collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Battery system for emergency well power  (Read 4349 times)

Online b0bbyg

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 2883
  • Location: SW Wa
Battery system for emergency well power
« on: January 21, 2024, 10:39:47 PM »
Looking for a system to power well house if power goes out.
Well is a 30 amp circuit, well house has 40 amp main breaker.

Thinking a battery system that could get me by a while in a pinch and in non severe weather events could be used in green house spring/fall to extend growing seasons. During this time would use solar panels to recharge.

Curious if anyone has a system like this or has opinions. Would like something that serves multiple uses that if oight enough could be used for summer trips in a camper, or at hunting camp for power.

Starting to explore options and seems like there are a few out there, some too heavy to move around much
In God we trust, all others bring cash.

Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
Ecclesiastes 7 10

Offline Scruffy

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 276
  • Location: Darrington, & Aeneas Valley, WA
  • Groups: NRA, RMEF
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2024, 11:05:58 PM »
I am just starting to dabble in solar for my trailer.  Your well is probably 220V like mine and I think would draw too much power for batteries unless you had a huge bank of them.  Using it in a green house on solar, the well would be kicking on frequently.  You would need a big solar array to recharge fast enough.  I think you need a back up generator for a reliable power source for what you are asking.  Just my  :twocents:
I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC

Offline Skillet

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+43)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 5770
  • Location: Sitka, AK
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2024, 11:29:19 PM »
 :yeah:
If the well power is out, the rest of the house power is out too.  Water cooled aux genset best option, IMHO.
KABOOM Count - 1

"The ocean is calling, and I must go."

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
     - Gordon Lightfoot

Offline Magnum_Willys

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 5555
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2024, 06:34:24 AM »
Your cheapest option is to splice a 220V cord connection in the line that supplys pump with power.  Buy a 6500w gas generator and plug a 220v - 30A extension cord into it.  Run that cord to where pump line connection is.   When power goes out unplug pump cord from panel socket and plug into generator socket and fire up generator.  Guy I bought rental from did that for 30 years.   Caveat:  Chk with local electrian and municipalies of course.

Or for $20k propane generator or Tesla battery pack and solar panels are readily available. 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 08:00:18 AM by Magnum_Willys »

Offline WSU

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 5458
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2024, 07:39:31 AM »
I use a gas generator.

Online b0bbyg

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 2883
  • Location: SW Wa
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2024, 08:27:34 AM »
Thanks all for the replies, I still have interest and will do more research, but it may be more than is reasonable for a battery solution.
To be clear it is more wanting a battery system that could serve in a pinch, not a solar array that could run the well by itself.
Some solar in greenhouse when emergency not looming and use it there during that time.

Batteries expensive but getting better and more portable with some solutions so fun to explore the options.

But may be getting put on back burner as heat pump gave up the ghost recently :yike:
In God we trust, all others bring cash.

Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
Ecclesiastes 7 10

Offline MeepDog

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2021
  • Posts: 671
  • Location: SE Washington
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2024, 10:38:44 AM »
10kw inverter would be good for 41amps at 240v. Those will run you around $2k but the battery system to run an inverter that size would be pretty expensive as well. Then you have the charging system for that battery bank.

You would need some sort of wired in extra plug that ideally would have an interlock to run because if you just slap power on the circuit youll back feed your house and put juice onto the rest of the grid if your main circuit breaker is still closed in. All of this still applies with a generator as well. I could be mistaken but I believe its a code requirement to have some sort of interlock in place for a generator plug attached to your home circuits.

Offline Mudman

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 7342
  • Location: Wetside rock garden.
  • Get R Done.
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2024, 11:07:08 AM »
do transfer switch and genny.  4000w 30amp gen. will do it mininum but larger should be used.  Or for $ well spent do whole house panel switch and large genny.  You can throw in batts and inverters later if desired?
MAGA!  Again..

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50378
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2024, 11:11:43 AM »
My well comes off its own breaker out by the main meter, and does not come off the House box.   Be conscious of what the transfer switch will let you power if hooking a genny in is what I am saying.   

Offline CP

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2008
  • Posts: 6853
  • Location: Mukilteo
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2024, 03:42:42 PM »
Something like this should do the job:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BJK2G52L/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aref=XEkKFMtJIY

Hard to say how much battery/inverter that you need without more info on the pump motor.


Online b0bbyg

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 2883
  • Location: SW Wa
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2024, 08:31:48 PM »
My well comes off its own breaker out by the main meter, and does not come off the House box.   Be conscious of what the transfer switch will let you power if hooking a genny in is what I am saying.

