End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help

[bolsen]

If the commercial nets get banned on the lower river, the natives will be here in a hurry. there is some agreement in place now that keeps them upriver but if they ban the non native nets, they will have nets all over down in the lower river.  there will be a lot of pissed off gilnetters showing them right where to go

[kentrek]

 "Do you know how much of that $424M is attributed to the salmon industry - probably a huge portion. My point being that sport fishing encompasses trout, bass, walleye, sturgeon, deep water stuff"

this is the problem with these stats, measuring econ impact between the two is a pretty complex deal..im not in favor of nets by any means but if your gona get rid of a bunch a economic rev the cost better be worth the return and thats what you gota prove 

[WSU]

If the commercial nets get banned on the lower river, the natives will be here in a hurry. there is some agreement in place now that keeps them upriver but if they ban the non native nets, they will have nets all over down in the lower river.  there will be a lot of pissed off gilnetters showing them right where to go

Who cares?  The tribes still only get 50%, so they aren't going to catch more overall.  Why does it matter if they catch their 50% below bonneville or above?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

An important message from CCA Washington:
 
We have no doubt that you have closely followed the many recent twists and turns of the collective efforts of CCA in Oregon and Washington to put an end to commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River.  CCA’s actions over the past several years, including this year’s ballot measure effort in Oregon, have been strategically focused on getting indiscriminate gillnets off of our native fish and wildlife populations forever.  Period.  CCA members across the Northwest have been critical to all of these efforts.
 

Curious why you don't spend your time, money, and effort going after the real causes of poor salmon runs on the Columbia? You know, like dams, farmers irrigating, poor ocean survival, dredging islands and Caspian terns,  pollution, etc etc.  Why go after another user group who could help you try to turn things around? Are you really naive enough to think if commercial netters go away, all the other factors are going to go away? How many wild salmon do you think were killed by commercial non native fishermen on the Columbia this year?

And what have you got against the old lady next door who likes buying inexpensive local fish? They are her fish too.

[WSU]

"Do you know how much of that $424M is attributed to the salmon industry - probably a huge portion. My point being that sport fishing encompasses trout, bass, walleye, sturgeon, deep water stuff"

this is the problem with these stats, measuring econ impact between the two is a pretty complex deal..im not in favor of nets by any means but if your gona get rid of a bunch a economic rev the cost better be worth the return and thats what you gota prove 

The problem isn't with the stats, but rather the fact that you didn't read the stats.  Salmon accounted for 28% of the economic value generated by sportfishing in the study (second to trout, which was 31%).  It also breaks down the value of commercial caught salmon and the areas where it is caught.  Read for yourself, but it all adds up to sportfishing being far more valuable to our state's economy than commercial fishing (this is specific to salmon, and is not necessarily my position regarding other fisheries).

[pianoman9701]

You guys are missing a very important point on all this about the salmon.

The Natives are now taking over the Hatcheries, one at a time.  They will control the fish, so they will control the fishery.  Mark my words, it will happen.  They could care less about sportfishermen, or commercial fishermen.   Just how much salmon THEY can net...  I have been fishing at Drano, while the Natives sit and drink beer and laugh and make jokes about the stupid white man, having to use a line and a hook to catch a fish...  later they get to put their nets into an enclosed area, and catch everything that swims... 

I heard one native bragging he makes about 5K a night netting at Drano during the Springer season...   

So it IS all about the money... HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT RITUALS, OR FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES.....  It is all about the money, plain and simple...

HB, this is a too broad sweep of the pen. Last year, the DFW announced that a budget shortfall would necessitate the elimination of a million smoults of coho from a hatchery on the Ho. The Quinaults stepped up with $10K to keep the hatchery open at full capacity, remaining under the direction of the state. The are other instances of where this tribe and others are shown to be good stewards of our resources without ulterior motives.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

The problem isn't with the stats, but rather the fact that you didn't read the stats.  Salmon accounted for 28% of the economic value generated by sportfishing in the study (second to trout, which was 31%).  It also breaks down the value of commercial caught salmon and the areas where it is caught.  Read for yourself, but it all adds up to sportfishing being far more valuable to our state's economy than commercial fishing (this is specific to salmon, and is not necessarily my position regarding other fisheries).

Studies like you tout are worthless and slanted. On the commercial side, only the grounds price is considered as to the value of a fish taken. On the sport side, boats and their upkeep and mooring, fishing tackle, gas, travel, meals out, rain gear, and everything you can think of is included in the fishey's value.

You need to throw in all the facets of commercial fishing to get a true comparison. Boats and upkeep/moorage, nets, misc gear, rain gear fuel, wages to cannery workers, packaging, shipping, the value of the canneries themselves and all the equipment in them, wages paid in fish markets where finished product is sold, etc etc etc.

