8 different special apps pools!

[WDFW-SUX]

43,310 people that applied for a deer permit last year. What will that number be this year?

Thats likely to be the number of people that apply for antlerless stuff this year.... Not all deer permits.

[Lowedog]

Yeah, I do think that number will increase as it has every year since the point systems inception.  but even if it doesn't because of the multiple applications in the new system that applicants are now alloud to make there will be way way more competition for the same number of tags.

Ive never thought of applying for a cow tag and I can name 50 guys I know that haven't either but they all will now. Those are essentially "new" applicants in the system.  When you factor in the weighted system that means all odds are reduced unless you have 15 points this year.

50!?  C'mon Man... 

[bobcat]

unless you have 15 points this year

That's the key phrase right there. Those people have very high odds of drawing an antlerless tag if they choose to apply. So their odds of drawing an elk permit are greatly increased, while a lot of others with only a few points have greatly decreased odds. Put together, the average odds still come out the same.

I don't think I'm necessarily disagreeing with some of you on here... we're just talking about two different things.

I do realize my plans of drawing a cow elk permit this year are screwed because I only have 2 points. Before I heard of this new plan, I thought my chances of drawing my cow permit was almost 100%. Now it's down close to 0%.

[Ridgerunner]

Your crazy if you think trophy hunters won't crawl across broken glass at the chance for a cow tag

my name won't be in the hat.

[NRA4LIFE]

I agree with SUX here.  I haven't put in for a cow tag in quite some time because I didn't want to waste my points.  Bur I sure will now if I don't have to use my bull points.

[boneaddict]

You need to evaluate true odds.  Subdivide that total number of hunters into two categories or user groups.  There will be x amount of applicants last year for each of the two categories.  Now analyze what the odds or totals due with an influx of hunters into the two categories.  This is even skewed farther as you mentioned about your cow tag do to the point influence

I hear your arguement about choices.  Overall if we move from 4 choices to one we are decreasing our odds proportioantely to all of those increasing our odds by folks moving from 4 choices to one. YES.  However, I would take that bet!   There are factors that are hard to mathematically equate. I'll try to paint a picture.
There are 5 goat tags and you have 4 choices.  How many names will they have to pull out of the hat in order to fill all the tags.  How many names will they have to draw out of the hat if there is only one choice.  Then, you can argue though x amount of names are drawn, you ahve the same mathematical statistics of having your hunt filled.  Again, I'll play that game.  Many folks may not want the harder hunt, may put in for the easy card.  For those ON TOP OF THE DRAW GAME, and not those hunters that aren't paying attention, hard work and research can pay off.   You'd have alot less of these folks that have no clue what unit to put in for, but do so because they can, then come on hear and say I don't know anything about....please help......If these folks have onc chance to screw you up versus 4 chances......


I'll be in for cow along with my wife and my Dad probably. Nothing to lose.

[huntnphool]

Some of you seem to have a mental block....

 Well somebody sure does

[Wacenturion]

bone, or anyone else....................does it say somewhere that there would only be one choice per draw...i.e. antlered, antlerless, quality etc? 

[boneaddict]

NO, thats what I am begging FOR!   Still 4 choices

[Wacenturion]

Thanks.......I agree with you.  If they limited it to one choice, then the old or new proposed system would be much, much better.

[SkookumHntr]

I just got off the phone with Susan yeager on when the public comment will be. February 5-6 , public input starts 8:30 am and again at 4:30pm. March 12or 13 there will be public comment aswell. Department of Natural Resource Building in Olympia, 1st floor, room 172. She said the proposal is not a done deal and they will be listining to the public comment! She is mailing me the agenda and Ill post the exact times and dates again when Get it!

[bobcat]

Thanks for posting that information, SkookumHuntr. I will try to be there on Feb. 5th.

[Curly]

I will be there.

I will let them know that they should just keep the current system except reduce the choices down to 1 or 2......but if they want to change the system the new system should:
  1) have no more than 2 choices in each pool
  2) applicants should choose where there exisiting points will be allotted (i.e. - do not give everyone their points across the board)

[Curly]

I don't think I'm necessarily disagreeing with some of you on here... we're just talking about two different things.

Ok, maybe we agree somewhat.  Is this what you're getting at:

The odds are going to be worse across the board for drawing tags........there will be more applicants in every pool, thus worse odds for an individual of drawing a tag. But since everyone will have worse odds, then the chance of drawing a tag in a given year will still be close to what it is now?

The main problem I have though, is that the proposal is to give points to people to place in the other drawing pools.  Therefore, they are not really addressing the problem...........so why even change it.  The guys that want to draw the quality tags will not benefit and the guys that want to draw antlerlesss permits are F'd.

I see no long term benefit to the system for anyone.  Short term benefit for the next couple years will be to the guys with max points that will now apply for antlerless permits, but then after they draw they will be in the same boat as everyone else.

[whacker1]

long term benefit goes to WDFW in the form of increased revenue for the addtional $5 per special permit application

Depending on the way this works.  It looks like it would be another $20 per year for me.

$5 for elk quality
$5 for elk antlerless
$5 for deer antlerless (maybe)
$5 for deer quality

I will still be applying for the $5 deer antlered (that may not fall in the quality pool)
I will still be applying for the $5 elk anterled (that may not fall in the quality pool)

Don't forget about the guys that are Master Hunters.  They get the opportunity to spend another $5 for deer and $5 for elk.