for the wolves, there would be more of a push for management, something your friends at WDFW and CNW are not in favor of.
Hey I’d never downplay the danger of wolves. I also don’t need some gov’t agency to tell me they’re potentially dangerous either. I’m smart enough to know better and not use it as some card in a game you seem to like to play in an attempt to insult people. Keep digging...
I didn't think we were talking about you, this is about other people who believe WDFW etc. when they read that wolves are timid etc..
I have talk to quite a few who didn't think wolves would attack a person, and with WDFW etc. refusing to report wolf/human attacks it is not good for the people who are naive.
Much of the internet has been scrub of the wolf attack info. we had ten years ago, and there was quite a bit of it.
For you to say that people shouldn't be warned about wolves, knowing what we know and having had bad wolf/people situations happen in WA, seems very irresponsible.
I didn’t say they shouldn’t be warned. I said they shouldn’t have to be warned.
“Hey don’t point that loaded gun at your face”
Get it?
And why shouldn't they have to be warned? WDFW etc. have misrepresented wolf behavior, wolves aren't timid creatures unless they have been shot at frequently, like coyotes for example.
Quite sure most people would rather be warned then to have to shoot thirty feet up a tree to get away from WDFW's timid wolves. Or not have a gun and need one.
Post by: Caseyd on July 19, 2018, 09:37:10 PM
No detectives are running for Okanogan County Sheriff. All of their info is public record.
Too bad, so sad. You are wrong.
If you had looked at this public information, you would not have made this mistake.
Better luck next time.
Source:
1) Methow Valley News, http://methowvalleynews.com/2018/07/12/six-candidates-vie-to-become-next-okanogan-county-sheriff/
2) This thread, quote from Steve Mclaughlan's website
I’m going to assume deerharvester was trying to be technical since Brown is currently a commander. Deerharvester what’s your rank? And which one of your Co workers will you be voting for? I think there’s several qualified candidates running and should be an interesting race.
Post by: Oh Mah on July 19, 2018, 10:12:14 PM
OH :chuckle: i see now.The thread has lightened up(which is better than where it was going) :tup:He's being sarcasticIm sure I’ll never draw a tag again. Lol:dunno: Why would you think you will never get drawn again?
I posed the question on their Facebook open forum discussing their 30 million dollar debt. I wanted to know how much is spent on wolf recovery every year. Several others seconded the question. They refused to answer. @kirkl and I will probably be in the loser lounge forever.
Post by: Special T on July 19, 2018, 10:26:30 PM
Bigtex stated that the usfs wouldn't be doing salmon survey work, NOAA would. One of the rescue crew in the chopper said there was a directional antenna. The lady is said to work for USFS from Utah, and the WDFW tried to cancel the help rescue.
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Post by: DeerHarvester on July 19, 2018, 10:38:30 PM
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Post by: bearpaw on July 19, 2018, 10:53:43 PM
From the facebook page of Steve McLoughlin (appears he is running for public lands commissioner):
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcLaughlin4lands/posts/1872262686145222
Quote
Steve McLaughlin- Protecting the Public Trust
July 13 at 6:58 PM ·
OKANOGAN WOLF INCIDENT UPDATE
On July 12, a forest service worker conducting a watershed study was surrounded and was forced to evade a wolfpack by climbing a tree.
Update:
1. A WA Department of Natural Resources Helicopter was dispatched to the scene by the NE Washington Inter-Agency Communications Center in Colville.
2. WDFW told the helicopter crew to stand down. In the interest of public safety, the crew continued on their mission and effected the rescue of the FS employee. Upon arrival at the scene, the flight crew spotted several wolves surrounded the tree where the FS employee was taking refuge. OKANOGAN COUNTY DEPUTIES WERE NOT PRESENT DURING THE RESCUE.
3. Lethal removal of wolves was authorized by the Okanogan County Sheriff's Incident Commander. This call was supported by Sheriff Rogers. NO WOLVES WERE KILLED.
4. Okanogan County Chief Criminal Deputy Steve Brown launched an investigation to determine if wolves in the area of Tiffany Springs could pose a threat to the public.
5. On 13 July, Deputy Brown and a team of investigators drove to the scene and began to proceed to the scene of the incident. Enroute to the incident, the investigation team encountered USFWS Biologist, Gregg Kurz and WDFW wolf specialist, Benjamin Maletzke. A conversation ensued. When asked, KURZ told Deputy Brown that the girl would not provide her name for security reasons. Deputies are still trying to get her name for investigative purposes and I will not provide her name for her own safety. KURZ also said the employee did not flee, but instead deployed repellent. KURZ said the employee was ineffective, so she climbed a tree to evade the threat. KURZ also informed Deputy Brown that the scene of the incident was actually a wolf rendezvous site.
6. KURZ also informed Deputy Brown that if he proceeded to the site, he would be charged with interfering with a federally protected species. Deputy Brown told KURZ that he faced arrest for impeding an active investigation. Deputy Brown and team proceeded about 1 mile to the incident scene.
7. While enroute to the scene, deputies located game cameras and a well cut trail to the site. During the conversation w/ KURZ, deputies were informed that the route to the incident was quite a distance away and there was significant deadfall along the route, contrary to what deputies found.
OPINIONS:
1. Many thanks to my friend Commissioner Franz for the use of the helicopter and aircrew as well as affecting the rescue!
2. WDFW showed incredibly poor judgment in calling on the helicopter crew to stand down when human life was threatened. the flight crew deserves a reward for their actions
3. OKSO deputies were correct in their decision to exercise lethal control if it was necessary as this was a rescue situation from threatening wolves. I encourage those reading this to see my previous post on the stages of habituation to human activity. The Sheriff's office had the authority to act, the duty to act, and they were correct in their decisions.
5. KURZ and MALETZKE impeded an official investigation and lied during questioning to a deputy (Chief Criminal Deputy Brown) by not providing the name of the FS employee, by failing to provide information about wolf presence during the rescue, by lying to Deputy Brown about the distance to the scene and the condition of the route.
COMMENTS:
1. WDFW MUST stop the lying and withholding of information to the public about wolf presence. WDFW is creating A PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE FOR WDFW and USFWS. In the wolf management plan, the WDFW will partner with ranchers and the public to minimize wolf/human/livestock conflict. Clearly the partnership is broken because the department is not acting in good faith. Each partner should act in a manner that contributes the the success of the other partner!.
2. My comment stands about the need to remove the WDFW conflict specialist for failing to act and for calling the FS employee "Stupid!"
I'm certain there is more to follow. We'll see how truthful WDFW really is.....or isn't!
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcLaughlin4lands/posts/1879607178744106
Quote
Steve McLaughlin- Protecting the Public Trust
Yesterday at 12:04 PM ·
Wolf rescue incident #3:DISTURBING ISSUES REMAIN AFTER THE TIFFANY SPRINGS WOLF INCIDENT – USFS, USFWS AND WDFW – IT’S TIME TO COME OUT INTO THE LIGHT OF DAY!
On 12 July, a young USFS (According to a Capital Press article released today, we don’t really even know who she’s working for) employee was rescued by a Washington Department of Natural Resources Flight Crew. I spent time yesterday reviewing the dispatch tapes from the incident and I would personally like to commend Jill at NEWICC, the Okanogan County 911 Dispatcher, and the DNR flight crew! Their decision to go ahead with the rescue in spite of pushback from the wildlife agencies resulted in a speedy rescue. As we used to say in the Navy for a job well done, BRAVO ZULU!
But, the tapes reveal some interesting questions about the wildlife agencies and the Forest Service! New facts are emerging and these take up from where I left off in my previous postings.
FACTS:
1. During the 6 taped dialogs between the Okanogan Dispatcher and NEWICC (Jill), there was a specific time when Jill told the Okanogan Dispatcher that WDFW said the incident was a “Wildlife issue and not a Search and Rescue (SAR).
2. A joint statement by WDFW and USFWS public information officers (PIO’s) indicated that human life takes precedence over wildlife.
3. Outside stories said the USFS employee was conducting a salmon study in the area. According to sources, there are no salmon in that area
4. According to comments made during the rescue, the USFS employee was seen in the tree holding some telemetry equipment.
5. In a County Commissioners deposition, the Okanogan Sheriffs Office told the rescued employee to stay at Omak airport until the deputies arrived in order to interview her.
6. Before the deputies arrived at the airport, a USFS vehicle arrived at Omak airport and took the employee away. She has not been seen or heard from since the incident
7. The Tonasket Ranger District has not deployed any USFS employees to the field since this incident occurred.
8. WDFW and/or USFWS trappers are operating in the area of the Loup loup wolfpack.
Opinions:
1. WDFW DID try to shut down the DNR and OCSO rescue operation so they could affect the rescue. In the dispatch tapes, NEWICC (Jill) clearly states she was told this was a wildlife issue and not a SAR. This action runs contrary to what the joint WDFW/USFWS PIO statement suggests. What are these agencies hiding? Was this order given by WDFW Officer Troutman?
2. WDFW in cooperation with the USFWS and likely with the University of Washington are conducting an ungulate study throughout known wolf populated areas in Washington. In earlier field research I am conducting in other counties, I was told that a significant portion of the UW work may be occurring in the Northern Cascade ecosystem (the rescue scene is in the NC ecosystem). Is this what the employee was really doing? Where are the salmon streams in the Tiffany Springs area? The actions and activities of the WDFW, USFWS and USFS in this area requires more investigation and these agencies should come into the light of day.
3. The USFS for some reason did not want the rescued employee to speak with deputies. However, the deputies investigating the rescue told the employee to stay at the airport so they could interview her. By her leaving, she and those who took her away from the airport could face criminal charges for impeding an official investigation. Why did the USFS not allow the rescued person to speak with deputies?
4. There are only two reasons why the Tonasket Ranger District would be keeping employees close to home; the first and preferred reason would be in order to conduct a safety stand down and revise work protocols in areas where there are known apex predators. However, given the past conduct of the USFS District Ranger over his career, it seems more likely the employees are being directed on what to say about the rescue situation and about the operations surrounding studies in the Tiffany Springs and other areas of the county.
5. It should be reiterated that the sheriff has full authority over ALL law activities in his/her county over all other agencies. While many sheriff’s choose to cooperate with state and federal agencies, the sheriff has the right and duty to act when these agencies get out of hand.
Comments:
1. So, the plot thickens! What is really going on in the region near the rescue site? Salmon? I doubt it.
2. Back in the 1980’s a U.S. Navy ship came across a load of Vietnamese boat people who were in poor health and in bad condition on the high seas. The ship’s commanding officer ordered his crew to give the people water and food, but to not embark them onboard as the ship was on a timeline to make it to an exercise. The commanding officer was relieved of his duties for his failing to rescue those in peril. FOR AN OFFICER OF ANY LOCAL, STATE OR FEDERAL AGENCY TO STATE THE ISSUE WAS A WILDLIFE ISSUE and NOT a SAR ISSUE IS BEHAVING IN THE SAME MANNER as the ship’s commanding officer. Yet WDFW, USFS and USFWS is covering up something the public has the right to know and the need to know about in the interest of public safety!
3. For too long, these agencies have gotten away with shell games, lies, moving the goalposts and treating American citizens with disdain. ITS TIME TO CLEAN IT UP!
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 10:58:29 PM
Just because you are part of a rescue operation doesn't mean your name needs to be plastered everywhere. As for the sheriff's "investigation" it's political and not legally based. There's no law that says the sheriff (or any LE agency) has to investigate what happened. The sheriff is simply going on along the "public safety" route, well there's no law that says you have to ID yourself when an agency is investigating something for "public safety" reasons.I'd wonder if all the people wanting to know who she was and who she worked for would post in this thread their name, their job and the location where they live. Especially any of those who work for the government.This is not really a pertinent analogy though. She's a public employee as well as being involved in a rescue operation which was reported by the news and investigated by the county sheriff. I don't see any parallel between her situation and someone taking part in an online forum. :dunno:
Heck, I'm sure she probably got cut up and may have some psychological issues from this, hello HIPPA protection.
Well, that's what usually happens when the government has to spend thousands of dollars to go rescue someone out of the wilderness. Personally, I don't care who she is as long as we can get to the bottom of the story. That's where the rub is. Without knowing who she is, we're going to have a hard time pinpointing the responsible department and exactly what they were doing there and why they whisked her away before the local authorities had a chance to question her for information which could be used to keep locals safe. It certainly wasn't a salmon count and it was handled oddly.
The department responsible for what?
Here's the thing. Wolves are wild animals. They could be dangerous to people. So could bears. So could lions. So could raccoons. People shouldn't need to be told that. If you do, you might consider taking up a new hobby.
Typical load of BS.
Not quite right there jack, I have run into several folks from different parts of the country who seem to think wolves don't attack people, they are shy timid creatures etc.. So you say the people shouldn't need to be told that there have been several human/wolf attacks. I bet WDFW are cheering you on right now, because they sure as hell haven't been honest with the public in that department either.
Why doesn't the USFWS, WDFW report to the public about the wolf attacks where the wolf was shot, investigated and proven to be legit? Or even the reports of wolves following/stalking people in the Okanogan? They wouldn't be trying to hide the many wolf/human conflicts would they? Maybe keep the same BS stories they have told about the wolves being shy creatures in the forefront?
We wouldn't be hearing about this story if it hadn't involved the sheriff office or DNR, it would be like all the others, hidden from the public.
How long would it have taken to get a wolf pack confirmed if there wouldn't have been a 911 call of a wolf pack hanging out at a school buss stop? People had lost stock to the wolves, reported wolves in several different areas, and WDFW ignore all of them, except they couldn't get around the 911 call.
Carry on jack, you'r doing just dandy....
Don’t ever go into the woods alone, man. There’s no telling what wild animal could attack with no warning. Before you know it you’ll be up a tree.
