how many un - true spikes got poached this weekend

[bobcat]

why has no one brought up the FACT that the bull to cow ratio is jacked because the Natives are filling thier trucks with big bulls year round  Instead, the WDFW is just being its ignorant F'ing self and punishing those who act responsibly and obey the laws.  Its going to take the Natives killing every last one of them for the WDFW to pull thier heads out of thier ass 

KINGWOODROW, what do you want the WDFW to do about the indians killing elk in the Colockum?

[Wenatcheejay]

why has no one brought up the FACT that the bull to cow ratio is jacked because the Natives are filling thier trucks with big bulls year round  Instead, the WDFW is just being its ignorant F'ing self and punishing those who act responsibly and obey the laws.  Its going to take the Natives killing every last one of them for the WDFW to pull thier heads out of thier ass 

KINGWOODROW, what do you want the WDFW to do about the indians killing elk in the Colockum?

(Pretending to be KING) I want the Colockum to go to permit. I hate the idea, but isn't it the best one?

[bobcat]

why has no one brought up the FACT that the bull to cow ratio is jacked because the Natives are filling thier trucks with big bulls year round  Instead, the WDFW is just being its ignorant F'ing self and punishing those who act responsibly and obey the laws.  Its going to take the Natives killing every last one of them for the WDFW to pull thier heads out of thier ass 

KINGWOODROW, what do you want the WDFW to do about the indians killing elk in the Colockum?

(Pretending to be KING) I want the Colockum to go to permit. I hate the idea, but isn't it the best one?

I'm actually for permit only elk hunting for the entire eastside, and possibly the entire state. But what would this do to stop the excessive harvest by the indians?

[luvtohnt]

Well that raises a great question that I honestly don't know the answer to......What does it matter if a branched antler bull or a true spike breed the cows.....Wouldn't the genetics be the same when it is a 1 year old spike....or when that same bull is a 9 year old monster?!?!
So, if they are truly trying to "Manage the herd" wouldn't they want the genetically inferior 2x1, 2x3, 2x2 and so on 2,3,4 year old bulls shot?!?! Why does harvesting a "true spike" help anything?!?!

I have no answer to the second half of you question referring to the older 2x1 ect.. But the true spike breeding question I do, when a true spike breeds there is a lower chance of successful breeding, there is a lower survival rate, and there is a chance the calf will be born late. It basically comes down to immature sperm. I will see if I can find the study I read and post it here. I honestly think that there needs to be something done and soon.

I'm actually for permit only elk hunting for the entire eastside, and possibly the entire state. But what would this do to stop the excessive harvest by the Indians?

If WDFW closes it due to conservation reasons the Indians can not hunt there based on their own regulations. However I am not sure how it would be enforced.

Brandon

[bobcat]

I'm actually for permit only elk hunting for the entire eastside, and possibly the entire state. But what would this do to stop the excessive harvest by the Indians?

If WDFW closes it due to conservation reasons the Indians can not hunt there based on their own regulations. However I am not sure how it would be enforced.

Brandon

Well I wasn't talking about it being closed completely, but going to permit only hunting. Even if there if only one bull permit for the entire area, it is still open to hunting and wouldn't it then be open to the indians? I know a few years back when the Umtanum unit was closed for the general deer season, the indians were hunting that unit and killing many bucks on their winter range. I'm sure there are many other examples of indians hunting units that are otherwise closed to general season hunts. Well, what about the Green River GMU? There is no general elk or deer season in that unit but the indians can hunt it.   

[Wenatcheejay]

bobcat, WFDW says there are VERY few wolves in Washington and they have low impact on Game Herd numbers. Idaho is not Washington. It can't happen here. It is impossible. To that point, they say that the Natives have Very Low Impact on Game Herd numbers. Why would WDFW lie? We already established in several other threads the WDFW and its employees are the most honest, fair minded, God fearing people, with impeccable principles, who always strive to the lawful, honest, and righteous of actions. That is why on the survey I said I think the Department does a "Poor" job of protecting wildlife in Washington, but I think they dress "Excellent."

Now, without sarcasm, we can not control what others do, we can only control what we do. We know that all bull hunting is hurting the Colockum herd right now. We know how many legally harvested bulls are taken by harvest reports and that number is to high. We know that "true spike" is an attempt to bridge the gap of revenue through tag sales vs. the drop in both sales and in hunting related revenue to the towns that generate revenue from hunters. I guess the lesson of this thread is "If you are going to hunt the Colockum for True Spike you had best have very good optics."   

[Lowedog]

If all the people who complain about the Colockum yet still hunt it would stop hunting it, it might have a positive impact on the herd.  Police yourselves.  Seems like a pretty simple concept to me.   

[woodywsu]

If all the people who complain about the Colockum yet still hunt it would stop hunting it, it might have a positive impact on the herd.  Police yourselves.  Seems like a pretty simple concept to me.   

Policing ourselves will not help the Colockum herd. It sounds nice, but tribal hunting will remain and bulls will be harvested and the herd will continue to decline. Permit only hunting is another option that might help, but will be a short-term solution.

[halflife65]

Well that raises a great question that I honestly don't know the answer to......What does it matter if a branched antler bull or a true spike breed the cows.....Wouldn't the genetics be the same when it is a 1 year old spike....or when that same bull is a 9 year old monster?!?!
So, if they are truly trying to "Manage the herd" wouldn't they want the genetically inferior 2x1, 2x3, 2x2 and so on 2,3,4 year old bulls shot?!?! Why does harvesting a "true spike" help anything?!?!

I have no answer to the second half of you question referring to the older 2x1 ect.. But the true spike breeding question I do, when a true spike breeds there is a lower chance of successful breeding, there is a lower survival rate, and there is a chance the calf will be born late. It basically comes down to immature sperm. I will see if I can find the study I read and post it here. I honestly think that there needs to be something done and soon.

I'm actually for permit only elk hunting for the entire eastside, and possibly the entire state. But what would this do to stop the excessive harvest by the Indians?

If WDFW closes it due to conservation reasons the Indians can not hunt there based on their own regulations. However I am not sure how it would be enforced.

Brandon

That's exactly right about the elk, Brandon.  Try Jack Ward Thomas - I think that he may have done the study.

[colockumelk]

Bobcat the reason that Indians were still allowed to hunt in the Umptanum is because the WDFW does not have a spine. The Boldt Decision leaves our state to regulate tribal harvest in the name of conservation. Our state however doesn't feel the need to EVER excersise this right.

King while yes tribal harvest has a negative impact on the Colockum far worse than the Yakamas and the WDFW are willing to admit, the #1 problem in the Colockum is low spike recruitment due to legal hunting. I for one like to police myself up before I point fingers at others. Hence why we need to do our part first.  But then again what would I know about the Colockum elk herd? 

[bigtex]

Bobcat the reason that Indians were still allowed to hunt in the Umptanum is because the WDFW does not have a spine. The Boldt Decision leaves our state to regulate tribal harvest in the name of conservation. Our state however doesn't feel the need to EVER excersise this right.

The Boldt decision has nothing to do with wildlife, only fish. The "Treaty with the Yakamas" is what decides where the Yakamas can hunt, which makes up a lot of eastern WA.

[WSU]

The Boldt decision is directly relevant to hunting and the allocation of animals. 

Regarding the right to regulate tribal harvest in the name of conservation: we need to do our part before we ever attempt to go down that road.  This means fix our problems in teh colockum, since we harvest the majority of bulls killed.  We have other issues as well, but our harvest is for sure bigger than theirs, and that will be the number one thing that needs to happen before we try to force them to reduce their take. 

[KINGWOODROW]

why has no one brought up the FACT that the bull to cow ratio is jacked because the Natives are filling thier trucks with big bulls year round  Instead, the WDFW is just being its ignorant F'ing self and punishing those who act responsibly and obey the laws.  Its going to take the Natives killing every last one of them for the WDFW to pull thier heads out of thier ass 

KINGWOODROW, what do you want the WDFW to do about the indians killing elk in the Colockum?

I dont expect the WDFW to do anything about it, theyre pretty good at that.  Im not trying to sound racist, because i surely am not, but I also am not ignorant to what the problem is here with this herd.  I just see the WDFW strong-arming the resposible sportsmen and sportswomen, who they had forgot pay thier salaries.  Then try to pass it off as well, its this or that or the other thing... all because the truth might hurt somebodys feelings.  Im on board with permit only statewide, for everything, for EVERYONE !!! Alot of states are this way, and it seems to work well.  

[bigtex]

The Boldt decision is directly relevant to hunting and the allocation of animals. 

Regarding the right to regulate tribal harvest in the name of conservation: we need to do our part before we ever attempt to go down that road.  This means fix our problems in teh colockum, since we harvest the majority of bulls killed.  We have other issues as well, but our harvest is for sure bigger than theirs, and that will be the number one thing that needs to happen before we try to force them to reduce their take. 

Boldt has nothing to do with wildlife. The word "Boldt" isn't even mentioned on WDFW websites about tribal hunting rights.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/tribal/

[Wenatcheejay]

You are right bigtex. (But you know that.) The fear is if pushed they would gain equal rights to the wildlife. Which if happens in Court would end it all in Washington. They can't afford half the cost if we loose half the tags. But, we know that. We also know our end is the problem with Bull recruitment. I do my part. I don't hunt em .