wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013

[skywalker253]

My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas. Waiting 5-10 years to start hunting like stated above and most deer hunting in this state on the east side will be very limited at best.

I said IMO we WILL be able to hunt them in the next 5-10 years. Who knows? Maybe a year from now we can? It is all opinions and speculations at this point.

Just a FYI in case you didn't know, Idaho has been battling delisting wolf hunts in courts since 2002.

Right...
But I am only talking about Wa. We have not delisted them here. Good for Idaho.

[huntnphool]

My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas. Waiting 5-10 years to start hunting like stated above and most deer hunting in this state on the east side will be very limited at best.

I said IMO we WILL be able to hunt them in the next 5-10 years. Who knows? Maybe a year from now we can? It is all opinions and speculations at this point.

Just a FYI in case you didn't know, Idaho has been battling delisting wolf hunts in courts since 2002.

Right...
But I am only talking about Wa. We have not delisted them here. Good for Idaho.

Yeah, I figured it would be a stretch for you to understand the correlation, but I gave it a shot.

[skywalker253]

My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas. Waiting 5-10 years to start hunting like stated above and most deer hunting in this state on the east side will be very limited at best.

I said IMO we WILL be able to hunt them in the next 5-10 years. Who knows? Maybe a year from now we can? It is all opinions and speculations at this point.

Just a FYI in case you didn't know, Idaho has been battling delisting wolf hunts in courts since 2002.

Right...
But I am only talking about Wa. We have not delisted them here. Good for Idaho.

Yeah, I figured it would be a stretch for you to understand the correlation, but I gave it a shot.

You like to ask questions to the hunt-wa members, which only you have answers to. Even when we have the answer, you find a way to tear apart are posts and tell us how much more you know. This is the REPUTATION you created for yourself. Nobody likes a know it all. I am sure I am disliked by many on here, because I tend to play devils advocate. Or I just tell it like it is. The difference is; I always respect another members opinion and I tend to be open minded to changing my opinion, once I have read another members post. Remember your know it all attitude follows you to all those meetings and sportmans shows you attend. Thou you might think you have friends in those places; they will be the first ones to talk crap behind your back, because they know your a know it all. People tend to blow people like that off and push them aside. Go spew your useless garbage somewhere else. Nobody cares about your statistics and all your WDFW meetings feedback. The only thing I have read from you, which was of value is your name "PHOOL". That what you are. 

[huntnphool]

I said IMO we WILL be able to hunt them in the next 5-10 years. Who knows? Maybe a year from now we can? It is all opinions and speculations at this point.

Just a FYI in case you didn't know, Idaho has been battling delisting wolf hunts in courts since 2002.

Right...
But I am only talking about Wa. We have not delisted them here. Good for Idaho.

Yeah, I figured it would be a stretch for you to understand the correlation, but I gave it a shot.

You like to ask questions to the hunt-wa members, which only you have answers to. Even when we have the answer, you find a way to tear apart are posts and tell us how much more you know. This is the REPUTATION you created for yourself. Nobody likes a know it all. I am sure I am disliked by many on here, because I tend to play devils advocate. Or I just tell it like it is. The difference is; I always respect another members opinion and I tend to be open minded to changing my opinion, once I have read another members post. Remember your know it all attitude follows you to all those meetings and sportmans shows you attend. Thou you might think you have friends in those places; they will be the first ones to talk crap behind your back, because they know your a know it all. People tend to blow people like that off and push them aside. Go spew your useless garbage somewhere else. Nobody cares about your statistics and all your WDFW meetings feedback. The only thing I have read from you, which was of value is your name "PHOOL". That what you are. 

 

[Special T]

The quickest way to size some one up is to ask a question you already know the answer to.  
This place is a GREAT place to share facts because if it concerns sportsmen we need to know them, and hold our the WDFW accountable for thier (in)actions.

[JLS]

My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas. Waiting 5-10 years to start hunting like stated above and most deer hunting in this state on the east side will be very limited at best.