That's pretty good jack, down play the dangers of wolves.
I would imagine that if folks knew of the many other human/wolf encounters that didn't reflect well for the wolves, there would be more of a push for management, something your friends at WDFW and CNW are not in favor of.
Hey I’d never downplay the danger of wolves. I also don’t need some gov’t agency to tell me they’re potentially dangerous either. I’m smart enough to know better and not use it as some card in a game you seem to like to play in an attempt to insult people. Keep digging...
I didn't think we were talking about you, this is about other people who believe WDFW etc. when they read that wolves are timid etc..
I have talk to quite a few who didn't think wolves would attack a person, and with WDFW etc. refusing to report wolf/human attacks it is not good for the people who are naive.
Much of the internet has been scrub of the wolf attack info. we had ten years ago, and there was quite a bit of it.
For you to say that people shouldn't be warned about wolves, knowing what we know and having had bad wolf/people situations happen in WA, seems very irresponsible.
I didn’t say they shouldn’t be warned. I said they shouldn’t have to be warned.
“Hey don’t point that loaded gun at your face”
Get it?
And why shouldn't they have to be warned? WDFW etc. have misrepresented wolf behavior, wolves aren't timid creatures unless they have been shot at frequently, like coyotes for example.
Quite sure most people would rather be warned then to have to shoot thirty feet up a tree to get away from WDFW's timid wolves. Or not have a gun and need one.
You sound like some hippy from Seattle living in a nanny state where people have to tell you to tie your shoes so you don’t trip over your own shoe laces. If they don’t tell you, then you feel like it’s not your fault and you’ll want to blame/sue someone for not telling you to be careful of yourself. I know you’re smarter than that.
Is
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2018, 11:03:02 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on July 19, 2018, 11:05:19 PM
Post by: DeerHarvester on July 19, 2018, 11:15:30 PM
Deerharvester...........why do you even huntwa anymore.... :chuckle:
Great question
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Post by: O. hemionus on July 19, 2018, 11:19:05 PM
I think the public should be informed of any and all wolf attacks in Washington. The WDFW, USFWS, DNR etc work for us. They report on every coyote sighting in Seattle and call out the SWAT teams and plaster it all over the news,,,,,,
Also @wolfbait
WDFW is mandated to report dangerous wildlife incidents (involving cougar, grizzly bear, and wolves). Maps and summaries, with stars for incidents in the past year. The whole nine yards at your fingertips! Now don't get too worked up yet just because this recent incident isn't uploaded on the site. I'm guessing it would be on there soon once all the facts and stories get straightened out.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/living/dangerous/reports/index.php
Post by: Miles on July 20, 2018, 03:04:59 AM
Post by: bigtex on July 20, 2018, 04:30:22 AM
Not according to DNR. According to DNR their LEOs are deputized in Okanogan. And I was provided with the MOU.Quote from: bigtex
[/quoteSheriff Rogers (and others) has also deputized USFS and DNR LEOs in his county giving them countywide authority instead of authority just on their agency lands.
It's amazing how many sheriffs portray themselves as "anti-fed" yet work with the feds all the time, including even deputizing them. Sheriff's are politicians, they know what they need to say to get elected.
Not entirely true. Only one USFS LEO is cross commissioned in Okanogan County. This is so USFS can handle incidents on Forrest service campgrounds and such. NO DNR employees are commissioned under sheriff Rogers.
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Post by: bigtex on July 20, 2018, 04:33:52 AM
Lets focus on the discrepancies that are plausible, known and provable.I didn't say USFS wouldn't be doing salmon survey work. I said USFWS wouldn't be doing it. USFS has biologists for fish/wildlife on their lands, just like other agencies.
Bigtex stated that the usfs wouldn't be doing salmon survey work, NOAA would. One of the rescue crew in the chopper said there was a directional antenna. The lady is said to work for USFS from Utah, and the WDFW tried to cancel the help rescue.
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Post by: wolfbait on July 20, 2018, 06:30:54 AM
I think the public should be informed of any and all wolf attacks in Washington. The WDFW, USFWS, DNR etc work for us. They report on every coyote sighting in Seattle and call out the SWAT teams and plaster it all over the news,,,,,,
Also @wolfbait
WDFW is mandated to report dangerous wildlife incidents (involving cougar, grizzly bear, and wolves). Maps and summaries, with stars for incidents in the past year. The whole nine yards at your fingertips! Now don't get too worked up yet just because this recent incident isn't uploaded on the site. I'm guessing it would be on there soon once all the facts and stories get straightened out.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/living/dangerous/reports/index.php
Yep, I have watched their reporting in the past, funny how lacking it is, like there wolf count.
Post by: Special T on July 20, 2018, 06:43:02 AM
I'm sorry your response confuses me.can you restate?Lets focus on the discrepancies that are plausible, known and provable.I didn't say USFS wouldn't be doing salmon survey work. I said USFWS wouldn't be doing it. USFS has biologists for fish/wildlife on their lands, just like other agencies.
Bigtex stated that the usfs wouldn't be doing salmon survey work, NOAA would. One of the rescue crew in the chopper said there was a directional antenna. The lady is said to work for USFS from Utah, and the WDFW tried to cancel the help rescue.
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Post by: pianoman9701 on July 20, 2018, 06:52:56 AM
This thread has successfully passed the ridiculous mark.
Please elucidate.
Post by: bigtex on July 20, 2018, 07:04:05 AM
US Fish & Wildlife (USFWS) wouldn't be doing a salmon survey, especially in that area.I'm sorry your response confuses me.can you restate?Lets focus on the discrepancies that are plausible, known and provable.I didn't say USFS wouldn't be doing salmon survey work. I said USFWS wouldn't be doing it. USFS has biologists for fish/wildlife on their lands, just like other agencies.
Bigtex stated that the usfs wouldn't be doing salmon survey work, NOAA would. One of the rescue crew in the chopper said there was a directional antenna. The lady is said to work for USFS from Utah, and the WDFW tried to cancel the help rescue.
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NOAA would do a salmon survey since they are the federal managers of salmon.
US Forest Service (USFS) has fisheries biologists and could be doing salmon surveys (or surveys for anything) on the rivers/creeeks/lakes that are in National Forests.
The individual who was airlifted was a USFS employee.
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Post by: wolfbait on July 20, 2018, 07:31:30 AM
Wolfbait, is there an article or a news release you can source where WDFW ever said that wolves are timid and don’t pose a potential danger to humans? They’re cute and cuddly like little golden labradoodles? Please provide this source if it exists.
Wolves are shy by nature and avoid contact with humans
https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/wolves_in_washington.html
Wild wolves generally fear and avoid people, rarely posing a threat to human safety.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/humans_pets.html
It's not a wonder that so many people think wolves don't pose any threat, if WDFW would have been honest and reported on the many wolf/human attacks etc. they would have to change their story, and the public would be educated enough to know that wolves do attack/stalk people.
Due to the introduction of wolves in WA and WDFW protecting cougars, life is completely different in the woods than when I grew up, and some day, I hate to say, a wolf attack won't come out with the wolves being driven off.
WDFW should be honest and educate the public as to the dangers of wolves, not continue with the line that wolves are shy and avoid people.
This little discussion we are having isn't about lackies for WDFW or hippies from the westside, it is about WDFW refusing to "honestly" report ALL wolf/human wolf attacks and all the people that believe wolves are shy and avoid humans.
It's a common sense issue jack, it's not about you being the poor picked-on victim.
Post by: idahohuntr on July 20, 2018, 07:49:08 AM
Neither of the statements you provided is false. In fact, to anyone with real world experience in wolf country they are spot on. Wolves generally avoid people and rarely pose a threat to human safety. This goes for many other predators such as bears and cougars. However, any of those animals are more than capable of easily killing a human in the blink of an eye.Wolfbait, is there an article or a news release you can source where WDFW ever said that wolves are timid and don’t pose a potential danger to humans? They’re cute and cuddly like little golden labradoodles? Please provide this source if it exists.
Wolves are shy by nature and avoid contact with humans
https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/wolves_in_washington.html
Wild wolves generally fear and avoid people, rarely posing a threat to human safety.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/humans_pets.html
It's not a wonder that so many people think wolves don't pose any threat, if WDFW would have been honest and reported on the many wolf/human attacks etc. they would have to change their story, and the public would be educated enough to know that wolves do attack/stalk people.
Due to the introduction of wolves in WA and WDFW protecting cougars, life is completely different in the woods than when I grew up, and some day, I hate to say, a wolf attack won't come out with the wolves being driven off.
WDFW should be honest and educate the public as to the dangers of wolves, not continue with the line that wolves are shy and avoid people.
This little discussion we are having isn't about lackies for WDFW or hippies from the westside, it is about WDFW refusing to "honestly" report ALL wolf/human wolf attacks and all the people that believe wolves are shy and avoid humans.
It's a common sense issue jack, it's not about you being the poor picked-on victim.
With respect to wolves, in nearly 25 years since re-introduction into Idaho and a population that exploded...there have been no human fatalities. Not saying it can't happen, but lets be realistic here...the honesty needs to work both ways, including from people like you who simply drum up false fear to push an agenda.
Post by: hunter399 on July 20, 2018, 07:50:31 AM
+1 ridiculous mark maybe a under statement,This thread has successfully passed the ridiculous mark.
Please elucidate.
She must be a skinny cougar to be climbing trees. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on July 20, 2018, 07:57:51 AM
I don't disagree that the woods are different these days. There are definitely predator issues and more potential for predator/people issues... I don't agree that any of those articles say that wolves aren't potentially dangerous to people. I read that as saying generally they are shy and avoid people. I believe that generally that is accurate. Could just be the way I'm reading into it versus the way you're reading into it.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 20, 2018, 08:24:48 AM
Going back in history, the threats to human safety are pretty rare, wolfbait.
I don't disagree that the woods are different these days. There are definitely predator issues and more potential for predator/people issues... I don't agree that any of those articles say that wolves aren't potentially dangerous to people. I read that as saying generally they are shy and avoid people. I believe that generally that is accurate. Could just be the way I'm reading into it versus the way you're reading into it.
Wolf attacks in the US are rare because we killed them when we saw them. They learned to fear us and stayed out of our way and range. We've always been armed and we've always killed wolves. That's not true anymore. In states where they're protected, they have no reason to fear humans. If you read about wolves that aren't threatened by the local residents, attacks are not only not rare but common. Russia has a lengthy history of disarmed citizens who need the government to come in every couple of decades to clear them out from small villages that are threatened and their residents attacked. Iran, Scandinavia, and Kazakhstan have similar cycles and many wolf attacks on record. The state of WA is being irresponsible. They've eliminated any fear these wolves have of people by continuing to protect them, even while their population has grown far beyond the need. At the same time, they continue to push the narrative that wolves avoid people and aren't a threat. It's not true and incidents like this one will increase...and I guarantee that sooner or later, people will be attacked and killed. The information is out there if you're interested in having it.
Post by: nwwanderer on July 20, 2018, 08:29:01 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 20, 2018, 08:42:32 AM
Going back in history, the threats to human safety are pretty rare, wolfbait.
I don't disagree that the woods are different these days. There are definitely predator issues and more potential for predator/people issues... I don't agree that any of those articles say that wolves aren't potentially dangerous to people. I read that as saying generally they are shy and avoid people. I believe that generally that is accurate. Could just be the way I'm reading into it versus the way you're reading into it.
Wolf attacks in the US are rare because we killed them when we saw them. They learned to fear us and stayed out of our way and range. We've always been armed and we've always killed wolves. That's not true anymore. In states where they're protected, they have no reason to fear humans. If you read about wolves that aren't threatened by the local residents, attacks are not only not rare but common. Russia has a lengthy history of disarmed citizens who need the government to come in every couple of decades to clear them out from small villages that are threatened and their residents attacked. Iran, Scandinavia, and Kazakhstan have similar cycles and many wolf attacks on record. The state of WA is being irresponsible. They've eliminated any fear these wolves have of people by continuing to protect them, even while their population has grown far beyond the need. At the same time, they continue to push the narrative that wolves avoid people and aren't a threat. It's not true and incidents like this one will increase...and I guarantee that sooner or later, people will be attacked and killed. The information is out there if you're interested in having it.
You've mentioned this multiple times and I've responded by saying I've read it multiple times.
Post by: bigmacc on July 20, 2018, 09:00:39 AM
When I was 9 or 10 my dad would drop me in spots in the Methow and tell me to make it back to camp, sometimes it was 4 or 5 miles(I didn't know it but he was keeping an eye on me the whole time :chuckle:), he would give me a motivational speech and go over where certain landmarks were et. etc. One of the things he used to tell me was there was there was nothing out there that was gonna "get me" but to always be aware of what was around me and to always be prepared for anything that could pose a threat, there is no way I would turn my grandkids loose over there now days because there seems to be a lot of different things that can "get you". A lot has changed in the last 50+years. :twocents:
Post by: vandeman17 on July 20, 2018, 10:00:03 AM
When I was 9 or 10 my dad would drop me in spots in the Methow and tell me to make it back to camp, sometimes it was 4 or 5 miles(I didn't know it but he was keeping an eye on me the whole time :chuckle:), he would give me a motivational speech and go over where certain landmarks were et. etc. One of the things he used to tell me was there was there was nothing out there that was gonna "get me" but to always be aware of what was around me and to always be prepared for anything that could pose a threat, there is no way I would turn my grandkids loose over there now days because there seems to be a lot of different things that can "get you". A lot has changed in the last 50+years. :twocents:
same for me. I was dropped off plenty of times and told to head "that direction" and my old man would pick me up. In all my years of being in the woods alone, even at a young age, I have never really been scared. Creeped out plenty of times but never genuinely fearful.