I have a similar setup, small well house with 40 amp dedicated service.

Well house was powered off original service for a mobile home, I convinced power company to leave that service when new house was built with a new line pulled in.

Whatever I put in i want a proper switch installed for safety and no back feed of power
In God we trust, all others bring cash.

Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
Ecclesiastes 7 10

Offline Reidus

  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 875
  • Location: Tri-Cities
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2024, 08:40:35 PM »
Could just install a water storage tank that is always full and then install a small pump with a couple batteries not connected to your power system to use when power is out....until your batteries are dead or your tank is empty. I'd imagine a small pump would run quite a while on a couple deep cycles.

Offline huntinguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 166
  • Location: Washington
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2024, 05:42:22 AM »
interesting discussion. I am in the same boat, trying to figure how to power my well pumps when the power goes out.

Re. Reidus's comment: I have a pump in the well that is about 40 amps, that feeds a cistern that has a 35 amp pump that feeds the line to the house. That was about as small as I could go and still meet the needs of the house. I was very surprised the pump had to be so big...

As for power requirements... there is something... I think it is called "armature lock" amperage that defines how large the generator needs to be. That is, as I understand it, the power required to start the motion of the pump. It is significantly higher than the run amperage.

I have thought of a gasoline generator as others suggested. The "new" gas has a habit of killing carburetors. so, for me that is out.

Battery backup with solar or line voltage to keep them charged is an interesting thought. but, I keep thinking, what if power is out for a week... (I worry too much).

I keep coming back to a propane (no natural gas where we are at) as it seems the best option for a no touch system.

My house and pumps are on different feeds also.... so, one or two generators becomes the question... or run a separate gas line to separate  generators or one large generator and separate out the power feeds.

check and see, many of the pumps are 3 phase and are electronically converted. The generator signal has to be very clean from what I understand, or it will take out the electronics.

IF  you do go with a propane system, some propane companies give a discount for a complete fill if you have a 1000 gallon tank. It doesn't matter how much it takes to top off the tank, you still get the discount. So check that out as well. An above ground rental is much cheaper that a buried, purchased tank. So...

I will keep watching this thread...

Offline 300rum

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 2346
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2024, 05:58:22 AM »
I have a Honda 7kw, the expensive, quite one on a transfer switch.  https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is 

Then I have a Simple Pump Deep Well Pump.  https://simplepump.com/products/deep-well-pump

I'm going to be installing or at least having on hand the solar option soon.  https://simplepump.com/our-pumps/solar-power

The simple pump is very high quality and would be fine alone for a family in an emergency but I have animals and a garden.  We had a power outage for 8+ hours when it was over 100 degrees a few years back and picked up the Honda, quickly!   

Offline Whitpirate

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 2026
  • Location: Duvall, by way of Spokane/Metaline Falls
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2024, 06:14:41 AM »
Take a look at the EcoFlow Delta Ultra.  Or just a delta Pro.  I’m looking to go ultra with two batteries and a smart home panel and run the house.  Solar I put and generator charging too.  Ultra isn’t cheap but it’s cheaper than a generac auto start for me.

Offline Magnum_Willys

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 5555
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2024, 08:55:44 AM »
interesting discussion. I am in the same boat, trying to figure how to power my well pumps when the power goes out.

Re. Reidus's comment: I have a pump in the well that is about 40 amps, that feeds a cistern that has a 35 amp pump that feeds the line to the house. That was about as small as I could go and still meet the needs of the house. I was very surprised the pump had to be so big...

As for power requirements... there is something... I think it is called "armature lock" amperage that defines how large the generator needs to be. That is, as I understand it, the power required to start the motion of the pump. It is significantly higher than the run amperage.

I have thought of a gasoline generator as others suggested. The "new" gas has a habit of killing carburetors. so, for me that is out.

Battery backup with solar or line voltage to keep them charged is an interesting thought. but, I keep thinking, what if power is out for a week... (I worry too much).

I keep coming back to a propane (no natural gas where we are at) as it seems the best option for a no touch system.

My house and pumps are on different feeds also.... so, one or two generators becomes the question... or run a separate gas line to separate  generators or one large generator and separate out the power feeds.

check and see, many of the pumps are 3 phase and are electronically converted. The generator signal has to be very clean from what I understand, or it will take out the electronics.