In other words, compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

I could use your figures and say sport fishing is a waste of resources, and is too costly to society. Just think of how many gallons of petroleum products are used per lb. of fish produced.

[buckhorn2]

Everyone has an opinion but none a real solution. Since people have netted the columbia since we first discovered it do you really think it;s right to just ban netting. Those netting families have been on the columbia before a sportsman ever heard of bouy ten or in the willipa there were never any sportsfishermen there until they put the best kept secret in washington and seattle showed up and now everyone wants the people who live there and make there livelely hood to just stop so you can have more.  I am a sportsfisherman and I have a boat and moorage and poles and reels and a toy hauler so I can bounce around but I don;t want to take anyones livelehood away so I can do it more. My solution is a stewide Buyout just like they did for the draggers and it worked. It worked in canada why can;t we instead of just stopping all netting just use some of the money you say we all put into it and start a buyback program. There is a moritorium on gillnetting there are no more license sold by the state the only way to get one is to buy one out from a license holder. With all the money we claim to generate why can;t we help this fisherman with a way out that pays them for there business. Just my opinion on a way out that might work.

[Huntbear]

You guys are missing a very important point on all this about the salmon.

The Natives are now taking over the Hatcheries, one at a time.  They will control the fish, so they will control the fishery.  Mark my words, it will happen.  They could care less about sportfishermen, or commercial fishermen.   Just how much salmon THEY can net...  I have been fishing at Drano, while the Natives sit and drink beer and laugh and make jokes about the stupid white man, having to use a line and a hook to catch a fish...  later they get to put their nets into an enclosed area, and catch everything that swims... 

I heard one native bragging he makes about 5K a night netting at Drano during the Springer season...   

So it IS all about the money... HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT RITUALS, OR FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES.....  It is all about the money, plain and simple...

HB, this is a too broad sweep of the pen. Last year, the DFW announced that a budget shortfall would necessitate the elimination of a million smoults of coho from a hatchery on the Ho. The Quinaults stepped up with $10K to keep the hatchery open at full capacity, remaining under the direction of the state. The are other instances of where this tribe and others are shown to be good stewards of our resources without ulterior motives.

I have to disagree... NOT 1 Native tribe gave a rats ass about the salmon recovery issues, till they found money in it..  then even tribes that NEVER used salmon as a mainstay in their historic diet demanded their fair share..  It is all part of the history of the salmon, if you study it..  and unfortunately very very true. 

[WSU]

Everyone has an opinion but none a real solution. Since people have netted the columbia since we first discovered it do you really think it;s right to just ban netting. Those netting families have been on the columbia before a sportsman ever heard of bouy ten or in the willipa there were never any sportsfishermen there until they put the best kept secret in washington and seattle showed up and now everyone wants the people who live there and make there livelely hood to just stop so you can have more.  I am a sportsfisherman and I have a boat and moorage and poles and reels and a toy hauler so I can bounce around but I don;t want to take anyones livelehood away so I can do it more. My solution is a stewide Buyout just like they did for the draggers and it worked. It worked in canada why can;t we instead of just stopping all netting just use some of the money you say we all put into it and start a buyback program. There is a moritorium on gillnetting there are no more license sold by the state the only way to get one is to buy one out from a license holder. With all the money we claim to generate why can;t we help this fisherman with a way out that pays them for there business. Just my opinion on a way out that might work.

I certainly don't oppose buying people out and would whole-heartedly support such a proposal if done in a workable fashion. 

But, I don't think that fact that a netter's grandpa may have been a netter gives them any more right to the fish our taxes pay for.  If my grandpa was a slumlord should I get to continue the tradition?  What about buffalo hunter?  What about slave owner?  Asbestos producer?  The list of industries that outlived their usefulness is long, and commercial fishing (for salmon in Washington, which is the only fishery I am talking about) is one of them.  It is only slightly better than welfare to pay millions of dollars to raise fish so a couple hundred netters can make a few thousand bucks.  It is a waste of money that could be better spent and should be giving our economy a much bigger bang for our buck.

[pianoman9701]

You guys are missing a very important point on all this about the salmon.

The Natives are now taking over the Hatcheries, one at a time.  They will control the fish, so they will control the fishery.  Mark my words, it will happen.  They could care less about sportfishermen, or commercial fishermen.   Just how much salmon THEY can net...  I have been fishing at Drano, while the Natives sit and drink beer and laugh and make jokes about the stupid white man, having to use a line and a hook to catch a fish...  later they get to put their nets into an enclosed area, and catch everything that swims... 

I heard one native bragging he makes about 5K a night netting at Drano during the Springer season...   