Post by: hunter399 on July 20, 2018, 10:35:29 AM
Same here but I was always dropped at the bottom of mountain and told ,see you at the top.
When I was 9 or 10 my dad would drop me in spots in the Methow and tell me to make it back to camp, sometimes it was 4 or 5 miles(I didn't know it but he was keeping an eye on me the whole time :chuckle:), he would give me a motivational speech and go over where certain landmarks were et. etc. One of the things he used to tell me was there was there was nothing out there that was gonna "get me" but to always be aware of what was around me and to always be prepared for anything that could pose a threat, there is no way I would turn my grandkids loose over there now days because there seems to be a lot of different things that can "get you". A lot has changed in the last 50+years. :twocents:
same for me. I was dropped off plenty of times and told to head "that direction" and my old man would pick me up. In all my years of being in the woods alone, even at a young age, I have never really been scared. Creeped out plenty of times but never genuinely fearful.
Old man be waiting up there hoping I would push something in his direction. :dunno:
Post by: jackelope on July 20, 2018, 12:10:59 PM
So…I’m going to go out on a limb here and try to offer up a comparison. One that isn’t as sexy, one without the drama – but I promise I will try to make it as scary as possible. I’ll try not to draw it out and make it too long. Full disclosure, I am taking some creative liberties here.
Say you decide to go out and pick huckleberries. Your buddy can’t make it to go with you, but your wife really wants to make a pie so you decide to go for a jaunt in the woods by yourself. Maybe 2 or 3 miles in, checking your trail cam while you are at it. Oh, and when you hit the woods, you realize you left your trusty pocket bazooka (no innuendo intended) at home on the counter. Well, you’re out there anyway so you might as well pick the berries and get back home.
While you are in the thick brush, well back in the woods, you hear an unusual sound and tentatively creep forward another 50 yards to investigate. The sound gets louder, when all of a sudden, the brush opens up and you find yourself face-to-face with a mamma black bear. This is the first time you have seen a bear in the wild before. Behind her you catch a glimpse of a 1.5-year-old cub – no, wait – let’s make it two cubs to make it scarier. Before you can react, the mamma bear charges at you, then stops 10 yards away. It’s a bluff charge, but enough to get your heart to do somersaults. She backs up, then does it again, complete with huffing and jaw-popping. You think, “Crap! I’m gonna get et up! I better skee-dattle on outta here!” You hear rustling off to the side in the bushes in front of you, and in a panic, you shimmy up the nearest Doug fir. Maybe not the best idea, but you did it in an impulse and now the mamma bear is at the base of the tree with her two 150 lb. cubs. Hmmm, you’re sure in a pickle now…
After a few minutes, you decide that you might need some assistance, since the bear is giving you no indication that it plans on leaving. Luckily, you have a phone in your pocket (and Verizon for your cell carrier). You call 911 and request help. Next thing you know, a chopper comes in and whisks you off to safety. The crew in the chopper (or at least someone involved in the rescue operation) has orders to kill all three bears on-site, but the bears run off when the bird lands.
So, my question to everyone is this – did those bears (cubs included) pose an immediate public safety risk? Because of the bear’s actions, should a crew of local law enforcement be tasked with fully investigating this incident (trumping whatever management actions USFS/USFWS/WDFW may be taking), to include whacking the bears if they find them in the woods again (I realize there is a disparity here, as bears are not federally protected in this story)? Was the momma bear acting in a threatening, or in a defensive manner, and should she and her cubs be euthanized for what happened?
First of all, I am by no means criticizing the USFS worker or any of the rescue crew involved. Granted, I have a bias, as every single one of us does – but I’m trying to not portray this too slanted… I tried to concoct a similar scenario here as to what happened with the wolves. I know many on here will balk and cry foul, shouting, “Hey wait a minute, you are comparing apples to asparagus! Unlike those invasive Canadian wolves, bears aren’t bloodthirsty savages that gobble up helpless government employees and babies just for the thrill of it!” (while in the back of your head you do the math and recount the disproportionate number of bear attacks compared to wolf attacks). Well, I find the two scenarios pretty darn similar. But that’s just me. Seriously though – when you reflect on what went down, do you or do you not think euthanasia is warranted here?
I’m hoping that those who disagree with the euthanasia route won’t automatically be labelled as a WDF and Wolves sympathizer, bleeding-heart, granola munching, spotted
-owl kisser. And similarly, I hope those that truly think someone should go in and kill the bears aren’t labelled as…well…I don’t know – but you get the picture. Unfortunately, I’ve read enough posts here to know not to hold my breath. If you feel like weighing in on this, feel free. I honestly just want people to stop the hysteria and social media frenzy long enough to pause and replay the scenario with a similar predator that carries just a little (ok, a lot) less of a stigma, and be honest with themselves regardless of how much they despise (or love) wolves.
And please, let the ridiculous, extreme speculation and collusion theories continue to spill forth.
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 20, 2018, 12:18:57 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 20, 2018, 12:20:00 PM
This thread really isn't generating any positive discussion and everybody who's commenting on it has their mind made up. Every single publicized statement will be interpreted based on what is already believed by the individual(s) and we'll continue to ridicule one another over semantics.
Post by: Special T on July 20, 2018, 12:30:07 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
Post by: wolfbait on July 20, 2018, 06:01:34 PM
Going back in history, the threats to human safety are pretty rare, wolfbait.
I don't disagree that the woods are different these days. There are definitely predator issues and more potential for predator/people issues... I don't agree that any of those articles say that wolves aren't potentially dangerous to people. I read that as saying generally they are shy and avoid people. I believe that generally that is accurate. Could just be the way I'm reading into it versus the way you're reading into it.
Wolf attacks in the US are rare because we killed them when we saw them. They learned to fear us and stayed out of our way and range. We've always been armed and we've always killed wolves. That's not true anymore. In states where they're protected, they have no reason to fear humans. If you read about wolves that aren't threatened by the local residents, attacks are not only not rare but common. Russia has a lengthy history of disarmed citizens who need the government to come in every couple of decades to clear them out from small villages that are threatened and their residents attacked. Iran, Scandinavia, and Kazakhstan have similar cycles and many wolf attacks on record. The state of WA is being irresponsible. They've eliminated any fear these wolves have of people by continuing to protect them, even while their population has grown far beyond the need. At the same time, they continue to push the narrative that wolves avoid people and aren't a threat. It's not true and incidents like this one will increase...and I guarantee that sooner or later, people will be attacked and killed. The information is out there if you're interested in having it.
:yeah: Well said P-man-
I think you rely too much on what WDFW claim, jack. I know of at least eight people who have been stalked by wolves on the Valley floor and a few who have had wolves follow them for several miles in the high country. We have had wolves kill deer within a hundred yards of our house, had them looking in the living room window, the same wolves that WDFW claim are shy and avoid people.
Now we have mule deer fawning-out in Twisp, around rural homes and along the state and county paved roads, they aren't there because they like getting splattered on the roads, they are their to avoid wolves, etc.. Couple of years ago wolves killed a doe in the front yard of some people that live just around the mountain from us, then there are the wolves that attack dogs right on the front porch, once agin the same wolves that are shy and avoid people.
As P-man said it will only get worse, with less prey and as wolves become more habitual to people, wolf/human attacks will occur more frequently.
A few years ago we were up at the shooting range, there were three guys in those funny little snowshoes that are practically worthless, these guys were "snowshoeing" on a hard packed road in two inches of fresh snow, I ask them if they thought they could outrun the wolves with them rigs on their feet, one of them snarled that wolves don't bother people.
Don't feel like the lone ranger jack, you are not alone in your way of thinking or reading....
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 20, 2018, 06:05:50 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
I'll stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!
Post by: fishngamereaper on July 20, 2018, 06:10:13 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
I'll stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!
Can I spot and call your wind......
Post by: Cougartail on July 20, 2018, 06:16:35 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
I'll try to stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!
Fixed it for you.. Lots of bravado and little reality. I've actually tried in Alaska.. Trapping is the only way to get many.
Post by: fishngamereaper on July 20, 2018, 06:19:05 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
I'll try to stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!
Fixed it for you.. Lots of bravado and little reality. I've actually tried in Alaska.. Trapping is the only way to get many.
Or you just stand in one spot and they come hunting you...kind of like baiting I guess.
Post by: jackelope on July 20, 2018, 06:25:11 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
I'll try to stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!
Fixed it for you.. Lots of bravado and little reality. I've actually tried in Alaska.. Trapping is the only way to get many.
Or you just stand in one spot and they come hunting you...kind of like baiting I guess.
Judging by some of the comments in this thread, this would be a very effective way of hunting wolves.
Post by: Jpmiller on July 20, 2018, 06:49:06 PM
The deer acting all aggressive and beating up my dog really happened btw, and in the methow fwiw.
Also fwiw my old man lives in the methow and we have had cougar bear wolf and deer activity on his property and I let my 3 year old roam around out there. I've had bear and possibly a bobcat at my place in wilkeson and I let my 3 year old and 1 year old play out there outside of my immediate influence. When did the woods get so frightening that even the thought of danger made us all run and hide? There's as much chance of me or my family getting killed going to collect groceries than in the woods. Be aware but don't let fear of an improbable animal attack keep you from enjoying time outside.
Post by: Cougartail on July 20, 2018, 06:59:11 PM
I was threatened by a deer once and it attacked my dog. Wdfw told me deer we're shy and avoided humans but this one was a mean one and it kicked my dog real good and would have got me too if my normally timid dog hadn't come to my defense. How come wdfw didn't warn me of the threat of deer and effectively manage them so as to make them fearful of humans like they should be?
The deer acting all aggressive and beating up my dog really happened btw, and in the methow fwiw.
Also fwiw my old man lives in the methow and we have had cougar bear wolf and deer activity on his property and I let my 3 year old roam around out there. I've had bear and possibly a bobcat at my place in wilkeson and I let my 3 year old and 1 year old play out there outside of my immediate influence. When did the woods get so frightening that even the thought of danger made us all run and hide? There's as much chance of me or my family getting killed going to collect groceries than in the woods. Be aware but don't let fear of an improbable animal attack keep you from enjoying time outside.
Are you implying that some of us are "snowflakes" wanting "safe spaces"? :chuckle:
Post by: Jpmiller on July 20, 2018, 07:33:46 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 20, 2018, 08:39:42 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
I'll stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!
and just like that, I'm pro Native American :chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 20, 2018, 09:24:42 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
I'll try to stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!
Fixed it for you.. Lots of bravado and little reality. I've actually tried in Alaska.. Trapping is the only way to get many.
Or you just stand in one spot and they come hunting you...kind of like baiting I guess.
I'd bait as that seems like a method that would have a high success rate.
Post by: buglebrush on July 21, 2018, 12:10:40 AM
Post by: WaltAlpine on July 21, 2018, 02:06:31 PM
Am I to take it from posts about her not being armed and needing escorts and groups of people that it would be foolish to be alone in the woods or alone and unarmed? I oftentimes find myself in the out of doors away from a road or trail by myself and occasionally without an accesible weapon, effectively being disarmed. Am I too being foolish?And so will there be more hunters in the tiffany springs area, or less?
Are we really all that terrified of wild animals that we need to constantly be ready for a confrontation with them?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: bearpaw on July 21, 2018, 02:10:47 PM
I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress
I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..
I'll stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!
and just like that, I'm pro Native American :chuckle:
Due to the political climate in WA, I'm afraid our only hope to have wolves managed may be for the tribes to do it! :dunno:
Post by: Jpmiller on July 21, 2018, 02:13:02 PM
Am I to take it from posts about her not being armed and needing escorts and groups of people that it would be foolish to be alone in the woods or alone and unarmed? I oftentimes find myself in the out of doors away from a road or trail by myself and occasionally without an accesible weapon, effectively being disarmed. Am I too being foolish?And so will there be more hunters in the tiffany springs area, or less?
Are we really all that terrified of wild animals that we need to constantly be ready for a confrontation with them?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
If it's overrun with wolves there must be alot of game there or it wouldn't be overrun with wolves :dunno:
Post by: WaltAlpine on July 21, 2018, 03:26:00 PM
Not that I've seen in the last few years...Am I to take it from posts about her not being armed and needing escorts and groups of people that it would be foolish to be alone in the woods or alone and unarmed? I oftentimes find myself in the out of doors away from a road or trail by myself and occasionally without an accesible weapon, effectively being disarmed. Am I too being foolish?And so will there be more hunters in the tiffany springs area, or less?
Are we really all that terrified of wild animals that we need to constantly be ready for a confrontation with them?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
If it's overrun with wolves there must be alot of game there or it wouldn't be overrun with wolves :dunno:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: hunter399 on July 21, 2018, 05:27:33 PM
I was threatened by a deer once and it attacked my dog. Wdfw told me deer we're shy and avoided humans but this one was a mean one and it kicked my dog real good and would have got me too if my normally timid dog hadn't come to my defense. How come wdfw didn't warn me of the threat of deer and effectively manage them so as to make them fearful of humans like they should be?
The deer acting all aggressive and beating up my dog really happened btw, and in the methow fwiw.
Also fwiw my old man lives in the methow and we have had cougar bear wolf and deer activity on his property and I let my 3 year old roam around out there. I've had bear and possibly a bobcat at my place in wilkeson and I let my 3 year old and 1 year old play out there outside of my immediate influence. When did the woods get so frightening that even the thought of danger made us all run and hide? There's as much chance of me or my family getting killed going to collect groceries than in the woods. Be aware but don't let fear of an improbable animal attack keep you from enjoying time outside.
Are you implying that some of us are "snowflakes" wanting "safe spaces"? :chuckle:
The only time I've seen deer attack dogs is when they have a fawn in the grass,or maybe a deer that had its fawn killed recently.Then I could see a deer stomping a mud hole into your dog.