I said IMO we WILL be able to hunt them in the next 5-10 years. Who knows? Maybe a year from now we can? It is all opinions and speculations at this point.

Just a FYI in case you didn't know, Idaho has been battling delisting wolf hunts in courts since 2002.

Which likely won't mean much at all in the way of predicting WA efforts to establish wolf hunts.  WA can now rely on data from MT, ID, and WY to show that wolf populations can withstand a reasonably high degree of hunting without adverse effects on populations segments.

Our biggest fear should not be the courts, but rather the ballot box.

[Curly]

 

Won't be long after delisting occurs that an initiative is voted on to eliminate hunting of wolves......

[denali]

  and if we finally do win the court battle and hunt wolves, we will never be able to trap and 1/2 of the wolves removed in ID and MT were trapped.

[bigtex]

Why the WDFW hate? Well they COULD have started hunting /MGT  E of the columbia several years ago when the FEDS delisted the rockey mountain region.

Not really true. In order for hunting season to open on wolves the state legislature has to clasiffy them as a Big Game animal, they are currently classified as a endagered species under state law. WDFW actually pushed for that classification change this year in their wolf bill but it was removed by the state senate.

[huntnphool]

My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas. Waiting 5-10 years to start hunting like stated above and most deer hunting in this state on the east side will be very limited at best.

I said IMO we WILL be able to hunt them in the next 5-10 years. Who knows? Maybe a year from now we can? It is all opinions and speculations at this point.

Just a FYI in case you didn't know, Idaho has been battling delisting wolf hunts in courts since 2002.

Which likely won't mean much at all in the way of predicting WA efforts to establish wolf hunts.  WA can now rely on data from MT, ID, and WY to show that wolf populations can withstand a reasonably high degree of hunting without adverse effects on populations segments.

Our biggest fear should not be the courts, but rather the ballot box.

I agree the low information voter is the biggest threat, but don't forget that Washington had data from MT, ID and Wyoming in the proposal meetings that was completely ignored, what gives you the confidence it will be considered this time around?

[Northway]

My cousin married Bucky Manke from Manke. He always told us that logging slowed in the late 80's because the Japanese market slowed purchasing logs. Apparently they were purchasing logs and burying them underground to preserve them. Once they got their share, things began to slow. I know zero about this topic. Can any of the EXPERTS (and trust me, there is plenty on Hunt-Wa) catch me up on why specifically logging slowed down.

Almost everyone else in my family worked in logging or lumber mills. The US economy hasn't helped, but, there is a big lumber market in Japan due to the sunami. In spite of the spotted owl affair logging is still very active on private and state lands. The problem is that the National Forest has practically stopped logging, mills could not get logs and many had to close. I am sure there are other factors depending on which mill or area, but the NFS really put a hurt on logging in my area.

Recently I've felt that timber cut on public lands should have to be processed locally. In the past, I think there was too shipping of raw logs to foreign markets which mostly only benefits the short-term profit objectives of large timber companies as opposed to small outfits and local economies.

If you look at statistics from the 1980's, the number of board feet cut in the west was increasing most years, while the actual number of timber related jobs decreased throughout the entire decade. I've never had anyone truly explain that phenomenon to me other than by attributing it to better technology and the incrased export of raw, unprocessed timber.

I've also wondered how much longer a lot of the mills that specialized in processing old-growth national forest timber would have lasted without the spotted owl. I've spent a lot of time traveling through forests in western WA, and I really don't see many large stands of true old-growth that are left outside of National Parks or buffer zones. I mean there's some, but enough to sustain that segment of the industry the way it was for more than another few years?

It's true that "environmentalists" have played a huge role in augmenting the timber industry, but I don't know if folks really hold any of the large timber companies accountable for the role they played in the whole boom and bust cycles that have damaged a number of rural economies over the years.  I guess it's really water under the bridge at this point........

[Special T]

Why the WDFW hate? Well they COULD have started hunting /MGT  E of the columbia several years ago when the FEDS delisted the rockey mountain region.

