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Author Topic: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013  (Read 41920 times)

Offline huntnphool

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2013, 12:46:09 AM »
The problem will be getting WDFW to identify 18 BP's or the decline in big game herds.  :bash:
And there in lies the problem, actually believing what they say about the numbers.

In some cases I think they are just naive and lack experience, in other cases I am convinced some of their personnel are purposefully hiding wolves from the count.
Or perhaps a little of both. I would add egotistical as well, I mean how can they sit through all the testimony and documentation from other states dealing with wolves and believe that they will actually get a different result without it coming down to ego?

Its a shame too because I have met some good people in the dept. and they don't deserve to be lumped in with the ones that are making these asinine decisions.
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Offline Curly

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2013, 07:24:37 AM »
Wait to bash the game department until their management plan is deemed a total failure. Kinda hard to judge them, when the wolf management plan goals have not even been completed yet. Just saying; give the program a chance to become the program it is suppose to be, and give the WDFW a chance to show us that they don't know or do know what they are doing. Many will bash the WDFW regardless of what the outcome is, so what does it matter....

Wait to bash them?  The wolf plan was a complete failure the day it went into effect.  The time to bash them is now.  They really screwed up and they are starting to see that (hopefully).
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Offline bobcat

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2013, 07:31:25 AM »
Wait to bash the game department until their management plan is deemed a total failure. Kinda hard to judge them, when the wolf management plan goals have not even been completed yet. Just saying; give the program a chance to become the program it is suppose to be, and give the WDFW a chance to show us that they don't know or do know what they are doing. Many will bash the WDFW regardless of what the outcome is, so what does it matter....

Wait to bash them?  The wolf plan was a complete failure the day it went into effect.  The time to bash them is now.  They really screwed up and they are starting to see that (hopefully).

How did they screw up and what is it they are seeing now that will make them realize they screwed up? Is it because a dog got attacked? Or because some cattle were eaten by wolves? Or that wolves are killing deer and elk?

Sure these things are happening- it's what wolves do, and I don't think the WDFW ever said, or thought, that these things wouldn't happen. I've said this before, but we'd be seeing these exact same things happening if they had never written the wolf plan. If the WDFW didn't exist, we'd still have wolves, and they'd still be doing what wolves do.

Offline Elkaholic daWg

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #78 on: March 21, 2013, 07:51:02 AM »
Wait to bash the game department until their management plan is deemed a total failure. Kinda hard to judge them, when the wolf management plan goals have not even been completed yet. Just saying; give the program a chance to become the program it is suppose to be, and give the WDFW a chance to show us that they don't know or do know what they are doing. Many will bash the WDFW regardless of what the outcome is, so what does it matter....

Wait to bash them?  The wolf plan was a complete failure the day it went into effect.  The time to bash them is now.  They really screwed up and they are starting to see that (hopefully).

How did they screw up and what is it they are seeing now that will make them realize they screwed up? Is it because a dog got attacked? Or because some cattle were eaten by wolves? Or that wolves are killing deer and elk?

Sure these things are happening- it's what wolves do, and I don't think the WDFW ever said, or thought, that these things wouldn't happen. I've said this before, but we'd be seeing these exact same things happening if they had never written the wolf plan. If the WDFW didn't exist, we'd still have wolves, and they'd still be doing what wolves do.


 Back at Ya Bobcat...Just What have they done right??  Since all your opinions on them (DFW) seem to indicate they (DFW) are family to you. Do you work for them?
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #79 on: March 21, 2013, 08:02:01 AM »
Wait to bash the game department until their management plan is deemed a total failure. Kinda hard to judge them, when the wolf management plan goals have not even been completed yet. Just saying; give the program a chance to become the program it is suppose to be, and give the WDFW a chance to show us that they don't know or do know what they are doing. Many will bash the WDFW regardless of what the outcome is, so what does it matter....

Wait to bash them?  The wolf plan was a complete failure the day it went into effect.  The time to bash them is now.  They really screwed up and they are starting to see that (hopefully).

How did they screw up and what is it they are seeing now that will make them realize they screwed up? Is it because a dog got attacked? Or because some cattle were eaten by wolves? Or that wolves are killing deer and elk?

Sure these things are happening- it's what wolves do, and I don't think the WDFW ever said, or thought, that these things wouldn't happen. I've said this before, but we'd be seeing these exact same things happening if they had never written the wolf plan. If the WDFW didn't exist, we'd still have wolves, and they'd still be doing what wolves do.