Post by: jackelope on July 21, 2018, 06:06:46 PM
I’m wondering if the helicopter was actually an Apache gunship.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 21, 2018, 06:20:21 PM
Someone posted on another social media site today that there were 30 wolves under the tree and a swat team was in the helicopter.
I’m wondering if the helicopter was actually an Apache gunship.
Our NWO overlords prefer the Mi-24 from their home country. More room for overlords, gammies, rangers, Hillary, wolves and grizzlies
Post by: jackelope on July 21, 2018, 06:23:16 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 21, 2018, 06:24:02 PM
Someone posted on another social media site today that there were 30 wolves under the tree and a swat team was in the helicopter.
I’m wondering if the helicopter was actually an Apache gunship.
The conspiracy runs deeper then that. This story is true, all of it, but the difference is that it wasn't wolves................
It was BIGFOOT!!!!! >:( >:( >:(
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 21, 2018, 09:07:16 PM
Post by: winshooter88 on July 22, 2018, 03:11:34 AM
The only thing that I found in this thread that I don't understand is the comparison of Idaho to Washington. Sure there have not been a bunch of wolf/human incidents in Idaho that I have heard of, but to put a little balance on the subject, Idaho has roughly 16 people per square mile, Washington has roughly 97 people per square mile. Which state has the better chance of wolf/human interaction? :twocents:
Post by: buglebrush on July 22, 2018, 02:23:48 PM
Folks, I can't believe that this thread has gone on so many pages. The truth is that the true facts of this incident will probably never be known, if WDFW had been able to call off the helicopter we most likely wouldn't know what we do, as the WDFW has been downplaying the wolf information for a long, long time. If you bring it up to WDFW upper-management they tend to get rather defensive and uncomfortable. At least they will admit that the yearly count numbers they publish are only a guess.
The only thing that I found in this thread that I don't understand is the comparison of Idaho to Washington. Sure there have not been a bunch of wolf/human incidents in Idaho that I have heard of, but to put a little balance on the subject, Idaho has roughly 16 people per square mile, Washington has roughly 97 people per square mile. Which state has the better chance of wolf/human interactifon? :twocents:
Leave the Seattle area out, and the people per square mile isn't that different.
Post by: bearpaw on July 22, 2018, 03:01:34 PM
Folks, I can't believe that this thread has gone on so many pages. The truth is that the true facts of this incident will probably never be known, if WDFW had been able to call off the helicopter we most likely wouldn't know what we do, as the WDFW has been downplaying the wolf information for a long, long time. If you bring it up to WDFW upper-management they tend to get rather defensive and uncomfortable. At least they will admit that the yearly count numbers they publish are only a guess.
The only thing that I found in this thread that I don't understand is the comparison of Idaho to Washington. Sure there have not been a bunch of wolf/human incidents in Idaho that I have heard of, but to put a little balance on the subject, Idaho has roughly 16 people per square mile, Washington has roughly 97 people per square mile. Which state has the better chance of wolf/human interaction? :twocents:
Actually in Idaho there are more wolf/human incidents than are published, I think a larger percentage of the people are taking care of situations themselves, I've heard of numerous situations where people just dealt with the wolves.
Post by: winshooter88 on July 22, 2018, 03:18:57 PM
Most of the states population my live west of the mountains, but a large part of the people on the west side recreate on the east side.
Post by: Humptulips on July 22, 2018, 04:23:13 PM
WDFW resisted sending copter, sheriff to save woman treed by wolves
DNR pushes back, makes swift rescue - By DON JENKINS - Capital Press
Washington wildlife managers initially opposed sending a helicopter or a search-and-rescue team to save a woman treed by wolves in the Okanogan- Wenatchee National Forest, according to recordings and summaries of emergency calls obtained Tuesday.
The Department of Natural Resources pushed back and prepared to dispatch an air crew that eventually executed a swift rescue. Notes from a call between DNR dispatcher Jill Jones and a wildlife officer summarized WDFW’s position, and her position, shortly before the helicopter launched.
“No helicopter. Federally listed species 3 WDFW personnel saying so,” according to DNR’s call log.
“We are more concerned for her life than the listed animal,” Jones told the officer. “He indicated that she is safe up in the tree. ... I told him that we do not know how safe she is. I don’t know how stout the tree is, and if the limbs will continue to hold her or how long she can hold on.”
Minutes later, WDFW and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials, at the request of DNR wildfire supervisor Chuck Turley, OK’d an air rescue. Within a half hour, the woman was safe in the DNR helicopter piloted by Devin Gooch. The wolves had scattered as Gooch flew overhead before landing in a meadow.
reaching the woman by foot would have taken two to three hours, officials estimated. The swift air rescue ended a hectic 45 minutes in which state, federal and local agencies discussed what to do.
WDFW wolf policy coordinator Donny Martorello said Wednesday that wildlife biologists familiar with wolf behavior thought the woman was not in immediate danger. “I think from their lens they were thinking there was a simpler solution,” he said.
“To tell the helicopter not to go was not the right call, and we have to own that,” Martorello said. “The right call was to send the helicopter. It goes without saying we value human life over everything else.”
Okanogan County, in north-central Washington, has had relatively few wolf incidents compared to Ferry and Stevens counties to the east. Sheriff Frank Rogers said the incident went “sideways,” leaving him angry that WDFW told the county’s search-and rescue team to “stand down.”
The next day, a federal biologist warned deputies hiking to view the scene of the incident to not harass wolves, he said.
“I don’t know who’s making the calls and telling us we can’t be involved. You can’t tell me not to be involved. It’s my county,” Rogers said. “Whether it’s wolves or a guy with a gun, we’re going to go.” Rogers said that he wanted deputies to do a follow-up investigation to assess the threat to public safety. “I just don’t want another incident,” he said. “All we want to know is what we’re dealing with.”
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service spokeswoman Ann Froschauer said the federal agency has no opposition to the sheriff’s office doing its own investigation. “It’s certainly the role of local law enforcement,” she said. Authorities have not released the woman’s name, citing her wish to not be identified. “We would love to talk to the woman,” Rogers said.
Martorello said Turley, who works in the same state building in Olympia, came to his office and said DNR wanted to send a helicopter. Martorello said he put Turley on the phone with Gregg Kurz, the lead carnivore biologist in the state for the federal Fish and Wildlife Service. Kurz approved the helicopter.
Froschauer said she happened to be waiting with Kurz for a meeting on grizzly bears to start when he got the call. “Gregg said absolutely go for it. There was not hesitation on our part,” she said.
Before getting clearance from the wildlife agencies, DNR wildfire operations manager Aaron Schmidt already had approved sending the helicopter, as had the Forest Service, according to DNR records.
At one point, according to DNR call logs, the agency was prepared to “launch the rotor and will deal with aftermath of WDFW later.”
Post by: gaddy on July 22, 2018, 04:57:23 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 22, 2018, 07:00:30 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 22, 2018, 07:50:49 PM
Where did the helo land exactly is my question ?
In a meadow nearby is what I read.
Post by: castie2504 on July 22, 2018, 07:56:04 PM
Post by: buglebrush on July 22, 2018, 08:19:56 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 22, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
Rescues outside the NP's are the normal responsibilty of the sheriff, so this aspect does logically give him an in to investigate, not what happened to need the rescue, but why was it called off or delayed.
Normal chain of events is that 911 would be called, the sherrif would get the FD or mountain rescue working, and either a contract ship or Snohomish county would spool up.
This is really weird.
Post by: bigmacc on July 22, 2018, 08:41:51 PM
Where did the helo land exactly is my question ?
In a meadow nearby is what I read.
Lots of meadows up in that turf, I personally have spent many an evening looking at stars while spending some of the most priceless nights ever. Not once was I scared, I spent 4 nights up there with a packer friend of mine back in the mid 70,s trying to get out 4 huge bucks before a storm moved in that dropped 2 feet of snow in less than 9 hours. Once again, no fear, nothin in there to possibly "get ya" except that freak weather, and if you are not ready, prepared or lack respect for Mother Nature, well then, you may wake up dead. Now days you need to be a little more worried of things besides the weather, back in the 50,s, 60,s, 70,s, 80,s and even the 90,s my dad would not worry about dropping me or my brothers off or his grandkids off with a sleeping bag, some matches, a compass a can opener , 2 cans of spam and a bag of apples, pointing in the general direction of camp and saying you have "2 days before I come and find you"...........jpmiller, there is no way in H@@L I would do that with my grandkids nowadays, we seen 4 cats up in that turf this last hunting season! Now wolves! you got to be kidding me!!!!
Post by: bornhunter on July 22, 2018, 09:48:20 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on July 22, 2018, 10:16:45 PM
Where did the helo land exactly is my question ?
In a meadow nearby is what I read.
Lots of meadows up in that turf, I personally have spent many an evening looking at stars while spending some of the most priceless nights ever. Not once was I scared, I spent 4 nights up there with a packer friend of mine back in the mid 70,s trying to get out 4 huge bucks before a storm moved in that dropped 2 feet of snow in less than 9 hours. Once again, no fear, nothin in there to possibly "get ya" except that freak weather, and if you are not ready, prepared or lack respect for Mother Nature, well then, you may wake up dead. Now days you need to be a little more worried of things besides the weather, back in the 50,s, 60,s, 70,s, 80,s and even the 90,s my dad would not worry about dropping me or my brothers off or his grandkids off with a sleeping bag, some matches, a compass a can opener , 2 cans of spam and a bag of apples, pointing in the general direction of camp and saying you have "2 days before I come and find you"...........jpmiller, there is no way in H@@L I would do that with my grandkids nowadays, we seen 4 cats up in that turf this last hunting season! Now wolves! you got to be kidding me!!!!
I worry more about two legged things getting my kids than four legged. They're still too young to do anything real by themselves but when the time comes I don't see letting predators stand in the way of giving them the same opportunities I had.
I saw my first up close black bear about a mile away from anyone by myself, I saw my first cougar when he sent me out by myself. I spent a great deal of time in the woods away from people and "safety" growing up and for every animal I ever saw I'm certain twenty saw me. The only time I was ever truly frightened was when I just about stepped on a sleeping cow elk and she stood straight upright all wild eyed at about twelve inches before taking off. Certainly cougars and bears saw me, maybe even a wolf or a grizzly in a few spots. Certainly I could have been in danger and I certainly wouldn't change any of it even knowing what I know now.
You can't eliminate risk and be completely safe. Letting my boys have the freedom to explore and be on their own and semi self reliant is something I want for them. They'll have the opportunity to fail and hopefully learn from it and succeed. Living in fear is not a lesson I want them to learn.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 23, 2018, 05:50:36 AM
Post by: Alchase on July 23, 2018, 06:30:45 AM
Seeing the two wolves up Lightning Creek while hunting a few years ago was an eye opener. They were up the ridge from me a couple hundred yards loping parrellel to my direction, they were watching me, but showed no threat.
I will say I had a chill go up my spine while hunting up Fall Creek a few years back. I was moving through the reprod by the creek. The creek was higher that normal, and covered my noise well. Then I noticed some huge bear tracks in the creek bank that were twice the size I have ever seen with claw prints three inches in front of the pad! There were enough prints to realize this was no black bear. Then reality hit, I was alone in thick cover, next to a creek that drowns out noise, and a very big grizzly had been there recently.
Very surreal moment, knowing I had no advantage.
Post by: Oh Mah on July 23, 2018, 11:59:04 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 23, 2018, 12:21:34 PM
Why the need for exact landing coordinates of the helo?
To make sure that there is actually biology work going on there, and not staging troops
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2012/08/09/dhs-and-us-military-make-final-preparations-before-announcing-martial-law/ (http://www.pakalertpress.com/2012/08/09/dhs-and-us-military-make-final-preparations-before-announcing-martial-law/)
Informants and military personnel are coming forth anonymously to confirm that martial law “is right around the corner.” However, right now we are under a silent martial law and citizens are reporting strange and unexplainable activity from the US armed forces and multiple federal agencies that point to a covert preparatory operation to completely lock down America in the very near future.
Sources from multiple locations across the nation have independently confirmed that the US military are repositioning soldiers in conjunction with allied foreign troops in the initial stages of martial law.
The US military are secretly moving massive amounts of “equipment” across the country consistently for more than a year. In Phoenix, Arizona, tractor-trailers transporting tanks on public highways have been spotted. One witness stated that he saw these flatbeds multiple times in the month of June. Eye witness reports are coming primarily from the northern and southern Border States.
Peter Santilli, an ex-marine informant who was a specialist in aviation deployed weapons, explains that a refrigerated truck, allocated by the administration department on base, was directed to the commissary, where the unsuspecting driver believed that he was transporting food. The weapon was placed at the head of the trailer, and covered up with either food stores (like cans of soup) or body bags. In the event that the truck is stopped en route, the weapon would be well hidden and go undetected by inspectors on the public highways.
Santilli, who was assigned to ride in the cab of the truck with the driver, says that his orders were to make sure the truck arrived at its destination. If there were problems concerning potential civil unrest, he was to radio into his superiors for aid by either air or ground support. Should the situation warrant serious attention; crowd control methods would be implemented.
One possible scenario was the use of cluster bomb units (CBUs) that will emit upon detonation, a “sleep and kill” chemical weapon that will not disturb infrastructure, but is lethal to all living things within the effected zone. Santilli describes these particular 3 unit CBUs as shaped like water-heaters with a coned top and plunger-like device. Once deployed in the air, a parachute assists these CBUs to the targeted area. And when detonated, a deadly chemical gas will kill every human and animal in the specified cordoned area.
The acquisition of armory by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and contracts for bullet-proof glass for check-point booths to be positioned strategically throughout the nation on public highways have heightened awareness that the US government is preparing for a well-planned domestic military action. DHS armored vehicles have been sighted on highways in Kentucky.
