Elk Poacher on Rugged Justice

[chad s.]

Anyone know the young man who supposedly shot the spike elk on the coast that was featured on Rugged Justice this past weekend? I don't really care who he is, just interested to know whatever came of it.
Thanks

[elkchaser54]

If he is under the age of 18, and actually persecuted his name wouldn't be released.  I hope that if someone actually knows him they don't post his name on here.

[Curly]

The kid was 22 years old.

[BOWHUNTER45]

No excuse for that one .. I liked that show better than the 1st one .. I really like watching North Woods Law .. If you get a chance watch both of them and see how our wardens act compared to ours !

[jrebel]

No excuse for that one .. I liked that show better than the 1st one .. I really like watching North Woods Law .. If you get a chance watch both of them and see how our wardens act compared to ours !

I caught both of them while at work last week....I like Northwoods Law way better.  Our wardens come across as completed butt heads on the show.  Kind of wish I had cable so I could watch them more often. 

What did you think about the first date with a felon involving shooting in remote grant county?      Holy smokes....that warden may have saved that lady from being raped or even worse....killed.   

[bigtex]

Anyone know the young man who supposedly shot the spike elk on the coast that was featured on Rugged Justice this past weekend? I don't really care who he is, just interested to know whatever came of it.
Thanks

If the officers didn't actually hand the individual a ticket the prosecutor has two years to file charges on the guy.

[BOWHUNTER45]

No excuse for that one .. I liked that show better than the 1st one .. I really like watching North Woods Law .. If you get a chance watch both of them and see how our wardens act compared to ours !

I caught both of them while at work last week....I like Northwoods Law way better.  Our wardens come across as completed butt heads on the show.  Kind of wish I had cable so I could watch them more often. 

What did you think about the first date with a felon involving shooting in remote grant county?      Holy smokes....that warden may have saved that lady from being raped or even worse....killed.   

Yes that was crazy and only knowing the guy for a couple hours ..good job on that one 

[BOWHUNTER45]

Anyone know the young man who supposedly shot the spike elk on the coast that was featured on Rugged Justice this past weekend? I don't really care who he is, just interested to know whatever came of it.
Thanks

If the officers didn't actually hand the individual a ticket the prosecutor has two years to file charges on the guy.

That is about as stupid as it gets ...how can anyone think that's O.K ..If your guilty then you should be prosecuted with in a year not 2 ! Usually when someone is in trouble it takes a year of going to court dates or you spend months going to court to tell you that they applied for a continuance 

[Curly]

Anyone know the young man who supposedly shot the spike elk on the coast that was featured on Rugged Justice this past weekend? I don't really care who he is, just interested to know whatever came of it.
Thanks

They really had no definitive evidence.  They couldn't find the bullet; But they had the story of the guy that called it in (and maybe he was the one that shot the spike?) and they had a statement apparently from the "kid" where he said something about he might have shot it.  Oh, and they also had the 2 cases that Cenci said was suspicious because they were laying right next to each other.

The kid made a mistake of saying he might have shot it and if he gets on here and starts talking some more, that would likely be a mistake too.

[bigtex]

Anyone know the young man who supposedly shot the spike elk on the coast that was featured on Rugged Justice this past weekend? I don't really care who he is, just interested to know whatever came of it.
Thanks

If the officers didn't actually hand the individual a ticket the prosecutor has two years to file charges on the guy.

That is about as stupid as it gets ...how can anyone think that's O.K ..If your guilty then you should be prosecuted with in a year not 2 ! Usually when someone is in trouble it takes a year of going to court dates or you spend months going to court to tell you that they applied for a continuance 

It's the statute of limitations which is 1 year for a misdemeanor and 2 for gross misdemeanors.

In the "old days" an officer would hand you a ticket with a court date you had to appear on. However as the state's population increased you would show up to court with say 50 over the people and only 30 would go before the judge, those remaining 20 would have their cases dismissed. With the current system the court can now schedule people so there are no "extras."

There are still a couple of the smaller counties that let officers give people court dates, but the method for most courts and agencies is to not give the person the criminal citation, have the officer send the report to the prosecutor and then the prosecutor can file charges whenever they want.

I have had prosecutors literally wait up until the week before the 1 or 2 year mark to file charges. An example I like to use is you can be contacted for underage drinking at 20.5 and not have your first court appearance until your 22.5.

