Free: Contests & Raffles.
This must be why the elk population in Yellowstone plummeted after wolf introduction apparently the cougar population exploded at the same time.
Just because one predator kills fewer game animals than another predator doesn't make it a "good" animal. Both wolves and cougars kill game animals that could have been killed by hunters. Both need to be aggressively managed.
Quote from: Bob33 on August 08, 2019, 07:42:28 PMJust because one predator kills fewer game animals than another predator doesn't make it a "good" animal. Both wolves and cougars kill game animals that could have been killed by hunters. Both need to be aggressively managed.Agreed.Also, it makes sense to me that if an ecosystem has reach equilibrium, if you add another apex predator, the new equilibrium will not look the same.
Quote from: meatwhack on August 08, 2019, 06:43:02 PMThis must be why the elk population in Yellowstone plummeted after wolf introduction apparently the cougar population exploded at the same time.I actually watched a really interesting documentary that was trying to make the case that LAKE TROUT were a big factor in the decline of elk in Yellowstone.No joke.Somebody dumped Lake Trout into Yellowstone lake. The Lake Trout decimated the Brook Trout......Those Brook Trout spawning in the Spring were THE big protien source for Grizzlies....Now they are basically gone.The Griz that used to eat them had to switch to something else in the Spring and many of them switched to elk calves.So went the Wildlife Biologists theory.I'm not saying I buy it or I don't, because I don't know enough to know.But.... I was 100% in the camp of "wolves wiped out Yellowstone elk", and after watching that documentary, I am no longer sure.....Please don't call me a wolf lover.....
There’s a flaw in the logic of looking at this as 1 cougar vs 1 wolf. The one cougar has a home range as large as a pack of 10 to 12 wolfs so that 10 to 12 wolfs are going to be killing 10 times as many animals as the 1 cougar that is in the area.
Quote from: Dan-o on August 08, 2019, 07:26:35 PMQuote from: meatwhack on August 08, 2019, 06:43:02 PMThis must be why the elk population in Yellowstone plummeted after wolf introduction apparently the cougar population exploded at the same time.I actually watched a really interesting documentary that was trying to make the case that LAKE TROUT were a big factor in the decline of elk in Yellowstone.No joke.Somebody dumped Lake Trout into Yellowstone lake. The Lake Trout decimated the Brook Trout......Those Brook Trout spawning in the Spring were THE big protien source for Grizzlies....Now they are basically gone.The Griz that used to eat them had to switch to something else in the Spring and many of them switched to elk calves.So went the Wildlife Biologists theory.I'm not saying I buy it or I don't, because I don't know enough to know.But.... I was 100% in the camp of "wolves wiped out Yellowstone elk", and after watching that documentary, I am no longer sure.....Please don't call me a wolf lover.....I've never known of any spring spawning brook trout, all fall spawners. Not saying they don't exist just never known of any. Maybe they were postulating about Yellowstone cutthroats? The Yellowstone lake population is severely impacted by lake trout, but there are still abundant Yellowstone cuts in the rivers and tributary streams.
wdfw needs to get back to calling predators predators rather than big game animals. They need to be managed in the same manner as coyotes, even then, they will thrive.
Wolves were INTRODUCED and protected. They are what pushed us into a predator pit. Prior to wolves, our populations were growing. Post wolves, they're shrinking. Why don't these obviously biased studies about this? They also take away lots of lion kills thereby forcing the Lions to kill more than they used to. It's all propaganda... Trying to assuage the righteous anger over what they INTRODUCED.
Quote from: buglebrush on August 10, 2019, 10:41:16 AMWolves were INTRODUCED and protected. They are what pushed us into a predator pit. Prior to wolves, our populations were growing. Post wolves, they're shrinking. Why don't these obviously biased studies about this? They also take away lots of lion kills thereby forcing the Lions to kill more than they used to. It's all propaganda... Trying to assuage the righteous anger over what they INTRODUCED. waaay more lions in the panhandle in the 90s and early 2000 and there were twice as many elk. The honest f & G people said that wolves were stealing lion kills and forcing lions to hunt more often- another big factor in the study often left out. I am good with Idaho's management of wolves so far I think we will enjoy good elk hunting for a long time but it will never be as good as it was and some areas will probably never recover. I just hate the dishonesty of trying to point the figure at another predator when everyone that has hunted Idaho elk for a long time know for a fact that herds dwindled when WOLVES showed up in large numbers.I don't care why-maybe it was just stacking a new predator on top of the ones already here or wolves are just killing machines. It doesn't matter they just need to acknowledge that they introduced wolves and in many areas elk collapsed. I am sick of all the misdirection in these "studies" Bears and Lions were always here in larger numbers than they are today. IDFG declared war on lions and bears and they were not the problem. Anybody that has hunted bears and lions for a long time in north Idaho I think would also tell you we have LESS bears and cougars than we did. Also the age structure of our cats and bears tends to get younger every year I think. Just what I see I don't know maybe Bearpaw and others have a different experience. I followed Bearpaw season and they knocked down some whopper bears. I know for a fact we have less lions where I hunt and they as a general rule are younger