When citizens attempt to capture the activity on film, some have their cameras confiscated; sometimes after a physical altercation.
On Google Maps, where known military bases were once visible, some strategic areas are now blurred out.
John (a pseudonym) was contracted by DHS to “fill in caves, mines and block trails”. Now these measures are being stepped up, as independent contractors are being brought to mountainous regions and told to block all entrances into the mountains, by way of caves and other areas where people could possibly “hide out in the hills” during a riot situation under declaration of martial law.
Forested areas in states like Montana, Missouri and Arkansas are being closed to the public while military activity is being witnessed by locals. Those commercially contracted civilians working in these areas are allocated parallel shifts and compartmentalized projects to provide for an intelligence controlled operation.
One informant relayed an incident where he was detained on a forest road by unidentified “paramilitary” officials that seized his rifle from the rack on the back of his vehicle.
Another source said that while traveling in a national forest park, he and his party were met by what appeared to be a military police officer who demanded that they turn back.
Residents in Pine Mountain, Georgia and Spruce Mountain, Nevada have had confrontations with US armed forces. When travelling in public national forested areas, military police with “automatic weapons” say that locals cannot gather wood in surrounding forested spaces (as they have traditionally done for decades). One man in particular had his rifle forcibly confiscated by unidentified armed men.
On dirt roads leading to the Lassen National Forest reserve, paving is being laid over the gravel roads. The locals know that secret underground drilling or tunneling is being conducted. Whenever they enter the park, they are quickly escorted out by heavily armed and quite menacing persons. Even once abandoned logging roads are beginning to see activity again.
Information coming out of reserve units in Arizona is that they are being put on official alert. Military personnel are being told by superiors not to schedule vacations and prepare to be on-call and on-duty indefinitely. According to one informant, these new assignments are not providing for deployment overseas, but rather for domestic service with the intimation that these deployments may have relation to civil unrest expectations.
In Lake Havasu, Arizona, and Colorado Springs as well as Fort Collins, Colorado, locals are coming forth to report that local fires may have been lit by foreign troops; specifically Russian forces that have been spotted in the area. These Russian troops are believed to be stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado.
Military drills, a.k.a. urban warfare, have been played out in many states by the Pentagon and other branches of the US armed forces.
In Plainville and Worchester, Massachusetts, surprised citizens witnessed last “Wednesday evening. . . military helicopters descended on the vacant Wood School [in] the late hours of the night in a scene that might have appeared to simulate the United States’ special forces attack on Osama bin Laden’s compound last year.” Many locals had their homes swooped down upon by black helicopters in an obvious display of military dominance over the general public.
Residents saw helicopters landing near Worcester Memorial Auditorium in Lincoln Square. Local newspapers were flooded with “telephone calls and e-mails . . . curious about what was happening.”
The local police claim they were unaware of the drills.
A US Army spokeswoman made a half-hearted apology for “any inconvenience or unforeseen disturbance.”
In Hollywood, Florida, DHS and the Hollywood Police Department have taken part in Master Rappelling training exercises (MPTE) with Blackhawk helicopters scheduled over various government-owned buildings. Details concerning the drills are being kept from the public for “security reasons”.
MPTE are special operations to teach law enforcement and military techniques in tactical rope and rappelling skills that can be used in helicopter deployment and advanced tactical training.
Just this month, foreign troops were caught at a Wal-Mart . They were travelling in what were described as “large government vans”.
Law-enforcement battalions have been created out of Camp Pendleton, California, consisting of specialized military police (SMPs) that would be deployed to assist in any event of civil disturbance, handling of detainees, use biometrics to identify suspects and conduct forensic work. Their assistance is not limited to conducting DUIs and writing speeding tickets in an effort to re-brand the Marine Corps as being more involved with average work now allocated to local law enforcement.
Moving around in white, unmarked vans, strange troops have been seen purchasing food and water at another Wal-Mart in Franklin, Indiana. Parading in military personnel fatigues where drone activity has been reported in Oklahoma City and black helicopters were spotted hovering over a construction site.
According to documents from the RAND Corporation, a planned event concerning a Police Stabilization Force within the US will be “a mix of military and police forces to deal with a range of threats.” The study explains:
• What the response should be
• The creation of a high-end police force
• Costs for this military/police collaborative force
Estimates are $637.3 million annually and including many federal agencies including: the US Marshals Service, the US Secret Service, the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs (INL) in the Department of State, and the US Army’s Military Police.
There is a media blackout concerning the “state of emergency” (code for martial law) that Anaheim, California residents have been under since the murder of a man by local police.
While protests have been conducted, residents say that “outsiders” are infiltrating peaceful demonstrations to stir up violence and ensure local and military police action against them.
While city officials are gearing up for “another large incident” and “another riot” protesters are coming forth to voice their distain at the “infiltrators” that attended a protest that ended with the fatal shooting of two Latino men.
During protest marches in Anaheim, the white, unmarked vans have resurfaced. This time unidentified “police” detained protesters and placed them into these vans.
Disclose.tv – Is Anaheim Under Martial Law ?
The increased activity across the nation in conjunction with the mounting citizen reports of seeing military on their streets, conducting urban warfare drills, and spotting foreign troops have prompted public interest in the US government’s plans to enact a full-scale martial law in America – expected by the end of this year.
The more attention that is brought to these sightings and the more people come forward with information, the safer the American public will be. The US military have orders to shoot and kill all dissenters. They are being trained to confiscate guns and detain people in “internment” or FEMA camps. For the sake of continuity of government, they are being told to turn on their own fellow Americans.
Post by: castie2504 on July 23, 2018, 12:49:03 PM
Post by: RallyDawg on July 23, 2018, 01:55:16 PM
On a side note, I was a fisheries intern with the USFS for several summers and it's not uncommon to complete stream surveys in remote areas that may not be providing salmon habitat. I expect that "salmon surveys" is being use loosely to describe general stream survey work.
Post by: KFhunter on July 23, 2018, 02:11:33 PM
I know WDFW and/or USFWS will not release the incident location but has anyone stumbled upon the general location? I am familiar with the general Tiffany Springs Campground and I am assuming that the rendezvous site is northwest of the campground given the lack of roads and description of the helicopter's landing location . I was planning on a backpack trip with the boys this summer in that general area but may reconsider.
On a side note, I was a fisheries intern with the USFS for several summers and it's not uncommon to complete stream surveys in remote areas that may not be providing salmon habitat. I expect that "salmon surveys" is being use loosely to describe general stream survey work.
While surveying these remote streams without salmon habitat..any reason to carry an antenna for tracking?
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 23, 2018, 02:13:08 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 23, 2018, 02:15:10 PM
Bull trout? Bull trout are always up there high on the monitoring/surveying scale.
Example:
https://www.fws.gov/leavenworthfisheriescomplex/MidColumbiaFWCO/pdf/Spawning%20Migrations%20Adult%20Fluvial%20Bull%20Trout%20Entiat%20River%202007-2013.pdf
Post by: RallyDawg on July 23, 2018, 02:44:10 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 23, 2018, 03:00:59 PM
Why the need for exact landing coordinates of the helo?
Why not ? It's our taxpayers money paying for the expenses of the entire ordeal.
Post by: Curly on July 23, 2018, 03:02:56 PM
Salmonids maybe? ;)
Bull trout? Bull trout are always up there high on the monitoring/surveying scale.
Example:
https://www.fws.gov/leavenworthfisheriescomplex/MidColumbiaFWCO/pdf/Spawning%20Migrations%20Adult%20Fluvial%20Bull%20Trout%20Entiat%20River%202007-2013.pdf
Salmonid is probably what was said. That does make more sense.
Post by: PA BEN on July 23, 2018, 06:21:43 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on July 23, 2018, 06:26:55 PM
I guess. :yeah: There are good reasons to let it be known exactly where it was and very good reasons for them not to let that info out. :tup:Why the need for exact landing coordinates of the helo?
Why not ? It's our taxpayers money paying for the expenses of the entire ordeal.
Post by: WaltAlpine on July 26, 2018, 09:48:28 AM
Rumor has it that they landed in parachute meadows just west of the campground???I guess. :yeah: There are good reasons to let it be known exactly where it was and very good reasons for them not to let that info out. :tup:Why the need for exact landing coordinates of the helo?
Why not ? It's our taxpayers money paying for the expenses of the entire ordeal.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: walt on July 26, 2018, 11:41:32 AM
I know WDFW and/or USFWS will not release the incident location but has anyone stumbled upon the general location? I am familiar with the general Tiffany Springs Campground and I am assuming that the rendezvous site is northwest of the campground given the lack of roads and description of the helicopter's landing location . I was planning on a backpack trip with the boys this summer in that general area but may reconsider.
On a side note, I was a fisheries intern with the USFS for several summers and it's not uncommon to complete stream surveys in remote areas that may not be providing salmon habitat. I expect that "salmon surveys" is being use loosely to describe general stream survey work.
While surveying these remote streams without salmon habitat..any reason to carry an antenna for tracking?
Absolutely. It's actually very common. Fish bios will shock a portion of a river or stream, gather up and insert a transmitter in the fish and later track their movements using a radio antenna/telemetry device. I helped on a project on the Blackfoot River where cutthroat and bull trout were tracked up in to their spawning streams. It was crazy the distances some of them traveled and the tiny trickles of water they would head up in to.
Post by: bracer40 on July 26, 2018, 11:53:17 AM
Absolutely. It's actually very common. Fish bios will shock a portion of a river or stream, gather up and insert a transmitter in the fish and later track their movements using a radio antenna/telemetry device. I helped on a project on the Blackfoot River where cutthroat and bull trout were tracked up in to their spawning streams. It was crazy the distances some of them traveled and the tiny trickles of water they would head up in to.
[/quote]
That must have been a really cool job!
Post by: Allen23 on July 31, 2018, 02:20:56 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on July 31, 2018, 02:23:02 PM
Post by: Allen23 on July 31, 2018, 02:27:15 PM
Post by: buglebrush on July 31, 2018, 02:55:13 PM
How is having wolves in the woods with a possibility of endangering a human any different than any of the other animals we have always had? Bear, coyote, cougar, deer etc?The wolves we currently have are an illegally introduced invasive species. Totally different deal. They were brought in as a tool to further the environmentalists agenda and it's bloody working. :bash:
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 31, 2018, 02:58:32 PM
How is having wolves in the woods with a possibility of endangering a human any different than any of the other animals we have always had? Bear, coyote, cougar, deer etc?
No difference at all except that wolves are nearly 100% carnivorous and hunt in packs and are 4-5 times bigger than coyotes. Oh wait, those are significant :dunno:
Although in Wilkeson it probably won’t make much of a difference ;)
Post by: gaddy on July 31, 2018, 04:02:28 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on July 31, 2018, 04:26:05 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:How is having wolves in the woods with a possibility of endangering a human any different than any of the other animals we have always had? Bear, coyote, cougar, deer etc?The wolves we currently have are an illegally introduced invasive species. Totally different deal. They were brought in as a tool to further the environmentalists agenda and it's bloody working. :bash:
Post by: Jpmiller on July 31, 2018, 05:02:04 PM
Post by: Salmonstalker on July 31, 2018, 06:25:07 PM
I was speaking to the "fear" factor of wild human interaction. Every animal I listed and many others can transmit disease to humans, and every animal I listed poses a threat to human safety when we venture into the woods. I don't get why we are all not ok with wolves being a potential danger more than other animals other than just not liking that they are here at all.
I believe the above comments stated why they are more of a threat than our native and established predators. Ask Idaho how the introduction of the (CANADIAN) Grey Wolf has worked for them.... We're soon to learn the lessons they've learned.
Post by: bigmacc on July 31, 2018, 07:11:58 PM
I was speaking to the "fear" factor of wild human interaction. Every animal I listed and many others can transmit disease to humans, and every animal I listed poses a threat to human safety when we venture into the woods. I don't get why we are all not ok with wolves being a potential danger more than other animals other than just not liking that they are here at all.
I think it has been stated many times on this site, wolves are killing machines, they thrill kill, as far as I know they are the only animals on the planet that do it. Yes there are bears, cougar and yotes out there when we venture into the woods but they are opportunistic killers when it comes to humans I believe, if we stumble onto them they may attack you to protect their young, a stashed food source etc., Yes I,m sure there are instances of cats hunting down a human but at least you would have a chance to fight your way out of it with a cat. I don't think you would have much of a chance with multiple wolves tracking you down. When my dad was working up in Alaska in his younger years the Eskimos that were friends with my great grandparents would tell stories of wolf attacks, it was the animal they feared most, even more than a Brown bear. They said the thing about wolves was that if you seen one there was 5 more watching you, if you seen one following you there was probably one on each side of you and 3 waiting ahead of you ready to ambush. If I myself had to make a choice, I would enter the woods all day long and take my chances with cougars, bears and coyotes, a growing population of wolves is a whole different deal, you need to go in much more aware and prepared with a whole different mindset.... :twocents:
Post by: wolfbait on July 31, 2018, 07:48:50 PM
I was speaking to the "fear" factor of wild human interaction. Every animal I listed and many others can transmit disease to humans, and every animal I listed poses a threat to human safety when we venture into the woods. I don't get why we are all not ok with wolves being a potential danger more than other animals other than just not liking that they are here at all.