IF  you do go with a propane system, some propane companies give a discount for a complete fill if you have a 1000 gallon tank. It doesn't matter how much it takes to top off the tank, you still get the discount. So check that out as well. An above ground rental is much cheaper that a buried, purchased tank. So...

I will keep watching this thread...

I have similar setup, electrician said to move well circuit to its own separate breaker panel next to meter so it and house panel can connect to one generator via one or two transfer switches.
Total cost for system was $20k :-0
Holding off for now.  I have a storage tank running a supplimental 12V pump off that to keep pressure may be better idea. 

Offline andersonjk4

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 1279
  • Location: Spangle, WA
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2024, 08:56:38 AM »
Take a look at the EcoFlow Delta Ultra.  Or just a delta Pro.  I’m looking to go ultra with two batteries and a smart home panel and run the house.  Solar I put and generator charging too.  Ultra isn’t cheap but it’s cheaper than a generac auto start for me.

 :yeah:

And Home Depot has them onsale today

https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoFlow-3600W-Output-7200W-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Battery-Generator-DELTA-Pro-w-LFP-Battery-Fast-Charging-Home-Camping-RVs-DELTAPro-US/318689313

Offline Reidus

  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 875
  • Location: Tri-Cities
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2024, 01:58:02 PM »
If you use a soft start or vfd your peak draw of your pump will be approximately the same as the FLA.

A 12v washdown pump for a boat will do 4-5gpm, enough to run 1 appliance...maybe 2 at 50-60psi. It already has a pressure switch and will turn on and off based on pressure. Max draw of 10A. With 2 100ah lead acid batteries figure 100ah of available power means a minimum of 10 hours of solid runtime but most likely more. So for $200 for a pump, some plumbing parts, a 100gal tank, and 2 deep cycle batteries, you'd probably be good for a couple days.

Online b0bbyg

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 2883
  • Location: SW Wa
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2024, 02:00:19 PM »
Take a look at the EcoFlow Delta Ultra.  Or just a delta Pro.  I’m looking to go ultra with two batteries and a smart home panel and run the house.  Solar I put and generator charging too.  Ultra isn’t cheap but it’s cheaper than a generac auto start for me.

 :yeah:

And Home Depot has them onsale today

https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoFlow-3600W-Output-7200W-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Battery-Generator-DELTA-Pro-w-LFP-Battery-Fast-Charging-Home-Camping-RVs-DELTAPro-US/318689313

Weight is not too horrible, think I could drag that where needed.   :chuckle:
In God we trust, all others bring cash.

Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
Ecclesiastes 7 10

Offline huntinguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 166
  • Location: Washington
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2024, 05:30:12 AM »
If you use a soft start or vfd your peak draw of your pump will be approximately the same as the FLA.

A 12v washdown pump for a boat will do 4-5gpm, enough to run 1 appliance...maybe 2 at 50-60psi. It already has a pressure switch and will turn on and off based on pressure. Max draw of 10A. With 2 100ah lead acid batteries figure 100ah of available power means a minimum of 10 hours of solid runtime but most likely more. So for $200 for a pump, some plumbing parts, a 100gal tank, and 2 deep cycle batteries, you'd probably be good for a couple days.

interesting... good information there. thank you.
in my case, I have a draw line in my cistern for the fire department... I could pull from that and bypass my main pump...

Offline Magnum_Willys

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 5555
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2024, 06:11:34 AM »
Check the pump- many of the 12V aren’t designed to have to suck from anything / need tank outlet at pump level or higher .

Offline Zardoz

  • Meme Lord
  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 30801
  • Location: Kelso, WA
  • Groups: NRA,GOA
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2024, 09:17:00 PM »
I'm looking at this from a different perspective.   :twocents:   I see it as two different things, home power and well power. The rule of 3's is always on my mind. You can last 3 minutes without oxygen, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. What are you going to do if/when you run out of fuel? Solar? Maybe, if you can afford the batteries and solar system, I can't.  Genny for the house, and a hand pump for the well. The "Simple Pump" has a solar upgrade, that I'm saving for. But with the hand pump, already installed, I can pressurize the house for my basic water needs. The solar upgrade will provide all my water needs. Just a different option to think about.  And,...don't forget about your septic system. I'm working on a hand pump system for that.  YMMV.

https://simplepump.com/
“It is the responsibility of the patriot to protect his country from its government.”—Thomas Paine

Certa Bonum Certamen
SILENCE LIKE A CANCER,...GROWS.

Offline Magnum_Willys

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 5555
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2024, 09:25:52 PM »
Best is to install a holding tank on a hill so once filled you have a week or 2 reserve if sun doesn’t come out or you run out of gas.   