Not really true. In order for hunting season to open on wolves the state legislature has to clasiffy them as a Big Game animal, they are currently classified as a endagered species under state law. WDFW actually pushed for that classification change this year in their wolf bill but it was removed by the state senate.

The lack of "big game" classification was a self imposed one. I see a bunch of politicains and an agency (WDFW) that is either indefferent or helping push this nonsence.

[dirtbike45]

Why is that WDFW is trying to reinvent the wheel . They must know more than Id,Mt,Wy. What we have learned that there is 2 kinds of biology . Two may liberals have infiltrated  all game departments. Oh sorry Wildlife departments. Do you know how they get rid of someone who doesn't fit in a government office . They promote them to a different department. Does any body here live with these flea bags. We have  lived in the Teanaway for 15 years. I have more deer and elk at my little 5 areas in last 3 years than ever before, not because of population spikes. They have alot better chance of living on the out skirts of town/rural areas. There are so few game animals left in the higher hills now.  So there will be more landowner /wildlife conflicts resulting in landowner tags. Do you know what it is like to have wolves tracks on your property that you have small children and pets on. When there is 3 ft of snow on the ground in the winter where is all the wildlife. In all the low lands that is almost all privately owned property. I am so done with all this wolf crap. I got drawn in 2011 for a teanaway late bow tag. It snowed multiple  days in a row , riding a snow machine to try and cut tracks. I covered 45 miles in two days. I counted a minimum of 12 different fresh tracks in the snow. That's at least  200 deer or elk a year. How many deer and elk get harvested in the Teanaway unit in the last three years? We no longer have to worry about coyotes now, they are no longer around. Just a  1/2 mile from the house 2 weeks ago a lab was skinned and beheaded in a matter of minutes. Owner heard distress and ran out and found dog. WDFW investigate , say it was coyotes. Come on really. There have been numerous sighting of the flea bags in the area in the last month. WDFW lying again . Sorry to rant.  But people or hunters that want to coexist with wolves DONT LIVE WITH THEM. If you think its OK  , I invite you to bring your children or grandchildren over and we will send them up the hills to play , like many of us grew up doing. Not.  I cant even let my kids play on the swing set alone. Sorry there is not millions of acres of land like there used to be hundreds of years ago. If they where a classified as a predator today , we would still have serious problems in a couple of years. Paying WDFW contractors big money to remove them, once they are too big of problems. Canada and Alaska laugh at us. If you would like to watch a real documentary of wolves , watch Crying wolf documentary. We need to stand together and fight these people or organizations. WDFW is to political already. Which in turn means lies.

[snowpack]

I've heard what you mention before dirtbike.  About how all the game get pushed closer and closer to cities and towns.  In many cases it has made for higher hunter harvest numbers in the early years.  But the wilderness areas are void of game.  I had read that the bios like to use old correlations of harvest compared to population surveys, and they extrapolate that there are bigger herds than ever.  But it is actually just the wolves pushing the game to the humans, so the herds keep getting smaller.  There were some newspaper articles about how hunters in ID and MT were having the best seasons on record even with the wolves, and that wolves were making all wildlife 'flourish'.  Then some independent or retired bio was looking into the conflicting accounts and was saying their data was wrong.  Basically he found overall numbers were way down, but animals were more accessible so it made hunting a little easier.  And with decreased herds and increased harvest, the herds were not being sustainably managed.

[AspenBud]

My cousin married Bucky Manke from Manke. He always told us that logging slowed in the late 80's because the Japanese market slowed purchasing logs. Apparently they were purchasing logs and burying them underground to preserve them. Once they got their share, things began to slow. I know zero about this topic. Can any of the EXPERTS (and trust me, there is plenty on Hunt-Wa) catch me up on why specifically logging slowed down.

Three words. The Sierra Club.

Contact the Ruffed Grouse Society for details on how anti logging policies actually hurt game animal numbers.