I think it has been stated many times on this site, wolves are killing machines, they thrill kill, as far as I know they are the only animals on the planet that do it. Yes there are bears, cougar and yotes out there when we venture into the woods but they are opportunistic killers when it comes to humans I believe, if we stumble onto them they may attack you to protect their young, a stashed food source etc., Yes I,m sure there are instances of cats hunting down a human but at least you would have a chance to fight your way out of it with a cat. I don't think you would have much of a chance with multiple wolves tracking you down. When my dad was working up in Alaska in his younger years the Eskimos that were friends with my great grandparents would tell stories of wolf attacks, it was the animal they feared most, even more than a Brown bear. They said the thing about wolves was that if you seen one there was 5 more watching you, if you seen one following you there was probably one on each side of you and 3 waiting ahead of you ready to ambush. If I myself had to make a choice, I would enter the woods all day long and take my chances with cougars, bears and coyotes, a growing population of wolves is a whole different deal, you need to go in much more aware and prepared with a whole different mindset.... :twocents:
And then there's the fact that the wolves haven't been hunted in WA, they don't have the respect for humans that say bears, coyotes or cats do, I'm sure the girl that went tree climbing has a different outlook on pepper spray.
An attack from one wolf you might make it through unarmed, depending on what kind of shape you are in, size etc., two or more wolves highly doubtful.
Read the book, Wolves in Russia: Anxiety Through the Ages, By Will Graves
"This book is a unique review of wolves as experienced in a culture much different than ours in North America. This book summarizes the massive research on wolves, particular those in Russia. The killing of humans by wolves is generally suppressed as reading material. This book documents the fear of Russian people because of the large number of people being killed by wolves. The diseases carried by wolves in another concern. These are explained in this book in detail. The need for control of wolves runs throughout this book. Wolves are not the positive influence in balancing nature as may be thought. Without control there is wide damage to humans, domesticated animals, and wild animals."
https://www.amazon.com/Wolves-Russia-Anxiety-Through-Ages/dp/1550593323
Post by: bigtex on July 31, 2018, 08:16:08 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 31, 2018, 08:47:53 PM
I've made up my opinion, and that article helped cement it. Full of contradictions and thought up excuses after the fact.
I have trouble swallowing this line:
"Trautman’s impetus appears to have also been partially based on his knowledge of the lay of the land and its lack of suitability for landing a helicopter, records show."
So what qualifications does Trautman have with landing helicopters? I have training on this myself. How accurately did he know where she was? GPS coords? Obviously he was wrong, the helicopter landed nearby without issue and scared off the wolves.
and this one:
..it was couched as due to the woman’s relative safety in the tree out of immediate danger, and the federally listed status of wolves in that part of Washington.
What does federally protected status have anything to do with a rescue operation?
another possible contradiction
WDFW states she was near a den, but also states she was at a rendezvous site, so which is it? or is it both a den and a rendezvous site?
IMO..WDFW heard about the woman in a tree they went full wolf PR mode and it went something like this: (is she safe? Ok she's safe up in a tree? the wolves can't get to her then good, let's call off the helicopter or the news will be all over this..we can hike in and keep it quiet)
They did not want a helicopter because it would make the news, and give ammo to the anti-wolf people and worse move people off the fence who weren't for or against the wolves yet. Part of the wolf plan is public acceptance, a public employee (and a woman) up a tree does not help the public acceptance part of the wolf plan.
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2018, 09:00:09 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 31, 2018, 09:07:29 PM
Okay maybe 15 :chuckle:
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2018, 09:09:20 PM
Lies @Bob33!22. Let's split the difference. :)
Okay maybe 15 :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on July 31, 2018, 09:49:55 PM
In hindsight they erred by not calling for a helicopter sooner. They've admitted as much. If they had called for a helicopter and it turned out later to be not needed, there would be 30 pages complaining about their poor judgment and the excessive waste of funds they incurred.
I don't buy that either.
No one would fault them for "agreeing" to send a helicopter that had already been requested by the Sheriff's office and DNR. WDFW went out of their way to stand it down (or attempt to) but they didn't initiate the call out in the first place, they tried to quash it. The helicopter was a DNR asset (contracted) fire crew.
It really didn't have much to do with WDFW other than it involved dangerous wildlife. The Sheriff's office doesn't need any other agencies approval to protect life and property, or rescue someone, even if it's from a protected species.
My take away is that WDFW will NOT have any of our backs should anyone need to protect themselves from wolves, and that's a bad position to be in.
Why in the world would someone want to subject themselves to this obviously biased scrutiny when WDFW tried to call off a helicopter from rescuing a tree'd woman?
I know what my defense in court would be!
Post by: bracer40 on July 31, 2018, 10:20:49 PM
Never worried much about walking around in the dark around cougar and bear kills in WA w nothing more than a flashlight and my wits. But going to grizz country has given me serious reason to consider the options.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on August 01, 2018, 05:38:42 AM
Post by: bracer40 on August 01, 2018, 06:55:53 AM
What will your choice be?
It will be loud for sure. Haven’t narrowed down the specifics yet.
Post by: bigmacc on August 01, 2018, 07:49:57 AM
Post by: Southpole on August 01, 2018, 08:36:37 AM
How is having wolves in the woods with a possibility of endangering a human any different than any of the other animals we have always had? Bear, coyote, cougar, deer etc?You’ll probably get hung if you defend yourself against wolves in this state, that’s the difference that sticks out to me.
Post by: Allen23 on August 01, 2018, 12:31:23 PM
[/quote]
And then there's the fact that the wolves haven't been hunted in WA, they don't have the respect for humans that say bears, coyotes or cats do, I'm sure the girl that went tree climbing has a different outlook on pepper spray.
:yeah:
We have taught the wolf that there is no reason no reason to fear man in this area. So why would they act any different. They have a curious nature with instinctual intentions, survive, which means consume food when opportunity presents its self, they also take the path of least resistance. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the average unarmed human walking Fido down the nature trail is going to put up less than a fight than your average cow elk..... as soon as they figure that out peoples opinions will change. I just don't understand why we have to wait for this to happen.
F and G is wanting to shake up the natural order of things by introducing NOT Reintroducing ( because these guys were never here) a predator that they realistically have no idea how to manage. You cant start putting piranhas in trout ponds all over the northwest and expect them to do only management work by taking out the weak.
Post by: bigmacc on August 01, 2018, 12:49:42 PM
And then there's the fact that the wolves haven't been hunted in WA, they don't have the respect for humans that say bears, coyotes or cats do, I'm sure the girl that went tree climbing has a different outlook on pepper spray.
:yeah:
We have taught the wolf that there is no reason no reason to fear man in this area. So why would they act any different. They have a curious nature with instinctual intentions, survive, which means consume food when opportunity presents its self, they also take the path of least resistance. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the average unarmed human walking Fido down the nature trail is going to put up less than a fight than your average cow elk..... as soon as they figure that out peoples opinions will change. I just don't understand why we have to wait for this to happen.
F and G is wanting to shake up the natural order of things by introducing NOT Reintroducing ( because these guys were never here) a predator that they realistically have no idea how to manage. You cant start putting piranhas in trout ponds all over the northwest and expect them to do only management work by taking out the weak.
[/quote]
:yeah:...there ya go.
Post by: Cougartail on August 01, 2018, 01:25:48 PM
I won't lose any sleep tonight worrying about a wolf attack. :chuckle:
Post by: Jpmiller on August 01, 2018, 01:36:40 PM
Odds of getting killed by a wolf, .135 in a million. Odds of dying of cancer 1640 in a million.
I won't lose any sleep tonight worrying about a wolf attack. :chuckle:
Well now I won't sleep from worrying about cancer
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 01, 2018, 02:07:08 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 01, 2018, 04:22:59 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on August 01, 2018, 04:34:57 PM
Would there of been a helo called out for a cougar snooping around said tree climber ? I doubt it.
They call that a retrieval not a rescue and the sense of urgency isn't the same.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 01, 2018, 04:43:05 PM
Would there of been a helo called out for a cougar snooping around said tree climber ? I doubt it.
They call that a retrieval not a rescue and the sense of urgency isn't the same.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: dontgetcrabs on August 01, 2018, 06:10:45 PM
She probably wouldn't climb a tree to escape a Cougar :chuckle:
:tup: :chuckle:
Post by: wolfbait on August 01, 2018, 09:46:30 PM
And then there's the fact that the wolves haven't been hunted in WA, they don't have the respect for humans that say bears, coyotes or cats do, I'm sure the girl that went tree climbing has a different outlook on pepper spray.
:yeah:
We have taught the wolf that there is no reason no reason to fear man in this area. So why would they act any different. They have a curious nature with instinctual intentions, survive, which means consume food when opportunity presents its self, they also take the path of least resistance. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the average unarmed human walking Fido down the nature trail is going to put up less than a fight than your average cow elk..... as soon as they figure that out peoples opinions will change. I just don't understand why we have to wait for this to happen.
F and G is wanting to shake up the natural order of things by introducing NOT Reintroducing ( because these guys were never here) a predator that they realistically have no idea how to manage. You cant start putting piranhas in trout ponds all over the northwest and expect them to do only management work by taking out the weak.
:yeah:...there ya go.
[/quote]
I don't think WDFW ever had any plans to "manage" wolves, their actions so far reflect this.
Keeping the public dumb by stating that wolves are timid and very seldom harm people or there have only been two deaths from wolves only proves that WDFW have an agenda and will do what it takes to keep people in the dark as long as they can.
Like you and many others have stated it's only a matter of time before wolves step up the game of doing more then prey testing and someone or several someones don't make it though an attack. The Methow Valley is a good example of WDFW, the USFS etc. stupidity in not having warnings signs at trailheads or posted for the general public of what real wolves do, not WDFW's fake timid wolves.
This last incident did shake some people off the fence, and I highly doubt any BS story WDFW etc. put out will change their thinking, seems to be more questions and interest about wolf attacks then before. Hopefully people smarten up and realize what many have and that's that WDFW etc. could careless about the impact wolves are and will have on public and private lands, and the fact that WDFW don't give two cents about those who are attacked or killed by their special wolves.
Post by: Odell on August 02, 2018, 06:20:07 AM
Folks, I can't believe that this thread has gone on so many pages. The truth is that the true facts of this incident will probably never be known, if WDFW had been able to call off the helicopter we most likely wouldn't know what we do, as the WDFW has been downplaying the wolf information for a long, long time. If you bring it up to WDFW upper-management they tend to get rather defensive and uncomfortable. At least they will admit that the yearly count numbers they publish are only a guess.
The only thing that I found in this thread that I don't understand is the comparison of Idaho to Washington. Sure there have not been a bunch of wolf/human incidents in Idaho that I have heard of, but to put a little balance on the subject, Idaho has roughly 16 people per square mile, Washington has roughly 97 people per square mile. Which state has the better chance of wolf/human interactifon? :twocents:
Leave the Seattle area out, and the people per square mile isn't that different.
yeah but the people in seattle don't always stay there, they hike, camp, even hunt
Post by: bornhunter on August 02, 2018, 07:38:33 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 02, 2018, 07:39:25 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 02, 2018, 07:43:41 AM
http://www.capitalpress.com/Washington/20180731/wolves-wouldnt-let-woman-leave-washington-forest
Post by: buglebrush on August 02, 2018, 07:45:02 AM
Folks, I can't believe that this thread has gone on so many pages. The truth is that the true facts of this incident will probably never be known, if WDFW had been able to call off the helicopter we most likely wouldn't know what we do, as the WDFW has been downplaying the wolf information for a long, long time. If you bring it up to WDFW upper-management they tend to get rather defensive and uncomfortable. At least they will admit that the yearly count numbers they publish are only a guess.
The only thing that I found in this thread that I don't understand is the comparison of Idaho to Washington. Sure there have not been a bunch of wolf/human incidents in Idaho that I have heard of, but to put a little balance on the subject, Idaho has roughly 16 people per square mile, Washington has roughly 97 people per square mile. Which state has the better chance of wolf/human interactifon? :twocents:
Leave the Seattle area out, and the people per square mile isn't that different.
yeah but the people in seattle don't always stay there, they hike, camp, even hunt
Yes but tens of thousands of non residents hunt, hike, camp in Idaho. Not even close to as many in WA.
Post by: wolfbait on August 02, 2018, 09:34:08 AM
Folks, I can't believe that this thread has gone on so many pages. The truth is that the true facts of this incident will probably never be known, if WDFW had been able to call off the helicopter we most likely wouldn't know what we do, as the WDFW has been downplaying the wolf information for a long, long time. If you bring it up to WDFW upper-management they tend to get rather defensive and uncomfortable. At least they will admit that the yearly count numbers they publish are only a guess.
The only thing that I found in this thread that I don't understand is the comparison of Idaho to Washington. Sure there have not been a bunch of wolf/human incidents in Idaho that I have heard of, but to put a little balance on the subject, Idaho has roughly 16 people per square mile, Washington has roughly 97 people per square mile. Which state has the better chance of wolf/human interactifon? :twocents:
Leave the Seattle area out, and the people per square mile isn't that different.
yeah but the people in seattle don't always stay there, they hike, camp, even hunt
Yes but tens of thousands of non residents hunt, hike, camp in Idaho. Not even close to as many in WA.
From my understanding talking to folks in Idaho, the USFWS decline to even investigate wolf attacks on people
Post by: Jpmiller on August 02, 2018, 12:21:25 PM
Folks, I can't believe that this thread has gone on so many pages. The truth is that the true facts of this incident will probably never be known, if WDFW had been able to call off the helicopter we most likely wouldn't know what we do, as the WDFW has been downplaying the wolf information for a long, long time. If you bring it up to WDFW upper-management they tend to get rather defensive and uncomfortable. At least they will admit that the yearly count numbers they publish are only a guess.
The only thing that I found in this thread that I don't understand is the comparison of Idaho to Washington. Sure there have not been a bunch of wolf/human incidents in Idaho that I have heard of, but to put a little balance on the subject, Idaho has roughly 16 people per square mile, Washington has roughly 97 people per square mile. Which state has the better chance of wolf/human interactifon? :twocents:
Leave the Seattle area out, and the people per square mile isn't that different.
yeah but the people in seattle don't always stay there, they hike, camp, even hunt
Yes but tens of thousands of non residents hunt, hike, camp in Idaho. Not even close to as many in WA.
From my understanding talking to folks in Idaho, the USFWS decline to even investigate wolf attacks on people
I'm pretty sure if that were true heads would roll. I find it hard to believe any government agency would decline to even investigate a wild animal attack on a human if for no other reason than to cover their own butts.
Post by: idahohuntr on August 02, 2018, 12:32:35 PM
Trying talking to people that are grounded in reality and facts...as opposed to those wearing tinfoil hats...and you might find that your understanding will change.Folks, I can't believe that this thread has gone on so many pages. The truth is that the true facts of this incident will probably never be known, if WDFW had been able to call off the helicopter we most likely wouldn't know what we do, as the WDFW has been downplaying the wolf information for a long, long time. If you bring it up to WDFW upper-management they tend to get rather defensive and uncomfortable. At least they will admit that the yearly count numbers they publish are only a guess.
The only thing that I found in this thread that I don't understand is the comparison of Idaho to Washington. Sure there have not been a bunch of wolf/human incidents in Idaho that I have heard of, but to put a little balance on the subject, Idaho has roughly 16 people per square mile, Washington has roughly 97 people per square mile. Which state has the better chance of wolf/human interactifon? :twocents:
Leave the Seattle area out, and the people per square mile isn't that different.
yeah but the people in seattle don't always stay there, they hike, camp, even hunt
Yes but tens of thousands of non residents hunt, hike, camp in Idaho. Not even close to as many in WA.
From my understanding talking to folks in Idaho, the USFWS decline to even investigate wolf attacks on people
Post by: KFhunter on August 02, 2018, 02:50:37 PM
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Post by: jackelope on August 02, 2018, 03:16:17 PM
Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on August 02, 2018, 04:20:08 PM
Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
Since in Idaho, wolves are no longer listed as an endangered species, wouldn't it now, in most cases, be the Idaho Fish & Game Department's responsibility to do any investigation?
Post by: jackelope on August 02, 2018, 04:27:56 PM
:dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on August 02, 2018, 04:30:41 PM
Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
As we've seen in this thread the water can be a little muddy with who's investigating what and whom.
Post by: idahohuntr on August 02, 2018, 04:41:54 PM
By all means...lets have wolfbait clear this up.Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
Based on his numerous previous statements, it's not a leap to think he is saying that wolf attacks are swept under the rug and nobody looks into them if they happen in Idaho. Everybody knows this is a ridiculous claim, but coming from someone who perpetuates widely discredited conspiracies (e.g. Chemtrails) I truly don't know if wolfbait is simply providing a nuanced fact that is trivial to the discussion or if he is purporting some broad conspiracy by the government to hide wolf attacks. My money is on the latter.
Post by: KFhunter on August 02, 2018, 04:56:21 PM
Wolfbait must be living rent free in your head, obviously you read a lot more of his threads than I do :chuckle:
Post by: buglebrush on August 02, 2018, 05:23:00 PM
Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
I believe in this case WDFW's desire to cover up/reduce the incident when someone's life was possibly at stake and appropriate mistrust if their actions in general regarding wolves is the cause of police investigation. Trying to compare a black bear and Wolf is apples & oranges.
Post by: buglebrush on August 02, 2018, 05:28:01 PM
By all means...lets have wolfbait clear this up.Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
Based on his numerous previous statements, it's not a leap to think he is saying that wolf attacks are swept under the rug and nobody looks into them if they happen in Idaho. Everybody knows this is a ridiculous claim, but coming from someone who perpetuates widely discredited conspiracies (e.g. Chemtrails) I truly don't know if wolfbait is simply providing a nuanced fact that is trivial to the discussion or if he is purporting some broad conspiracy by the government to hide wolf attacks. My money is on the latter.
There's plenty of predator incidents covered up in Idaho, because many locals simply SSS.
Post by: bigtex on August 02, 2018, 06:39:59 PM
For wildlife attacks the state (WDFW) is the lead agency.Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
For domestic animals it is the city/county that is responsible.
Snoqualmie-North Bend PD did not respond as it was outside city limits. King County SO did respond, but it's WDFW's case. Quite simply, local law enforcement isn't trained in wildlife attacks, the responding deputies may not know the difference between a cougar and a Siberian tiger.
As far as the feds go they will certainly be notified but they are spread thin and WDFW officers are deputized as USFWS LEOs.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 02, 2018, 06:43:43 PM
Post by: bigtex on August 02, 2018, 06:55:58 PM
I think an attack that is 'in-progress' is different than something where the problem animal has already moved on.In terms of LE response sure, everybody and their brother should be responding to an attack in progress.. But the investigating agency will still be WDFW.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 02, 2018, 07:31:30 PM
For wildlife attacks the state (WDFW) is the lead agency.Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
For domestic animals it is the city/county that is responsible.
Snoqualmie-North Bend PD did not respond as it was outside city limits. King County SO did respond, but it's WDFW's case. Quite simply, local law enforcement isn't trained in wildlife attacks, the responding deputies may not know the difference between a cougar and a Siberian tiger.
As far as the feds go they will certainly be notified but they are spread thin and WDFW officers are deputized as USFWS LEOs.
Your statement about deputies not knowing the difference between a cougar attack of wolf attack isn't true. A friend of mine that is a Stevens County Detective was trained in the difference between a cougar attack/kill and a wolf attack/kill on domestic animals at the McGirvins.
Post by: bigtex on August 02, 2018, 07:36:47 PM
Yes some deputies have been trained on wolf/cougar attacks, specifically those counties in NE WA. But that is it, it's not taught at the police academy. And no King County deputies have gone thru the training.Your statement about deputies not knowing the difference between a cougar attack of wolf attack isn't true. A friend of mine that is a Stevens County Detective was trained in the difference between a cougar attack/kill and a wolf attack/kill on domestic animals at the McGirvins.For wildlife attacks the state (WDFW) is the lead agency.Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
For domestic animals it is the city/county that is responsible.
Snoqualmie-North Bend PD did not respond as it was outside city limits. King County SO did respond, but it's WDFW's case. Quite simply, local law enforcement isn't trained in wildlife attacks, the responding deputies may not know the difference between a cougar and a Siberian tiger.
As far as the feds go they will certainly be notified but they are spread thin and WDFW officers are deputized as USFWS LEOs.
I also didn't see where I said every single deputy wouldn't know the difference between a tiger and a cougar, obviously some would know. There's a well known story from a couple years ago about a deputy who called WDFW about a deer issue but didn't know the difference between a buck and a doe.
Post by: olyguy79 on August 02, 2018, 07:43:28 PM
There are less than 20 sheriffs deputies in WA trained on wildlife attacks. There are several thousand sheriffs deputies in WA.For wildlife attacks the state (WDFW) is the lead agency.Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
For domestic animals it is the city/county that is responsible.
Snoqualmie-North Bend PD did not respond as it was outside city limits. King County SO did respond, but it's WDFW's case. Quite simply, local law enforcement isn't trained in wildlife attacks, the responding deputies may not know the difference between a cougar and a Siberian tiger.
As far as the feds go they will certainly be notified but they are spread thin and WDFW officers are deputized as USFWS LEOs.
Your statement about deputies not knowing the difference between a cougar attack of wolf attack isn't true. A friend of mine that is a Stevens County Detective was trained in the difference between a cougar attack/kill and a wolf attack/kill on domestic animals at the McGirvins.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Alpine Mojo on August 02, 2018, 07:50:21 PM
There are less than 20 sheriffs deputies in WA trained on wildlife attacks. There are several thousand sheriffs deputies in WA.
Bazinga!
Post by: MtnMuley on August 02, 2018, 08:40:28 PM
Come on folks, where is this thread really headed? It's pretty silly to argue that the Sheriffs Office is out of line at all.After all, they pretty "trump" all other agencies in their jurisdiction, right? No pun intended
Post by: bigtex on August 02, 2018, 08:55:28 PM
How much common sense does it take for any LE officer to be able to investigate a threat? Be it a dog, wolf, thug, terrorist...........to tell the internet crowd that only 20 LEO's here are "trained" in dealing with wildlife attacks is laughable at best. Also, to think any local sheriffs office wouldn't investigate any threat to a person's life when they call in, 30 foot up a tree, is laughable as well.We're not talking about "threats" we're talking about the actual attack. Ok you have a body (human or animal) what killed it?
Come on folks, where is this thread really headed? It's pretty silly to argue that the Sheriffs Office is out of line at all.After all, they pretty "trump" all other agencies in their jurisdiction, right? No pun intended
Of course the sheriff's office should respond to an attack, especially one in progress, but they're not going to be the lead agency especially once the attack is over and the actual investigation occurs.
If you take someone who's never been involved with wildlife in their life do you think they'd be able to 100% decipher a wolf attack from a cougar, or a bear or a dog? Of course not. Are there deputies that hunt? Sure. Are there lots that don't hunt? Of course!
As far as attacking the "training" aspect welcome to government. When an attack occurs and someone gets sued and the investigating deputy is on the witness stand and it turns out the only training in wildlife attacks is being a hunter, growing up in the woods, do you think that's going to go well for him? That's like saying you shouldn't have to go to a police academy, just watch 6 months of the show cops.
Post by: MtnMuley on August 02, 2018, 09:02:33 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on August 02, 2018, 09:58:11 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 06, 2018, 05:47:02 AM
For wildlife attacks the state (WDFW) is the lead agency.Wolfbait did not say that no one would investigate, only that USFWS may be declining to investigate and leaving it up to local police. Wolves are delisted statewide in Idaho leaving management to the state (including investigations)Do local police investigate when a bear attacks someone?
(but I get that it's far more fun to paint wolfbait as a tinfoil hat conspiracy wacko)
Did the city of North Bend Police investigate when the lion killed that person on the timber land?
I guess I always assumed that the WDFW investigates. Maybe when it's an ESA animal, the feds would investigate?
Anyone know the actual protocol here, tinfoil hats or not aside?
@bigtex ?
For domestic animals it is the city/county that is responsible.
Snoqualmie-North Bend PD did not respond as it was outside city limits. King County SO did respond, but it's WDFW's case. Quite simply, local law enforcement isn't trained in wildlife attacks, the responding deputies may not know the difference between a cougar and a Siberian tiger.
As far as the feds go they will certainly be notified but they are spread thin and WDFW officers are deputized as USFWS LEOs.
Most counties true, but not totally correct. In Stevens county our Sherrif's dept is trained and we have a county depredation investigator. This happened because we were not getting good service from WDFW!
Post by: bearpaw on August 06, 2018, 05:59:08 AM
Rescue response delayed for woman treed by wolves in Washington
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/rescue-response-delayed-for-woman-treed-by-wolves-in-washington/277-580035863
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 06, 2018, 08:07:26 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 06, 2018, 08:09:43 AM
Not to change the subject, but this reminds me of when the USFS employee's were calling for water drops up thirty mile, and the USFS and the fish environmentalists were haggling back and forth trying to decide if they could or should dip water out of Lost River, we all know how that turned out, big cover-up.
USFWS-WDFW=Wolves come first everything/one else is expendable...
Post by: jstone on August 06, 2018, 08:34:59 AM
Just go get her safe then figure it out later.!!! :bash:
Post by: SkookumHntr on August 06, 2018, 09:37:35 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 06, 2018, 09:44:25 AM
I hope they post the names of the wdfw employees who told the search and rescue team to stand down!
That would be interesting but doubt they will?
Post by: bigmacc on August 06, 2018, 11:35:05 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 06, 2018, 11:58:53 AM
Great find bearpaw, this whole wolf deal has kind of "smelled" for years, its really beginning to stink as time goes by and the WDFW wonders why people don't put a lot of faith or trust into them, we really do need a separate agency to take care of hunting and fishing interests in this state, an actual Fish and Game dept that looks over and has the interest of hunters and fisherman as job 1 and let the WDFW care to there predators, lizards, snakes and other "wildlife". I truly think the they are stretched to thin, being pulled in to many directions, have too many irons in the fire, too many conflicts of interests, too many special interest groups to cater to and so on and our interests as hunters and fisherman have fallen way down the list.
:yeah:
How much do you see on the home page about hunting! :twocents:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/
Post by: bigmacc on August 06, 2018, 01:31:49 PM
Great find bearpaw, this whole wolf deal has kind of "smelled" for years, its really beginning to stink as time goes by and the WDFW wonders why people don't put a lot of faith or trust into them, we really do need a separate agency to take care of hunting and fishing interests in this state, an actual Fish and Game dept that looks over and has the interest of hunters and fisherman as job 1 and let the WDFW care to there predators, lizards, snakes and other "wildlife". I truly think the they are stretched to thin, being pulled in to many directions, have too many irons in the fire, too many conflicts of interests, too many special interest groups to cater to and so on and our interests as hunters and fisherman have fallen way down the list.
:yeah:
How much do you see on the home page about hunting! :twocents:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/
Exactly! :yeah:
Post by: wolfbait on August 06, 2018, 02:09:31 PM
Great find bearpaw, this whole wolf deal has kind of "smelled" for years, its really beginning to stink as time goes by and the WDFW wonders why people don't put a lot of faith or trust into them, we really do need a separate agency to take care of hunting and fishing interests in this state, an actual Fish and Game dept that looks over and has the interest of hunters and fisherman as job 1 and let the WDFW care to there predators, lizards, snakes and other "wildlife". I truly think the they are stretched to thin, being pulled in to many directions, have too many irons in the fire, too many conflicts of interests, too many special interest groups to cater to and so on and our interests as hunters and fisherman have fallen way down the list.
:yeah:
How much do you see on the home page about hunting! :twocents:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/
:yeah: :bash:
X2
Post by: Alpine Mojo on August 06, 2018, 05:54:13 PM
Rescue response delayed for woman treed by wolves in Washington
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/rescue-response-delayed-for-woman-treed-by-wolves-in-washington/277-580035863
Waiting to see how Bigtex tries to spin this.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 06, 2018, 06:23:42 PM
I am wondering does WDFW actually think wolves are harmless? Or were they hoping for the best, fearing the worst that they would have to call in their extra expensive helo snipers and then get yelled at by the legislature (Ranker) and Inslee?
Post by: buglebrush on August 06, 2018, 07:05:03 PM
Rescue response delayed for woman treed by wolves in Washington
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/rescue-response-delayed-for-woman-treed-by-wolves-in-washington/277-580035863
Waiting to see how Bigtex tries to spin this.
I honestly feel sorry for him. It must be hard to come to grips with what WDFW has become, but I'm also hoping people open their eyes to what is happening to this state.
Post by: Alchase on August 06, 2018, 07:12:16 PM
I have found that he is a straight shooter, and tells it like it is from an insiders point of view.
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
You may disagree with him, but he tells the side of the story we don't usually get to see.
Post by: bracer40 on August 06, 2018, 08:03:34 PM
Bigtex has been a great asset for us on Hunting Washington over the years.
I have found that he is a straight shooter, and tells it like it is from an insiders point of view.
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
You may disagree with him, but he tells the side of the story we don't usually get to see.
Absolutely agree with this. I know we all have our unique set of beliefs, bias’s and opinions....but I have always appreciated Big Tex’s factual and informative posts on every topic I’ve seen him chime in on. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to work for an organization that seems to squander away the resources we all love to enjoy and recreate in.
#BigTex: Thank You!
Post by: dontgetcrabs on August 06, 2018, 08:37:17 PM
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
Like what?
Post by: wolfbait on August 06, 2018, 08:40:11 PM
The wolf consultant kool aid must be working.....on WDFW.
I am wondering does WDFW actually think wolves are harmless? Or were they hoping for the best, fearing the worst that they would have to call in their extra expensive helo snipers and then get yelled at by the legislature (Ranker) and Inslee?
If they would have to shoot a wolf you can bet, it would turn out to be the breeding female, even if it had the twig and berries.
Mech said, what turn the public against wolves was lack of wolf control, we are now past that stage. Few more incidences like the last one and the public might take stronger action without WDF&Wolves approval, or WDFW might realize they have to step up delisting-Doubtful.
Post by: Dan-o on August 06, 2018, 09:37:34 PM
Bigtex has been a great asset for us on Hunting Washington over the years.
I have found that he is a straight shooter, and tells it like it is from an insiders point of view.
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
You may disagree with him, but he tells the side of the story we don't usually get to see.
Absolutely agree with this. I know we all have our unique set of beliefs, bias’s and opinions....but I have always appreciated Big Tex’s factual and informative posts on every topic I’ve seen him chime in on. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to work for an organization that seems to squander away the resources we all love to enjoy and recreate in.
#BigTex: Thank You!
Bigtex has provided actual information on LOTS of topics on this board.
He is absolutely a great resource.
I doubt I'd ever agree with anyone 100%, but he posts lots of flat fact.... not just opinion.
Post by: bigmacc on August 07, 2018, 07:47:21 AM
The wolf consultant kool aid must be working.....on WDFW.
I am wondering does WDFW actually think wolves are harmless? Or were they hoping for the best, fearing the worst that they would have to call in their extra expensive helo snipers and then get yelled at by the legislature (Ranker) and Inslee?
If they would have to shoot a wolf you can bet, it would turn out to be the breeding female, even if it had the twig and berries.
Mech said, what turn the public against wolves was lack of wolf control, we are now past that stage. Few more incidences like the last one and the public might take stronger action without WDF&Wolves approval, or WDFW might realize they have to step up delisting-Doubtful.
Well. theres going to be more run-ins with these things, like I said awhile ago (for at least the Methow) its just a matter of time before something even worse happens with wolves involved. The amount of hikers, cross country skiers, joggers etc.that are out there is growing not to mention hunters, backcountry fisherman and other recreation that is booming here. I really think more of this stuff will increase and chances are the outcomes will be worse eventually. The Methow Valley along with its growing recreational opportunities and a growing population is really the last place apex predators should be being protected and nurtured, someone will eventually need to be held accountable when the unthinkable happens.... :twocents:
Post by: Alpine Mojo on August 07, 2018, 03:57:35 PM
Well. theres going to be more run-ins with these things, like I said awhile ago (for at least the Methow) its just a matter of time before something even worse happens with wolves involved. The amount of hikers, cross country skiers, joggers etc.that are out there is growing not to mention hunters, backcountry fisherman and other recreation that is booming here. I really think more of this stuff will increase and chances are the outcomes will be worse eventually. The Methow Valley along with its growing recreational opportunities and a growing population is really the last place apex predators should be being protected and nurtured, someone will eventually need to be held accountable when the unthinkable happens.... :twocents:
Once the government has determined that human life is less important than an endangered species, no one will be held accountable.
Post by: buglebrush on August 07, 2018, 10:46:25 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 08, 2018, 10:08:58 PM
Rescue response delayed for woman treed by wolves in Washington
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/rescue-response-delayed-for-woman-treed-by-wolves-in-washington/277-580035863
Waiting to see how Bigtex tries to spin this.
Bigtex is a huge asset to this community and he has my thanks for participating. Certainly none of us share all the same views, that's just life, but bigtex deserves a lot of credit for all the great info he shares with everyone on this forum!
Thanks bigtex :hello:
Post by: jackelope on August 11, 2018, 08:43:02 AM
Rescue response delayed for woman treed by wolves in Washington
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/rescue-response-delayed-for-woman-treed-by-wolves-in-washington/277-580035863
Waiting to see how Bigtex tries to spin this.
Lame.
If there's anyone on the forum that doesn't deserve an insult like that, it's Bigtex.
Post by: Alpine Mojo on August 11, 2018, 05:19:27 PM
Post by: gaddy on August 11, 2018, 06:31:05 PM
Post by: Dan-o on August 11, 2018, 06:43:43 PM
I think it is despicable that a government agency would prioritize anything in front of human life. It is indefensible to think that human life is less important than any wildlife, endangered species or not. What if it was a family member of yours? Wife or daughter? When the rescue efforts were told to "stand down"? You would have a very different point of view. Think before you run your mouth off in defense of others.
Do you have any inside information that allows you to understand the nature of the "stand down" order?
I've seen other stand downs for lots of reasons...... usually confusion and lack of coherent information.
I'm not picking a fight here. If there is other info that shows that leadership ordered te stand down knowing they were putting human life at risk for the sake of a wolf, I'd like to see it.
Post by: boneaddict on August 11, 2018, 08:11:39 PM
Post by: Alchase on August 11, 2018, 08:24:28 PM
From every thing I have seen, Bigtex doesn't "Spin " things. He will tell you what is or isn't and I appreciate that. It is up to you to believe or not. As others have said-- Thanks Bigtex for your input.
Agree, any spin comes from your own mind.
Post by: Caseyd on August 11, 2018, 08:39:47 PM
Won’t need to worry about these wolves anymore. New fire and it’s ripping I guess.
17 new starts from lightening in methow ranger district.
Wind this afternoon was really getting after it
Post by: boneaddict on August 11, 2018, 09:16:17 PM
Post by: wolfbait on August 12, 2018, 07:17:36 AM
They are getting big fast
I wonder how many years this will set delisting back? 10-20 years.....
Hope they get the ESA fixed.
Post by: buglebrush on August 13, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
Like what?
Yes, I'm politely curious? I've seen a definite tendency to defend WDFW. Look at this thread alone. It's fine. We all have bias, and his has simply been in favor of WDFW. :dunno:
Post by: HighlandLofts on August 13, 2018, 05:03:10 PM
Some thing in the air make the objects you see appear bigger then they actually are.
Just like you when you see a cougar, hold your hands over your head to appear bigger then you actually are. Sound advice from.our game department.
The no wolf response from the game department is ALL WAYS SOUND AND FACTUAL.
Post by: bornhunter on August 13, 2018, 08:59:45 PM
Post by: wolfbait on August 14, 2018, 06:45:39 AM
It's all fake, there are no.wolves, just coyotes or family pets. All this talk over imaginary objects. The deer and elk just migrated out of the area, it happens every 500 years when the unicorns start to make a come back.
Some thing in the air make the objects you see appear bigger then they actually are.
Just like you when you see a cougar, hold your hands over your head to appear bigger then you actually are. Sound advice from.our game department.
The no wolf response from the game department is ALL WAYS SOUND AND FACTUAL.
Should start a poll on how many people believe the public would have heard about this latest wolf incident if there wouldn't have been a 911 call.
Post by: Alchase on August 14, 2018, 10:19:32 AM
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
Like what?
Yes, I'm politely curious? I've seen a definite tendency to defend WDFW. Look at this thread alone. It's fine. We all have bias, and his has simply been in favor of WDFW. :dunno:
Here are just two of many, one is 58 pages worth of reading
"uc_worden" was another who use to post great information
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,227087.0/all.html
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,149702.855.html
Search tool will help you see the light.
Post by: idahohuntr on August 14, 2018, 12:45:01 PM
While we all may have our biases - I think more often people just like to polarize issues and it's either "you're against me or you're with me."
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
Like what?
Yes, I'm politely curious? I've seen a definite tendency to defend WDFW. Look at this thread alone. It's fine. We all have bias, and his has simply been in favor of WDFW. :dunno:
Here are just two of many, one is 58 pages worth of reading
"uc_worden" was another who use to post great information
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,227087.0/all.html
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,149702.855.html
Search tool will help you see the light.
In reality, a few folks are actually independent and think for themselves and evaluate issues case by case using facts and logical reasoning to define their position. I would argue Bigtex is in this camp...he doesn't blindly defend WDFW...his positions are usually grounded in facts, logic, and reason.
This is different than most folks who see a topic (Wolves, WDFW, a politician etc.) and without much evaluation stake out their polarized position and defend it at all cost.
Post by: Alchase on August 14, 2018, 03:10:02 PM
Post by: bracer40 on August 14, 2018, 09:52:43 PM
I don’t know if I could have stated this any better if I’d sweated over it for days...While we all may have our biases - I think more often people just like to polarize issues and it's either "you're against me or you're with me."
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
Like what?
Yes, I'm politely curious? I've seen a definite tendency to defend WDFW. Look at this thread alone. It's fine. We all have bias, and his has simply been in favor of WDFW. :dunno:
Here are just two of many, one is 58 pages worth of reading
"uc_worden" was another who use to post great information
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,227087.0/all.html
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,149702.855.html
Search tool will help you see the light.
In reality, a few folks are actually independent and think for themselves and evaluate issues case by case using facts and logical reasoning to define their position. I would argue Bigtex is in this camp...he doesn't blindly defend WDFW...his positions are usually grounded in facts, logic, and reason.
This is different than most folks who see a topic (Wolves, WDFW, a politician etc.) and without much evaluation stake out their polarized position and defend it at all cost.
This is something that has driven me away from forums and other social media sites over the past 2-4 years. The tribalism that seems to cause people to almost blindly, draw lines in the sand...us against them, dems vs. conservatives, left vs right, hunters vs antis, and on & on.....
I can’t imagine having the kind of conversations f2f I see online. My mother raised me better than that...and IMO, life is rarely as simple as black or white, on or off. We are far more complex, regardless of whatever dogma some might ascribe to..... I imagine I’d enjoy sharing a campfire with most everyone on this forum. Would we have some major differences?
I’m certain of it.. heck, I have major differences with some in my family, people I love and call friends, and some really great hunting partners over the years. But the cool thing is....the things that bind us together...love for the outdoors, adventure, camaraderie, shared suffering....whatever it is... Hopefully we might all just slow down a few minutes before firing away at the keyboard :hello:
Post by: Dan-o on August 14, 2018, 10:06:27 PM
While we all may have our biases - I think more often people just like to polarize issues and it's either "you're against me or you're with me."
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
Like what?
Yes, I'm politely curious? I've seen a definite tendency to defend WDFW. Look at this thread alone. It's fine. We all have bias, and his has simply been in favor of WDFW. :dunno:
Here are just two of many, one is 58 pages worth of reading
"uc_worden" was another who use to post great information
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,227087.0/all.html
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,149702.855.html
Search tool will help you see the light.
In reality, a few folks are actually independent and think for themselves and evaluate issues case by case using facts and logical reasoning to define their position. I would argue Bigtex is in this camp...he doesn't blindly defend WDFW...his positions are usually grounded in facts, logic, and reason.
This is different than most folks who see a topic (Wolves, WDFW, a politician etc.) and without much evaluation stake out their polarized position and defend it at all cost.
Whoa there, wolf lover! ;)
Post by: bracer40 on August 14, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
While we all may have our biases - I think more often people just like to polarize issues and it's either "you're against me or you're with me."
He has disagreed with many things the WDFW has done over the years.
Like what?
Yes, I'm politely curious? I've seen a definite tendency to defend WDFW. Look at this thread alone. It's fine. We all have bias, and his has simply been in favor of WDFW. :dunno:
Here are just two of many, one is 58 pages worth of reading
"uc_worden" was another who use to post great information
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,227087.0/all.html
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,149702.855.html
Search tool will help you see the light.
In reality, a few folks are actually independent and think for themselves and evaluate issues case by case using facts and logical reasoning to define their position. I would argue Bigtex is in this camp...he doesn't blindly defend WDFW...his positions are usually grounded in facts, logic, and reason.
This is different than most folks who see a topic (Wolves, WDFW, a politician etc.) and without much evaluation stake out their polarized position and defend it at all cost.
Whoa there, wolf lover! ;)
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I’d love to hear one this September ( as long as it’s not in an area I’m hunting)....and I’d love to put my first Idaho tag on one ( $30 some ) well worth the chance... sure not going to put an elk tag on it.