This only applies to criminal offenses, not infractions.

[idahohuntr]

Anyone know the young man who supposedly shot the spike elk on the coast that was featured on Rugged Justice this past weekend? I don't really care who he is, just interested to know whatever came of it.
Thanks

They really had no definitive evidence.  They couldn't find the bullet; But they had the story of the guy that called it in (and maybe he was the one that shot the spike?) and they had a statement apparently from the "kid" where he said something about he might have shot it.  Oh, and they also had the 2 cases that Cenci said was suspicious because they were laying right next to each other.

The kid made a mistake of saying he might have shot it and if he gets on here and starts talking some more, that would likely be a mistake too.

I don't support poaching in any way, but that was just a classic example of why you should not speak with LEO's...particularly in an uncertain situation like that.  His dad did the right thing by telling Cenci et al. they are not speaking with them anymore...unfortunately damage was probably already done.  Burden of proof is on the state.  If all game wardens were good, honest people I would be less inclined to be so emphatic in not providing any information to wardens...sadly, way too many bad apples.  A warden starts asking you where you've been hunting, did you shoot at anything today, have you seen anything...just follow the Marshawn Lynch model 

[pianoman9701]

If he is under the age of 18, and actually persecuted his name wouldn't be released.  I hope that if someone actually knows him they don't post his name on here.

I assume you meant prosecuted. Assuming he's 22, why wouldn't you want his name posted on here?

[Curly]

Did anyone understand the point Cenci was trying to make when he held up the liver LUNG and said "now that is a kill shot" ?  It was a double lung shot so yeah, of course that was a kill shot.  I would think that even a non hunter would understand that a bullet hole through both lungs and a dead elk there would equal a "kill shot". Just seemed kind of weird to me.

edit - sorry, I meant to say lung.

[jrebel]

Did anyone understand the point Cenci was trying to make when he held up the liver and said "now that is a kill shot" ?  It was a double lung shot so yeah, of course that was a kill shot.  I would think that even a non hunter would understand that a bullet hole through both lungs and a dead elk there would equal a "kill shot". Just seemed kind of weird to me.

I think he was trying to say it was not an accident.  It was a deliberate kill shot.   

[MtnMuley]

Did anyone understand the point Cenci was trying to make when he held up the liver and said "now that is a kill shot" ?  It was a double lung shot so yeah, of course that was a kill shot.  I would think that even a non hunter would understand that a bullet hole through both lungs and a dead elk there would equal a "kill shot". Just seemed kind of weird to me.

As opposed to a gut shot or some other shot which could have possibly been accidental.  A double lunger in the boiler room implies careful aim.

How many thousands of hunters every season imply a careful aim to the boiler room and fail to miss the intended target?  To Cenci, I say get real and quit being a fake......you're looking like an even more dumb%&# to a lot of us.

[plugger]

  Under normal circumstances, I would be a proud father. A son on national tv.  This however is not one of those times. The young man in the first episode, the one they were tracking in the bushes, was my little boy   He actually is a good kid, The warrents they were referring to were for unpaid tickets. Just made a bad choice that night.

[rackattack]

Did anyone understand the point Cenci was trying to make when he held up the liver and said "now that is a kill shot" ?  It was a double lung shot so yeah, of course that was a kill shot.  I would think that even a non hunter would understand that a bullet hole through both lungs and a dead elk there would equal a "kill shot". Just seemed kind of weird to me.

As opposed to a gut shot or some other shot which could have possibly been accidental.  A double lunger in the boiler room implies careful aim.

How many thousands of hunters every season imply a careful aim to the boiler room and fail to miss the intended target?  To Cenci, I say get real and quit being a fake......you're looking like an even more dumb%&# to a lot of us.

In Cenci's defense who knows how that quote was taken.  He could have been explaining anything to the camera crew and they decided to use just that quote for the show because it made for good TV.

[Wose]

[/quote]

In Cenci's defense who knows how that quote was taken.  He could have been explaining anything to the camera crew and they decided to use just that quote for the show because it made for good TV.
[/quote]

Having been interviewed for TV a dozen or so years ago, and had the interview heavily edited, I'll add a big +1 to that statement.

A few years ago I was at the Oregon Zoo at one of their new exhibits when the same reporter walked up to me. He didn't recognize me and said "would you like to be on tv about the new exhibit?"

He was a little puzzled when I said "I'd rather slam my b@lls in a car door.."

[spin05]

No excuse for that one .. I liked that show better than the 1st one .. I really like watching North Woods Law .. If you get a chance watch both of them and see how our wardens act compared to ours !

Ive watched north woods law for years. With the exception of one guy.Those guys are complete dicks, and i hope our wardens dont pattern them selves after them. The Montana Wardens show, now those guys are a great mix of being cool but upholding the law. The north woods guys spend way to much time worry about what a ATV rider is doing on there own property.......

[DIYARCHERYJUNKIE]

Most interaction I've had with the wdfw has been positive.  I can tell when the warden isn't a nice guy right away.  The type that's just looking to bust you.  But I always have all my tags and gear in order and present them as asked.  Makes the interaction as limited as possible.  Then if its a familiar face I'll bs with them for a bit.  Quite a few I have met are respectful and polite. 

[Bean Counter]

I had few interactions with WDFW officers in my WA days. All of such interactions were positive. 

[huntnnw]

i dunno what one has to do in this state to get caught poaching and a actually penalty for it ie: The incident in Ione,WA 

[Wose]

I just got a chance to stream this one since we don't get The Cable out here.

I think Cenci and the other officer came to the right conclusion: the young guy shot the spike. I also think nothing is going to come of it.

Here's some insight from a former cop: when we didn't arrest somebody or at least give them a citation at the scene, but were going to "refer it to the prosecutor" what that really meant was "we don't have Jack for probable cause." Sometimes you'd need to let something breathe for a while, while you built other evidence, but in this case, The Evidence Fairy is not coming. There's no ballistics or anything like that.

Cenci got the kid to make an admission, but not a confession.  Then his dad got him to shut his hole. That case is going nowhere.

What I REALLY wanted Cenci to ask the guy is the name of the mythical lawyer that will answer a cell call from out in the woods on a weekend.

Likewise the case of the convicted felon at the end hunting with his two boys is a giant bowl of mess. There's case law around convicted felons and family members possessing guns. What I couldn't determine was if one of the two boys was over 18, and thus could independently posses the gun and supervise is younger bro. That one also got "referred to the prosecutor."

Usually I avoid cop shows like the plague, but I thought I'd try this one. When I was working the road, I often fantasized about being a Gamey. Looks like its the same old stuff, just with less backup, but maybe prettier scenery.

[floatinghat]

Wose, where did you stream.  The AP site shows no full episodes for RJ.

[Scott68]

It is my understanding that the "spike elk" case has been charged and arraignment has been set for sometime in the next couple of weeks (I don't know a specific date yet).

As an attorney, I can tell you that I've taken plenty of calls, from plenty of locations, and at every hour of the day and night and on every day of the week.

However, I do turn off my cell phone when I'm waiting for daylight to break over my favorite hunting spot ... and I keep it off if I'm fortunate enough to get one down.  Not gonna' take any calls when I'm enjoying the post-kill celebration!

[Holtburg]

I just got a chance to stream this one since we don't get The Cable out here.

I think Cenci and the other officer came to the right conclusion: the young guy shot the spike. I also think nothing is going to come of it.

Here's some insight from a former cop: when we didn't arrest somebody or at least give them a citation at the scene, but were going to "refer it to the prosecutor" what that really meant was "we don't have Jack for probable cause." Sometimes you'd need to let something breathe for a while, while you built other evidence, but in this case, The Evidence Fairy is not coming. There's no ballistics or anything like that.

Cenci got the kid to make an admission, but not a confession.  Then his dad got him to shut his hole. That case is going nowhere.

What I REALLY wanted Cenci to ask the guy is the name of the mythical lawyer that will answer a cell call from out in the woods on a weekend.

Likewise the case of the convicted felon at the end hunting with his two boys is a giant bowl of mess. There's case law around convicted felons and family members possessing guns. What I couldn't determine was if one of the two boys was over 18, and thus could independently posses the gun and supervise is younger bro. That one also got "referred to the prosecutor."

Usually I avoid cop shows like the plague, but I thought I'd try this one. When I was working the road, I often fantasized about being a Gamey. Looks like its the same old stuff, just with less backup, but maybe prettier scenery.

I am the mythical lawyer you are so curious about.  What the gentlemen on the show reported was completely true.  I was able to speak with them immediately after the game wardens began to falsely accuse them.  Sorry to burst your bubble, the kid is innocent.  Stay tuned.  

[HntnFsh]

Thanks for chiming in Holtburg. Looking forward to the update.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I just got a chance to stream this one since we don't get The Cable out here.

I think Cenci and the other officer came to the right conclusion: the young guy shot the spike. I also think nothing is going to come of it.

Here's some insight from a former cop: when we didn't arrest somebody or at least give them a citation at the scene, but were going to "refer it to the prosecutor" what that really meant was "we don't have Jack for probable cause." Sometimes you'd need to let something breathe for a while, while you built other evidence, but in this case, The Evidence Fairy is not coming. There's no ballistics or anything like that.

Cenci got the kid to make an admission, but not a confession.  Then his dad got him to shut his hole. That case is going nowhere.

What I REALLY wanted Cenci to ask the guy is the name of the mythical lawyer that will answer a cell call from out in the woods on a weekend.

Likewise the case of the convicted felon at the end hunting with his two boys is a giant bowl of mess. There's case law around convicted felons and family members possessing guns. What I couldn't determine was if one of the two boys was over 18, and thus could independently posses the gun and supervise is younger bro. That one also got "referred to the prosecutor."

Usually I avoid cop shows like the plague, but I thought I'd try this one. When I was working the road, I often fantasized about being a Gamey. Looks like its the same old stuff, just with less backup, but maybe prettier scenery.

I am the mythical lawyer you are so curious about.  What the gentlemen on the show reported was completely true.  I was able to speak with them immediately after the game wardens began to falsely accuse them.  Sorry to burst your bubble, the kid is innocent.  Stay tuned.

Nice first post.  You should post your contact info on here, you might drum up some more clients in the future. 

[Wose]

Wose, where did you stream.  The AP site shows no full episodes for RJ.

It's a $1.99 per episode on Amazon.

[Wose]

[/quote]

I am the mythical lawyer you are so curious about.  What the gentlemen on the show reported was completely true.  I was able to speak with them immediately after the game wardens began to falsely accuse them.  Sorry to burst your bubble, the kid is innocent.  Stay tuned.
[/quote]

LOL.  Well, if you are his lawyer, and you think he's innocent, it must be my bad! 

[wa_archer]

So what i'm hearing from a lot of people on this topic is we should just not talk to LEO.  So with this young man who's father tells him to not say anything and they wont talk, what lesson does he learn?  Would you want your kids to do the same thing when you are asking them what they did wrong?  just lie to you or not tell you a thing?  How about we raise our children to be respected members of society who respect LEO, bosses, elders, etc. and take responsibility for their actions.  Instead of teaching them through our own actions its alright to hide and not take responsibilities, teaching them its alright to break the law and then not take responsibility.  Sounds like a great way to have productive members of society.  Can only imagine what other great role models the same parents are being to their children. 

Kids are like sponges well into life and will immolate what you do and how you show them to survive in society whether that be good or bad.  You would probably be surprised how much easier they would have been on the kid if he took responsibility for his actions.  Just like on Northwoods law with the kids ripping up the ranchers field. No courts just a promise to go back and do work to repay damages.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

wa_archer, unfortunately LEOs can make mistakes based on what you say, and they do. They can also make assumptions based on what you say, and they do. They can also fabricate evidence from what you say and some do. (Not all by a long shot) Innocent remarks can end up costing you. So no, other than giving them your ID and letting them do their job, I wouldn't say anything unless I was well aware of what was up. There is a reason for Miranda warnings. What you say can be used against you, whether it should be or not. If you suspect you are a suspect for any reason, you shouldn't engage in idle or other chit chat with an LEO. It's that simple.

I remember a few threads on here about LEOs who think EVERYONE is guilty of something and it's their job to figure out what. With that attitude out there, it's up to you to protect yourself.

[bigtex]

I just got a chance to stream this one since we don't get The Cable out here.

I think Cenci and the other officer came to the right conclusion: the young guy shot the spike. I also think nothing is going to come of it.

Here's some insight from a former cop: when we didn't arrest somebody or at least give them a citation at the scene, but were going to "refer it to the prosecutor" what that really meant was "we don't have Jack for probable cause." Sometimes you'd need to let something breathe for a while, while you built other evidence, but in this case, The Evidence Fairy is not coming. There's no ballistics or anything like that.

Cenci got the kid to make an admission, but not a confession.  Then his dad got him to shut his hole. That case is going nowhere.

What I REALLY wanted Cenci to ask the guy is the name of the mythical lawyer that will answer a cell call from out in the woods on a weekend.

Likewise the case of the convicted felon at the end hunting with his two boys is a giant bowl of mess. There's case law around convicted felons and family members possessing guns. What I couldn't determine was if one of the two boys was over 18, and thus could independently posses the gun and supervise is younger bro. That one also got "referred to the prosecutor."

Usually I avoid cop shows like the plague, but I thought I'd try this one. When I was working the road, I often fantasized about being a Gamey. Looks like its the same old stuff, just with less backup, but maybe prettier scenery.

I am the mythical lawyer you are so curious about.  What the gentlemen on the show reported was completely true.  I was able to speak with them immediately after the game wardens began to falsely accuse them.  Sorry to burst your bubble, the kid is innocent.  Stay tuned.

Of course the guy's lawyer is going to say he's innocent. Would be bad if his lawyer came on here and said he's guilty. 

[soccerftw123]

I like how whenever there is a spike elk issue they say something like " it is illegal to shoot a spike so the elk heard can increase" and then I look at the regs and think what the ****

[soccerftw123]

Thats in reference to east side regulations

[jason stevens]

I like how whenever there is a spike elk issue they say something like " it is illegal to shoot a spike so the elk heard can increase" and then I look at the regs and think what the ****

Exactly , it drives me nuts every episode.

[Bullkllr]

I like how whenever there is a spike elk issue they say something like " it is illegal to shoot a spike so the elk heard can increase" and then I look at the regs and think what the ****

Exactly , it drives me nuts every episode.

In the episode I'm watching right now there was another illegal spike kill. They ticketed the guy.

What was funny was they had a clip to show what a spike was- and the bull in the clip was at least a 2 point.

[Scott68]

So ... on tonight's episode they showed a guy shooting an elk decoy before shooting light.

He was cited for two gross misdemeanor offenses.

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for his conduct?

[Bean Counter]

Of course the guy's lawyer is going to say he's innocent. Would be bad if his lawyer came on here and said he's guilty. 

IIRC the ABA's lawyers code of ethics would prevent the attorney from proclaiming his clients innocence if the lawyer knows for a fact that client is guilty.

[Curly]

So ... on tonight's episode they showed a guy shooting an elk decoy before shooting light.

He was cited for two gross misdemeanor offenses.

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for his conduct?

I think forfeiting his rifle was too much.  Because his rifle was worth $3,500, he is paying way more than the next guy that may only have a $500 rifle.  Seems to me that the punishment should be similar for everyone guilty of that crime.    (Maybe they should just increase the fine by $1,000 and do away with the forfeiture).

Hard to have much sympathy though for guys that shoot animals in the dark like that.  I for one am glad they are doing these decoy sting operations.  I just wish the forfeiture laws would get revised in this state.

[bigtex]

So ... on tonight's episode they showed a guy shooting an elk decoy before shooting light.

He was cited for two gross misdemeanor offenses.

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for his conduct?

I think forfeiting his rifle was too much.  Because his rifle was worth $3,500, he is paying way more than the next guy that may only have a $500 rifle.  Seems to me that the punishment should be similar for everyone guilty of that crime.    (Maybe they should just increase the fine by $1,000 and do away with the forfeiture).

It's hard to increase the fine by $1,000 when the current fine right now is $0-5,000. Again, it's time to institute mandatory minimum penalties for offenses in WA.

[Curly]

Can you remind me why we don't have mandatory minimums?  What is the argument for not having them? 

[bigtex]

Can you remind me why we don't have mandatory minimums?  What is the argument for not having them? 

We don't have them because it's never passed the legislature. WDFW (or any agency) can't do it themselves, it takes a bill to pass the legislature. A lot of people are against it because some feel it is unfair.

[Whitpirate]

I think civil forfeiture laws are a license to steal and should be abolished.