There's an enormous difference between managing wolves and managing wolves while keeping the public in the dark, which is what I believe is happening. How is it that they expect the expenses for the program to triple this year and yet are only acknowledging an increase of a few packs? Are the existing packs tripling in population or are the number of packs tripling and we're not being kept in the loop?

It's one thing to understand that their job managing wolves is not an easy one. It's another altogether to ignore the fact that they were told this was coming, it has come, and they're up to the butts in wolves without knowing how to handle it.
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Offline Curly

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #80 on: March 21, 2013, 10:01:16 AM »
But, I don't think it's right to criticize the WDFW, as they are only doing what they are required to do by law.

They could have delisted wolves in the eastern 1/3 of the state according to the Feds.  They chose not to.  How is that "only doing what they are required to do by law" ? :dunno:

I don't like WDFW caving to the wolf loving crowd (and obviously the predator lovers within WDFW too); they should have used data available from ID, MT, and WY.  Instead they listened to pro wolf people who only care about wolves.  They should not be managing wildlife by public opinion................(unless that opinion is from hunters). ;)  :chuckle:
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #81 on: March 21, 2013, 10:06:43 AM »
Wait to bash the game department until their management plan is deemed a total failure. Kinda hard to judge them, when the wolf management plan goals have not even been completed yet. Just saying; give the program a chance to become the program it is suppose to be, and give the WDFW a chance to show us that they don't know or do know what they are doing. Many will bash the WDFW regardless of what the outcome is, so what does it matter....

Wait to bash them?  The wolf plan was a complete failure the day it went into effect.  The time to bash them is now.  They really screwed up and they are starting to see that (hopefully).

How did they screw up and what is it they are seeing now that will make them realize they screwed up? Is it because a dog got attacked? Or because some cattle were eaten by wolves? Or that wolves are killing deer and elk?

Sure these things are happening- it's what wolves do, and I don't think the WDFW ever said, or thought, that these things wouldn't happen.
Yes they did say it Bob, I was sitting there in the meetings when they did..........taking notes!!!

How about the fact that their numbers have doubled years before their "science" estimates, or the fact that they sat there and said they do not anticipate a ungulate predation problem, yet they are now calling for a meeting because there is!!!!!! Just to name a couple.

I understand you like to play devils advocate Bob but you need to get your facts strait before you spout off in defense of the wolf issue.
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Offline inchtowntracking

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #82 on: March 21, 2013, 10:22:58 AM »
I don't think that bobcat will understand how us eastsiders feel or what we are going through until the wolves affect his hunting areas. The eastside needs different rules then the west side, before it really gets out of control.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #83 on: March 21, 2013, 10:28:00 AM »
I don't think that bobcat will understand how us eastsiders feel or what we are going through until the wolves affect his hunting areas. The eastside needs different rules then the west side, before it really gets out of control.
Funny how he hunts a month during deer season on the wet side too, yet he is the first one chiming in opposed to giving us back a few of our east side deer days back. :chuckle:
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Offline Gringo31

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #84 on: March 21, 2013, 12:42:37 PM »
I hear Bobcat saying the same thing I heard from WDFW in the wolf meetings I went to.


It went something like this. 

We are on the same team!  We want to manage wolves as well, so lets just hurry up and get the 15 BP or approx 250-300 wolves in the state so that then we can manage them.

 :yike:  This is the logic....and one that doesn't add up in my head.  Let's hold off on management until the issue is a real big problem so that we can then pat ourselves on the back.  Oh, and yes, Washington will be much different than Idaho because we just think so.

Stupid data....gets in the way.
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Offline skywalker253

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2013, 06:39:35 PM »
Skywalker & Bobcat I asked this of WDFW on there FB page and that is, Why do you think that WDFW knows so much more than Idaho, Montana and Wyoming does now that they all have stated that hunting alone will not be able to control wolf populations. Idaho started with 15 introduced wolves in '95 and '98 (I may be wrong on second year) by 2010 they had well over 1000 and said now that wolves are directly responsible for a 20% reduction in elk numbers where wolves are present. Please explain how WDFW knows how they can control them when no one else does.

All I ever said was IMO I feel hunters will be provided the privledge to hunt them at some point. Whether that be a few years from now or 20 years from now; I don't know. If I had it my way, then all wolves would already be dead. I don't want them in Wa...period! But since they are being forced upon us, I said give them a chance to settle in and populate. Give the WDFW a chance to prove their plan works or DOES NOT work. In other words; I am not saying I agree or disagree with their plan. I am not a wolf expert and neither is anybody else on this site. Just saying; let the quote EXPERTS be experts and see how it turns out. If it is a total failure then feel free to bash the WDFW, as it is justified. If they do a good job and their plan is a success, then give them credit where credit is due. Many will bash the WDFW regardless of WHAT the outcome is.

Offline skywalker253

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2013, 06:52:39 PM »
Of course the wolf lovers want wolves, just as long as they can put them on the eastside and not have to live with them themselves, that has been proven by Rep. Kretz.

I suppose it's sort of tough for some to justify a wolf hunt when they aren't killing your cattle or pets and you haven't seen what happens to big game herds. We're not asking for wolf management on the westside so you can rest in peace, we only want to protect our pets and livestock where the wolves are eating them.

To be fair; isn't the eastside where the prime hunting ground is located (generally speaking). I don't care, which side of the mountains they live. But common sense would tell me, that is where they should live. Perhaps the Olympic Pennisula, St. Helens, Nooksack, and the Willipa Hills would make some sense as living quarters on the westside. But with hoof rott becoming a major concern; I don't think we need 2 major killers of our elk herds on this side. Perhaps down the road when they get this hoof rott issue figured out.

Offline skywalker253

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2013, 06:59:11 PM »
My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas. Waiting 5-10 years to start hunting like stated above and most deer hunting in this state on the east side will be very limited at best. :twocents:

I never suggested waiting 5-10 years to hunt them. I said IMO we WILL be able to hunt them in the next 5-10 years. Who knows? Maybe a year from now we can? It is all opinions and speculations at this point.

I agree that there are more wolves then the game department is letting us know about, but until we actually KNOW the TRUE wolf population in Wa and the specific regions; how can you organize a hunt and issue the proper number of tags? I would not mind seeing a wolf hunt in NE WA next year. That region seems to be the most prevalent with wolves. After what happened up there last year; I don't see the game department working with the FEDS to delist them up there anytime soon. They clearly want to be the managers of wolves in WA at this point.

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2013, 07:04:48 PM »
Its nice that we have to pay for the introduction then the cost of managing them. It's not like the state is going to generate any future funds if or when they become delisted to offset the management costs. Better just to get the state to use some of their property fence it in then bring some wolves in and let the huggers pay to view them. Be cheaper in the long run.
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Offline skywalker253

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Re: wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2013, 07:05:40 PM »
Quote from: link=topic=121197.msg1599775#msg1599775 date=1363843085
All I am saying is IMO in the next 5-10 years we will have a special permit hunt, which will be broke up by wolf region.
The reason I said you were too optimistic is according to the proposal they need to be stable at the 15 BP number for three years once they reach that requirement. At that point they will begin the discussion of hunting them, likely taking another year or two, or perhaps waiting until the following three year big game season setting meeting.

After all this stalling they will publically announce their hunting proposal meeting, to be held a couple months later in the year so they can adequately plan for it. The meeting will be filled with wolf advocates from all the popular groups, all speaking opposed to any kind of hunting.

Finally the season for hunting wolves will be set, likely 10+ years from now. Then just when you thought it would finally happen, the wolf groups will file law suits to stop it, which WDFW will have to abide by until litigation is complete, likely several more years down the road.

This is exactly what has happened in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, and like I asked you earlier, what makes you think Washington will be any different? By the way, WDFW couldn't answer this question from the commission either. ;)

In total, I don't see a hunt for wolves in Washington for at least 15 years, and thats assuming WDFW doesn't pull the trump card 2.5 years into the 3 year waiting period of wolves maintaining the 15 BP's, saying "one of the alpha males is missing and pressumed dead so we are no longer at 15BP's" at which point the 3 year "stable" period would have to start over.

Like I said...
IMO- Their will be some sort of hunt in the next 5-10 years. I also said whether its a few years or 20 years I don't know and I don't care. Just saying I think hunters will get the privledge to hunt them at some point. Nothing more...
I am not a wolf expert, so that is why I make an opinion statement based of what I THINK will eventually happen. NOT what ID, MT, the wolf plan, etc. says should or will happen. I have 20 years to prove to you that hunters will be able to hunt them at some point. So start counting...

 


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