So it IS all about the money... HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT RITUALS, OR FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES.....  It is all about the money, plain and simple...

HB, this is a too broad sweep of the pen. Last year, the DFW announced that a budget shortfall would necessitate the elimination of a million smoults of coho from a hatchery on the Ho. The Quinaults stepped up with $10K to keep the hatchery open at full capacity, remaining under the direction of the state. The are other instances of where this tribe and others are shown to be good stewards of our resources without ulterior motives.

I have to disagree... NOT 1 Native tribe gave a rats ass about the salmon recovery issues, till they found money in it..  then even tribes that NEVER used salmon as a mainstay in their historic diet demanded their fair share..  It is all part of the history of the salmon, if you study it..  and unfortunately very very true.

I didn't say it wasn't in their best interest, HB. I only said that they are good stewards of their resource. All of us do what we do selfishly. I work with RMEF and DFW to make sure I have plenty of animals to kill. They've been fishing the Ho and the Quinault River and have been either trading or selling their fish for centuries. They know how to do it and it's perfectly sustainable. Doing what they do for a profit has been going on here long before your or my ancestors ever landed on the east coast. Is their profit somehow now a crime just because we're here and decide they take too much and we want more?

I don't know if the same can be said for the non-Native commercial guys on the Columbia, which is truly what this thread is all about anyway. That video with the abandoned nets indicates to me that they're less a steward of their resource than they are solely opportunists. I would suggest that many of us could take away lessons learned from the Quinaults and the Quileutes. Just my 

[buckhorn2]

What Huntbear said if theres money in it the tribes will do it. They saw money in crasbbibg-halibut fishing-blackcod fishing and dove right in. Where I live the 50 per cent thing is pure *censored* when 25 indians get half the crab when there are 230 non indian crabers that have to give them a 45 day head start so they can make sure to get there share. To bad the 50-50 does;nt work on the Clockum.

[Huntbear]

You guys are missing a very important point on all this about the salmon.

The Natives are now taking over the Hatcheries, one at a time.  They will control the fish, so they will control the fishery.  Mark my words, it will happen.  They could care less about sportfishermen, or commercial fishermen.   Just how much salmon THEY can net...  I have been fishing at Drano, while the Natives sit and drink beer and laugh and make jokes about the stupid white man, having to use a line and a hook to catch a fish...  later they get to put their nets into an enclosed area, and catch everything that swims... 

I heard one native bragging he makes about 5K a night netting at Drano during the Springer season...   

So it IS all about the money... HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT RITUALS, OR FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES.....  It is all about the money, plain and simple...

HB, this is a too broad sweep of the pen. Last year, the DFW announced that a budget shortfall would necessitate the elimination of a million smoults of coho from a hatchery on the Ho. The Quinaults stepped up with $10K to keep the hatchery open at full capacity, remaining under the direction of the state. The are other instances of where this tribe and others are shown to be good stewards of our resources without ulterior motives.

I have to disagree... NOT 1 Native tribe gave a rats ass about the salmon recovery issues, till they found money in it..  then even tribes that NEVER used salmon as a mainstay in their historic diet demanded their fair share..  It is all part of the history of the salmon, if you study it..  and unfortunately very very true.

I didn't say it wasn't in their best interest, HB. I only said that they are good stewards of their resource. All of us do what we do selfishly. I work with RMEF and DFW to make sure I have plenty of animals to kill. They've been fishing the Ho and the Quinault River and have been either trading or selling their fish for centuries. They know how to do it and it's perfectly sustainable. Doing what they do for a profit has been going on here long before your or my ancestors ever landed on the east coast. Is their profit somehow now a crime just because we're here and decide they take too much and we want more?

I don't know if the same can be said for the non-Native commercial guys on the Columbia, which is truly what this thread is all about anyway. That video with the abandoned nets indicates to me that they're less a steward of their resource than they are solely opportunists. I would suggest that many of us could take away lessons learned from the Quinaults and the Quileutes. Just my 

Good Stewards?  Obviously you have never seen a net pulled in with 50-75 ROTTING salmon in it, because the native dropped his net, and went and got drunk and left it for 4 or 5 days, not overnight....   that is real good stewardship there..

[jackmaster]

this is turning into something that it shouldnt, and since it is i will add my 2 cents on this part.....round eyes DO NOT net the puyallup but i know who does and its disgusting, makes me friggin sick to see what is being done there, if you saw it piannoman i have NOOOOO DOUBT, that you would be disgusted as well..... we are off thread by a long shot now.....

[Huntbear]

Yes, this thread is about commercial fishing... that said, why should they be banned, if the other nets in the river will just get the fish ??   

IF we are not going to ban ALL gill netting, then there is not one shred of a good idea here...