The “Naturally Migrating” GI Wolves

[mountainman]

Sounding like a lady we all know, who also said" What does it matter now?"...

[idahohuntr]

Sounding like a lady we all know, who also said" What does it matter now?"...

I don't really care where the wolves came from at this point, they are here.

[bobcat]

I saw three wolves in the Chiwawa unit in 1990. So, they've been here a while.

[wolfbait]

Sounding like a lady we all know, who also said" What does it matter now?"...

I don't really care where the wolves came from at this point, they are here.

I think it matters where the wolves came from and how they got to WA. Then the question to WDFW is why you did not confirm these wolves as you released and monitored them? Why did you lie and say they came from three different places? Why didn't you delist years ago and why didn't you respond to reported wolf sightings from people when you knew all along they were seeing wolves? Why did you release wolves in WA after seeing what has happened in ID, MT and Wyoming? These are all questions that WDFW will have to answer at some point in time in the future, why not come clean before their fat is in the fire.

[wolfbait]

I saw three wolves in the Chiwawa unit in 1990. So, they've been here a while.

We saw wolves in the Methow Valley in the early 90's, we were told by the USFS to keep it hushed as they were planted wolves.

Remember the USFWS, WDFW, and DoW wolf push of the 1980's and 90's?.

 In Washington, Feds Opt For Wolf Introduction Over Recovery

Yesterday we learned there were 6 packs of wolves living in Washington’s Cascade area prior to 1991 and that the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife fails to inform Washington citizens of this fact while debating the recent plans for wolf management.

Apparently, this common knowledge of the existence of wolves in at least the Cascades and Olympic Peninsula, had been swept under the rug all as part of an effort to promote introduction of gray wolves from Canada rather than spend what little money was available on recovery efforts. From the Seattle Times, 1997:

Biologists say gray wolves, migrating from Canada, have begun to repopulate the Cascades in small numbers during the past decade. But in 1994, the Fish and Wildlife Service cut the roughly $200,000 being spent annually on recovery efforts for wolves and grizzly bears in the North Cascades, diverting the money to programs in Idaho.

This link provides more information about wolves in the Cascades region of Washington.

With evidence that has been around for some time and denied by most wolf advocates, it appears that even though many felt dollars and effort should be put into recovery of the wolves that were known to roam parts of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming and Washington, but instead all efforts were abandoned in favor of introduction. From the Seattle Times, 1991:

For the past decade, gray wolves have been gradually making their way south from Canada, extending their range down the spine of the Rocky Mountains, and are now living in several Western states from which they were exterminated half a century ago.

An estimated 40 to 50 wolves now live in Montana, with smaller numbers in Idaho and perhaps even some in Wyoming.

In April of 1992, the Seattle Times once again reports of meetings scheduled in communities to discuss the USFWS’s plans for Canadian Gray Wolf introductions into the Yellowstone region. All part of the efforts to create an Environmental Impact Statement. The Times reported that Washington residents should be concerned about this effort as it could become a model of how the state should recover gray wolves already living in that state.

Why should Seattleites care? Aside from being a controversial topic expected to draw comments from friends and foes of the wolf nationwide, the Yellowstone EIS could serve as a model for a plan to manage wolves that are rehabitating Washington state.

State wildlife agents already have identified six packs of wolves in Washington’s Cascades, and more are expected to migrate from Canada to the state’s protected forests.

In a pro wolf article in the Seattle Times in 1992, covering an event involving wolf advocates and their hopes for wolf recovery, the story pretty much remains the same as to the existence of wolves in Washington.

Originally planned as part of a recovery program for the northern Rockies, where wolves were brought in, the effort could become unique to Washington because of the apparently burgeoning population.

For example, 100 sightings were reported in 1981, and last year there were 200, ranging as far south as Mount St. Helens, Almak said.

Note: Is it puzzling that an article written in 1992 mentions that “wolves were brought in” to recover wolves in the Northern Rockies?

Again in 1992 a gray wolf was captured and collared in Washington. What was the chatter all about concerning this wolf and others?

Pierce said the animals probably are migrating south from Canada, where wolves still are hunted.

“It appears we’re in the early stages of re-colonization of the former range in Washington,” he said. There’s evidence the animals are breeding as far south as the Glacier Peak Wilderness Area just north of Stevens Pass, Pierce added.

Indications are that wolves were naturally recovering in parts of Washington and yet what little money was available for recovery was hauled away and dumped into introduction of wolves into Yellowstone and Central Idaho. Why? Another question everyone should be asking is why at this date when Washington is working on drafting a new wolf management plan, acting as though migration of wolves from Idaho is the first time wolves ever stepped foot there, is there no mention of the wolves that have been breeding and growing there before this apparent migration?

In 2002, environmentalists lined up in droves to petition the USFWS to introduce wolves into Washington. There was no mention at this time of existing wolves in Washington.

What becomes obvious is the lack of transparency and honesty when it comes to dealing with the general public such as in Washington’s effort to draft a new wolf management plan. What’s to hide? Is pretending that this is the first time wolves have made a presence in Washington somehow going to ensure the recovery of wolves? Is there somehow a need to lie in order to achieve the goals of wolf recovery? Don’t the people of Washington and every other state in the this great Union, deserve to know the truth about the history of wolves? In Washington, isn’t it still important to tell the people that wolves recovered on their own as early as 1991 and yet all efforts to recover this species was abandoned in favor of introduction into Yellowstone? Is denying the facts in the best interest of drafting a wolf management plan?

And the biggest question of all: Has there EVER been any honesty and transparency about wolf recovery?

Tom Remington

 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/

[jasnt]

I dout any migration occurred. Other wise they would have done it 50years ago.  Use some common sense folks. We had no wolves till they where brought to us. What's next

[AspenBud]

I dout any migration occurred. Other wise they would have done it 50years ago.  Use some common sense folks. We had no wolves till they where brought to us. What's next

Common sense would dictate that if a wolf can walk to California and back from Oregon they can wander in to Washington from Idaho. What has or has not come in from Canada, I don't know. But I'm going to guess something changed up in BC as far as wolf hunting goes, at least for a time.

[jasnt]

Exactly my point. They could have done this any time they chose. Why now. Why not when game was more plentiful and less people where in eastern Washington yet as soon as they BROUGHT them to Yellowstone they started showing up all over!

[AspenBud]

Exactly my point. They could have done this any time they chose. Why now. Why not when game was more plentiful and less people where in eastern Washington yet as soon as they BROUGHT them to Yellowstone they started showing up all over!

I think the ones coming from Idaho are the product of what was released there, not any mystery release in Washington. I think they've always come across the border with Canada, but until the government turned them loose elsewhere in the country no one gave them much of a second thought. They "didn't exist" so they got shot or people didn't believe their eyes.

[wolfbait]

Exactly my point. They could have done this any time they chose. Why now. Why not when game was more plentiful and less people where in eastern Washington yet as soon as they BROUGHT them to Yellowstone they started showing up all over!

I think the ones coming from Idaho are the product of what was released there, not any mystery release in Washington. I think they've always come across the border with Canada, but until the government turned them loose elsewhere in the country no one gave them much of a second thought. They "didn't exist" so they got shot or people didn't believe their eyes.

Like you said not many mystery releases, here are a few real releases.

So my wife went home to reardan this weekend and her dad owns some land by hawk creek, just outside of Davenport and he witnessed the fish and game release 4 wolves onto his property 10 feet from his pasture where he has cows, he flipped and almost killed 6 people, the fish and game said they could release wolves on private property without getting permison, anyone out there know if they legally can do that?http://washington-hunters.com/wolf-disc … k.facebook
In May 2009 WDFW bought the rest of the Golden Doe ranch outside of Twisp WA, the first thing they did was releases wolves on it, and they were caught in the act. Their wolves killed a cow and a new calf right off the bat. A friend of mine put a trail camera on it right after it happened, we have pictures of WDFW inspecting the cow, it shows that the only damage on the cow is her hind-end is eaten. Funny thing is they failed to mention the new calf, when they ran to the papers and lied about what killed the cow, they some how forgot all about the new calf. http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pres … estigators

Talked to a good buddy of mine and he informed me that a friend of his fathers was up in the Ellensburg area and noticed WDFW vehicle and trailer and was wondering what they were doing and started taking pictures as they released a  pair of wolves. Later he contacted the WDFW and they denied everything until he told them he was going to the media and that changed there tune and they admitted they released a mating pair of wolves http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index … 788.0.html
Here's another one: Was talking to a teacher yesterday at the meeting who and brought some students to watch the proceedings.
He was telling us about one of his buddies that works for one of the counties in SW Washington. That he was out plowing the road to clear snow off. And a bunch of WDFW  employees would not let him continue up the road. He said that they had a horse trailer with kennels in the back. He said he had to threaten them with the cops before they would let him to continue to do his job. Sounds like you are right about  transplanting wolves already on Mt. St. Helens.

My Veterinarian encountered a trucker outside of Spokane Washington at a rest area, Curiosity got the best of my Vet as his dog was very upset. So he talked with the trucker and he showed him his cargo, he had 68 crates on board, Some had 2 wolves, some had one wolf, all were destined to be released in the Olympic National Forest, that was in May of this year (2011).
The truck driver was interviewed and he said the wolves came out of the Yellowstone.
http://www.northwestwolfsightings.org/P … #anchor_72
7-2012 Found out some first hand interesting info yesterday for those of us that live in Clark County WA. My husband and his buddy were out hiking in the Yacolt burn yesterday and they ran into a group of young guys and after talking a bit my husband had asked if they had seen any coyotes since that is what they were really after. The guy said yea my dad saw a "HUGE coyote his back stood about two and half three feet tall" He was talking about a wolf but didn't know at that point my hubby knows about the wolf issues. So my hubby said you mean a wolf? The guy says "Im calling them large coyotes since DFW wont admit they're here so when we shoot them we can say oh I thought they were coyotes and we didn't have them here yet" He went on to tell my husband that in the same place his friend came upon some fish and wildlife guys that had cages in the back of their truck. Just as he pulled up on them he counted about 8 wolves running into the brush. He asked what they were up to and there was a lot of Ummm's and stumbling over stories and they told him it was a research project. Then they got out of there fast. So needless to say they are only about 20 miles from my house now!


I talk to one of our Okanogan county commissioners about some of these releases a few years ago, and have heard of others since. The county commissioner told me of releases in the Methow which I hadn't heard about. And yet WDFW claim they are white as snow with no wolf releases, it is no wonder rural folks have no respect for WDFW.

[AspenBud]

Exactly my point. They could have done this any time they chose. Why now. Why not when game was more plentiful and less people where in eastern Washington yet as soon as they BROUGHT them to Yellowstone they started showing up all over!

I think the ones coming from Idaho are the product of what was released there, not any mystery release in Washington. I think they've always come across the border with Canada, but until the government turned them loose elsewhere in the country no one gave them much of a second thought. They "didn't exist" so they got shot or people didn't believe their eyes.

Like you said not many mystery releases, here are a few real releases.

So my wife went home to reardan this weekend and her dad owns some land by hawk creek, just outside of Davenport and he witnessed the fish and game release 4 wolves onto his property 10 feet from his pasture where he has cows, he flipped and almost killed 6 people, the fish and game said they could release wolves on private property without getting permison, anyone out there know if they legally can do that?http://washington-hunters.com/wolf-disc … k.facebook
In May 2009 WDFW bought the rest of the Golden Doe ranch outside of Twisp WA, the first thing they did was releases wolves on it, and they were caught in the act. Their wolves killed a cow and a new calf right off the bat. A friend of mine put a trail camera on it right after it happened, we have pictures of WDFW inspecting the cow, it shows that the only damage on the cow is her hind-end is eaten. Funny thing is they failed to mention the new calf, when they ran to the papers and lied about what killed the cow, they some how forgot all about the new calf. http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pres … estigators

Talked to a good buddy of mine and he informed me that a friend of his fathers was up in the Ellensburg area and noticed WDFW vehicle and trailer and was wondering what they were doing and started taking pictures as they released a  pair of wolves. Later he contacted the WDFW and they denied everything until he told them he was going to the media and that changed there tune and they admitted they released a mating pair of wolves http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index … 788.0.html
Here's another one: Was talking to a teacher yesterday at the meeting who and brought some students to watch the proceedings.
He was telling us about one of his buddies that works for one of the counties in SW Washington. That he was out plowing the road to clear snow off. And a bunch of WDFW  employees would not let him continue up the road. He said that they had a horse trailer with kennels in the back. He said he had to threaten them with the cops before they would let him to continue to do his job. Sounds like you are right about  transplanting wolves already on Mt. St. Helens.