Online b0bbyg

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 2883
  • Location: SW Wa
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2024, 09:58:18 PM »
All situations are a little unique, that is why I enjoy this information sharing. Get to learn other ideas and needs, if I build something new I have more options and knowledge.
We are fortunate that septic is gravity system, so buckets to flush has that covered. I do have 300 gallon container in green house that is for stabilizing temps, but also emergency flushing/washing water.

Big thing is protecting against freeze when power drops.  Battery power might get me by but genny probably cheaper. Could use batteries to run small heater in a pinch. Truck has a big inverter, but don't think big enough to power well.

Lots of options and fun to look at potential solutions. Hoping I won't need one until next winter.
In God we trust, all others bring cash.

Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
Ecclesiastes 7 10

Offline CP

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2008
  • Posts: 6853
  • Location: Mukilteo
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2024, 02:53:12 PM »
Here’s a DIY rolling power station that I put together to power tools when I’m out of range to an outlet.  And, it has kept my house partially powered during outages.

With a bigger inverter, it would run your pump.  It’s just a Harbor Freight cart with some LiFePO4 batteries, an inverter and a battery charger.  It even has head lights.  A lot cheaper than Ecoflow or similar power stations.

Online b0bbyg

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 2883
  • Location: SW Wa
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2024, 10:08:50 PM »
Here’s a DIY rolling power station that I put together to power tools when I’m out of range to an outlet.  And, it has kept my house partially powered during outages.

With a bigger inverter, it would run your pump.  It’s just a Harbor Freight cart with some LiFePO4 batteries, an inverter and a battery charger.  It even has head lights.  A lot cheaper than Ecoflow or similar power stations.

Pretty cool :tup:
In God we trust, all others bring cash.

Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
Ecclesiastes 7 10

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 15954
  • Location: Sky valley/Methow
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2024, 06:57:32 AM »
Nice setup CP
The only man who never makes a mistake, is the man who never does anything!!
The further one goes into the wilderness, the greater the attraction of its lonely freedom.

Offline elkaholic33

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 43
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2024, 08:24:32 AM »
As others have mentioned, starting a pump motor takes more power than just running the motor.

The inrush current for starting the motor can be -
6-10 times full load current for a starter (generator manufacturer's use 3-4x)
1.8-3 x for a soft start
1.4ish for a VFD.
 
Full load current on 240V motors-
3/4HP - 6.9 amps
1HP - 8 amps
1.5HP - 10 amps

Starting motors is tough on generators. 
7KW generator is 30A at 240V, 1 phase.

If you have a 1HP, deep well motor with 4x inrush, that would be 32 amps.  May not start on a 7KW generator with a starter.

This is all theory.  Anyone have practical use of a setup?  @huntinguy?

Offline CP

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2008
  • Posts: 6853
  • Location: Mukilteo
Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2024, 10:52:50 AM »
A “Soft Starter” will reduce the inrush current.  You may already have one built into your control box.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Bobcat or Lynx by Buckhunter24
[Today at 07:32:33 PM]


USFWS Director by Tbar
[Today at 07:28:17 PM]


Sportsman’s Muzzloader Selection by MADMAX
[Today at 06:48:32 PM]


Wts Hornady Precision Hunter 7prc by teanawayslayer
[Today at 06:41:18 PM]


Oregon Spring Bear.....Seed number by Sliverslinger
[Today at 06:40:28 PM]


USFS Layoffs by bigtex
[Today at 06:16:04 PM]


Lets see them Big 3 points by nwhuntinman
[Today at 06:05:33 PM]


WA Bucket List….Mule Deer Permit by actionshooter
[Today at 05:54:32 PM]


Resign? by bigtex
[Today at 05:27:10 PM]


Lake Sonoma bass by Fastass350
[Today at 05:19:12 PM]


Novagrade digiscoping adapter, absolutely awesome. by teanawayslayer
[Today at 05:07:33 PM]


Smith & Wesson 19-4 info? by Remnar
[Today at 04:07:19 PM]


Gots me a new/old rockchuck rifle coming by JDHasty
[Today at 11:28:19 AM]


Problem Bull. Problem Bull? by kodiak06
[Today at 11:10:56 AM]


Public comment periods open for Washington hunting season, wildlife feeding prop by kodiak06
[Today at 11:01:03 AM]


Don’t ruin it for everyone by teal101
[Today at 10:49:58 AM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal