Is Trophy hunting detrimental to hunting.

[baldopepper]

Had a interesting conversation with a retired game warden (over 30 years in another state) which started based upon the post having to do with APR's.  He had some interesting thoughts concerning deer hunting (since the APR post was on deer, that was the emphasis of the conversation).  He is very saddened by the new emphasis on trophy hunting and thinks that in the future it will become a real problem for hunters.  Not saying I agree with him, but here are some of his thoughts:

1) It has created a snob mentality that belittles anyone who would shoot a small buck or, God forbid, an antlerless deer.  This has discouraged many young hunters who don't have the skill or a mentor to teach them skills from getting involved involved in the sport. 
2) The demand for quality (trophy) hunts has led to much property either being set aside by states for limited draw hunts or outright leased by private individuals  to increase their odds of getting a trophy grade animal.  Many traditional family hunting areas have become off limits and many have given up hunting when they lost their traditional areas.
3) Herd management has become very difficult when hunters want the herds managed for trophy animals.  With many hunters now only targeting the biggest and best animals many herds are made up of much weaker stock and are subject to higher disease and winter kill rates.
4) Enforcement in some states has become a nightmare with a checker board of ARP units, special draw units, antlerless permit units, general permit units, and plain closed units.  Checking stations have to take the hunters word that an animal was in fact killed in the proper unit and funding for actual field checks has declined during a period when it's needed most.
5) Trophy hunting has provided  anti hunters with more propaganda as they claim hunters are not hunting for meat or proper game management, all we want to do is shoot the animal to take its head and hang it on the wall.
6) Trophy hunting has driven the cost up.  States and private individuals have taken note that many hunters are willing to pay much more for the opportunity to take a trophy and have taken prices up to meet the demand.  Additionally with hunter numbers dropping yearly, states have increased license costs to offset the volume loss.
Again, I'm not saying that I agree with these points, but it is food for thought.

[Bean Counter]

1) It has created a snob mentality that belittles anyone who would shoot a small buck or, God forbid, an antlerless deer.  This has discouraged many young hunters who don't have the skill or a mentor to teach them skills from getting involved involved in the sport. 

Disagree. I have hit the "trophy hunter" phase of things and I don't have a problem shooting an antlerless animal if it works well. For instance some buddies of mine and myself are applying for Wyoming pronghorn this fall and put in for a couple of antler less tags in addition to the buck tags. Would I have made the trip just for antler less tags? Not likely but this happens to work out.

2) The demand for quality (trophy) hunts has led to much property either being set aside by states for limited draw hunts or outright leased by private individuals  to increase their odds of getting a trophy grade animal.  Many traditional family hunting areas have become off limits and many have given up hunting when they lost their traditional areas.

"traditional areas" that a family has long hunted on public land remain just that--public. As to hunting clubs buying sweetheart deals with large landowners such as Weyerhauser, I agree that this is a problem and should be regulated. As far as mega-guide services go, they seem to be a self limiting problem with the reputations they create for themselves: such as Doyle Moss' crew of 30 guides for one hunter or the reputation of waking their client up in camp when the animal is pinned down and practically has a target painted on it.

3) Herd management has become very difficult when hunters want the herds managed for trophy animals.  With many hunters now only targeting the biggest and best animals many herds are made up of much weaker stock and are subject to higher disease and winter kill rates.

I'm not a biologist but IDK if I buy this. Regardless, even when I was new or taking one of my kids out for their first hunt, I'd rather go in a unit with a 30% chance of harvesting a mature buck than a 50% chance of  harvesting a spike or small Forky.

4) Enforcement in some states has become a nightmare with a checker board of ARP units, special draw units, antlerless permit units, general permit units, and plain closed units.  Checking stations have to take the hunters word that an animal was in fact killed in the proper unit and funding for actual field checks has declined during a period when it's needed most.

What about a hunter, trophy or otherwise, who simply circumvents the check station to begin with? Sounds like a lazy warden.

5) Trophy hunting has provided  anti hunters with more propaganda as they claim hunters are not hunting for meat or proper game management, all we want to do is shoot the animal to take its head and hang it on the wall.

Unless you're talking about Indians, I don't see hunters shooting animals, sawing off antlers, and leaving the meat to waste. We would do far better to turn the light on these "subsistence Indian hunters" as far as turning the public against them and hopefully even taking away their B.S. special privileges than scapegoating a middle class, white hunter who cares more about inches of bone than meat.

6) Trophy hunting has driven the cost up.  States and private individuals have taken note that many hunters are willing to pay much more for the opportunity to take a trophy and have taken prices up to meet the demand.  Additionally with hunter numbers dropping yearly, states have increased license costs to offset the volume loss.

This means more money for management. Is that a bad thing?  Ridiculous fees are usually inflicted on the non residents who have the money and means to travel to another state for a hunt. Hunters like me spend hundreds if not thousands on tags alone across the west and this is money that simply wouldn't be there for mediocre quality hunts. If I weren't able to afford such excursions then I likely would hunt in state, as in state tags are usually the cheapest line item in an annual hunting budget.

[vandeman17]

just out of curiousity, was he a Colorado gamie?

[baldopepper]

Actually he was in Colorado for a few years, but was In Utah for the vast majority.  (one of the old school that actually spent the vast majority of his time in the field and put education and help if front of issuing citations)

[vandeman17]

Actually he was in Colorado for a few years, but was In Utah for the vast majority.  (one of the old school that actually spent the vast majority of his time in the field and put education and help if front of issuing citations)

Reason I asked is that Colorado, at least for elk, manages for numbers more then trophies. Not sure if they are the same with deer but I believe they do.

[singleshot12]

Is Trophy hunting detrimental? All I know is if I see a monarch breeder 5x5 with seven does and also see a young satellite 3pt hanging around near by gut instinct is to harvest the 3 pt. Much better meat and I don't really care about bragging rights anymore I feel much better knowing that the big buck is breeding the doe's,unless some other *censored* shoots him the next day

[BULLBLASTER]

Is Trophy hunting detrimental? All I know is if I see a monarch breeder 5x5 with seven does and also see a young satellite 3pt hanging around near by gut instinct is to harvest the 3 pt. Much better meat and I don't really care about bragging rights anymore I feel much better knowing that the big buck is breeding the doe's,unless some other *censored* shoots him the next day

so because you let the bigger one go and someone else shoots him as a legal animal you call him names?
I like to go after the biggest animal I can but I will also shoot a small one or a cow/doe if I feel like it and its legal.
I wont Judy anyone for trophy hunt only and I also won't judge anyone for shooting any legal animal. As long as they are out there enjoying hunting they are good in my book.

[singleshot12]

I don't know? I just wish the bigger the better mentality would change. You shouldn't be looked upon by others for being a bigger man for killing a breeder. Should be all about the meat not the horns

[BULLBLASTER]

I don't know? I just wish the bigger the better mentality would change. You shouldn't be looked upon by others for being a bigger man for killing a breeder. Should be all about the meat not the horns

so I shouldn't be looking for the challenge in outsmarting and killing a mature deer in his home area? My seasons would be very short if I only wanted to get meat... the meat is a bonus but is far from the only reason I do what I do.

[vandeman17]

I don't know? I just wish the bigger the better mentality would change. You shouldn't be looked upon by others for being a bigger man for killing a breeder. Should be all about the meat not the horns

I understand your logic but remember that the 3 point you shoot might be a young buck with way better genetics then the one you passed on but it just hasn't matured yet. What if that big buck had already bred most the does and many others too? There are so many variables out there that we never know as a hunter so I think going after a good mature deer is neither good nor bad 

[singleshot12]

I'm not telling anyone what to do. Me personally would choose the meat. If I was after horns I would cull out an old buck past his breeding prime. I've pasted on big bucks in breeding prime with their harem of doe's,just couldn't pull the trigger.

[pianoman9701]

I don't agree. But, the conservation benefits that hunting and hunters provide must be emphasized in an educated and approachable manner. Trophy hunters, especially rich ones, mean the difference between extinction and abundance in many documented cases. We have to find ways to get that message out to people unfamiliar with our sport.

Last week, one of my customers posted a picture of a bunch of guys standing over a Southern White Rhino, draped with a US flag. I think the display was tacky, but OK. Anyway, PETA had posted the picture, of course, with some verbiage about "fat white disgusting Americans", blah, blah, blah. Now this customer of mine is a hunter, but considers himself a meat hunter, even though he shot a huge bull in WY last year and posted it all up on his FB page. He was livid about the fat White American hunters and all of his other poster friends were, as well. I did some research. It turns out that since 1968, the revenue from fat white American (and Europeans, too) hunters had not only supported the localities with hunting dollars and stimulation, but had enabled the southern white rhino to increase in population from 1500 to 11,400 animals by 2006. Without the dollars that these trophy hunters spend on hunting these animals, their recovery would never have been possible and their extinction almost certain.

At the risk of his business, I posted an article in his post and turned the entire crowd around. Although most still thought the display was disgusting, they ALL recognized that without those trophy hunters, the southern white rhino would be available to see only in museums by now. This is a perfect example of hunting is conservation. If we educate in a manner which is non-confrontational and respectful, we can show most reasonable people that regardless of whether it's trophy hunting or meat hunting, hunting helps keep wildlife thriving and abundant.

[Bean Counter]

...He was livid about the fat White American hunters and all of his other poster friends were, as well. I did some research. It turns out that since 1968, the revenue from fat white American (and Europeans, too) hunters had not only supported the localities with hunting dollars and stimulation, but had enabled the southern white rhino to increase in population from 1500 to 11,400 animals by 2006. Without the dollars that these trophy hunters spend on hunting these animals, their recovery would never have been possible and their extinction almost certain...

This is pretty much always the case. Regulate it with even half  brain and give the public and local economy a stake in their continued survival, and they will thrive.

[finnman]

I am not a trophy hunter. But you won't hear me bash on someone for doing it.
I am against shooting an animal just for fun or just to put a rack over the fireplace and brag, this is not good for the face of hunting. You kill it you eat it or give to someone that will.
I do agree with the money aspect of trophy hunting, I agree the money in principal is important to wildlife management.
I hate what the trophy hunter mentality has done to many of our younger hunters. You can read their posts on this web site and they sound utterly ridiculous. No conscience, no appreciation, no heart. Its pretty sickening in fact to listen to ones brag about their conquests and then rail on other hunters for tagging immature 2 or 3 points or does.
I can't say I have ever met a meat hunter that was a true jerk. But trophy hunters....well its a different story.

[singleshot12]

  well stated...but in a way you did bash the tophy hunter

[DIYARCHERYJUNKIE]

I was told about trophy hunting by a trophy hunter.  All he said was "it's a choice".  He has more trophy a than anyone I will probably ever meet.  He holds out for big deer every year.  He shoots the first three point or better bull he can find.  But he finds one every year.  But he seems modest.  Told me he was proud last year when I killed a two point mule deer in Idaho.  He even said that's a nice buck. Then I left and his wife shot a monster five point...   

[jackelope]

I'm not telling anyone what to do. Me personally would choose the meat. If I was after horns I would cull out an old buck past his breeding prime. I've pasted on big bucks in breeding prime with their harem of doe's,just couldn't pull the trigger.

Strange logic. I appreciate your point of view but I don't understand it. Genetics are genetics, whether the deer is 2 years old or 6 years old. Genetics don't improve over time. You're basically just out to shoot young, small bucks? That'd officially be a 1st for me.
 

[jackelope]

I am not a trophy hunter. But you won't hear me bash on someone for doing it.
I am against shooting an animal just for fun or just to put a rack over the fireplace and brag, this is not good for the face of hunting. You kill it you eat it or give to someone that will.
I do agree with the money aspect of trophy hunting, I agree the money in principal is important to wildlife management.
I hate what the trophy hunter mentality has done to many of our younger hunters. You can read their posts on this web site and they sound utterly ridiculous. No conscience, no appreciation, no heart. Its pretty sickening in fact to listen to ones brag about their conquests and then rail on other hunters for tagging immature 2 or 3 points or does.
I can't say I have ever met a meat hunter that was a true jerk. But trophy hunters....well its a different story.

Well said.

[jackelope]

I have Ryan Hatfield's quote as my sig line for a reason.

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

[buckfvr]

I'm not telling anyone what to do. Me personally would choose the meat. If I was after horns I would cull out an old buck past his breeding prime. I've pasted on big bucks in breeding prime with their harem of doe's,just couldn't pull the trigger.

Strange logic. I appreciate your point of view but I don't understand it. Genetics are genetics, whether the deer is 2 years old or 6 years old. Genetics don't improve over time. You're basically just out to shoot young, small bucks? That'd officially be a 1st for me.
 

Old bucks past prime and no longer breeding are usually on the down cycle for horns......The act of hunting is what I enjoy, to end it early is to take away enjoyment.  That being said, it is common for everyone I know to always be on the look out for mature and or unique bucks......that way, we hunt longer, and either end up with a meat buck, or many times an unfilled tag.  What others do is of no consequence to me and shouldnt be to anyone else either.............In leaving others alone, you avoid being judgmental.     

[singleshot12]

I'm not telling anyone what to do. Me personally would choose the meat. If I was after horns I would cull out an old buck past his breeding prime. I've pasted on big bucks in breeding prime with their harem of doe's,just couldn't pull the trigger.

Strange logic. I appreciate your point of view but I don't understand it. Genetics are genetics, whether the deer is 2 years old or 6 years old. Genetics don't improve over time. You're basically just out to shoot young, small bucks? That'd officially be a 1st for me.
 

Logic is the meat is better on the table than the older bucks,the meat should be the trophy not the horns. And from what I've seen big mature bucks do most of the breeding. The doe's actually seek out choose the biggest breeder bucks during rut.
Sure genetics are genetics but young bucks don't breed much.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Had a interesting conversation with a retired game warden (over 30 years in another state) which started based upon the post having to do with APR's.  He had some interesting thoughts concerning deer hunting (since the APR post was on deer, that was the emphasis of the conversation).  He is very saddened by the new emphasis on trophy hunting and thinks that in the future it will become a real problem for hunters.  Not saying I agree with him, but here are some of his thoughts:

1) It has created a snob mentality that belittles anyone who would shoot a small buck or, God forbid, an antlerless deer.  This has discouraged many young hunters who don't have the skill or a mentor to teach them skills from getting involved involved in the sport. 

Sure that mentality exist but that sort of elitist mentality isn't exclusive to "trophy" hunters.. it exist amongst bowhunters vs rifle, ML vs rifle, trad vs compound, baiters vs non-baiters, spot and stalk vs stand hunters... sometimes the "attitude" doesn't even come from the side you would expect... for instance a lot of time the problem isn't the "trophy" hunter but it may be the insecurities of a person who hasn't killed a mature animal. I think that is actually the case more often than not... I say this because all "trophy" hunters probably started out killing younger animals... for this reason I don't see most mature individuals actually looking down upon someone for killing a smaller animal.

2) The demand for quality (trophy) hunts has led to much property either being set aside by states for limited draw hunts or outright leased by private individuals  to increase their odds of getting a trophy grade animal.  Many traditional family hunting areas have become off limits and many have given up hunting when they lost their traditional areas.

I'm not a fan of limited trophy hunts on public land... but I see no problem with individual private landowners leasing their property..... I can't say the same for large corporations that receive generous corporate welfare from the american taxpayer... in those cases I think there should be fairly open and/or low cost access to the large tracts of lands.

3) Herd management has become very difficult when hunters want the herds managed for trophy animals.  With many hunters now only targeting the biggest and best animals many herds are made up of much weaker stock and are subject to higher disease and winter kill rates.

This guys logic on this one is like an oxymoron... think about it... if a "trophy hunter" lets a superior specimen pass year after year until he reaches maturity then it will have a lot more opportunity to breed and pass on those genes.... this is good..... if a hunter decides to shoot that deer the first year then he may not get to pass on his genes (despite the fact that he could have been a world record had he lived to maturity)

4) Enforcement in some states has become a nightmare with a checker board of ARP units, special draw units, antlerless permit units, general permit units, and plain closed units.  Checking stations have to take the hunters word that an animal was in fact killed in the proper unit and funding for actual field checks has declined during a period when it's needed most.
I agree... the rules should be fairly simple...that being said.. I don't see a problem with them "taking" their word for it... most hunters are honest people.

5) Trophy hunting has provided  anti hunters with more propaganda as they claim hunters are not hunting for meat or proper game management, all we want to do is shoot the animal to take its head and hang it on the wall.

It only provides propaganda because there are some who don't support it within our own ranks... The fact is....trophy hunting is great for wildlife conservation and healthy herds.... I also believe that hanging the animal on the wall and cherishing it for a lifetime is a huge bonus (and sign of respect) in addition to putting more meat in the freezer (because their bodies are usually larger too)... If anything "trophy hunting" (assuming meat is utilized) should be considered a highly respected form of hunting.

6) Trophy hunting has driven the cost up.  States and private individuals have taken note that many hunters are willing to pay much more for the opportunity to take a trophy and have taken prices up to meet the demand.  Additionally with hunter numbers dropping yearly, states have increased license costs to offset the volume loss.
Again, I'm not saying that I agree with these points, but it is food for thought.

More money going towards conservation and wildlife management is good.... I don't know that we need to build our ranks drastically as much as we need to maintain... the most important thing is that we need to ensure the non-hunting public continues to support hunting. I don't have all the facts but I don't think "trophy hunting" is the primary thing leading to hunter decline... I think it's the fact that our culture is changing.. an ever increasing percentage of our population (particularly the younger crowd) is moving to urban areas to find employment. This leads to less people exposed to hunting and the great outdoors.

[arrowflinger]

I have Ryan Hatfield's quote as my sig line for a reason.

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

Perfect...hunting is about so much more!!

[REHJWA]

Wow! Who are we to judge another man's trophy?
I try to be a better hunter everytime I go out. The mote difficult the hunt, the better the shot/cleaner the kill the bigger MY trophy. My biggest trophys have been shot by first time hunters and kids. It is sharing and passing along the passion for the hunt.

The animals on my walls are about the memories.

Guided hunts for me have always been about learning, good guides spend as much time explaining why they are doing something as they do explaining where and how we hunt. But a guided hunt will never produce the trophy my wife and kids first deer are.

Does anyone believe there first deer means less to them because it wasn't the biggest one in someone's record book.

IMO:
 It is not the trophy hunter that is hurting us it is the commercialisation of the hunt that is encroaching into our lives.

Game management must always be in the best intrest of the resource.....or there will not be anything to manage.

It is up to us to make the future of hunting .

[bearpaw]

There are some who only meat hunt, some who only trophy hunt, and some like myself who do both. In the end, I think a cross section of game is harvested and it's hunter dollars that support the North American wildlife management model which by the way has been very successful.

Before you go thinking someone else's hunting reasons or methods should be stopped, just remember this:

"Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups and quit losing opportunity."

[rasbo]

I am targeting a mule deer buck right now that will never be a trophy deer in many minds,but will be in mine.He is feeding well and stared me down for quit some time last year but I couldn't put that 3rd point on him.This year he might have that 3rd point and if I get him it will be a trophy to me and very good eats,apples wheat and grass yummers...I'm a fan of take what ever you like long as its legal and have fun doing so..when I post a pic I will be as proud of him as some big mulies I have taken before, which could be trophy deer..Money is detrimental to hunting,long as its coming in take what you will..Attitudes have changed and its really shows on this site just how much with the constant bashing of size and so on..I swear I would love to slap a few of these  jerks that bark at someone for taking a smaller animal or keeping a first big fish,funny thing when I see these pics I'm as happy as they are when I read the excitement in their posts

[Elliott]

I'm a young hunter, meaning that I have only been out hunting for deer for two seasons. I have never killed a buck, or a doe, so my opinion might not pull much weight here. I love being out in the woods, or sage or field. I love getting up early being colder than crap and finding deer in my binoculars that are way out of range and watch them feed towards me, even if they are all does its exciting to trick em, or sneak up on them. Even seeing a spike white tail my heart gets going about 180 bpm and my stomach is doing backflips, my first buck is getting mounted one way or another, and I'm going to eat or share every last bit of him like it was kobe beef! I cant wait for my first deer! I hope this year to get one, if not, then I will have fun camping and being out in the woods like I have the past two years.

[PA BEN]

To each their own. But I have seen first hand when big money locks up land it takes away hunting for the ave. joe out there who doesn't have the money. I live in 121 and sure would be pissed off if wdfw turned it into a permit only unit. When Washington merged the fish w/wildlife Dept.'s and became WDFW that big money went to the fish side of the Dept. ie: salmon and steelhead.   

[bearpaw]

I'm a young hunter, meaning that I have only been out hunting for deer for two seasons. I have never killed a buck, or a doe, so my opinion might not pull much weight here. I love being out in the woods, or sage or field. I love getting up early being colder than crap and finding deer in my binoculars that are way out of range and watch them feed towards me, even if they are all does its exciting to trick em, or sneak up on them. Even seeing a spike white tail my heart gets going about 180 bpm and my stomach is doing backflips, my first buck is getting mounted one way or another, and I'm going to eat or share every last bit of him like it was kobe beef! I cant wait for my first deer! I hope this year to get one, if not, then I will have fun camping and being out in the woods like I have the past two years.

I think your opinion has just as much weight, we all should consider the opinion of newcomers to the sport equally important.

To each their own. But I have seen first hand when big money locks up land it takes away hunting for the ave. joe out there who doesn't have the money. I live in 121 and sure would be pissed off if wdfw turned it into a permit only unit. When Washington merged the fish w/wildlife Dept.'s and became WDFW that big money went to the fish side of the Dept. ie: salmon and steelhead.   

Did you realize that your license dollars are also being used to buy free access onto private property for hunters?

[sakoshooter]

I agree and disagree with your points/his views.
Our WDFW has created the special hunts with limited draw. As stated in a previous thread, some of the antler restrictions and limited hunts were supposed to revert back after the herd stabiized but as you know, that never happened. The WDFW just got greedier and created more special hunts, multi season hunts, quality hunts, buck hunts, bull hunts, ewe hunts, ram hunts, antlerless hunts, cow hunts, any buck hunts, any whitetail hunts etc, etc. All for the love of money. 
Many sportsmen are always going to strive for a trophy(in their eyes)and pulling the trigger will always be up to them but the WDFW has created this monster that we're all living with now. If you really dislike any of it, write the WDFW and express your feelilngs to them.
They've taken what used to be a general season family/friend affair and broken it up into a million different entities separating all of us either by weapon choice, east or west side or by special app points.

[runamuk]

I just wanna kill something, after 5 years just something ok something legal...but there is this buck and he is a jerk so if i kill him he will be a bigger trophy than any trophy buck mostly because he is a big ol jerk 

I only think trophy hunting where meat is wasted is reprehensible otherwise knock yourself out kill the biggest and baddest and donate the meat to Charity or give it to your neighbors  just dont be wasteful in your quest for the biggest thingie.

[bearpaw]

I agree and disagree with your points/his views.
Our WDFW has created the special hunts with limited draw. As stated in a previous thread, some of the antler restrictions and limited hunts were supposed to revert back after the herd stabiized but as you know, that never happened. The WDFW just got greedier and created more special hunts, multi season hunts, quality hunts, buck hunts, bull hunts, ewe hunts, ram hunts, antlerless hunts, cow hunts, any buck hunts, any whitetail hunts etc, etc. All for the love of money. 
Many sportsmen are always going to strive for a trophy(in their eyes)and pulling the trigger will always be up to them but the WDFW has created this monster that we're all living with now. If you really dislike any of it, write the WDFW and express your feelilngs to them.
They've taken what used to be a general season family/friend affair and broken it up into a million different entities separating all of us either by weapon choice, east or west side or by special app points.

It certainly seems like they prioritize revenue! I looked at numerous options for applying for moose. However, if you realize that this state has very little non-resident licenses sales and that non-resident license sales account for a good portion of revenue in other states, then you can rationalize why it costs residents more here than in other states that are getting $800 to $1000 from each non-res hunter.

[PA BEN]

Did you realize that your license dollars are also being used to buy free access onto private property for hunters?

Yes I do. I've seen my license money go to a land owner here in 121, the game Dept. posted it, patrolled it and gave the land owner permission slips to give out for people to hunt. I also have seen that same land owner give the slips only to their friends and buddies.

[DIYARCHERYJUNKIE]

If I bought an access pass or two I would be over $1000.   I must have selected non res when I bought my tags...

[wafisherman]

I'm not a fan of trophies and the points system.  "what did it score?". I don't really care.  Like the guys who focus so much on size of fish.  But as long as you aren't wasting game ir something, it doesn't bother me.  Just not my thing.  I'm more interested in the experience.  The story.  And the "how did it taste?" type questions.  Especially if the answer is "Great, here try some!". 

[idahohuntr]

Did you realize that your license dollars are also being used to buy free access onto private property for hunters?

Yes I do. I've seen my license money go to a land owner here in 121, the game Dept. posted it, patrolled it and gave the land owner permission slips to give out for people to hunt. I also have seen that same land owner give the slips only to their friends and buddies.

The access program they have is better than nothing...but I have been nothing but unimpressed with how they manage that program.  I wish somebody in charge would kick every one of the regions in the @$$ and tell them private land access programs are critical to the department and they had better get in gear.  Its a joke the way they run those programs...every other state has a much better system in my opinion.  Its difficult to tell what land is enrolled, the program is abused as you described it, and multiple times I've had staff not really give good information or descriptions of land in the program...everything should be on their website! 

[huntnphool]

Had a interesting conversation with a retired game warden (over 30 years in another state) which started based upon the post having to do with APR's.  He had some interesting thoughts concerning deer hunting (since the APR post was on deer, that was the emphasis of the conversation).  He is very saddened by the new emphasis on trophy hunting and thinks that in the future it will become a real problem for hunters.  Not saying I agree with him, but here are some of his thoughts:

1) It has created a snob mentality that belittles anyone who would shoot a small buck or, God forbid, an antlerless deer.  This has discouraged many young hunters who don't have the skill or a mentor to teach them skills from getting involved involved in the sport. 
2) The demand for quality (trophy) hunts has led to much property either being set aside by states for limited draw hunts or outright leased by private individuals  to increase their odds of getting a trophy grade animal.  Many traditional family hunting areas have become off limits and many have given up hunting when they lost their traditional areas.
3) Herd management has become very difficult when hunters want the herds managed for trophy animals.  With many hunters now only targeting the biggest and best animals many herds are made up of much weaker stock and are subject to higher disease and winter kill rates.
4) Enforcement in some states has become a nightmare with a checker board of ARP units, special draw units, antlerless permit units, general permit units, and plain closed units.  Checking stations have to take the hunters word that an animal was in fact killed in the proper unit and funding for actual field checks has declined during a period when it's needed most.
5) Trophy hunting has provided  anti hunters with more propaganda as they claim hunters are not hunting for meat or proper game management, all we want to do is shoot the animal to take its head and hang it on the wall.
6) Trophy hunting has driven the cost up.  States and private individuals have taken note that many hunters are willing to pay much more for the opportunity to take a trophy and have taken prices up to meet the demand.  Additionally with hunter numbers dropping yearly, states have increased license costs to offset the volume loss.
Again, I'm not saying that I agree with these points, but it is food for thought.

 He clearly has no issue with how WDFW run things then!

[darren]

Yes I do. I've seen my license money go to a land owner here in 121, the game Dept. posted it, patrolled it and gave the land owner permission slips to give out for people to hunt. I also have seen that same land owner give the slips only to their friends and buddies.

Sweet deal if you can get it, public dollars help you fund your very own private hunting grounds. Where do I sign up for that?

[bearpaw]

Did you realize that your license dollars are also being used to buy free access onto private property for hunters?

Yes I do. I've seen my license money go to a land owner here in 121, the game Dept. posted it, patrolled it and gave the land owner permission slips to give out for people to hunt. I also have seen that same land owner give the slips only to their friends and buddies.

I'm sure you must know the WDFW employee who signs up these landowners, lives near your hometown. (if you don't pm me and I will give you his name, I'm sure you will know who he is), call him and tell him what's going on with the place you described. Tell him you would like to see improvements in that regard.

[buckfvr]

Same exact thing goes on near me.......and they know it and allow it............and even hunt it themselves.  Plus it blocks DNR land.  Part of the good ol boy program they dont advertise..............

[bearpaw]

Access programs is something we have discussed in the Recreational Task Force. I will bring up this issue. 

[buckhorn2]

I like to hunt so I guess I am selective in what I decide to shoot. I don't consider my self a trophy hunter but if I go to Montana I won't shoot the first deer I see because I just like to be there and see the animals it has to offer and if I shoot it's over . In Washington there is not the population of deer on the west side so I am not as selective in what I harvest but I won't shoot does or spikes.  That's just me and if a new hunter wants to fill his tag that's great with me and his deer is just as much a trophy so the wording trophy hunter must just be in what a hunter feels is a trophy to him and like Rasbo said a deer smart enough to give you the slip a time or two is one I want to hunt.