My Veterinarian encountered a trucker outside of Spokane Washington at a rest area, Curiosity got the best of my Vet as his dog was very upset. So he talked with the trucker and he showed him his cargo, he had 68 crates on board, Some had 2 wolves, some had one wolf, all were destined to be released in the Olympic National Forest, that was in May of this year (2011).
The truck driver was interviewed and he said the wolves came out of the Yellowstone.
http://www.northwestwolfsightings.org/P … #anchor_72
7-2012 Found out some first hand interesting info yesterday for those of us that live in Clark County WA. My husband and his buddy were out hiking in the Yacolt burn yesterday and they ran into a group of young guys and after talking a bit my husband had asked if they had seen any coyotes since that is what they were really after. The guy said yea my dad saw a "HUGE coyote his back stood about two and half three feet tall" He was talking about a wolf but didn't know at that point my hubby knows about the wolf issues. So my hubby said you mean a wolf? The guy says "Im calling them large coyotes since DFW wont admit they're here so when we shoot them we can say oh I thought they were coyotes and we didn't have them here yet" He went on to tell my husband that in the same place his friend came upon some fish and wildlife guys that had cages in the back of their truck. Just as he pulled up on them he counted about 8 wolves running into the brush. He asked what they were up to and there was a lot of Ummm's and stumbling over stories and they told him it was a research project. Then they got out of there fast. So needless to say they are only about 20 miles from my house now!


I talk to one of our Okanogan county commissioners about some of these releases a few years ago, and have heard of others since. The county commissioner told me of releases in the Methow which I hadn't heard about. And yet WDFW claim they are white as snow with no wolf releases, it is no wonder rural folks have no respect for WDFW.

Again, who is the commissioner, who is the vet mentioned above, the teacher? There's a lot of "I talked to a person who said they saw wolves released" but no mention of names.

Here's my problem with all of this Wolfbait. Once, about two decades ago, my old man was the editor of a weekly paper and he allowed a story about black helicopters being seen in Clark County to be published. The story was a joke, a lie, but boy oh boy did the weirdos come out and want to talk to him about what he'd seen.

On another occasion people started calling in because they thought the government was doing something suspicious because men were seen in boats wearing camo and carrying firearms. They slinked off once he explained to them that there was an early goose season that year.

People lie, don't understand what they are seeing, and bend the truth. The day someone comes up with video and pictures of such releases I might pay attention, but until then...   

[headshot5]

People lie, don't understand what they are seeing, and bend the truth. The day someone comes up with video and pictures of such releases I might pay attention, but until then...

Believe it or not the WDFW is made up of people too... 

[idahohuntr]

Maybe folks should go the Draw Results thread and see just how reliable "my friends friend" sources are 

Again, if this is what folks are using to suggest wdfw plants wolves, they must really be grasping at straws!

[AspenBud]

People lie, don't understand what they are seeing, and bend the truth. The day someone comes up with video and pictures of such releases I might pay attention, but until then...

Believe it or not the WDFW is made up of people too...

That's certainly true and government agencies are not always honest, hello Hanford.

But in this instance I have my doubts about all of these stories. Out of all of these instances no one had a smart phone on them to take a picture or a video of the DFW folks involved not to mention the wolves? No one has names of people to call? It's always "a county commissioner" or "I talked with a guy" or "there was this UPS driver." You may as well be talking to a Sasquatch believer running around whooping and screaming in the woods claiming the coyote (or wolf) that replied was a "squatch."

No one ever made a secret out of releasing wolves in Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho. Why would they bother to do so in Washington and Oregon?

[AspenBud]

Where did the Lookout pack come from? 

USFWS with>>>  "southcentral British Columbia"
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt08/FINAL_2008_USFWS_Recovery_Program_Update_3-17-09.pdf

WDFW with>>>the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada
http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-clips/dna-samples-confirm-gray-wolves-are-back-in-methow-valley

Conservation Northwest with>>>>>coastal British Columbia
http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/06/25/will-federal-delisting-impact-states-wolves/

That is really a good question and brings up another more serious question, "Why are there three different answers regarding the DNA results?"

I looked at all three links and each story is claiming a different DNA result than the other. 

Sorry to dig this up again, but simply for the sake of discussion, based on this from Montana Fish and Wildlife I'd guess most any wolf showing up these days could have a mix of DNA.

"In 1995, three family groups (a total of 14 wolves) were captured near Alberta's Jasper National Park, transported to Yellowstone National Park, and placed in acclimation pens. They were held for 10 weeks prior to release. Two of the females subsequently denned and produced nine pups in Montana. Most settled in the same vicinity of their acclimation pens, demonstrating the potental advantages of a "soft" release technique.

Also in the winter of 1995, 15 wolves were reintroduced into the wilderness areas of central Idaho. These animals moved widely throughout central Idaho and behond. Many of these wolves moved north, some to the upper Bitterroot Valley. In 1996, three packs produced 11 pups.

In the winter of 1996, 17 wolves were captured near Fort St. Johns, British Columbia, Canada and were again released into acclimation pens in Yellowstone National Park through a "soft" release. Twenty wolves were released in central Idaho as a "hard" release."

http://fwp.mt.gov/fishAndWildlife/management/wolf/history.html